cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Patoson on March 13, 2015, 12:09:33 pm

Title: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: Patoson on March 13, 2015, 12:09:33 pm
We all know that, on top of the fewer population, a lot of people have started playing DTV instead of battle/siege, just for the rewards, thus involuntarily contributing to battle/siege's "death".

The typical solution in cRPG, I guess, would be to nerf DTV rewards back, leaving them inferior to the other game-modes in average.

My suggestion is the opposite: increase the rewards of every other game-mode, making DTV inferior again - not a grind game-mode but the newbies and noobs game-mode it always was. :)

You may think this solution would be too much, making levelling up too easy, or "destroying" the concept of cRPG, but, at this stage, I think that boosting xp and gold gain would actually attract more players, both old and new. Given the current population, I think that faster levelling up and heirloom acquisition would be motivating. I think the concept of cRPG is not just levels or the grind, but the best modification of Warband, with its unique different game mechanics and features, and the optimization with WSE2, and, by shortening the grind, the mod would be more dynamic.

By tripling the rewards (both xp and gold) of Battle and Siege, these game-modes would yield more rewards than DTV again, and, at the same time, still be more fun (to a lot of people), and, if you think about it, e.g. a Battle round with x5 that ends in 4 minutes would give you 3750 gold (DTV max reward is 3000 gold), and, if the round lasted longer, even more gold. The xp gain would also be higher than DTV's maximum.

If you think it's too much of an increase, you could tone it all down, including DTV, but I suggest both xp and gold rewards stay higher than the old. Best game mechanics + smaller grind = more dynamism + more players.
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: Richyy on March 13, 2015, 12:25:09 pm
x1 on battle and siege will give 1m on each ticket
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: Hecur on March 13, 2015, 02:25:20 pm
http://forum.melee.org/general-discussion/dtv-gives-too-much-gold!/
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: War_Ferret on March 13, 2015, 04:38:03 pm
Make rewards the same for all modes. It's only fair and ppl don't have to pick a mode because of them. Decrease gold gain a little for all I care, but leave xp the way it is in dtv. So I can at least dream of level 38. The rate of gold gain is only relevant for those who have saved a lot anyway.
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: WarLord on March 13, 2015, 04:50:15 pm
[Y]es. Increasing battle/siege xp and/or gold would make me never again leec.. erm play on DTV, maybe only on very rare occasions.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: Gravoth_iii on March 13, 2015, 06:02:13 pm
Quote from: War_Ferret on March 13, 2015, 04:38:03 pm
Make rewards the same for all modes. It's only fair and ppl don't have to pick a mode because of them. Decrease gold gain a little for all I care, but leave xp the way it is in dtv. So I can at least dream of level 38. The rate of gold gain is only relevant for those who have saved a lot anyway.

Please tell me you havent grinded DTV purely up to level 37..
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: Leshma on March 13, 2015, 06:11:49 pm
Leave balancing to me, and I promise things will be million times better than now :D
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: Gravoth_iii on March 13, 2015, 06:28:28 pm
Quote from: Leshma on March 13, 2015, 06:11:49 pm
Leave balancing to me, and I promise things will be million times better than now :D

Yay for a new dawn, a strength whores world, long live plate!
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: War_Ferret on March 13, 2015, 07:47:07 pm
Quote from: Gravoth_iii on March 13, 2015, 06:02:13 pm
Please tell me you havent grinded DTV purely up to level 37..

Just mostly...
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: POOPHAMMER on March 13, 2015, 08:04:43 pm
Yes, we need more reward for playing a real game mode. Why are people rewarded more for making a shield wall and spamming up swing against retarded AI bots? I actually broke down and tried DTV a few times over the week because nobody else is playing battle, and I can see why. I managed to make insane gold compared to battle, while wearing full plate and doing nothing but sitting behind a shield wall and spamming up swing. It is fucking retarded that people are rewarded more for exploiting shitty bot AI rather than actually playing against people that can fight back.
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: Leshma on March 14, 2015, 01:10:32 am
Quote from: Gravoth_iii on March 13, 2015, 06:28:28 pm
Yay for a new dawn, a strength whores world, long live plate!

Would revert things to pre Tydeus patch. Only thing I would keep is wpf synergy and would buff it quite a bit. That is all.
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: NJ_Legion_Icedtea on March 14, 2015, 10:50:09 pm
Yesterday I retired, went onto DTV at level 1 and after the round of peasants I got to level 8 :D

DTV is the only game mode I really enjoy right now though and when its completely populated and I can't get on it sucks. Send the leechers back! :D
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: Leshma on March 14, 2015, 11:59:04 pm
I'd prefer mod that doesn't involve american devs. Just look at other medieval games made by american devs, they all suck.
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: Gravoth_iii on March 15, 2015, 01:29:50 am
Quote from: HESKEYTIME on March 14, 2015, 11:00:17 pm
Psssssssh, why dont you prefer the gimped version of Native combat that you get from the rich PvP experience of crpg?

That's what all the pros here prefer and we all want to be like them right?

People that roam the forums actually enjoy the game too, thats very surprising!
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: Patoson on March 15, 2015, 02:24:17 pm
I used to play Battle all the time since I started playing cRPG. I was never a good player, but I really enjoyed the game-mode. Then DTV was added, and I liked it, in all its different forms. But, after playing DTV too much, I got too used to the bad monotonous "skill" of bots and I lost skill for "PvP". On top of that, I have the same ADSL connection since I started playing cRPG, while a lot of players have gotten much better connections, leaving me with x2, x3, or even more the ping of the average player, making it nearly impossible to block fast attacks (and a lot of players now use fast weapons and have high wpf). So I gave up on "PvP" until I got a better connection.

I enjoy DTV because it's a much more relaxed game-mode where you can chat a lot more since bots generally take time to run to us each wave, and it has its moments. It's also good practice for beginners. But what it shouldn't be is a repetitive and dull exploitable game-mode, where you just play with 1 hand if you're 2h/pole or you're AFK if you're a shielder, while, at the same time, you are getting much more xp and gold than in "PvP".

I want DTV to be a secondary game-mode again, where noobs like me play because they enjoy it and not because it's a grindfest. And that's also where Uther's suggestion (http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/bring-back-old-dtvirgin-maps/) comes into play.
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: NJ_Legion_Icedtea on March 15, 2015, 03:24:58 pm
Quote from: Patoson on March 15, 2015, 02:24:17 pm
I enjoy DTV because it's a much more relaxed game-mode

+1
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: Gravoth_iii on March 15, 2015, 07:28:01 pm
I dont mind people playing DTV, i cant stand the game mode much more than i can siege (they give me the same vibe of completely mindless fighting) but to each their own... Dont kill the mode, just put it on equal ground, people who are attracted to DTV probably dont enjoy battle or siege enough to bother with that anyways (if dtv was killed off)..
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: Hoppster on March 18, 2015, 02:18:58 am
battle/ siege xp has already been doubled once. they might as well remove the grind completely at this point. theres never anybody playing when i get home anymore, eu1 used to be populated 24/7 even just 1 year ago. now its a ghost town at 9pm. i think if this games gonna claw back any of the many people (like me) that have stopped playing they need to fix all the items revert some of the really bad changes and massivly boost the gold/xp
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: Gnjus on March 18, 2015, 07:51:16 pm
Quote from: Patoson on March 15, 2015, 02:24:17 pm
I enjoy DTV because it's a much more relaxed game-mode where you can chat a lot more since bots generally take time to run to us each wave

Battle can be relaxing as well if you play it in the right way and you can also chat a lot during those special "whole server going full retard by running around in circles" moments.
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: Leshma on March 18, 2015, 08:22:11 pm
Siege can also be relaxing if you play it in the "right way" like Kurt Frankenberg and Yakety Sax. Find a tower far away from flag and shoot at attackers spawn.
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: Patoson on March 19, 2015, 05:46:54 pm
Here's a video that shows what DTV has turned into (mindless grindfest).


As you can see, the map has three entrances: a doorway next to our spawn, the gate and another doorway near the gate. This is a high level round, and it's finished in less than 3 minutes, getting the max reward, which is 87k xp (max gen) and 3k gold. The other two rounds I played before this were just the same.

This is what a lot of DTV players only want in DTV: fast and easy xp and gold. And it's what DTV mostly consists of with the new rotation.
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: War_Ferret on March 20, 2015, 12:17:50 pm
Since the one-dimensional infantry AI is probably hard-coded, I don't assume it would be possible to change something about the mindless charge and group hug behavior, which only works because bots don't teamhit. That's why DTV will always be about exploiting weaknesses to survive the zerg rush. If bots acted more natural/cautiously and kept a reasonable distance from one another, being outnumbered by them wouldn't be so bad. The only thing that might help despite the AI, imo, would be to decrease their numbers and increase their stats by a lot.

I don't know what kind of server settings there are, but I think AI difficulty (if available) should be set to max and game speed to second highest. Since HRE DTV still has bots that spam like hell but only block one direction (at least harder than now), I'm guessing there are some AI settings. What would also be good is bots that spam AND block right, if possible. If you ask me, do everything to make individual bots stronger and then decrease their number. Then, maybe, you can fight them with skill instead of exploits and it won't be such a (meat-)grindfest anymore.

... and yes to super-nudge!! No to invisible walls!

edit: nice side-effect of fewer bots would be the option to increase player limit significantly.
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: Leshma on March 20, 2015, 01:19:30 pm
Quote from: War_Ferret on March 20, 2015, 12:17:50 pm
mindless

Best way to explain current state of DTV. Players are behaving just like bots, not using their brains at all. We can have a big map, we can be in the open, but fuck me if anyone will be smart enough to chose different s key route for his aggro'ed bag of bots. In the end bots will come to one place, because players don't think and will slaughter the players from all sides.
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: Patoson on March 21, 2015, 02:45:46 pm
Another example of the braindead level DTV has reached. This time they decided to make the shieldwall much closer to the bot spawn, instead of in a line with the ballista platform, but it's basically the same. Some players are forced to leech because there's no space for everyone to fight.

(click to show/hide)

In the next video, you'll see that, while I was uploading the previous one, I rejoined the server to find out that it's playable (the way it's played) with a ping over 600. The rest of the video shows the dullness of most of the maps.

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

The old village maps were quite open, like old Battle maps, and you could play DTV as if it were Battle, but against a noob mob that always charges in tight formation and chambers a lot. You could argue that's dull too, but I liked it. For a lot of us who have enjoyed the old DTV, this new rotation consisting of 99% tiny maps made for skill-less "tactics" is boring and frustrating when you are forced to either leech or leave the server because there is no room for everyone to fight, or you get bored after "x" rounds standing still and spamming overhead.

Sea Raid and Thermopylae (those shown in the videos) are the biggest grindfest cases in DTV now, and the xp and gold gain in those maps is insane.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: POOPHAMMER on March 23, 2015, 06:17:11 am
Quote from: Patoson on March 21, 2015, 02:45:46 pm
Another example of the braindead level DTV has reached. This time they decided to make the shieldwall much closer to the bot spawn, instead of in a line with the ballista platform, but it's basically the same. Some players are forced to leech because there's no space for everyone to fight.

(click to show/hide)

In the next video, you'll see that, while I was uploading the previous one, I rejoined the server to find out that it's playable (the way it's played) with a ping over 600. The rest of the video shows the dullness of most of the maps.

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

The old village maps were quite open, like old Battle maps, and you could play DTV as if it were Battle, but against a noob mob that always charges in tight formation and chambers a lot. You could argue that's dull too, but I liked it. For a lot of us who have enjoyed the old DTV, this new rotation consisting of 99% tiny maps made for skill-less "tactics" is boring and frustrating when you are forced to either leech or leave the server because there is no room for everyone to fight, or you get bored after "x" rounds standing still and spamming overhead.

Sea Raid and Thermopylae (those shown in the videos) are the biggest grindfest cases in DTV now, and the xp and gold gain in those maps is insane.

(click to show/hide)

Yeah, DTV is a real shitshow these days. But I think these words are falling upon deaf ears anymore.
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: Switchtense on March 23, 2015, 06:00:33 pm
Basically too lazy to read the previous posts, so I might say something that has already been said.

Came back to cRPG last friday after a few months of not even having looked at it.

I like Siege and Battle a whole lot more than DTV, but I play DTV when the other servers are empty or to just relax and have a giggle.

The exp boost made it much more enjoyable, because it feels like I am actually accomplishing something when playing DTV, whereas before the exp boost it would take 5 hours to gather 100k exp. (Attention: Exaggerating)
But the last 2 days I caught myself playing more DTV than Siege/Battle cause of the huge exp gain advantage, even though I don't enjoy it as much.

Nerfing the exp back to pre-patch would be a mistake as Pato mentioned, instead increasing the other game mode's exp gaining rate would draw people like me to Siege/Battle more often again, while not nerfing the exp gain from DTV back to shit.


New players would level up faster, the veterans are already a freaking high level so it would not affect them as much as the new ones.
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: War_Ferret on March 24, 2015, 04:27:52 am
Is it a fact that DTV rewards are higher than in PVP modes? I don't think so.
With the new honor system, you just have to land 2 or 3 hits per round and get an additional 50k+ xp (incl. gen bonus) and 900 gold.
And rounds are much shorter than in DTV.
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: W0LF on March 24, 2015, 12:00:57 pm
You do know that the 50k xp isnt real right?
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: War_Ferret on March 24, 2015, 03:53:25 pm
Quote from: W0LF on March 24, 2015, 12:00:57 pm
You do know that the 50k xp isnt real right?

wut?
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: W0LF on March 24, 2015, 03:58:17 pm
Look on the site to see your real xp amount the ingame xp is wrong due to the xp bug
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: War_Ferret on March 24, 2015, 07:10:13 pm
Hmm, ok. Didn't know that. They should just fix it then, and rewards will be properly adjusted.
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: pepejul on March 24, 2015, 07:52:14 pm
Nerf gold and XP and then buff them !
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: Patoson on March 28, 2015, 10:31:07 pm
I've added another option to "remove DTV" and reset the votes. I've changed my mind and agree, more and more, with people who want DTV to be removed and make everyone play "real" game-modes. I agree both in the challenging aspect of the game-modes and in the detriment of the servers' population.

I hate to see that cRPG has come from my favourite PvP mod for Warband to become a boring game-mode full of leechers and nervous people. If you can't help getting mad in a game, at least play a real game-mode where you can't leech so easily.
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: Falka on March 28, 2015, 10:46:15 pm
Quote from: Patoson on March 21, 2015, 02:45:46 pm
(click to show/hide)

All praise Fips, the great thinker, who introduced new "no more exploiting" DTV.
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: POOPHAMMER on March 29, 2015, 09:50:48 am
DTV needs to go. This is not what cRPG was designed for. Why give more reward for people killing bots? Some may argue it is to encourage new platyers, but new and old only play it because battle/siege is so unrewarding in comparison. Why not encourage people to play the real mode? Maybe give xp/gold the old system (proximity) on top of the ticks. So if you were close to a kill, give a bonus xp gold for that kill. This would not only discourage leeching in battle, but even if you are leeching and near a kill you provide a distraction for good players to kill a peasant, while the players can kill the other. Maybe I am just dumb, but I think adding the old proximity gold/xp to reward people who support the kill will not only will help with the DTV issue, it will actually make you feel like you are rewarded for being the stabbing pike guy or the backup slash that resulted in a kill, feel like you actually are being rewarded for playing.

I like the XP/gold ticks, but I feel like we should also be rewarded for being in the range of the kill, because just being near an enemy, having you being one more person to look out for, is contributing.
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: ecorcheur_brokar on April 01, 2015, 05:57:53 pm
DTV reward should get that big only for the two last waves as a major reward for managing to finish it completly (and that doesnt happen often).

Otherwise, reward for the other waves should go back to their previous version.
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: NJ_Legion_Icedtea on April 01, 2015, 06:40:55 pm
Removing DTV surely would do no good? Yes some people would then switch to play siege or battle, but only increasing their population by a max of 15 each. And some may not even switch to the other game modes.

Honestly if you want me to start playing battle again I would like the attitude to the mode to change, more formations, group fighting etc. which I agree is hard for such small server populations. As for siege I personally just find too many maps which I don't like playing on.
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: Patoson on April 01, 2015, 07:42:35 pm
Well, I've come to hate DTV, because of the new rotation, the new absurd rewards, which make it more of a grindfest. Instead of a pseudo-battle mode where you fought bots instead of players, now it's just a mode where it takes 0 skill to win and still people bitch all the time about stupid things.

By removing DTV, cRPG would just be like during its origins (a "PvP" mod), and my best memories of this mod are from battle or siege, not DTV.

You could argue that it's a good game-mode for beginners, but so are the other game-modes. Sure, it's tough for a beginner to fight veteran players, but so is in every other online game, and, the harder it is, the faster you learn.

And if it takes away players from the other game-modes, and balance in the mod is directed towards "PvP", then DTV makes even less sense.
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: pepejul on April 03, 2015, 01:45:30 pm
I totally agree.... just 2 guys with mauls guarding an gate and killing 50 bots each hitspamming like tards isn't a game I want play to....
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: Uther Pendragon on April 03, 2015, 01:59:43 pm
Throw out the Fips' maps, half the rewards. No patches or fixes will ever change the people's greed so as long as eu7 is more profitable than other servers, they'll just go and play there.

Removing the retarded maps that require 0 thinking to advance and reducing the gold and exp gain should fuel some players back to eu1/eu2.

But if you think removing DTV altogether will fix anything, then you're fucking delusional.
Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: Leshma on April 03, 2015, 02:44:07 pm
Make bots stronger hitting but slower and with less HP. Open maps mean nothing if you can't utilize them, because you need a lot of AGI to be able to s key bots. When you have too much AGI you don't deal enough damage to bots. DTV is very build restrictive if we're talking about proper way of playing it.

Few years ago I could s key a train of bots into tight spaces and never get crowded. Some may find that lame but it is way more fun than staying in shieldwall or some tight space.

If you think bots would be too easy if you lower their level or change build, then give every bot skill set like those special bots have (chambering, feinting). But these current bots are lame, can survive ton of hits and are too fast. They aren't what I would call challenging, they are boring just like fighting a queen with ton of HP in some jRPG game.

Title: Re: Adjust xp & gold gain
Post by: Linza on April 10, 2015, 11:46:36 am
Quote from: Leshma on April 03, 2015, 02:44:07 pm
Make bots stronger hitting but slower and with less HP. Open maps mean nothing if you can't utilize them, because you need a lot of AGI to be able to s key bots. When you have too much AGI you don't deal enough damage to bots. DTV is very build restrictive if we're talking about proper way of playing it.

Few years ago I could s key a train of bots into tight spaces and never get crowded. Some may find that lame but it is way more fun than staying in shieldwall or some tight space.

If you think bots would be too easy if you lower their level or change build, then give every bot skill set like those special bots have (chambering, feinting). But these current bots are lame, can survive ton of hits and are too fast. They aren't what I would call challenging, they are boring just like fighting a queen with ton of HP in some jRPG game.


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