cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: spiritus on December 24, 2014, 11:42:57 am
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What would make you come to back to CRPG? If anything about the game could be changed, what would you change?
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I am just looking for that minimum 50 population on siege, which was what one would definitely get in the late afternoon. People have stopped playing due to reasons like new games, boredom, incoming holiday etc.
I am so tired of this game too. I am tired of raging at my old friendchers or other classes. Still, I know I can always have fun with a good population. That is not what we get anymore. Nowadays, 30 is the maximum number you usually get on siege. I don't like battle, duel or DTV. So, it is all pretty much over for me.
Summary: I am not even gone yet. I just need the old player numbers to keep playing.
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After seing how lax attitude on native server is about everything, would like some of those in cRPG as well. First, no more additional gold sinks (upkeep can stay, but auctions, taxes and other crap should go). No more artificial limiters of any kind, neither limiting original game mechanics or 20% XP loss or 7 day free respec, stuff like that are baggage of the past. Further tuning of levels, less grind, toned down stats to reflect native a bit more. Loom bonuses to be completely removed or rebalanced so they have downsides too.
Basically I want more stable native, with much larger item pool to choose from, with perma chars, but without all the cRPG downsides. And I want people to actually play it, like 100 at any given time like it is in native. Until Bannerlord or Melee comes out (hopefully without all the horrible cRPG design decisions).
And bring back deployable ladders, add new and awesome maps people on native play, remove many map restrictions (Mustikki, Ozin and Fips ruined maps with ghost fences). Add more items (Battle of Europe has many unique parts, not sure they are free to use in other mods). Also add boats and baloons, they are fricking awesome!
People have stopped playing due to reasons like new games, boredom, incoming holiday etc.
That has to be the biggest bullshit excuse that runs around here. No, no and no. Yes some people got bored but sign of a healthy game is influx of new players. There are thousands of noobies connecting to most popular native servers daily. They don't play for long, but there's a ton of them so servers are always full. Native is older than cRPG and has less incentive to play compared to cRPG (has no grind). Yet it is very much alive, unlike cRPG.
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Well, that is not my excuse. It is my guess only. As I said, I am still around. I haven't quit due to any of that yet.
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I know, but people around here like to say how game is old and that's the reason for low population, completely ignoring that mod design is bad and that is the actual reason alongside awful marketing (not the strongest side of donkey crew as we could see).
It is easier for native to get players because that is the default option when you buy the game, but cRPG used to have more players than native at one point and there were many servers. What we call EU1 today is actually EU4 of the past with same old players that played there (Fin's DoGs, SoA, Dolphin, only Zlisch is missing). What we called EU2 two weeks ago (while there were still players) was 3rd choice siege server (both EU2 and HRE were near full at that time). EU1 had 100+ players, 50 during the whole night. Rageball was full, we had two full DTV servers. Just a reminder for those who forgot what cRPG used to be and what has become.
Certain devs used to mock other games and even native for their lower population. Blast from the past, as they say.
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There has been no sizeable influx of new players, because of one simple reason I believe. That is the difficulty of it all or having to start as a peasant and climb all that steep ladder in painful agony.
I remember my first days. I was a bloody butcher in native. I could excel over anyone with any class (seriously, my old friendcher included). Then I came here. My spirit was crushed in, say, not maybe the first day but within the first week of playing. I was being slapped around like a beggar's ball of snot and it was pretty impossible to buy whatever gear I wanted to equip. I had to struggle with upkeep for a very very long time. Once I tackled it, the immense challenge of seasoned players was still there. Honestly, there were good people in native, but by that time I had never seen players as top-notch as crpg ones.
In brief, I can't even remember how many times I thought of quitting for good, uninstalling and never looking back. At this time, I could have been one of the native spergs who love to badmouth crpg instead of the zealot I am. I have no idea how I kept going or how I never quit. But I do understand why others do so within probably 1 or 2 weeks of time playing crpg.
You may disagree. But I have been there. I experienced all of this first hand. Thus I symphatize with newbs who have given this a chance but given up in the end.
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Amnesia might make me come back - that is, losing all my experience and skills and thousands of hours put into this thing.
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Having decently populated servers would make me play more than 1h a week.
To have decently populated servers ... well, it's too late I believe.
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Buff shields
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undo every single change tydeus has implemented.
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I just want loomable Smoke Bombs
:D
Or actual bombs like good old time
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A last "goodbye"-event before switching to the first day of M:BG
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I wouldn't even change anything, I'd just somehow force other people to play so I'd have folk to kill.
The ONLY real reason besides my laptop being completely shithouse (still able to run cRPG barely) is that not enough people are playing. If the server population is sub-30 bare minimum, it just ain't fun for me.
the mod is ded because people don't play, and people don't play because the mod is ded.
RIP
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Amnesia might make me come back - that is, losing all my experience and skills and thousands of hours put into this thing.
Agreed, if i had to relearn all there is to the combat mechanics and figure out strategies, trying out fresh new builds never seen before... that'd be a dream. A new game even, oh M:BG i want you in my steam library.
Also i never really quit but what i think would bring back players and maybe new ones would be reworking ranged to be the scrub players choice of feeling like he's doing something. Im for high damage but lower ammo counts etc, or just more damage in general. I just respecced archery so need try it out further, but for xbows it seems they just hit too weak to actually do anything with the time it takes to reload and all. Melee decides everything on the servers, and if you arent already good at melee you probably wont catch up unless you have a very strong will of getting better. And as it seems, new players dont give 2 fucks about melee, its all about shooting.
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I came back as soon as eu1 has more than 50 players.
Get rid of the loomshit would be nice too. but I think there is no resurection for this mod.
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more 2010/2011 style crpg, forget trying to make it particularly realistic, BRING BACK LADDERS
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more 2010/2011 style crpg, forget trying to make it particularly realistic, BRING BACK LADDERS
The thing with ladders is that they make archers invincible except to other archers. Not sure how this would work now with flags popping up but generally players are too impatient and stupid to wait so theyll charge ranged no matter what. Ladders needs to be implemented with some tweaks like making them unkillable but even then they could be abused for other things...
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I know, but people around here like to say how game is old and that's the reason for low population, completely ignoring that mod design is bad and that is the actual reason alongside awful marketing (not the strongest side of donkey crew as we could see).
It is easier for native to get players because that is the default option when you buy the game, but cRPG used to have more players than native at one point and there were many servers. What we call EU1 today is actually EU4 of the past with same old players that played there (Fin's DoGs, SoA, Dolphin, only Zlisch is missing). What we called EU2 two weeks ago (while there were still players) was 3rd choice siege server (both EU2 and HRE were near full at that time). EU1 had 100+ players, 50 during the whole night. Rageball was full, we had two full DTV servers. Just a reminder for those who forgot what cRPG used to be and what has become.
Certain devs used to mock other games and even native for their lower population. Blast from the past, as they say.
You are completely ignoring that the stream of new players has always been very small and that the server population of 2013 consisted of many of the same players that played in 2012, many of the players in 2012 were the same players as in 2011 and the same for every year. cRPG's server population has always been disproportionate to it's supporting playerbase, with extremely active players that play a lot and play for a lengthy period of time. A side effect of this is that the average player skill has consistently risen, making the game less accessible even though the grind got more and more accessible. From the start of 2013 and onwards this mod got hard to enjoy to anyone that isn't a hardcore gamer or a quick learner, regardless of any design choices. The mod is dying now because the players that started playing in 2010-2012 have been playing this shit for a minimum of three years and after that there haven't been a lot of new players that managed to stick around.
We oldmy old friends got too good for newmy old friends and then we oldmy old friends got bored. It is as simple as that.
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Jeez, it's not your fault but i really find the 'crpg players are just too good' argument to be the most arrogant-sounding thing in the world. I dont especially think it's true but that depends on what you're definition of 'skill' is and it's not something we'll ever agree on.
Well its not like theres multiple defenitions of skill, there are multiple areas to be skillfull in and the average crpg player is probably well over the skill level the average native player has. Such as the average awareness, blocking skill, footwork, teamwork etc..
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Jeez, it's not your fault but i really find the 'crpg players are just too good' argument to be the most arrogant-sounding thing in the world. I dont especially think it's true but that depends on what you're definition of 'skill' is and it's not something we'll ever agree on.
I'll put it in terms you might agree to then, it really changes nothing to the argument. The ability of cRPG players to exploit the mechanics to their most retarded extent has made the game very unaccessible to anyone but the most scrubby elitist pricks that are willing to learn to do the same my old friendgotry.
It's not about me being proud of how awesomely skilled cRPG players are, it is about the logical scenario that unfolds when a small community consisting of players that are very active and are active for a long time, share the same few servers with any potential new players. Native still has servers which are at the 2011 cRPG skill level and remain attractive to new players to date, partly because few people are abusing the mechanics to the max. Case and point: NeoGK Siege, the most populated Native server.
Imagine Counter-Strike having a single server on which everybody would play, surely the fact that the top 5% can utterly destroy anyone who just starts playing would affect it's attractiveness to more casually oriented newcomers. Surely the community on this server would condense into a very small and highly skilled group with little fresh blood. If these players get bored after 2000-4000 hours, wouldn't you say the game died of old age for them, instead of the latest patch which changed the recoil pattern of the 4th bullet of the AK slightly? Of course some of these old players will blame this change as the reason for them quitting, but they have suffered through worse design in periods before with a smile on their face, because they were less bored. However, if Counter-Strike would have other servers with mechanics that make them unattractive for the top players, then the game would continue to refresh its stock and offer a place for new players to learn the game at their own enjoyable pace.
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cRPG players do seem more skilled than most native players. However when I enter cRPG server after playing native I'm able to pull some amazing things. Just like when you come to EU1 after dueling on EU3 for awhile. That is because native combat is much faster and footwork have bigger impact because everybody is slow (dazzling forward/backwards with 10 athletics isn't good footwork, any fool with such build can do it).
Would like to see more even cRPG, like native is, to be able to claim that cRPG players are in fact the more skilled ones.
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I agree with Teeth's representation. Main problem is that you need a constant flux of fresh players to stay alive in the long run. At times the hill has been very steep to climb for new players. The game felt rigged. Still think cRPG is way superior to the horrible OPness of ranged and cav and certain weapons in Native. In some ways it is milder and less random than native.
What native does however is neutralize skill with the most OP weapons. With any long 2h or pole you will get shot to pieces in a matter of seconds. cRPG rewards skill and understanding the mechanics much more. You need to be quite decent to get anything done, which is not good for noobs.
It's a horrible dilemma. On one hand, you want an easy class to play for noobs (ranged, shield?), but how to make it so that it won't get its power abused to shit by the pro's?
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Thomek, while you're here want to congratulate you on top job you did with M:BG Kickstarter. Someone might snatch you from chadz's hands :wink:
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Basically, there should be some classed that everyone can go for, that will deal sufficient damages, easy to understand, but that got limited power -> easy, but not abusable by old players, that should go for something else more rewarding. These classes in history, normally were either pikeman/spearman or persons with bows, crossbows, or with throwing weaponry, affordable for everyone (ok, not for the crossbow part, a peasant cannot afford an arbalest), and extremely simple to use, in all cases (what is hard in staying behind real melee players to give them support and cover ?).
How to make it rewarding for new players and non abusable by old ones ? Don't know at all about that. Some builds, with high level, tend to become extremely over powered (either some insanely fast guy, dealing utterly retarded damages because bonus speed, or some 27/21 build, one hitting people and tanking everything).
Ranged should be some kind of rewarding for new players because a lot of players played this class in native, it's THE meta class you played in singleplayer/multi at the beggining. To illustrate, in cRPG, throwers got low ammo, but should deal normally huge damage (taking a jarid in the head shouldn't let you alive, come on...). Everything should be done with this class to be playable by new players, but ... atm, it's expensive, heavy (retarded weight on stacks), and "eats" your melee ability, unless you're high level. The fact throwing was historically very used in armies by peasants is explainned by the simplicity of the work : you come, you throw some lances/axes, and you charge and die for your motherland. Simple, but quite limiting compared to archery and crossbowmen, that got more durability, shooting from far and staying in safe zones controlled by the team, and aiming skill is setting the skill ceilling a bit higher compared to throwing, since you know you won't 1 or 2 hit kills quickly (with arbalest, a missed shot can be fatal, with a bow, a missed shot is almost nothing, but you need more than 4 arrows to kill the medium armored lad nowadays).
About spearmen, make it forgiving (increase the landing zone of stabs maybe ?), but buff the other melee classes at the same to avoid that a lot of old players go for these classes, that are less rewarding than shielder, 2h, polearmer, etc ...
TLDR : Reduce ranged's weapons's price (make it affordable in this order : throwing, archery, crossbows). Then, buff throwing damages and make it more randomized (if you have aiming skills, you'll go archer or crossbowman), and buff support melee classes in a way or another (reduce greatly the price, make stabbing a bit easier to handle, and increase the variety of 1d and 2d weapons, put some with low price filling their own niche), but buff all damages of melee weapons to avoid having a shitload of pikemen and spearmen.
I believe it's imperfect as hell, but I think it must be reflected on, particularly on the melee part. Oh, and sorry for the wall of text, but nothing is simple anymore.
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It's a horrible dilemma. On one hand, you want an easy class to play for noobs (ranged, shield?), but how to make it so that it won't get its power abused to shit by the pro's?
Just sharing my opinion on this line. It's cool if you disagree, I am not claiming to have any "wisdom".
- Crossbow is playable for beginners. However, they tend to overestimate the effectiveness of the Arbalest and underestimate the impact of Athletics and crossbow wpf, which leads to inaccurate aim, slow reload and the inability to move with the flow of the team on Battle. It takes several generations to realize that more wpf may be necessary, and other crossbows are more practical than the Arbalest for many reasons.
- Throwing has its place in hybrid builds, i.e. 5 PT and daggers. Hybrid means tradeoff though, and it makes the other aspect of the build worse than a dedicated choice. I would not recommend full thrower to any beginner, because the effective range is low and the melee capabilities without PD is nonexistent. It's hard enough not to glance off armor with an unloomed weapon and say 5 PS/50 wpf.
- I know most of you guys hate archery and say it's overpowered, but as a matter of fact, it is much weaker than it has been in any other era of cRPG. The quiver weight is back to the old maximum of 10, the ammo is lower than ever, the bow damage has been reduced by 2, the high-tier bows have a very curved trajectory. Most infantry players survive a headshot of any bow and arrow combination and any build because of their helmets, and obviously even more body shots are required to get a kill. Kiting is impossible due to quiver weight and ammo count. Even loomed arrows get a weight malus compared to unloomed arrows. Archery sure has the advantage of a high rate of fire and high accuracy over long distances, but it is harder than ever to play, and I never considered a beginner's class to the first place, because everybody aims, slashes, thrusts, runs or rides at you because you carry a bow. In my experience, archery is a class which requires quite some skill, and beginners won't have a chance to influence the battlefield when they play as an archer for their first generations at least. Of course, I am not saying it's bad like this, since I personally enjoy the challenge of playing archer on alts, but it does not seem like a beginner thing to me.
- Shielder seems to be the obvious easy-mode class because it does not require manual blocking. However, the difference between a loomed and an unloomed shield, and high and low shieldskill is huge. For beginners who aren't even proficient at moving the camera with their swing direction and decent footwork, the feinting time with shields takes forever. They hit the right mouse button when they see the attack coming, but the shield is never up in time to block the strike. Shields become reactive with higher shield skill, loomed shields, footwork and camera movement, but before that, it's really a terrible choice.
- Polearm and Twohand have the hindrance of manual blocking, but some builds can work around it. A Katana or Long Axe user does not have to block, it is enough to dodge the first enemy hit with high athletics, then spam. It won't work against good players, but other new players and DTV bots will certainly die to that. This is about as much as a realistically thinking beginner expects, so I'd say that Polearm and Twohand are more qualified to be beginner classes. Additionally, these classes provide a steep learning curve due to manual blocking, analyzing the battlefield quickly and teamplay with shielders, ranged and cavalry - like exploiting the chance to attack freely without worrying about blocking, optimal usage of projectile stun and stagger, and bumps, as well as the relative positioning in general. Of course, mastering both classes takes a long time and a lot of skill and good observation, but being okay at these is easier than for ranged players and shielders in my opinion.
One thing that's kind of terrible is that hybrid archer seems to be the most popular choice among beginners. Archers can't afford to waste a single skill or attribute point, yet new players assume that every class is perfectly viable, and so is hybrid archer. They fail hard, and that may be a reason while some people quit.
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Making archers with shields viable would be a nice move indeed. Didn't think about that to be honest.
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Making archers with shields viable would be a nice move indeed. Didn't think about that to be honest.
My implied suggestion would have been making beginners abstain from this combination by providing more on-website information on the mechanics etc., but just making the class viable would work too :lol:
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might start playing again if it was actually possible.. mounted throwing got 90% broken last patch.
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im only sticking around because it would be a waste to not use the thousands of hours i put in this shithole, and of the ''friends'' i made here
we should get a clanless or just a group TS for everyone on siege for ex, attacking and defending side, that would be great
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I would come back if my old friends still played. Good times. Its almost sad really. :cry:
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we should get a clanless or just a group TS for everyone on siege for ex, attacking and defending side, that would be great
wait, that´s actually a really good idea
a ts for siege and a ts for battle
...or a really bad idea?
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The 3 of us only found the mod because we wanted a coop version of M&B, Nazi-Zombies style, and DTV was great for that back in the day.
Same here, I only found c-rpg cause I watched some videos of DTV. I spent my first year on DTV server before I even touched Battle or Siege server(I got owned on every time I joined battle or siege)
The C-rpg team should really put a little more love into DTV, making new maps, new bosses, and maybe even adding rewards for kills or something(more exp each round, timelimit and exp gain should be adjusted, and maybe even a reward for beating the game...). I think putting some love into DTV will bring back some players, help current noobies and bring in some new players to c-rpg.
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Same here, I only found c-rpg cause I watched some videos of DTV. I spent my first year on DTV server before I even touched Battle or Siege server(I got owned on every time I joined battle or siege)
The C-rpg team should really put a little more love into DTV, making new maps, new bosses, and maybe even adding rewards for kills or something(more exp each round, timelimit and exp gain should be adjusted, and maybe even a reward for beating the game...). I think putting some love into DTV will bring back some players, help current noobies and bring in some new players to c-rpg.
If they fix the lag then most definitely.
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Same here, I only found c-rpg cause I watched some videos of DTV. I spent my first year on DTV server before I even touched Battle or Siege server(I got owned on every time I joined battle or siege)
The C-rpg team should really put a little more love into DTV, making new maps, new bosses, and maybe even adding rewards for kills or something(more exp each round, timelimit and exp gain should be adjusted, and maybe even a reward for beating the game...). I think putting some love into DTV will bring back some players, help current noobies and bring in some new players to c-rpg.
I hope this (http://forum.melee.org/scene-editing/feedback-on-various-current-dtv-maps/msg1106820/#msg1106820) helps improving DTV.
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Come back to crpg? No, not when the community is slowly moving on to other games. I intend to play forumrpg for a little bit until that dies off too.
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i dont agree that crpg players are more skillful
It's hard to discuss with you if you don't want to agree that veteran/hardcore players who spent in game 1000+ hours on average are better/more skilled than new/casual players with circa 100 hours. And it's blatantly obvious that almost all players in cRPG are veterans. Every time I join the game I know 3/4 of the players on the server, some of them since 2010, and those few who I don't recognize are mostly alts :wink: On the other hand on most populated servers in native every second player can not block consistently or can not block at all, so it's safe to assume they're newbies/casual players.
I ofc don't say that top tier native players are worse than top dogs from cRPG.
Teeth and Thomek, ye, new players need other new players to kill. Crpg is a mod and always will be a mod that favours the best gear, build and ping. 'Skill' is a factor, but if you consider that until very recently a new player does not have the physical ability to stagger someone in proper armour it's easy to see why so many quit,
Go online to find the 'optimal' builds and gear, grind some levels, max loom everything, know which mechanics actually differ from native, make sure your ping is nice. Now Average Joe Native is ready to compete with the top 90% of crpg. I consider those things to be the real 'skill-ceiling' of crpg,
That's ofc true that you need proper gear (not necessarily loomed) and build to compete on more or less equal footing with other players. But it was incomparably easier to start playing in cRPG 3-4 years ago than it's now, even though leveling was much harder, level difference was much bigger and looms were more powerfull. And that's because there were plenty of new players on the servers. I was awful in 2010 and early 2011 (not that I'm better now :wink:), hardly could block more than 2 swings in a row and still was able to get a fair share of kills, thanks to all these peasants populating cRPG at that time. These days your average joe who plays 5 hours per week will not meet another peasant, because among 50 players on all cRPG servers there are none of them. And that's the main reason why new/casual players won't play in cRPG, not gear or build.
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Gear players a significant role though.
A peasant can kill a fast agi whore that is wearing light gear, even if that guy is the most skilled player ever. But he simply cannot kill Butan, even if he is afk. Because he cannot deal any damage no matter what.
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A peasant would imply that he has retired though, because new players start at level 25 or so with a couple of looms and at that point they should be able to dish some damage out.
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These days most of us play like we've came straight from native neogk server. Due to lag, feints and intended chambers are nonexistent. Blocks are also scarce, because of server issues.
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Well, yes, lag is pretty awful, but for some reason on eu1 it seems to be worse.
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On DTV I have had no issues at all. But on EU2 and EU1 it was making it downright unplayable.
Problem with DTV is that it is boring as fuck after a round or two :D
Need Vivi and the good old maps back! Hell, even the shitty exploitable ones. Everybody and their mother is level45 nowadays anyway, that bit of exp you get from exploiting Rizi or Isti won't do shit anyway.
But these were the most fun maps, and the ones that brought people in!
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Probs still less exp than double exp servers anyway so who cares?
That as well.
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I would change the exp/gold system back to what it was, since the current system is so ridiculous. Maybe I could play also if something was done to the completely retarded repair/upkeep system which makes absolutely no sense at all... Why does my armor get blown into pieces after one round even when I'm headshotted from somewhere far away INSTANTLY dying? One thing also.. If the game even actually WORKED. Most of my friends cannot even start the game anymore after the great patching that has been made.
So yeah, if I remember correctly, after making any kind of suggestion here at the forum, I will be flamed to the deepest hell and most likely banned or something (I tried to suggest some casual things a year ago or something and this happened .. see my infame rating thing? all I have ever posted here has been SUGGESTIONS TO THE MOD.)... So I guess this is good bye. xD
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If fixing the items doesn't fix the lag when the next patch happens, I'll remove any of my changes that may add extra computation for the server for the patch after next. It's either the items, the HA change, or the servers themselves.
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I think chadz did that himself. I wouldn't mind joke items being added if they were super expensive (>20k) so they wouldn't be used too much.
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Nothin'
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I cant afford upkeep on my brynja, nordic helm as it is :( the thing i liked about the donkey hood was the low armour to stop tryhards using it
It'll have to have crappy stats then :p
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It did offer 5 head armor for 3 weight. Will always remember the headshots fest it was, even with reduced accuracy :lol:
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Buff Archery.
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I think i´d love to have a server that does siege/conquest/battle. Its just boring to play the same all the time and there are not enough people for all those servers.