cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Umbra on December 22, 2014, 01:25:55 pm
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If you attempt a kick after you stand up from a roll you will hunch over and fail like you did a nudge recently.
Its retarded. Please fix.
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roll
Its retarded. Please fix.
Fixed.
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about damn time you realise that nobody will fix anything in this mod
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I finally found it after a while. Wasn't in the first file I thought. I can remove roll's reliance on the nudge timer and the need to release attack and block if there's enough support (I would personally like it, lol).
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I finally found it after a while. Wasn't in the first file I thought. I can remove roll's reliance on the nudge timer and the need to release attack and block if there's enough support (I would personally like it, lol).
I support
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Do it bro, doesent make any sense currently
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I'm just not sure about this after a while. Won't trying to attack someone when they get up from a roll only to get kicked/nudged be a little aggravating?
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I finally found it after a while. Wasn't in the first file I thought. I can remove roll's reliance on the nudge timer and the need to release attack and block if there's enough support (I would personally like it, lol).
Duuud, seriously.. do it.
Rolls are amazing, only thing making them annoying is being inconsistent. About nudge and kicks not being usable after roll, i agree they should have separate cooldowns. I dont see why not, getting kicked going after someone who's rolling probably gets predictable and punishable after the first time you see it/gets hit by it.
Knockdowns are all bullshit, if you honestly dislike rolls then you should probably find new ways of killing more than hitting someone on the ground tbh.
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I like roll as an escape, but I think you should still get punished for a dumb roll. Invicibility frames into a kick/nudge is kinda... I could still be convinced though, I'm just hesitant.
For now, I just changed until someone yells at me to revert:
-Removing having to release left click/right click for roll to trigger, making it easier to input
-Roll has a separate cooldown to avoid being unable to roll twice, but it still triggers the nudge cooldown at the moment
-Reduced timing window from 5-45% to 0-30%
-Toned down the distance and "ghosting time" which I hope are invincibility frames
-Adjusted roll distance weight penalty and strength save
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Sounds like a good change! I know some people never got rolling to work so maybe now it's easier for them and new peeps. Not sure that timing window reduction was necessary tho.
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I think missing the timing if you're unprepared should be a thing, or kd weapons would be even worse with easier inputs. I can't test roll easily, so I hope it wasn't made too harsh.
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Roll is an already broken mechanic that should be tweaked or removed considering you are completely invincible during parts of it. Which, mind you, is the only time you're invincible in this mod. There is no reason to give roll abusers any concessions.
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Roll is an already broken mechanic that should be tweaked or removed considering you are completely invincible during parts of it. Which, mind you, is the only time you're invincible in this mod. There is no reason to give roll abusers any concessions.
Rolling is working as intended, nothing wrong with it. Bumps and knockdowns are bullshit, rolls make it possible to atleast not get hit by cheap swings on the ground if you are fast on the buttons. I dont really see how they would need tweaking except for making them work more reliably.
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I tightened the timing from 5-45% to 0-30% and that was too harsh. Next patch should have it at 0-40%.
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Is it the same window for getting knocked down by a horse and by a players weapon? I always seem to have a much easier time rolling from a horse knock-down but it could just be because I can see that coming
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Still not fixed, fix plox!
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I like roll as an escape, but I think you should still get punished for a dumb roll. Invicibility frames into a kick/nudge is kinda... I could still be convinced though, I'm just hesitant.
Do you not consider a shield user holding shield-block, jogging up to someone to perform a shield-bash, immediately following their opponents swing to be invincible(from the front) during the encounter?
Point is, there are other ways to achieve the same thing. One is a fighting style all it's own.
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I think there was a reason for not letting the window start at 0%. I forgot which. Maybe I was just watching athletics at that time and didn't like false starts.
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Do you not consider a shield user holding shield-block, jogging up to someone to perform a shield-bash, immediately following their opponents swing to be invincible(from the front) during the encounter?
Point is, there are other ways to achieve the same thing. One is a fighting style all it's own.
So, because bash is broken rolling should be as well? I'm not using either btw, don't like broken mechanics coded by an amateur (Paul).
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Me neither.
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So, because bash is broken rolling should be as well? I'm not using either btw, don't like broken mechanics coded by an amateur (Paul).
I like to see it as features. And you're probably not using any because you cant use them, or cant find uses for them.
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Not everyone's a min-maxer who uses anything and everything at their disposal to win at all costs
Oh god, i cant even tell if you are serious anymore, or just trolling. I guess i r8 8/8 anyways.
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I like to see it as features. And you're probably not using any because you cant use them, or cant find uses for them.
That is also correct. Roll works like special from Street Fighter games. Nudge is mapped at V and I can't reliably press that button. People who are playing with WSE2 can remap it. But still, as nice additional mechanic in theory nudge/bash is, on server that just another troll move. Nudge an enemy to make him fall from high place, nudge an enemy to make him fall in death pit, or in deep water. Nudge an enemy to get a free hit (shield bash). Nudge an enemy to knock him back few meters so you can continue to flee (archers love their nudge). It is infuriating move, top Krems qualität.
And we all know how it all started, derived from Rageball mechanics Paul was working on. Technical implementation isn't bad, but Paul didn't see or simply didn't care about consequences such mechanic will have on gameplay.
Maybe if damage from falling was like original devs coded it, just maybe, I would actually appreciate nudge/bash. But in a situation where on average I take tripple damage by falling from 4 meters than I usually take from even strongest foes, must say I utterly hate that mechanic.
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That is also correct. Roll works like special from Street Fighter games. Nudge is mapped at V and I can't reliably press that button. People who are playing with WSE2 can remap it. But still, as nice additional mechanic in theory nudge/bash is, on server that just another troll move. Nudge an enemy to make him fall from high place, nudge an enemy to make him fall in death pit, or in deep water. Nudge an enemy to get a free hit (shield bash). Nudge an enemy to knock him back few meters so you can continue to flee (archers love their nudge). It is infuriating move, top Krems qualität.
And we all know how it all started, derived from Rageball mechanics Paul was working on. Technical implementation isn't bad, but Paul didn't see or simply didn't care about consequences such mechanic will have on gameplay.
Maybe if damage from falling was like original devs coded it, just maybe, I would actually appreciate nudge/bash. But in a situation where on average I take tripple damage by falling from 4 meters than I usually take from even strongest foes, must say I utterly hate that mechanic.
I dont blame you, even Chase to this day never learned to roll. And while you may see nudging someone off of a wall as a troll move, i just think its clever use of it. Hell its one of its few actual uses. Other would be to open up a target for a teammate. It adds flavor to the combat where you kinda have to analyze your area and consider all the possibilities.
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Oh come on, nudge is a second favorite troll mechanic. After voice chat spam. Seems like everything that has been added to this mod in last two years was to please Fin and his band of retards.
I'm perfectly satisfied with mechanic provided by Taleworlds, thank you very much. Also roll is completely unnecessary. Knockdown weapons are there for a reason, there is no need for mechanic that will negate their effect. If you think they are too strong, adjust stats accordingly. For cav is even less needed, because cav is invulnerable for few seconds after the fall. Also fubar Warband physics can teleport them out of danger sometimes.
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Oh come on, nudge is a second favorite troll mechanic. After voice chat spam. Seems like everything that has been added to this mod in last two years was to please Fin and his band of retards.
I'm perfectly satisfied with mechanic provided by Taleworlds, thank you very much. Also roll is completely unnecessary. Knockdown weapons are there for a reason, there is no need for mechanic that will negate their effect. If you think they are too strong, adjust stats accordingly. For cav is even less needed, because cav is invulnerable for few seconds after the fall. Also fubar Warband physics can teleport them out of danger sometimes.
While nudge can be used for trolling, thats mainly against teammates or by nudge and running, which is pretty rare as a troll method but pretty common as an actual way of escaping danger.
I guess you werent one to vote for the removal of polestagger then, or 2h thrust, or changes in general tbh.
Rolls are amazing, knockdowns are bullshit, and you cant balance them by stats because its a free hit mechanic, reduced damage on weapons would have to make knockdown more reliable as the main source of damage with that weapon. And the best solution to knockdowns is not by removing them but by adding another mechanic that allows you to escape that free hit with some reactions. Polestagger was very similar, but was completely removed instead of staying but with something to counter it, kind of sad but at that time they probably didnt have much of a choice and coding anything similar to a roll, or a regain balance mechanic to stop the stagger would be too hard.
The biggest reason i love rolls though are because of bumps, bumps are unblockable knockdowns that are complete bullshit, it will fuck you up completely when outnumbered with just one hit. Now there is a way out, even if im bumped it doesnt mean im completely dead, allthough they will probably catch me at the position i roll into, its still better than no choice. Cav cant roll when dismounted btw.
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I guess you werent one to vote for the removal of polestagger then, or 2h thrust, or changes in general tbh.
No I wasn't for those changes tbh. Like it matters. This is free mod, things get done/changed if there is someone willing to do them. It's not like you can say: hey it would be awesome to do this.
Don't understand hate on knockdown or why it is banned in duels. Just like I don't understand duels in battle.
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I do my trolling in the servers, or against people who are genuinely trying to be unpleasant on the forum. I dont count this as either of those occasions.
But you said:
People can avoid using mechanics they dont like if they consider them cheap or broken. It's not the end of the world to lose a duel or multi because you played the way you wanted to play (especially since the grind has lost some appeal, i'm lvl 37 and acknowledge i'll never be lvl 38 so why do i care about mutli?). That's all i meant, just because someone doesnt play a certain way doesnt always mean they cant.
Sure, people decide if they want to use mechanics or not, in my eyes its just limiting yourself, deciding to not learn how to use them. Not only is it fun learning new things in an old mod, but it also improves your game. Min-maxing on the other hand is when you get to the point where you are using meta builds, strongest possible armor (ignoring any sort of fasion). When it starts to come down to the very minimal increases in stats. The people who enjoy this ofcourse will say the same to those who dont, why limit yourself.
Losing a duel because you decided not to use a mechanic, while to some it may not be a big deal, but the reason this game holds up in the long run to me is because im always becoming better and learning new things. Would i lose because i was lacking in one area i would focus on filling that gap. People dont try to win because of the multiplier, they try to win because its satisfying to play well.
Learning how to nail the roll consistently was amazing, because cav has always been such an OP class and fuck it was annoying to get bumped without being able to escape it.