What the hell did you guys do to this class? Did you buckle down to all the whine bags wanting it nerfed? It is far beyond nerfed, it basically does no damage and you better hope it don't rain because every 3rd shot you get 1 point for a hit. And if you hit someone in plate it either glances them or they just stand there and laugh, really? I mean, wtf did you guys do to this MOD? Which smart game balancer decided all of these HORRIBLE balances. For fuck sake make me a balancer, I got two handfuls of BUFFS for this garbage MOD to make the game more like it used to be... and fun.
Tydeus
I it needs a serious buff.
In all honesty I already knew it was that garbage balancer. But no seriously, just testing out HA, it needs a serious buff. Any plate which is half the server you can do nothing. I know from experience while using plate and getting shot by HA also.
Yeah, I've been playing horse archer as Aara pretty much exclusively since recent patch increasing damage cap to 40. Dupre will slowly buff it as he doesnt want to over do it.
At least it's being worked on... and before the most recent changes the class's maximum damage was 15... so definitely improved some.
If shooting a plated guy in the head 5 times and hes still running around is improved, that is fucked.
Regular Foot Archers should be as gimped damage wise to HAs if you go by the same formulate. I'll shoot an archer on HA for maybe a bar of damage. He shoots me back and takes 90% to 100% of my health (This is also either stationary or at full speed on my horse)
I like how everyone seems in favour for buffs here, while in hate mores thread everyone was hating hardcore :mrgreen: Nobody likes hatemore, but hes a nice guy on ts i swears.
Honestly, ranged cav destroys servers and ruins fun for everyone else. Let it stay in the dumpster where it belongs.
And if you're wearing plate and the enemy is a horse archer you also cant do anything. So the classes have been balanced to be equally effective vs each other.
No class should be nerfed that hard, but HA is near-impossible to balance correctly since it takes on zero risk when fighting infantry players. Even foot archers need to constantly watch their backs and drop their bow if being seriously pursued. Generally speaking you want to balance high-risk with high-reward, and since HA is the lowest-risk class to play it sees terrible reward.
Honestly, ranged cav destroys servers and ruins fun for everyone else. Let it stay in the dumpster where it belongs.
The only thing I really wonder about is why they nerfed the damage. They should have nerfed the aim, like FUUUUUUUUUUCKING hard and kept the damage!
Tydeus
Make an annoying and hard to counter class not require skill, I.E. all the noobs would play it and do good damage while you're defenseless. If anything could kill this mod completely, that would be it.
So, you think they should function like a foot archer, but on a horse?well listening to you.... you want em to become a melee on a horse... so Yeah i want em to be more a archer on a horse.
Good raw damage, but good luck trying to hit your target because of the very low accuracy as it was proposed.
I am talking about a whole team that cant reach mounted ranged.
The idea of counter is that one class is better than an other in a 1v1 situation. But with some skill or the help of a mate you can still overcome the enemy.
For mounted ranged there is no skill for an infanteryman that would help him to kill the rider. even with the help of 5 more infanteryman he can't do shit.
you have to have an other cav or ranged to kill that HX/HA.
this is the point that is so annoying. no mather how many or how good you are. if the right equipment is not available there is nothing you can do.
this is unique. every other class can be killed by any other class. some harder, some easier but it is possible.
not so for HX/HA. SO therefore kill them with fire rape their mothers and enslave their sisters untill they stop their evil existance.
what i dont understand is why everyone seem to think all classes need to be balanced against every other class. melee isnt supposed to be able to go one on one with a HA/HX.
And we are supposed to be powerfull on a horse.... the drawback is when you loose that horse. since alot of points are put into the skills and stats to ride that horse the power shifts when we loose that horse.
i dont see when ha/hx was 0 risk. And bad players never did good on a HA/HX they rarely ever got the top half of the scoreboard.
I think there is alot of "i think" or "I heard" facts floating around HA. Dont think their nerfs where based on many hard facts. Some of the patch notes almost felt like someone had a personal agenda against the class.
You got it all wrong, I can do something when fighting HA, like stand on the damn flag and he can't kill me... Please don't make my puke my mouth when you talk about archers or even xbowers being high risk even somewhat. They are the biggest pussies out of all tbh and should always easily counter HA unless the dumb xbow or archers gets caught out in an open field with their pants down, and even then generally speaking the HA will be outnumbered and the shitties with long bows and arbs will 1 or 2 shot the rider or his horse. There really is no argument to anyone that says HA don't need a buff, because in every way it does... Mod used to be great until all the cry babies came out wanting everything nerfed and Tydues listened to them. Dude was biased as shit and not well versed enough at every build to be judging off of his own skill. There are really only a select few that are...
Oh yeah and lets balance it off of this guys perception.. nice input.
Noone is balancing off my perception, bud. But I am expressing the popular opinion. I see no pro horse archer my old friends here offering any kind of counter argument to the fact that it ruins fun for the rest of the server. Because they can't, because it does. Everyone here has seen servers emptied out at prime time because horse archers were having their fun.
Wow really, you speak for the whole server and the whole community do you. I'll bet my half my penis size that killing Rohypnol gave everyone that did it 10 times the enjoyment than som random 2h hero, so therefor he ADDs to the enjoyment of the game.
Nice to meet you. now fuck off. you add nothing to this thread.
I'm not entirely sure if everyone has half a brain cell to spare but I don't think it requires much more than that to realize that when something so clearly OP and so immune to all forms of attacks is present one should stop and think... wait... that is to much to ask of the people here. So I'll just tell you some basic facts.
Did you know at least 3/3rds of the time you will have friendly range on your team?
Did you know that said friendly range is highly capable of taking down this immune horse range demon?
Did you know that if you.. yes you... the friendly infantry used half a brain cell you would find your friendly range player near you and protect said friendly range player (s)... so that it(they) can protect you from the horsemen of the apocalypse.
As a range horse cavalry demon myself I can tell you from my personal experience that enemy range players are hell to deal with... especially smart ones... Ik smart.. and cRPG don't normally go hand in hand this is okay... normally if you just spew bullshit on the forums 99% of the time your special needs will be accommodated.
Ik when I'm on my main and a lone Horse demon pops in the server I honestly don't even really perceive it as even a remote threat... even if it shoots me I'd rather not waste a bolt on it as their are much greater threats to my survival than this horse demon that is immune to all forms of attack and " will successfully wipe out the entire server"
I've honestly never witnessed a lone horse archer clear out a server, I have on the other hand witnessed teamwork clear out servers. So I think perhaps you have witnessed a group of horse archers using teamwork to maybe end a late night server experience a few times which would cause you to have the false assumption that Horse archery = dead servers. Using solid teamwork in any late night server experience would probably kill it.
You're constructing an argument I didn't make. Noone is saying that horse ranged, as they are right now, are over powered. They're weak, and that's a good thing.
And if you're wearing plate and the enemy is a horse archer you also cant do anything. So the classes have been balanced to be equally effective vs each other.
So let me get this clear... you saying that its a good thing that a class is way underpowered ? come up with some cold hard fucking facts not all this damn i feel shit... you are hiding behind a "fun" statment... well fun is relative and cant really be put down as a mesurement unless you get EVERY player to submit to a constant monitoring of their dopamin levels in their brain. Good fucking luck with get any mesurment from the brain dead zombie "im gonna bravehart attack this archer in a stright line" 2h heros.
I hate to say this, but you come off as the kind of a dick. It doesn't surprise me in the least that you're the type to only worry about his own fun and noone else's.
I hate to say this, but you come off as the kind of a dick. It doesn't surprise me in the least that you're the type to only worry about his own fun and noone else's.
Haha, I like this guy. I never claimed to speak for the whole community, but having played this mod for 5 years, I do have an idea on what most people think.
Killing a horse archer does come with some amount of catharsis, but only because it's the most annoying thing in the game to play against. Is this the only defense of horse archery as a class? That it's fun to kill cunts?
BTW Rohy isn't a horse archer main, he plays gimmick builds with his friends and this is the one gimmick build that hasn't dominated, hence the whine thread.
I love playing horse archery in other mods + single player, because it's fun and it's zero risk high reward. Not a good combination when people's multipliers are on the line and the whole server sits in spectator for 5 minutes while one horse archer circles around.
So let me get this clear... you saying that its a good thing that a class is way underpowered ?
It is actually very common and encouraged that competitive multiplayer games have imbalance in them. I.e. the "noob tube" in CoD/Battlefield games is very easy to use so that even the noobs can get kills with it, although once you become more skilled at the game you realize that there are better options available. In crpg, if HA was easy enough so that any random schmuck could pick it up and be cancer to the rest of the server on day 1, then this mod would surely be even less popular than it currently is. HA is a class that takes dedication and time* to become skilled enough where you can get that valor each round, and that is a good thing. Just because you have extensive experience at being a plated up long mauler, or plated up cav, or super agi my old friend xbow doesn't mean you will be able to be a top tier HA immediately. Look at Kojiro... he was able to farm valor even during the 15 damage cap days. Conversely, when he did play a melee build, he was relatively awful since all of his crpg skill was in HA. All I see in this thread are barely-dedicated HA's who think they can top the scoreboards after playing it for a few hours every other week.(click to show/hide)
Horse ranged kills servers and should either be made playable but absurdly expensive/weak/inaccurate or..... not be playable at all.
(click to show/hide)
I dont think any class makes slows the growth of the game (its damn near non-existant to begin with), but basically removing someones favourite class from the game does make people quit. See 2h thrust nerf for example, people left.
ok one question.... since your main reason for nerfing the class into the ground is "HA/HX are assholes"
whats keeping me from being a dick now vs pre nerf and i dont see how making it take longer to kill someone make the round end faster.
PS whats the reason to keep the +50% reload speed of HX that just show you never really looked at it with balance in mind
and maybe I'm weird but I enjoy watching a skilled HA/HX preform.
His argument isn't nerf or buff but that of sustainability of server population; continuing to argue balance with him will just not go anywhere. I can't disagree or agree with his assumptions as there is little or no evidence to support his claim that Horse demons = less population; and maybe I'm weird but I enjoy watching a skilled HA/HX preform.
Dear Krax and friends,
Boy, I nearly had a heart attack from being unable to post in this thread yesterday. I could feel my blood pressure steadily increasing to a fever pitch.
Anyway, let me try one last time to succinctly explain the position of myself, Duster, and others. I feel that no comprehension of our stance has taken place; only perception of "anyone who plays HA should kill themselves no we arent buffing it just remove it ffs" has been reached.
My top priority with any changes to this mod is increased player population. Specifically, I'd like increased skilled melee population. But to make it simple, more motherfuckers in the server on average is my very top priority.
I believe that increasing power of HA will AT LEAST stifle the slow growth of the mod's population, if not decrease it. It doesn't matter to me the magnitude of the decrease; only that it occurs. If you disagree with me on this point, that is fine. Please understand that all I am doing it attempting to properly convey the position I hold. I am not attempting to convince anyone of anything. In fact, I'd say such a thing is a complete fool's errand. Anyone posting in cRPGs public balance forums in 2015 is going to have a pretty set mind.(click to show/hide)
I do not feel that ranged cavalry is overpowered. I agree with you that it is significantly more difficult to make a large, game-changing impact on a round with ranged cavalry than it is with armoured infantry. And I agree with you that, in order to achieve better balance, ranged cavalry should be made more powerful. Buffed.
However, as previously stated, my priority IS NOT balance. My priority is increased player population. I'm sick of 40 people in NA1 on evenings, 10 of which aren't even a contest to kill. Just memers running around in shirts n' shit.
And AGAIN, feel completely free to disagree and tell me that increased power to ranged cavalry will either do nothing, or god forbid, actually improve server population. That's fine.
It just seems to me that Krax and a couple others simply cannot fathom that someone would not hold perfect balance to be the top concern for changes in cRPG. Like, the shit doesn't compute.
I really am sorry to all those players that either have HA/HX/HT(lol) as a main class, or are relatively unable to perform well with other classes. I don't have anything against you personally.(click to show/hide)
It's just that my own fun is tied to server population. I'm not holding this position because I'm a utilitarian saint that wants the largest possible amount of players to have fun. I do want that, but that's not why I'm posting.
I'm posting because I want more people to kill, damnit!
I too enjoy watching people play really well, no matter the class.
Its fairly obvious that you forgot something
Comparing the classes.
Ranged can attack from a distance but can be chased down unless they hide upstairs that cav cant get em.
+1 -1 +1
Melee has to close the distance to attack but they can chase down ranged. they can also have a big fat Shield to hid behind
-1 +1 +1
Lance and bump cav can outrun and chase down, but they have to close the distance to attack, leaving themselves vulnerable. Due to being 20% faster than HA/HX they can ride away from any danger.
+1 -1 +1
Horse ranged can attack from a distance but can loose horse to an Archer,cav,melee
+1 -1
Dear Krax and friends,
Boy, I nearly had a heart attack from being unable to post in this thread yesterday. I could feel my blood pressure steadily increasing to a fever pitch.Anyway, let me try one last time to succinctly explain the position of myself, Duster, and others. I feel that no comprehension of our stance has taken place; only perception of "anyone who plays HA should kill themselves no we arent buffing it just remove it ffs" has been reached.(click to show/hide)
My top priority with any changes to this mod is increased player population. Specifically, I'd like increased skilled melee population. But to make it simple, more motherfuckers in the server on average is my very top priority.
Why are you favoring one part of the players thats just wrong in any game. (10% since there isnt that many skilled melee)
I believe that increasing power of HA will AT LEAST stifle the slow growth of the mod's population, if not decrease it. It doesn't matter to me the magnitude of the decrease; only that it occurs. If you disagree with me on this point, that is fine. Please understand that all I am doing it attempting to properly convey the position I hold. I am not attempting to convince anyone of anything. In fact, I'd say such a thing is a complete fool's errand. Anyone posting in cRPGs public balance forums in 2015 is going to have a pretty set mind.
Why not try and think outside the box, nerfing is just something you do when you have failed at solving the problem.(click to show/hide)
I do not feel that ranged cavalry is overpowered. I agree with you that it is significantly more difficult to make a large, game-changing impact on a round with ranged cavalry than it is with armoured infantry. And I agree with you that, in order to achieve better balance, ranged cavalry should be made more powerful. Buffed.
However, as previously stated, my priority IS NOT balance. My priority is increased player population. I'm sick of 40 people in NA1 on evenings, 10 of which aren't even a contest to kill. Just memers running around in shirts n' shit.
They why oh why do you keep the long reload on HX the ONLY thing this adds is that the HX will play more defencevly, that leads to the biggest complains about me when i play that im "delaying" well im fucking forced to spent 50% longer time to reload, and since its interuptable i need to stay far fucking away.... so i dont see how you say you want us to be more aggresive in playstyle and nerfs the offensive part of the class....
And AGAIN, feel completely free to disagree and tell me that increased power to ranged cavalry will either do nothing, or god forbid, actually improve server population. That's fine.
It just seems to me that Krax and a couple others simply cannot fathom that someone would not hold perfect balance to be the top concern for changes in cRPG. Like, the shit doesn't compute.
When have i ever said that things need to be perfect balance.... i clearly said that not every class is balanced against one another and there are power gaps, what iv stated is that there isnt a reason to keep a class if you just nerf it into the ground.
I really am sorry to all those players that either have HA/HX/HT(lol) as a main class, or are relatively unable to perform well with other classes. I don't have anything against you personally.(click to show/hide)
It's just that my own fun is tied to server population. I'm not holding this position because I'm a utilitarian saint that wants the largest possible amount of players to have fun. I do want that, but that's not why I'm posting.
Why not think about other solutions that nerfs.... why not say.... let all horses die when flag spawns... id be more than happy with this if you revert the nerfs... this will even compensate the QQing melee for being so impotent against us. this is just something i pulled out of the air now... but why not think along lines like this.... not nerf nerf nerf.
I'm posting because I want more people to kill, damnit!
Dota has a great way to deal with balancing, nearly always buffs unless something is stupidly strong, but even then they usually indirectly nerf. Not just destroying certain characters even though it would be easier.
buff katana.
I think there may be some miscommunication going on here, so I'll just leave this.
It has nothing but inherent advantages over all other classes, so it has to have bad stats and be difficult to play.
Don't buff horse archers. Just nerf foot archers to the same ground, so it be balanced then.nerf this idot on forum with hes qq'ing plox :rolleyes:
HA is still unplayable unless you are Kojiro or Talazar