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Off Topic => General Off Topic => Topic started by: Falka on July 25, 2015, 09:08:08 pm

Title: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Falka on July 25, 2015, 09:08:08 pm
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Angantyr on July 25, 2015, 09:18:25 pm

Good background music when you watch it. It's the 'Grindavísan', written by a Danish governor to the Faroe Islands in the 1830s to celebrate the killing of whales ('grinde'). The first line says: 'Fresh boys whales to kill, it is our joy'. It has since been a staple in traditional Faroese ring dance.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: AntiBlitz on July 25, 2015, 10:23:02 pm
Typically meat comes wrapped in these convenient packs in a supermarket, im not sure how they get it, i assume it must be grown on plants or something, but its really delicious.  Hunting, oh no, thats horribly inhumane, i only eat hamburger meat from the store.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Falka on July 25, 2015, 10:48:22 pm
Yup, I couldn't agree with you more.  Though I don't eat hamburger meat.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Oberyn on July 25, 2015, 11:15:01 pm
Pilot whales aren't endangered. Just pointing that out cause I've seen a whole slew of articles on this subject, and some of them contain blatant lies. Personally I think unless you're a vegan you have no moral leg to stand on calling this "mass slaughter". There's more slaughter on any big fishing port daily, it's just kept safe from your precious dear eyes so you can go and buy pieces of fish wrapped in plastic and pretend it didn't come from a living, breathing creature.

Anyways, I think kids should have to kill, clean and eat at least a chicken once in their life, if they want to continue eating meat. Fish in general are too far removed from humans to elicit the sort of sympathy that entirely urban culture, completely separated from the necessities and realities of nature, combined with constant anthropomorphization of animals, creates for mammalian or at least warm blooded farm animals (Fish don't scream out in pain or panic when you pull them out of the water, bash their brains out with a handy blunt object, or just a concrete floor if that's all that's available, then slit them open to remove the guts)
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on July 25, 2015, 11:17:37 pm
Typically meat comes wrapped in these convenient packs in a supermarket, im not sure how they get it, i assume it must be grown on plants or something, but its really delicious.  Hunting, oh no, thats horribly inhumane, i only eat hamburger meat from the store.

Killing and eating whales and seals is a crime against nature. Unless you are a little tan person who was born and raised in the arctic. You will be increasingly marginalized by white globalized culture until you are kept on a tiny reservation, like a relict population of some ancient beast. But you get to eat cute and sometimes endangered animals. Pretty even trade-off if you ask me.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Oberyn on July 25, 2015, 11:23:12 pm
In the case of seals it is usually a literal cull, as in there's so many that natural predators aren't enough to keep the population down. The only reason anyone gives a shit is because seals look cute to western urbanized humans, with their big melty puppy dog eyes and whiskers. If tuna weren't being fished out of existence already and there were so many that yearly culls was the only way to keep population from exploding, no one except the most vociferous and insane PETA vegans would give a shit.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Falka on July 25, 2015, 11:48:28 pm
Personally I think unless you're a vegan you have no moral leg to stand on calling this "mass slaughter".

I'm a hypocrite and I'm fully aware of that.

Anyways, I think kids should have to kill, clean and eat at least a chicken once in their life, if they want to continue eating meat.

Erm, what...
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Kafein on July 25, 2015, 11:55:30 pm
Anyways, I think kids should have to kill, clean and eat at least a chicken once in their life, if they want to continue eating meat.

At what age? I'm pretty convinced that would significantly increase the number of people who become vegetarian out of principle.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Oberyn on July 26, 2015, 12:04:16 am
Good. It's better than the whiny hipocrisy. More for the rest of us.

Falka, what do you find soooo shocking about that? Strangely humans have managed to do things like that from very young ages for millenia. Still are, in the vast majority of the planet. They don't watch cartoons about anthropomorphisized rabbits and ducks and chickens and cows, then have meals where meat is consistently present, and completely fail to make the link between the meat on their plate and actual, living breathing animals because their only interactions with them are from at most videos and maybe petting zoos. If you eat meat from an animal you wouldn't personally kill you're a gigantic fucking hypocrite, which you at least admit. Willingly killing an animal to eat it isn't some fucking psycho shit, it's called reality.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Siiem on July 26, 2015, 12:06:44 am
150 whales out of about a million + is hardly a massacre. And I didn't see anything especially brutal about their death. Please rename "This Happens"
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Teeth on July 26, 2015, 12:11:55 am
Anyways, I think kids should have to kill, clean and eat at least a chicken once in their life, if they want to continue eating meat.
Yeah, I am always pitching this idea too. I am afraid Kafein is right in that this would probably drive people to vegetarianism, which is why it is a good idea. Killing a chicken or knowing that pilot whales get slaughtered by the dozens should not be a problem for anyone who eats meat. Any detached hypocrites that disagree can go and reduce the strain on the planet, while I enjoy my lovely hand-slaughtered chicken breast.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Utrakil on July 26, 2015, 12:27:59 am
Can somebody please dig out a video of a modern slaughterhouse where cows are processed in unbelievable numbers every day. After seeing this you would feel happy for those wales that they had a live in freedom and a fast death.

Edit: I found some examples (was a quick search so not the best material):
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=16d_1431783596 (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=16d_1431783596)
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=429_1203341293 (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=429_1203341293)
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Angantyr on July 26, 2015, 12:38:45 am
Or go take a look at an industrial chicken farm. It's some of the worst animal cruelty I've seen. I have no problem that we kill animals and eat them, but I think we should at least strive to not torture them and make their lives living hell before doing so. I try to buy ecological meat whenever possible, and luckily ecology is expanding in Denmark (and Sweden) due to state subsidies and supportive consumers and you can get it almost everywhere.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Leshma on July 26, 2015, 12:47:51 am
Pilot whales aren't endangered. Just pointing that out cause I've seen a whole slew of articles on this subject, and some of them contain blatant lies. Personally I think unless you're a vegan you have no moral leg to stand on calling this "mass slaughter". There's more slaughter on any big fishing port daily, it's just kept safe from your precious dear eyes so you can go and buy pieces of fish wrapped in plastic and pretend it didn't come from a living, breathing creature.

Fish ain't mammal. We humans tend to feel for other mammals (whales and dolphins included). Not so much for rest of the fauna.

Edit: Didn't realize you said the same thing in next paragraph.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: AntiBlitz on July 26, 2015, 12:59:20 am
In 'Murica we would have shot them from 3 miles away, unlike you barbarian Europeans living in 1300AD with your knife crazes, have to get in all close and spurt blood all over your faces like fucking savages.  The horror.

Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Falka on July 26, 2015, 01:01:23 am
Willingly killing an animal to eat it isn't some fucking psycho shit, it's called reality.

I see some difference between killing cute pilot whales and killing chickens in animal farm. It's, of course, only a cultural thing, but so what, it doesn't mean it's meaningless. In china you can kill and eat as many cute little huge-eyed puppies as you want, while in POland for killing a dog you go to jail - even if you intend to eat it. The distinction is based exclusively on cultural values. Same with killing a livestock in a slaughterhouse and killing a pilot whales with your own hands.

Anyways, I think kids should have to kill, clean and eat at least a chicken once in their life, if they want to continue eating meat.
If you eat meat from an animal you wouldn't personally kill you're a gigantic fucking hypocrite, which you at least admit.

I'm a hypocrite, but not exactly for the reasons you point out. Do you really expect someone who has grown up in a big city, never in his life saw farm animals, let alone killing them, to be able to kill and clean a chicken? Most of friends of mine wouldn't kill even a carp for christmas eve dinner.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Oberyn on July 26, 2015, 01:03:52 am
Can somebody please dig out a video of a modern slaughterhouse where cows are processed in unbelievable numbers every day. After seeing this you would feel happy for those wales that they had a live in freedom and a fast death.

Edit: I found some examples (was a quick search so not the best material):
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=16d_1431783596 (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=16d_1431783596)
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=429_1203341293 (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=429_1203341293)

I can't understand how a person could work day after day doing this sort of shit and not go insane, but it's happened on the same industrial type chain even with humans, so it's not really a surprise. We're frighteningly addaptable when it comes to violence and ignoring it.
This is how it is usually done in Brasil, but usually the throat is slit right afterwards to get as much blood out as possible before it congeals, then skinning and hanging.  http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=66f_1433857370 .  Please note children's voices in the background, the guy doing the blunt axing is a teenager, a huge part of the planet is still mostly rural, it is not unusual or traumatic in any way.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Oberyn on July 26, 2015, 01:06:21 am
I see some difference between killing cute pilot whales and killing chickens in animal farm. It's, of course, only a cultural thing, but so what, it doesn't mean it's meaningless. In china you can kill and eat as many cute little huge-eyed puppies as you want, while in POland for killing a dog you go to jail. The distinction is based exclusively on cultural values. Same with killing a livestock in a slaughterhouse and killing a pilot whales with your own hands.

I'm a hypocrite, but not exactly for the reasons you point out. Do you really expect someone who has grown up in a big city, never in his life saw farm animals, let alone killing them, to be able to kill and clean a chicken? Most of friends of mine wouldn't kill even a carp for christmas eve dinner.

If shown how to, I think most people would be able to do it, it's not exactly rocket science. It doesn't take a degree in agronomy to pluck a chicken. Are most of your friends vegans? Maybe they should be, if witnessing the reality is enough to cut their appetite.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Falka on July 26, 2015, 01:06:34 am
We're frighteningly addaptable when it comes to violence and ignoring it.

Some of us.

Are most of your friends vegans? Maybe they should be, if witnessing the reality is enough to cut their appetite.

One of them was, until he broke a leg and doctor told him his diet lacks proteins or some other nutriens which are in meat  :wink:
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Oberyn on July 26, 2015, 01:08:32 am
Some of us.

Really? You eat the flesh of animals but refuse to even think about the consequences or reality of it. I think you're a champ at it.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Falka on July 26, 2015, 01:28:56 am
I was referring to the first part of your sentence, about violence, not ignoring it.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Oberyn on July 26, 2015, 01:40:29 am
Well, statement was meant as written. It's not the sole capacity for violence that's frightening, it's the ignoring it part. I see no problem with killing animals for food, because it is a biological necessity. Yes, necessity, and all the unhealthy vegans with their brittle, easily broken bones and cherry picked studies can go fuck themselves. It's necessary violence. But at least I'm fully conscious of what that means, I don't pretend it doesn't exist because it makes me uncomfortable.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Siiem on July 26, 2015, 02:44:54 am
Just gonna put this here. http://www.livescience.com/24875-meat-human-brain.html
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: F i n on July 26, 2015, 11:01:10 am
Anyways, I think kids should have to kill, clean and eat at least a chicken once in their life, if they want to continue eating meat.

I agree. Never thouht that would happen :D

We decided to do just that when we were younger. Not because we're cruel or taking any kind of pleasure in killing the poor thing, but because we felt like we needed to make sure to understand the whole story.

After we had gotten it over with, we made ourselves a nice meal and ate it. And for the first time we ate it with the consiousness that act should deserve. None of us stuffed him self with Burgers, while watching tv after that.

I think facing your worst the only way to fully understand what you are. Killing the animals you eat does not feel good, but it certainly teaches you respect.

Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Xant on July 26, 2015, 11:19:33 am
I did it too, not because I felt I needed to understand the whole story, but because I'm cruel and took pleasure in killing the poor thing.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Kafein on July 26, 2015, 11:44:57 am
Ah Zant.

The thing that bothers me the most about this is how mind-numbingly common animal or even plant anthropomorphism is. It even goes against animal well-being in some cases, because we think all animals have the same kinds of needs as we do. Regardless, I think that in almost all western countries (and most of the world by the way) the amount of meat being consumed by the average person is like five times higher than what would be healthy. Furthermore, meat is by far the least energy-efficient food to produce and generates a lot of GMG on top of that.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Falka on July 26, 2015, 11:54:58 am
I see no problem with killing animals for food, because it is a biological necessity.

I don't disagree with that, but it doesn't mean that killing all animals, in all circumstances should be treated in the same way.

Killing the animals you eat does not feel good, but it certainly teaches you respect.

Respect to what? Animals? I assure you that I can respect them without a need to kill them.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Molly on July 26, 2015, 12:01:12 pm
I don't disagree with that, but it doesn't mean that killing all animals, in all circumstances should be treated in the same way.
Obviously a traditional thing connected to their cultural history. Who are you to deny them their culture?
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Overdriven on July 26, 2015, 12:07:46 pm
I've only killed and eaten something once and that was a pheasant but it was a good experience.

Certainly didn't put me off meat.

However, my aunt who worked in a slaughterhouse as a student has been vegetarian ever since.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Falka on July 26, 2015, 12:10:18 pm
Obviously a traditional thing connected to their cultural history. Who are you to deny them their culture?

Have no power to deny them anything, so I don't. Doesn't mean that their "traditional thing" can not repel me.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Xant on July 26, 2015, 12:14:28 pm

I just wish humans hadn't made almost all species nearly extinct, except for the food-sources that are kept in pens. I'd gladly hunt my own food.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Kafein on July 26, 2015, 01:18:07 pm
Obviously a traditional thing connected to their cultural history. Who are you to deny them their culture?

Do you not realize how fucked up this argument is?
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Molly on July 26, 2015, 01:28:00 pm
Nope.
As pointed out, not an endangered species. That would make it different. Other than that I don't see the issue with it.

They kill for food, not for sport.
Same with some Chinese farmer on the countryside, preparing a dog or cat for dinner. So what? It's meat, they eat it.

Just because I wouldn't eat it doesn't give me the right to tell them otherwise. That would be pretty arrogant.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Piok on July 26, 2015, 02:28:39 pm
Hope we will not return to our Paeolithic diet :mrgreen:
Ritual food is our tradition...
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Falka on July 26, 2015, 03:07:12 pm
(click to show/hide)

You missed the point I think. If I'm not mistaken Kafein was referring to the kind of argument you have used, this: "it's their tradition and cultural history, so can't be criticized".
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Leshma on July 26, 2015, 03:09:07 pm
Nope.
As pointed out, not an endangered species. That would make it different. Other than that I don't see the issue with it.

They kill for food, not for sport.
Same with some Chinese farmer on the countryside, preparing a dog or cat for dinner. So what? It's meat, they eat it.

Just because I wouldn't eat it doesn't give me the right to tell them otherwise. That would be pretty arrogant.

I've recently found out that my true roots lie in cannibalistic culture of Amazonian tribes. They especially like to eat fat German scholars. Who are you to have a valid argument against my newfound taste for your grilled, tasty buttocks?
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Siiem on July 26, 2015, 03:22:38 pm
I've recently found out that my true roots lie in cannibalistic culture of Amazonian tribes. They especially like to eat fat German scholars. Who are you to have a valid argument against my newfound taste for your grilled, tasty buttocks?

Well putting it that way, we should start eating asians, the place is crawling with them. And they breed efficiently, they have been shown to eat anything, so we can feed them cannibalistically. Problem solved.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Molly on July 26, 2015, 03:27:56 pm
Generalizing a statement obviously aimed at a certain very specific subject afterwards in your mind isn't the way to go, I believe. Not surprised that Leshma went that route. Disappointed by everyone else tho.
Not my fault you people are not used to someone actually assuming people to stay on topic.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on July 26, 2015, 04:55:41 pm
I did it too, not because I felt I needed to understand the whole story, but because I'm cruel and took pleasure in killing the poor thing.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: F i n on July 26, 2015, 06:12:28 pm

Respect to what? Animals? I assure you that I can respect them without a need to kill them.

Not to animals. That kind respect u should have the moment you're born or you're just sick.

Respect for their death.  And knowing its death youre talking about. Not just another burger.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Angantyr on July 27, 2015, 01:06:41 am
'I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully' - George W. Bush, 43rd President of the United States

Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Siiem on July 27, 2015, 01:33:26 am
(click to show/hide)


Sheeeet, I've killed a lot of trout, pike and grayling in the last month...

Edit- And Bass.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: ecorcheur_brokar on July 27, 2015, 02:02:59 am
The thing bothering me with the wales killing in the faroe is that wales have too many chemical in their body due to pollution and people actually can not eat them after the killing.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Siiem on July 27, 2015, 02:09:55 am
The thing bothering me with the wales killing in the faroe is that wales have too many chemical in their body due to pollution and people actually can not eat them after the killing.

Maybe they could import chinese female babies instead and murder them. That way the Faroese get to kill something, China get to keep female % up. And the bio pollution to living life would be the same.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Kafein on July 28, 2015, 11:17:02 pm
No, Molly. You're the one being wrong.

What apparently everybody except you understood (and I have a hard time understanding it any other way even though I tried) when reading your post is that you thought "cultural heritage" was an excuse for something that would otherwise be unacceptable. That's wrong. Facts are, that there are plenty enough of those whales around. It would be fine to kill them even if the "massacre" was a one-year fad based on a popular novel written by a New-Yorker on cocaine who visited the Faroes once.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Falka on July 28, 2015, 11:32:44 pm
Respect for their death.  And knowing its death youre talking about. Not just another burger.

People tend to put too much emphasis on drawing conclusions from personal experience. There's really no need for me to kill a pig to realize that the meat which I eat once was a living creature.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Molly on July 29, 2015, 08:34:22 am
No, Molly. You're the one being wrong.

What apparently everybody except you understood (and I have a hard time understanding it any other way even though I tried) when reading your post is that you thought "cultural heritage" was an excuse for something that would otherwise be unacceptable. That's wrong. Facts are, that there are plenty enough of those whales around. It would be fine to kill them even if the "massacre" was a one-year fad based on a popular novel written by a New-Yorker on cocaine who visited the Faroes once.
Maybe we should clearly state what we're actually talking about cuz there are 2 points here:
1. being that they kill those whales when they could eat... chicken.
2. the way they kill them

to 1.) There are enough of them around that killing and eating the produce is okay
to 2.) This is prolly the real issue here. It looks like a cheap horror movie. Personally, I doubt that most beef and pork meat is produced in a much less stress inducing way. They probably try but I doubt it works. Not to mention the way they are held. But here the tradition comes into play. I do not know the historical background for his but there is a lot of room to assume parts of it that are very likely: initiating boys into manhood, forcing team work and traditional ways of hunting them.
That is far from unacceptable. That's why I pointed out that, and I still think you do, you deliberately put a statement in my mouth that I never made. I made very clear by now that I solely pointed that statement towards that specific way of hunting that specific animal. And especially because it would be okay even if "the "massacre" was a one-year fad based on a popular novel written by a New-Yorker on cocaine who visited the Faroes once" I still don't see the issue with my statement. You generalize it when it's not meant to be generalized, like Leshma did.

tl;dr: I talk specific when you still assume I talk general.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Kafein on July 29, 2015, 10:57:33 am
Maybe we should clearly state what we're actually talking about cuz there are 2 points here:
1. being that they kill those whales when they could eat... chicken.
2. the way they kill them

to 1.) There are enough of them around that killing and eating the produce is okay
to 2.) This is prolly the real issue here. It looks like a cheap horror movie. Personally, I doubt that most beef and pork meat is produced in a much less stress inducing way. They probably try but I doubt it works. Not to mention the way they are held. But here the tradition comes into play. I do not know the historical background for his but there is a lot of room to assume parts of it that are very likely: initiating boys into manhood, forcing team work and traditional ways of hunting them.
That is far from unacceptable. That's why I pointed out that, and I still think you do, you deliberately put a statement in my mouth that I never made. I made very clear by now that I solely pointed that statement towards that specific way of hunting that specific animal. And especially because it would be okay even if "the "massacre" was a one-year fad based on a popular novel written by a New-Yorker on cocaine who visited the Faroes once" I still don't see the issue with my statement. You generalize it when it's not meant to be generalized, like Leshma did.

tl;dr: I talk specific when you still assume I talk general.

Well now you're coming up with unrelated stuff. Regardless, if your previous post was not meant to be generalized in some way (which is really, really not clear at all but okay), then what was your point? "In this particular instance I think it's fine because of their cultural heritage" is a meaningless statement, unless you think cultural heritage *is* actually a valid excuse for something, and we go back to square one.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Molly on July 29, 2015, 11:06:48 am
Now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: F i n on July 29, 2015, 12:23:29 pm
People tend to put too much emphasis on drawing conclusions from personal experience. There's really no need for me to kill a pig to realize that the meat which I eat once was a living creature.

Maybe not you. But could you agree, that if the majority would know what its really about, they would maybe not buy cheap supermarket meat every day - and therefor not support the mass slaughter facilities?

Knowing what meat is. Knowing what meat means, makes you buy your meat from local, fair butchers, makes you "celebrate" your once-in-a-week steak.

And since it's basically murder we are talking about, there should be a bit more conciousness in peoples minds. Especially when it comes to supporting or not supporting bad quality meat from animals that are, under the worst conditions, raised for the sole purpose of feeding fat, stupid, ignorant people.

Having to kill at least one of the thousands of animals a human being consumes during his or her lifetime, might achieve just that.

It definately did for me.

You got my point now or do i need to specify more...?
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Leesin on July 29, 2015, 12:39:21 pm
It's pathetic how blown out of proportion this has become, the ignorance is astonishing. These Whales suffer far less than a lot of livestock we use for sustenance day in day out, these whales live free their entire lives and a very small amount of them are killed fairly quickly in this 'slaughter' each year, a slaughter that is never going to drive them into extinction. The whale meat provides the islanders a decent amount of meat to consume at little expense, why should they stop it just because a few hippies can't handle seeing some blood in the water. I learned the value of it myself after catching rabbits, breaking their necks, skinning and gutting them, it isn't nice but it's how meat ends up on our plates and has done so for far longer than these new age hippy fucks have been crying about it.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Gravoth_iii on July 29, 2015, 01:07:38 pm
Ignorance is bliss, ill stay ignorant till i have more money. I could go for some whale too, never tried that.

Ive seen enough videos of pig slaughter if i actually went to one id probably become a vegan, and fuck that. Slaughtering one of my own would be hard to get over since i often struggle with killing bugs, even spiders and i hate spiders.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Falka on July 29, 2015, 02:18:47 pm
But could you agree, that if the majority would know what its really about, they would maybe not buy cheap supermarket meat every day - and therefor not support the mass slaughter facilities?

Knowing what meat is. Knowing what meat means, makes you buy your meat from local, fair butchers

Nope, I couldn't. I don't agree that people don't know "what meat is" and "what meat means" in the first place. Maybe we shouldn't have a high opinion of human intelligence, but people aren't that dumb to don't know that the piece of meat on their plate used to be a pig or a cow which someone had to kill. They're just indifferent and I highly doubt that killing by your own hand an animal would change their attitude. After all in POland each year almost in every family someone kill a carp for christmas eve dinner and guess what, people still don't give a damn.

Having to kill at least one of the thousands of animals a human being consumes during his or her lifetime, might achieve just that.

It definately did for me.

So because of some personal, anecdotal experience you'd like to force all kids to kill a chicken?  :o Even though part, if not most, of them would be able to realize the same as you without a need to kill an animal? Great, then I have another anecdotal evidence for you. A friend of mine who was a vegetarian never in his life killed a chicken. Or any other animal. Conclusions?

PS. I'm sure the practical aspect of the whole operation would be very... interesting. All these shool trips, going to the "local butchers" to " kill, clean and eat a chicken"  :o
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Kafein on July 29, 2015, 02:49:21 pm
In this particular instance I think it's fine because only *our* cultural heritage makes killing that particular animal somehow 'ugly' or different than killing a pig or a cow or a lamb. That's if you want to latch onto the cultural heritage point Molly stated. Who are we to say 'ew, eating whales isn't cool man', that's far different than the extreme examples of 'derp, I guess my culture allows me to eat humans'.

In prehistory over in bonny Britain eating waterfowl seemed to be taboo for some weird reason, in most of our history eating dogs is taboo (apart from some weird period approx. 3000 years ago where that was fine - but not before or after that period). Over here it'd be weird to eat insects despite the obvious nutritional benefits. These things change and there's not always an objective 'truth' to what animals should or should not be eaten, it all draws very strongly on what you're accustomed to ending up on your plate.

That's if you want to be general based on your cultural prejudices over what should or should not be eaten. I bet the way we butcher and eat cows is distasteful to some cultures, do we turn around and obey their cultural norm regarding what animals are 'good' to eat? Hell no.

Okay, first of all I don't know why you bring eating habits into this. As I said, killing whales that are not endangered or otherwise critically important in their biome is just as fine if you do it for eating or for making beauty products or for the pleasure of the hunt or traditions or whatever. My objectivist view on the matter is that whether killing an animal is okay or not does not depend on why you're killing it, it depends on the animal itself. It is an universal good to preserve biodiversity and to keep ecosystems stable. This has nothing to do with what animals are good to eat in my culture or anyone else's.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Overdriven on July 29, 2015, 02:52:33 pm
Nope, I couldn't. I don't agree that people don't know "what meat is" and "what meat means" in the first place. Maybe we shouldn't have a high opinion of human intelligence, but people aren't that dumb to don't know that the piece of meat on their plate used to be a pig or a cow which someone had to kill. They're just indifferent and I highly doubt that killing by your own hand an animal would change their attitude. After all in POland each year almost in every family someone kill a carp for christmas eve dinner and guess what, people still don't give a damn.

So because of some personal, anecdotal experience you'd like to force all kids to kill a chicken?  :o Even though part, if not most, of them would be able to realize the same as you without a need to kill an animal? Great, then I have another anecdotal evidence for you. A friend of mine who was a vegetarian never in his life killed a chicken. Or any other animal. Conclusions?

PS. I'm sure the practical aspect of the whole operation would be very... interesting. All these shool trips, going to the "local butchers" to " kill, clean and eat a chicken"  :o

It's about detachment. It's all very well having some vague idea of where your meat comes from. But very few people are confronted by that in reality. Having to do something yourself, in front of your face, is very different from simply being aware of something going on somewhere. It's very easy to detach yourself from the process and most people do just by being so far removed from it.

The same goes for any life experience. Sure you might be aware there are people living in slums some place in the world. But it hits much harder when you go and see that first hand.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Xant on July 29, 2015, 02:59:18 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


They deserved it for their actions.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Leshma on July 29, 2015, 03:24:08 pm
From what I've gathered through the years, think that Kafein don't give a flying fuck about traditions. If you want to use "its mah culture" card as an excuse for doing some stupid shit, that won't fly when it comes to Kafein.

Cannibalism is also part of the culture of many tribes and it isn't just about treating human as food source. One tribe in Polynesia or Indonesia or Micronesia or wherever somewhere between Asia and Austrialia, is practicing cannibalism. But it ain't just eating unfortunate foreigners because of their silky white skin. They do it because when an elder is dying, he whispers on someone's ear who is the person responsible for his death. They have a belief where a demon is devouring people on their death bed. So when someone ill says a name, that member of a tribe isn't considered human anymore but a demon who killed and wants to devour fellow tribesman. Because of that, other tribesmen kill him, chop his head and extremities and serve him as a meal. It is their culture bruh!
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Gravoth_iii on July 29, 2015, 03:33:00 pm
From what I've gathered through the years, think that Kafein don't give a flying fuck about traditions. If you want to use "its mah culture" card as an excuse for doing some stupid shit, that won't fly when it comes to Kafein.

Cannibalism is also part of the culture of many tribes and it isn't just about treating human as food source. One tribe in Polynesia or Indonesia or Micronesia or wherever somewhere between Asia and Austrialia, is practicing cannibalism. But it ain't just eating unfortunate foreigners because of their silky white skin. They do it because when an elder dies, he whispers on someone's ear who is the person responsible for his death. They have a belief where a demon is devouring people on their death bed. So when someone ill says a name, that member of a tribe isn't considered human anymore but a demon who killed and wants to devour fellow tribesman. Because of that, other tribesmen kill him, chop his head and extremities and serve him as a meal. It is their culture bruh!

I wouldnt say no if i was served human meat tbh, as long as i wouldnt be punished for it in any way.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Leshma on July 29, 2015, 03:36:51 pm
Knowing what meat is. Knowing what meat means, makes you buy your meat from local, fair butchers, makes you "celebrate" your once-in-a-week steak.

You seem halfway to becoming a vegan. Most people don't care too much about livestock and they have a perfectly fine excuse for it. Humans, as top of the food chain who seem to care about each other tend to die in really stupid ways every second all around the world. While I'm writing this probably hundreds of emaciated kids died in Africa or India, many died from some nasty disease that makes death looks like salvation. And I can't do a bloody thing about it. Therefore don't think about it because I have enough things of mine to care about. Why the fuck should I care about livestock that is systematically bred to be slaughtered months after they are born?

People who care about such things don't have real issues in life and are overprotected by those around them, especially those who are part of organizations that are working to stop the slaughters of animals.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Leshma on July 29, 2015, 03:54:21 pm
It is our irrational part, at least that is how I see whole good-bad thing. I consider myself good and would help fellow human if I can. That includes saving from being eaten by another human.

Good usually comes with righteous. Which means I would gladly kill cannibals, even though they are fellow people. Except to me they are not, anymore, if they do harm people. You know tolerance, you're free to do anything until you take another person's freedom. Then you're not free at all. Many people around the world share same mindset and that is why crime and killing fellow humans tend to get punished.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Kafein on July 29, 2015, 05:05:53 pm
Then what's your objection? Fairly sure Molly only brought up that this was something their culture does in reaction to the knee-jerk 'OMG you killing wales!? That's evil!'

No. What Molly brought up is that I should stop criticizing them for behaving in a way that isn't compatible with my culture. First, I did not do anything of the sort. Second, I wouldn't. Much like I disapprove of restaurants in China offering meals from stolen pet dogs, not because they are dogs and I wouldn't eat a dog myself (although you never know) but because they are stolen. As far as I know, theft is a moral crime in China as well. In the case of whale killings, they are apparently not causing damage to anyone except the whales.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Molly on July 29, 2015, 05:12:36 pm
To clear that up:

My Statement was aimed at Falka and his outrage on how "they" could even do that.
I mean, I am not a big fan of that whale killing either tho.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Leshma on July 29, 2015, 05:35:56 pm
Only problem I have with this whale is killing is that is being performed by Viking descendants, who I'm not too fond off (thank you cRPG) and because it looks to me they are having shitload of fun killing those whales. Doesn't seem it is just hunt for the sake of food but there's an family enjoyment on that video.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Falka on July 29, 2015, 05:52:41 pm
My Statement was aimed at Falka and his outrage on how "they" could even do that.

Erm, where exactly, in which post did you see this act of my "outrage"?
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Siiem on July 29, 2015, 08:07:57 pm
Only problem I have with this whale is killing is that is being performed by Viking descendants, who I'm not too fond off (thank you cRPG) and because it looks to me they are having shitload of fun killing those whales. Doesn't seem it is just hunt for the sake of food but there's an family enjoyment on that video.

Whatever brings people together. :)
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Leshma on July 29, 2015, 08:13:51 pm
Don't mind me, I'm pisces. We tend to have special connection with sea mammals for some reason. Also weird, emotional dreamers. Very fucked up zodiac sign.

If you ever get a male child whose astrological sign is pisces, please do him a favor and throw him in the sea. Girls should do fine.
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Gravoth_iii on July 29, 2015, 08:19:53 pm
Don't mind me, I'm pisces. We tend to have special connection with sea mammals for some reason. Also weird, emotional dreamers. Very fucked up zodiac sign.

If you ever get a male child whose astrological sign is pisces, please do him a favor and throw him in the sea. Girls should do fine.

Im pisces too, and i can maybe sort of approve this. Yes
Title: Re: Mass Slaughter
Post by: Angantyr on July 29, 2015, 11:58:03 pm
Virgo.