cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Palurgee on August 04, 2014, 10:29:27 pm

Title: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: Palurgee on August 04, 2014, 10:29:27 pm
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All the 1handers are pretty similar and boring compared to the greatly diverse 2h and polearm departments, which have recently seen a number of buffs. Here are some suggestions to spruce the 1hs up.

1.) One-handed axe revamp. Make one-handed axes unbalanced and dramatically increase their speed, and reduce damage slightly. This will make the axe a more realistic and diverse weapon (currently the axes are just shorter military cleavers with Bonus vs. Shield)

2.) Make all 0-slot weapons able to be drawn with dagger quick draw. The short swords are very versatile, and simply having a faster speed isn't representing their versatility well enough. Dagger quick draw is also a pretty useless feature at the moment (very rarely used on the battlefield).

3.) Give falchions bonus vs. shield.

4.) Remove the brief stun when a projectile hits an undeployed shield.

5.) Let weight affect the size of the chamber window (not sure if possible with WSE2). The lighter the weapon, the larger the chamber window is. This could apply to all weapons but would buff the smaller one handed swords especially. This reflects the speed and frequency of parrying during a sword fight.
Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: Kafein on August 04, 2014, 10:32:31 pm
5.) Let weight affect the size of the chamber window (not sure if possible with WSE2). The lighter the weapon, the larger the chamber window is. This could apply to all weapons but would buff the smaller one handed swords especially. This reflects the speed and frequency of parrying during a sword fight.

Actually that would be a nice thing to give to 1h no shield users.
Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: San on August 04, 2014, 11:02:20 pm
1. Interesting. You're thinking of stats similar to the italian falchion, but with the unbalanced tag and bonus against shield? I'm not a fan of how unbalanced would work for 1h, but that would make them unique. I think axe damage wouldn't need to be reduced with the unbalanced tag.

2, 4, and 5: I don't think WSE is getting an update anytime soon.

2. I'm not really sure how great it would be for players to quickdraw a weapon capable of manual blocking. That takes away the risk of being caught unaware.

3. If this is implemented, they would just be axes and have to be balanced as such. The suggestion from number 1 would be the best way to set them apart, though.

4. In my biased opinion I would like this. Someone else would need to look at that with a more impartial outlook. I think it's fair to get stunned since you avoided damage with that passive block.

5. Finally the buff the hatchet deserves. Seriously though, I think the current window is pretty good. Even if it's increased, a mistimed chamber would be blocked so it wouldn't be OP if something like this was added for the lighter weapons. I definitely wouldn't want the heavier weapons to be worse at it, though.

Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: Phew on August 05, 2014, 06:32:09 pm
It's true, there isn't enough diversity among the 1h axes. The four most expensive axes each have their niche, and the Fighting Axe has one as well (longest 1h axe, and 2h mode). However, the Light 1h Battle Axe, One Handed War Axe, and One Handed Axe are all flat out outclassed by higher-tier axes. They should at least gain some speed so they have a purpose. Particularly, I love Final Boss' Heirloom texture for the One Handed War Axe, so I wish its stats weren't so deficient.

I also like the idea of Unbalanced 1h axes; sometimes you just want an axe that just breaks shields the fastest, so you don't care about feinting. I could see how the Iron axes could fit this niche, just add some damage to compensate.


Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: Joseph Porta on August 07, 2014, 12:00:22 am
My light one handed axe needs some love!

But really, it is currently the case that its not worth it in any way to pick a lower tier axe except for fabulousness, or a secondary mode. And besides that, I have always found the higher tier axes crap looking.
Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: Artyem on September 02, 2014, 07:45:55 pm
It's a bit of a necro, but I would like to say that throwing the unbalanced tag on all axes would be great.

Realistically, axes were made to be unbalanced, as the civilian purpose is to chop through wood.  The intended military purpose is to chop through shields, armor and limbs.  Just look at how an axe is designed, it has a large chunk of metal sticking off one side of a wooden shaft.  Something like this isn't going to be balanced, period.

In-game, as the OP stated, axes are basically shorter versions of other weapons with the ability to break shields.  Why not add some diversity and let them live up to their intended purpose?  I know that a decent chunk of the two handed axes were recently balanced, and are basically just cheap swords that can't stab.  One handed axes are good, but aside from breaking shields, what makes them different?

Mostly a complaint dealing with realism so it'll probably be disregarded, but whatever, I tried.
Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: BlindGuy on September 02, 2014, 07:59:55 pm
LOL yes lets make 1h axes unbalanced for realism: then we can add feinting with massive 2h axes and poleaxes instantly dislocate your wrists, cause realism, then we can arbalest reload times quadrupled, cause, your know, realism, then we can have any injury to a horse's legs cripple it, spewing the rider for, you know, realism, then we can have players intantly killed when their horses is killed and they smash their face into the floor at 30 miles an hour, for, you know, realism.

I could go on but 2 things to consider: 1/ This is game hugely unrealistic

2/  Im surprised when you cannot see the differences presented by 1handers, which include things from knockdown weapons which also have pierce damage WITHOUT changing modes, and swords that can outrange 2handers while at the same time are faster...
Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: San on September 02, 2014, 08:19:43 pm
I don't agree with increasing speed and reducing damage. They're axes FFS. They should have increased damage compared to swords, and if they get the unbalanced tag, increased damage and speed.
Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER on September 02, 2014, 08:43:41 pm
I want to see hammers, maces, picks, and axes used on NA_1 instead of just a whole bunch of s-keying stabbers and 105-length cav sword users.

Especially hammers. Hammers are cool as fuck.
Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: AwesomeHail on September 02, 2014, 09:21:41 pm
some of the 1hers Panos found, like machete n stuff. or the european cav sword :)
Hammers indeed look amazing, and I always wanted +3 miltary hammer, but no one was selling it :c

if the 1h axes get unbalanced and more speed, DRZ shielders will just all get an axe and spam everyone down? :|
Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: Larry on September 02, 2014, 10:18:34 pm
retard noises

And so the blind man wandered deep into the land of hyperbole, never to be seen again, though not missed, for his tendency to physically force words into others mouths was rather irritating.
Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: Artyem on September 02, 2014, 10:25:22 pm
LOL yes lets make 1h axes unbalanced for realism: then we can add feinting with massive 2h axes and poleaxes instantly dislocate your wrists, cause realism, then we can arbalest reload times quadrupled, cause, your know, realism, then we can have any injury to a horse's legs cripple it, spewing the rider for, you know, realism, then we can have players intantly killed when their horses is killed and they smash their face into the floor at 30 miles an hour, for, you know, realism.

Right, this is cRPG, where "realism" is everybody's trigger word and can't be mentioned without a ludicrous hyperbolic response.

I'm suggesting that we add a little more variety to the game.  Yes, there are knockdown and pierce weapons, but they all function exactly the same as every other weapon.  There's no real difference aside from reach and damage type.

Is it really so absurd to ask that a weapon with a specific design actually, I dunno, function as intended?

I don't agree with increasing speed and reducing damage. They're axes FFS. They should have increased damage compared to swords, and if they get the unbalanced tag, increased damage and speed.

I don't think speed or damage would need any major changes, perhaps some slight tweaks to make it work properly, but that's about it.  I just want axes to work like axes.


how about some sort of incentive to get people to use other weapons aside from swords?
Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: agweber on September 02, 2014, 10:32:37 pm
how about some sort of incentive to get people to use other weapons aside from swords?
How about exactly what San said? If you're adding a hindrance to the weapon class, you need to buff them to account for it. Even more so if people aren't using them because of better alternatives.
Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: Larry on September 03, 2014, 04:01:58 am
Right, this is cRPG, where "realism" is everybody's trigger word and can't be mentioned without a ludicrous hyperbolic response.

I'm suggesting that we add a little more variety to the game.  Yes, there are knockdown and pierce weapons, but they all function exactly the same as every other weapon.  There's no real difference aside from reach and damage type.

Is it really so absurd to ask that a weapon with a specific design actually, I dunno, serve that intended purpose?

I don't think speed or damage would need any major changes, perhaps some slight tweaks to make it work properly, but that's about it.  I just want axes to work like axes.


how about some sort of incentive to get people to use other weapons aside from swords?

Just predicting what your buddy there will see next and decide to comment on.
Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: Artyem on September 03, 2014, 04:02:32 am
I don't know if the unbalanced tag is really a hindrance, there are plenty of weapons that perform well with it.  But it definitely brings new advantages and disadvantages with it.
Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: Larry on September 03, 2014, 04:11:48 am
Now, silly smartassery aside, axes simply aren't balanced. They are literally designed to be unbalanced for extra chopping power. An axe is a pound or two of metal mounted on the end of a totally straight, balanced, wooden haft, like a teeter totter with a fat, bald headed serial killer on one end. Calling an axe balanced isn't just some sort of realism issue, It's literally saying you don't believe the laws of physics should apply.

Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: San on September 03, 2014, 04:42:07 am
I don't know if the unbalanced tag is really a hindrance, there are plenty of weapons that perform well with it.  But it definitely brings new advantages and disadvantages with it.

It makes feinting less effective. Not sure what advantages 'unbalanced' without any other change brings. That's why it would make sense to give them the unbalanced tag with power and speed increases. They deal less damage than a samurai katana.
Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: Kadeth on September 03, 2014, 05:24:59 am
It makes feinting less effective.

This, and it makes cancelling your attacks late in the animation impossible too. Making them unbalanced would be too much of a nerf imho.
Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: MURDERTRON on September 03, 2014, 07:03:14 am
It makes feinting less effective. Not sure what advantages 'unbalanced' without any other change brings. That's why it would make sense to give them the unbalanced tag with power and speed increases. They deal less damage than a samurai katana.

Not completely true.  You ever see Aries Gremory with a War Cleaver?  If you have WSE2 on, you will drop frames in the feints, and some swings will start earlier than they actually appear then correct what it displays, usually not in time to block.  It may not be the intended, but its very real.
Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: AwesomeHail on September 03, 2014, 07:21:23 am
i often get slashed by QQoray with his near to undetectable feint

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Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: Macropus on September 03, 2014, 07:58:24 am
i often get slashed by QQoray with his near to undetectable feint

(click to show/hide)
Such feints are quite easy to block once you get used to it, so even if its macros, it doesn't give too big advantage.
Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: Larry on September 03, 2014, 11:20:39 am
I agree with what San suggests, all axes unbalanced, but an increase in speed and damage. There simply has to be something to set them apart, otherwise axes are just swords that can't stab. Plus it's pretty fucking retarded to make axes and hammers and such as deft in the hand as a fucking sword. The point of balance on most medieval one handed swords is about 7 inches in front of the crossguard. The point of balance on an axe, is practically the axe-head.
Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: BlindGuy on September 03, 2014, 01:55:54 pm
We need different forum sections: 1 for discussion about balance etc, and another for fucking NA scrubs to spout bollocks, cause with 150 ping and my shitty FPS I still get huge KDR, when you guys as an average learn to play in NA, you can rejoin discussion.
Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: AntiBlitz on September 03, 2014, 04:00:02 pm
We need different forum sections: 1 for discussion about balance etc, and another for fucking NA scrubs to spout bollocks, cause with 150 ping and my shitty FPS I still get huge KDR, when you guys as an average learn to play in NA, you can rejoin discussion.

shut the fuck up..........
Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: Larry on September 03, 2014, 05:15:59 pm
We need different forum sections: 1 for discussion about balance etc, and another for fucking NA scrubs to spout bollocks, cause with 150 ping and my shitty FPS I still get huge KDR, when you guys as an average learn to play in NA, you can rejoin discussion.

I'm sorry, I fail to see how that bears any relevance whatsoever to the ongoing conversation. If you're done furiously stroking your E-cock we can get back to the discussion at hand.
Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: AwesomeHail on September 03, 2014, 05:28:48 pm
i want more 1hs
Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: Utrakil on September 03, 2014, 07:54:36 pm
An other way to bring more axes into battle would be to reduce their cost. so every 1Her can bring an axe as secondary weapon without loosing his income. I love to bring a sword and an axe but together with the shield there are 3 Items that break all the time compared to only one for most 2h/pole charakters.
Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: San on September 03, 2014, 07:56:28 pm
We have very cheap axes, they just kind of suck :)
Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: Kafein on September 03, 2014, 08:21:35 pm
We have very cheap axes, they just kind of suck :)

I do 4:1 with visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 (two handed axe, 700g), something I can only dream of with visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 (one handed axe, 1600g).
Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: Phew on September 03, 2014, 08:30:26 pm
We have very cheap axes, they just kind of suck :)

One Handed War Axe is probably my favorite of Final Boss' heirloom textures. Shame it has crap stats, because it is gorgeous:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: Vengt037 on September 03, 2014, 09:41:16 pm
It makes feinting less effective. Not sure what advantages 'unbalanced' without any other change brings. That's why it would make sense to give them the unbalanced tag with power and speed increases. They deal less damage than a samurai katana.

Power increases = makes sense. Speed increases = what? why?
Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: San on September 03, 2014, 09:56:49 pm
I was going off the original suggestion of + damage and speed, but you're right. They don't really need a speed increase vs a damage increase with unbalanced, but realistically I assumed axes swing quite fast. I personally think axes only need a cut buff without unbalanced.
Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: Algarn on September 04, 2014, 01:42:47 am
The nordic sword, the nordic simple sword, the one handed axe, the 1h war axe could get buffed, since they are useless, and I personally never see them on the battlefield. Every weapon should have a niche in this game, those simply don't stand for anything. Maybe the fighting axe could also get one more speed point with increased repairs, making it more comfortable to use.

OFF TOPIC, still related to balance :

Revert the speed buff for arabian cav sword, it got the same speed as the spathion/paramerion now. I don't understand why a cavalry weapon which does 36 cut as a masterwork item plus got 105 lenght and is cheaper than the spathion should get the same speed. Tried it yesterday, all I can say is that I don't understand why some cavs even bother to take a side weapon when they got the arabian cav sword.
Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: Kadeth on September 04, 2014, 05:59:32 am
We need different forum sections: 1 for discussion about balance etc, and another for fucking NA scrubs to spout bollocks, cause with 150 ping and my shitty FPS I still get huge KDR, when you guys as an average learn to play in NA, you can rejoin discussion.

you're literally the toughest guy on the internet
Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: San on September 04, 2014, 06:54:01 am
The nordic sword, the nordic simple sword, the one handed axe, the 1h war axe could get buffed, since they are useless, and I personally never see them on the battlefield. Every weapon should have a niche in this game, those simply don't stand for anything. Maybe the fighting axe could also get one more speed point with increased repairs, making it more comfortable to use.

I agree. I think they deserve better damage more than most other weapons.

Quote
OFF TOPIC, still related to balance :

Revert the speed buff for arabian cav sword, it got the same speed as the spathion/paramerion now. I don't understand why a cavalry weapon which does 36 cut as a masterwork item plus got 105 lenght and is cheaper than the spathion should get the same speed. Tried it yesterday, all I can say is that I don't understand why some cavs even bother to take a side weapon when they got the arabian cav sword.

Is 2-3 cm and +1-2 cut that great compared to -4-8p? It's not like ACS is hard, but I think the Paramerion/Spathion can match up if you want to stab once in a while. With good speed bonus, I don't see how 1-2 cut makes that much of a difference. I feel as though -1 speed on the ACS will just urge people to use the nearly identical Paramerion and arguably better HBS/LS + Shield. I agree that ACS definitely holds its own both on foot and horse, though. You really don't need a side weapon if you are used to fighting against faster weapons.
Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: BlindGuy on September 05, 2014, 12:25:06 pm
Maybe the fighting axe could also get one more speed point with increased repairs, making it more comfortable to use.


Dont touch my axe fucker.
Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: MURDERTRON on September 05, 2014, 07:25:12 pm
Make axes a few more points of cut damage, roughly the same speed as swords but unbalanced, and see if they pick up popularity.

The stab is the greatest weapon in the 1h arsenal, foregoing it needs to have better benefits.
Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: Phew on September 05, 2014, 07:50:33 pm
The most powerful 2h axe (Persian Battle Axe) gains 4 cut (9%) over the most powerful 2h 3d sword (war cleaver), while giving up 25cm of reach and 1 speed.

The most powerful 1h axe (Iron War Axe) gains 2 cut (6%) over the most powerful 1h 3d sword (military cleaver), while giving up 23cm of reach.

That's actually pretty balanced, although the 1h axes could all gain 1cut and it would still be balanced.


Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: Huscarlton_Banks on September 06, 2014, 11:14:59 am
The most powerful 2h axe (Persian Battle Axe) gains 4 cut (9%) over the most powerful 2h 3d sword (war cleaver), while giving up 25cm of reach and 1 speed.

The most powerful 1h axe (Iron War Axe) gains 2 cut (6%) over the most powerful 1h 3d sword (military cleaver), while giving up 23cm of reach.

That's actually pretty balanced, although the 1h axes could all gain 1cut and it would still be balanced.

I wouldn't give the reach differences the same weight, a length increase from lower lengths makes a much greater difference.

I think slightly more than +1c would be necessary to make them more than just a sidearm for breaking shields. They're nowhere near the same quality as Great Axe/Long Axe/any Bardiche.
Title: Re: Suggestions for adding diversity to/buffing the one-handers
Post by: Phew on September 06, 2014, 06:46:00 pm
I wouldn't give the reach differences the same weight, a length increase from lower lengths makes a much greater difference.

I think slightly more than +1c would be necessary to make them more than just a sidearm for breaking shields. They're nowhere near the same quality as Great Axe/Long Axe/any Bardiche.

Yeah, you have to get in kick range to use the 1h axes, which isn't true with 2h/pole axes. I always carry a +3 One Handed Battle Axe, but only use it as a shieldbreaking sidearm, because all the 2h/pole heroes just s-key then kick me if I try to use it against them. Nice in close quarters though.