3/ Create a second wpf spread for ranged, that is two times (or something around) weaker than the melee spread. For example, a guy gainning like 40 wpf in one ranged spec should get 20 wpf in melee ones, or something around, to enforce fighting instead of kiting, and allowing more huscarl builds (shielder + throwing).
People didnt leave due to annoying archers, they left because the teams were unable to hold together, which ended up by being killed by archers at the end of the round. Blaming archery is just the easy solution for people who dont want to put a lot effort into the topic.
...wants a plain ranged buff and masks it as "I have the best of the mod at heart and want people to come back" - bullshit.
Ranged was one of the major factors that drove people away in the first place. Algarn and his exploiting build before the patch is one of the directly responsible persons.
Obviously just the wrong persons left...
To San :
Changes you are going to make seem to be fair, but what do you think about making pikemen and spearmen better for new players ?
l.
If the players won't accept to use teamwork, then there is literally nothing that can make this mod better, simply because the players refuse to do their part.
I think melee only needs difficulty changes, mostly on the armor front.
Ranged was one of the major factors that drove people away in the first place. Algarn and his exploiting build before the patch is one of the directly responsible persons.
I left Battle in late 2012 because of archers. A lot of good city/village maps were removed because someone thought that every map had to be open plains with no sufficient cover. I know few who left for the same reason but didn't like siege enough to migrate there.
except for some damage on the pike/longspear which I'm hesitant and I trust someone like Gurnisson's opinion about it.
Reducing the price would be acceptable I guess. Since it does not affect the gameplay.
But new players would still glance 7/10 stabs. And 2 of those 3 hits would be teamhits.
Especially the Pike, but also the Long Spear, require very well timed stabs to hit the opponent efficiently. On top comes abusing of mechanics. Turning or tilting into the stab to land the hit, whereas a normal frontal stab would glance. Footwork is important as well to get stabs in and not glance.
While at the same time they can grab a 2h or Bardiche, run in with some armour and swing like a nuthead and get a kill or at least do some damage.
So I am not sure reducing the price will make any difference in players using Long Spear and Pike. The only thing would be making them 2 slots. But then every 2h hero would grab a Long Spear or Pike.
1/ reduce a lot throwings price, and more generally, all ranged items's prices, to make it more affordable for new players.
- buff ranged in the ways I listed in my post (hate me for that, I have an opinion that differs from yours).
2/ increase the randomization into ranged items (pin point accuracy jarids/longbow that don't kill in one headshot is exactly the opposite of common sense if you ask me). For that, a plain buff of damage would be fine (damages automatically reduce accuracy, that's the objective). Ranged players aren't snipers you know, but throwers, archers, and crossbowmen. They need to KILL, not to fire accurately some ridiculously weak sticks to the ennemy.
3/ Create a second wpf spread for ranged, that is two times (or something around) weaker than the melee spread. For example, a guy gainning like 40 wpf in one ranged spec should get 20 wpf in melee ones, or something around, to enforce fighting instead of kiting, and allowing more huscarl builds (shielder + throwing).
- Buff support melee classes, like pikers and spearmen. Decrease a lot the prices of the 1d weapons, add some of them, make them easier to handle for new players (improve stabbing with those slighly maybe ?) and maybe do kinda the same for 2d weapons (not talking about the high tier ones like the english bill, in fact, there should be some kind of axes used as a 2d weapon). -> If you're too weak, either take a shield or a pike, and stay near of your mates, or take ranged weapons, and skirmish/give support at the cost of your melee ability. To avoid them being overused because OP, buff slighly other weapons directly on their fighting abilities. No need to explain it's to make it having more benefits for old players that know how to play. I'm not that sure about this being needed, but I believe new players also go support.
- To counter the pike and 1d spears buff, buff again cavs. Even thought I really dislike cavalrymen, they're a part of the battlefield, and if everything is getting buffed, they deserve some love too. Horse archery, horse crossbowmen and particularly horse throwers need to be unfucked. The horse ranged should play a support role, definitely, but they should be way less accurate than the foot version of the class (except for horse throwing, which is actually hard, and inaccurate).
- Buff damages of medium tier weapons (thinking of the simple sword and the likes), they're completely useless, even at +3 rank.
- Level 36 should be the new level for characters at 37. This will make OP builds become less OP, simple as that. Some builds are viable only if they are level 37, otherwise, they always lack something (athl, if, or whatever).
A dev would need to do this. I think Harald did a great job, but there are still people who need help creating an account and getting properly started.
- Even if you disagreed with the things I did write, you will however agree on the fact new players should be helped even more : give them the website adress when they log in, and improve the website by adding tips, builds, and listing the characteristics of each build.
Can't tell, but maybe an increase of the zone of damage peak of the two handed polearms's stab (not the 2hs, I meant the pike/longspear stabs) would make it easier to use for new players. But I don't think balancers will forcefully agree...
Don't tell me dividing price by 1.5 or 2 on the longspear/pike to make it a common infantry weapon is a crime. This kind of weapon would be one of my last choice, since you barely get any cav with that (they all avoid you like plague), there's almost no chance to win a duel with it, and even less chance to be alive after a 2v1. Oh, and it's 3 slots. Giving a nice chance to new players to support their team with those items is the way to go, instead of giving them useless 1h swords they don't know how to operate.
Depends to what you consider expensive and cheap. As a poor player, I'd consider an expensive gear by a final repair cost above 1500 gold. A pike/longspear isn't supposed to cost 5500g (383g).Repairing the pike is quite cheap actually. Even for me and I am constantly broke as fuck :D
I'd see the price around 3000g to be honest, seeing how underused these weapons are.They are underused because they are more difficult than all those 4 directional weapons where you just have to swing and hope for a nice hit.
And also, 6000 gold for pieces of wood with a pointy end is just too much, war spear and red tassed spear should cost around 5000. Remove 1 damage if you have to, but a spear is still a damned piece of wood, and isn't supposed to cost as much as a sword, and isn't supposed to wound that much on swings (LiveyourLife aka Hearst is the perfect example that war spear should use less blunt damage).The material of the weapon shouldn't matter. Otherwise people will say "Make Scotttish Halberd 2k gold. It only is a wooden stick with a chunk of metal on one end!"
Depends to what you consider expensive and cheap. As a poor player, I'd consider an expensive gear by a final repair cost above 1500 gold. A pike/longspear isn't supposed to cost 5500g (383g). I'd see the price around 3000g to be honest, seeing how underused these weapons are. And also, 6000 gold for pieces of wood with a pointy end is just too much, war spear and red tassed spear should cost around 5000. Remove 1 damage if you have to, but a spear is still a damned piece of wood, and isn't supposed to cost as much as a sword, and isn't supposed to wound that much on swings (LiveyourLife aka Hearst is the perfect example that war spear should use less blunt damage).
You are thinking with too much realism in mind.
Actually, if having some realism implemented could enforce teamplay on servers instead of massive yolo charges on half empty servers, I'm proud to be thinking with too much realism in mind. Would accept being killed in one hit if I could kill someone with three arrows.
Nothing will enforce teamplay, and teamplay doesnt really work without communication on TS. Yolocharges are fine by me as long as people stick in a clump. Also it sounds like you are saying that realism would bring more people to the mod which probably isnt true. And reducing prices on pikes and nerfing sideswings on spears probably wont bring any people in any way, and isnt needed for balance.
Why players should try to understand mechanics [of those classes] and get better if they can cry on forums to get them nerfed to ground ?
I think archers are still fine, they definitely arent terrible. You want people to cover you the entire round? just learn how to fend off enemies instead, stop relying on others. Archers dont require protection, just positioning and decent melee skills.
Yolo charge is the only viable thing you can do with no preparation time and no people on any sort of voice com.