cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Momo on May 19, 2011, 06:53:38 pm
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So we have this shielder problem, most of the players are using steel pick/huscarl or side sword/huscarl or mini axe/huscarl combo (I am not talking about stats now.). A am bored of this I can't see shit and I am dead in 1 hit to the head thx to the animation. So my idea is to make these weapons and shields 3 slot, no more best 1h with the most overused best shield (huscarl). A low/medium tier 1h with the best shield or a high tier 1h with a low/medium tier shield. No more best 1h best shield combo. This should make use of another weapons and another shields because we have a lot. With this I think we can avoid future stat nerfs. It's like the solved hybrid problem, no more best 2h user with best xbow.
About the delayers. Most of the people are very bored of them. Most of the archers doing this, running for 3 mins for nothing just to annoy people, and he knows that he is going to die. So my idea is to create a system if possible. This system is very simple. For example an 50vs50 battle, after like 3-4 mins the teams are like 18vs5. But then, because the loser team have only 5 living people, they lose 50% hp or die after 1 min. In most cases the 18 people will kill that 5 people so why not make this progess faster? This is also good againts leechers.
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Sorry but no because those 5 could kill them.
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So we have this polearm/2hander problem, most of the players are using danish/german greatsword or bec de corbin or poleaxes (I am not talking about stats now.). A am bored of this they feint like mad and i have to wait ages before i can attack back. So my idea is to make these weapons unbalanced, i mean they are huge and so. ...
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So we have this polearm/2hander problem, most of the players are using danish/german greatsword or bec de corbin or poleaxes (I am not talking about stats now.). A am bored of this they feint like mad and i have to wait ages before i can attack back. So my idea is to make these weapons unbalanced, i mean they are huge and so. ...
Nice trolling, but my idea is not trolling. You can't see those SMALL 1 handers because they are SHORT (feinting is pretty dangerous with them, but you have no chance when you can't see something). The poles/2h s are BIG enough and actually you can SEE them, if you get killed by a feint that's your own failness.
Edit: You can't see 1 handers because the shields are completely hide them even when they HIT. It's true only for the smallest and shortest ones.
Edit 2: Oh and Mala, I am using a Goedendag! :mrgreen:
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Sorry but no because those 5 could kill them.
Yeah, that's the only problem with this idea, when those 5 is skilled as fuck :mrgreen:. That's why I wrote "in most cases".
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Really the Huscarl isn't the problem that it used to be anymore. Shields across the board received a nerf to XP making them much easier to break with axes. With my German Poleaxe it doesn't take me many hits at all to break a Huscarl. This in turn requires shielders to have to manual block more if they want to have a shield at all. A fix which really improves the mod in my opinion. A shielder without his shield is not dangerous at all due to weapon stun. You can spam the shit out of them. So really, there isn't a problem. You just need to use the proper tool for the job.
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Really the Huscarl isn't the problem that it used to be anymore. Shields across the board received a nerf to XP making them much easier to break with axes. With my German Poleaxe it doesn't take me many hits at all to break a Huscarl. This in turn requires shielders to have to manual block more if they want to have a shield at all. A fix which really improves the mod in my opinion. A shielder without his shield is not dangerous at all due to weapon stun. You can spam the shit out of them. So really, there isn't a problem. You just need to use the proper tool for the job.
You know what's the problem? ALL of the 2h weapons with bonus againts shields are UNBALANCED, they are not worthy because of that while there are some BALANCED poles with bonus againts shields. I don't want to change my 2h style just because of that.
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Lets be fair Momo, you are a noob spammer who cant parry but you get 15 kills in a good round with your 2hand.
When you manage to get 5 kills in a round with shield and your favorite 1h then perhaps we can talk again about your suggestion.
Or you can learn to parry a bit.
My Memnon has 3 agi, I use the flamberge, and I can kill the average shielder in 1 vs 1.
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I like the Idea of doing something about 1h and shielders, like you said with the pick or axe you cant see the dam thing and when you try and spam their shield to break it after a few hits they lash out and you cant see what way the attack is comming from so for me this problem needs to be addressed. (I mainly only use axes against everyone so please don't tell me I need one :) )
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... The poles/2h s are BIG enough and actually you can SEE them, if you get killed by a feint that's your own failness.
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They are big enough to get stuck everywhere during the meele struggle, but they hit constantly through stone, wood, dirt and allied fighters.
And my problem with feintspammers ist, that they are boring to fight.
There is no dynamic if they need 10+ seconds before they launch their actual attack.
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Lets be fair Momo, you are a noob spammer who cant parry but you get 15 kills in a good round with your 2hand.
When you manage to get 5 kills in a round with shield and your favorite 1h then perhaps we can talk again about your suggestion.
Or you can learn to parry a bit.
My Memnon has 3 agi, I use the flamberge, and I can kill the average shielder in 1 vs 1.
Well, I am not that good in manual blocking I agree, I don't have any serious problems with 2h and pole blocking (except the stunlock) while I have serious problems againts 1h because of the things I mentioned, I can block the LONGER( SO YOU CAN ACTUALLY SEE THEM) 1h s without problem. And I am using a Goedendag, it's hard to get 15 kills with it, it's not OP so I don't know what's your problem. There are times when I spam, but I don't think that there are people who never spammed. And, I have a shield too but it's for againts only projectiles, and you know what's funny? The goedendag is an 1h weapon too, and I managed to kill 5 people in that mode, and it's not that fast and small and short. So I think the problem is not with me.
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This thread just seems like another "I can't efficiently counter every single player I come across, so please nerf."
The 1h axe and pick have an INCREDIBLY short range. My one problem with the pick is that it's pierce damage is a little too high.
I play a lot of 2h and polearm and just don't have a problem with shielders at all.
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They are big enough to get stuck everywhere during the meele struggle, but they hit constantly through stone, wood, dirt and allied fighters.
And my problem with feintspammers ist, that they are boring to fight.
There is no dynamic if they need 10+ seconds before they launch their actual attack.
You can feint too so I don't know what's your problem. Feinting depends on personal skill not on game mechanics.
Edit: 1h can hit through things too.
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There does not need to be a solution against shielders...
I present to you any Axe, really, or a couched lance, or a fast 2Her/Polearm user who spams faster then the shielder can react, or a high Athletic character who can sidestep past the shielder and swing into him (easily done if the shielder is in heavy armour and slow).
Or a well-timed kick, really...
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so i herd u can swing a 40 pound 5 foot long axe 20 times a second
Seriously your thoughts are flawed. Why can't we have the best 1h/shield when you best 2h exploiters get the same (if not more) damage, and far far more reach, and can swing just as fast, and have decent blocking? Just because we get lucky and catch you mid swing doesn't mean we're OP.
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This thread just seems like another "I can't efficiently counter every single player I come across, so please nerf."
The 1h axe and pick have an INCREDIBLY short range. My one problem with the pick is that it's pierce damage is a little too high.
I play a lot of 2h and polearm and just don't have a problem with shielders at all.
You kidding me? They have the most epic ghost range and they always land in your FACE.
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so i herd u can swing a 40 pound 5 foot long axe 20 times a second
Seriously your thoughts are flawed. Why can't we have the best 1h/shield when you best 2h exploiters get the same (if not more) damage, and far far more reach, and can swing just as fast, and have decent blocking? Just because we get lucky and catch you mid swing doesn't mean we're OP.
I didn't talk about swing speed... I talked about the "shield completely hides the weapon" thing.
Edit: LOL, you know, 1hs have better stab dmg than 2 handers atm, when the 2 handers are designed for stabbing..
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There does not need to be a solution against shielders...
I present to you any Axe, really, or a couched lance, or a fast 2Her/Polearm user who spams faster then the shielder can react, or a high Athletic character who can sidestep past the shielder and swing into him (easily done if the shielder is in heavy armour and slow).
Or a well-timed kick, really...
Like I said, there aren't any BALANCED 2h bonus againts shield weapons so I can eat my axe if the enemy outspams me because I can't hit back because of the unbalanced tag. A am not going to drop my style because of that.
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You kidding me? They have the most epic ghost range and they always land in your FACE.
LOL. So...how many hours have you played a 1-hander with a huscarl and a steel pick? I would say definitely less than 50 and probably less than 10.
If you are complaining about the range of 1-handers who aren't using say the Long Espada or the Elite Scimitar you aren't using the length of your 2 hander correctly.
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Like I said, there aren't any BALANCED 2h bonus againts shield weapons so I can eat my axe if the enemy outspams me because I can't hit back because of the unbalanced tag. A am not going to drop my style because of that.
I see you haven't heard of the Fighting Axe.
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LOL. So...how many hours have you played a 1-hander with a huscarl and a steel pick? I would say definitely less than 50 and probably less than 10.
If you are complaining about the range of 1-handers who aren't using say the Long Espada or the Elite Scimitar you aren't using the length of your 2 hander correctly.
I tried it once, just for fun. And I have to say it's the biggest easymode thing in the game atm.
Edit:Well I can't really use my lenght when 5 pick/huscarl combo coming at me once LOL. Something have to be wrong with this if everyone uses this como ^^.
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I tried it once, just for fun. And I have to say it's the biggest easymode thing in the game atm.
Edit:Well I can't really use my lenght when 5 pick/huscarl combo coming at me once LOL. Something have to be wrong with this if everyone uses this como ^^.
I want you dead if five people attack you at once who are well equiped and not pezzies...
Seriously. You deserve to die then, no one should consitently deserve to survive five people. My shielder eats dirt if five two handers attack him at once.
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I am bored with this playstyle. You may nerf it now. tia! :lol:
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I tried it once, just for fun. And I have to say it's the biggest easymode thing in the game atm.
Edit:Well I can't really use my lenght when 5 pick/huscarl combo coming at me once LOL. Something have to be wrong with this if everyone uses this como ^^.
Shielders used to be easy mode and they still are to a degree. Against a horde of bad players, a shielder can take them apart. Against better players, especially with how popular the long axe is they are at more of a disadvantage. The nerfing of heirlooms hit shielders a lot harder than other players in my opinion.
All-in-all I think the game is pretty damn well balanced at this point. Sure, it's much easier to defend with a shield, but you have to remember that shields slow you down A LOT and you have to invest a lot of points into them to use them. Not to mention the added cost of using one. The incredible cost has also caused there to be much less Huscarls around than there used to be. As it stands, things are playing out a LOT better than they used to.
Edit: most shield users are terrible anyway, because most of the best players play 2H or polearm 'cause 1H & shield is soooo boring to play.
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I want you dead if five people attack you at once who are well equiped and not pezzies...
Seriously. You deserve to die then, no one should consitently deserve to survive five people. My shielder eats dirt if five two handers attack him at once.
You didn't use the epic facehugging ability of 1 handers then. A pick/huscarl combo can eat a lots of bad guys at once without any problem. Am I just hallucinating when I see 30/4 one hander stats on the screen?
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Shielders used to be easy mode and they still are to a degree. Against a horde of bad players, a shielder can take them apart. Against better players, especially with how popular the long axe is they are at more of a disadvantage. The nerfing of heirlooms hit shielders a lot harder than other players in my opinion.
All-in-all I think the game is pretty damn well balanced at this point. Sure, it's much easier to defend with a shield, but you have to remember that shields slow you down A LOT and you have to invest a lot of points into them to use them. Not to mention the added cost of using one. The incredible cost has also caused there to be much less Huscarls around than there used to be. As it stands, things are playing out a LOT better than they used to.
Edit: most shield users are terrible anyway, because most of the best players play 2H or polearm 'cause 1H & shield is soooo boring to play.
I think balance is good too except this shield übereasymode pick thing and the ridiculous polestun. The heirloom nerf hit the 2h s much harder because 1h stab is now superior to 2h stab...and we lost a lot of crushing weapon. Huscarls are still too strong, and they are cheap when you are a dedicated class just don't go hybrid. At this point you are wrong. 2 handers need some BALANCED shield bonus againts shield weps so we will be able to destroy shields, not just the polearms. Look, everyone running with funny swords because the bonus againts shield weps sucks because of the unbalanced thing.
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The only thing i agree here is the "nerf pick" thing. This 1h weapon is definitely overpowered. Who cares about his short range, shielders characters usually have at least 18 agi, so 6 athletics, and they can facehug you effectively.
Kick them is easier said than done, even if it's a valid solution for noob shielders.
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I think balance is good too except this shield übereasymode pick thing and the ridiculous polestun. The heirloom nerf hit the 2h s much harder because 1h stab is now superior to 2h stab...and we lost a lot of crushing weapon. Huscarls are still too strong, and they are cheap when you are a dedicated class just don't go hybrid. At this point you are wrong. 2 handers need some BALANCED shield bonus againts shield weps so we will be able to destroy shields, not just the polearms. Look, everyone running with funny swords because the bonus againts shield weps sucks because of the unbalanced thing.
2H stab did need a nerf. Maybe they went a little overboard, but the nerf was needed. Anyway, a 2H swing or stab STILL outranges a 1h stab anyway, so I don't see what the problem is. The pick doesn't even have a stab.
The 2H weapons that lost crushthrough were overpowered to begin with. You still have the great maul which is a GREAT support weapon.
I agree with polestun to a degree. I don't think things like quarterstaves should have it, but really heavy weapons should have it. Too bad that's hardcoded anyway.
The Huscarl isn't that strong and if you don't have an axe, why are you trying to hit it anyway? You should be killing the player before the shield. Also, the Fighting Axe is 2h and balanced, so there you go.
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2H stab did need a nerf. Maybe they went a little overboard, but the nerf was needed. Anyway, a 2H swing or stab STILL outranges a 1h stab anyway, so I don't see what the problem is. The pick doesn't even have a stab.
The 2H weapons that lost crushthrough were overpowered to begin with. You still have the great maul which is a GREAT support weapon.
I agree with polestun to a degree. I don't think things like quarterstaves should have it, but really heavy weapons should have it. Too bad that's hardcoded anyway.
The Huscarl isn't that strong and if you don't have an axe, why are you trying to hit it anyway? You should be killing the player before the shield. Also, the Fighting Axe is 2h and balanced, so there you go.
Maybe I am blind because I didn't find that thing on the 2h list.
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Maybe I am blind because I didn't find that thing on the 2h list.
It's on the 1h list, it has a secondary 2h mode. It's actually quite popular nowadays.
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You didn't use the epic facehugging ability of 1 handers then. A pick/huscarl combo can eat a lots of bad guys at once without any problem. Am I just hallucinating when I see 30/4 one hander stats on the screen?
I did use the epic face hugging, just one of them spin thrust around me to my left and one more slipped past me to my right and well behind me.
Backpedaling is significantly slower then five rushing lunatics with swords, especially if three of them stagger swing to keep your attention on constant block and the other two rush at you.
Am I hallucinating when I see Cyranule (A 2Her) or any other play with similar scores like 30/4 on the screen? I think not, perhaps that is instead the skill of said person and a dose of luck helping along.
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well, isnt the ability of survival sheilder's main advantage?? I dont get why u would like them to be less durable.
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The only problem i see is the pick, its hard to see because its realy small and fast. The dmg is ok, it shouldnt be nerfed, even 1h needs a can opener. (and i play as a can)
Perhaps make some model that is more visible (you can go to DX7 its easier to see then but i doubt many ppl would do that)
About the huscarl/highend1h combo: you cant counter everything with the 2h sword, you arent supposed to destroy huscarls if you dont have an axe. 2h are fine now with the stab nerf, shielders are also balaced now. I think its just you QQ-ing a bit. Feint
About the 50% hp/drop kill: stupid idea, so what if its 18vs5 or something like that, just because the bigger group kills them most of the time doesent mean that the smaller cant turn it around, why would you deny them the chance?
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I thought this was a troll thread, but then I realised he's actually serious.
I've got 1 advice for you: Go to the duel server and practise more.
Good duelers have no trouble whatsoever blocking one handed weapons.
Don't blame it on the others when your skill lacks.
You don't see me creating a "nerf 2h" thread every time I get outspammed by an agility build 2h.
Play the class you think is OP to level 31 a few times, try different 1h builds and then come here to complain. You'll notice 64 weapon length is REALLY short.
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Momo i always knew youre a douchemy old friend but this is a bit too much, even for you.
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Momo i always knew youre a douchemy old friend but this is a bit too much, even for you.
Failtrolling again? meh...your insults are very lame. I bet you are some 10 year old kid.
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The only problem i see is the pick, its hard to see because its realy small and fast. The dmg is ok, it shouldnt be nerfed, even 1h needs a can opener. (and i play as a can)
Perhaps make some model that is more visible (you can go to DX7 its easier to see then but i doubt many ppl would do that)
About the huscarl/highend1h combo: you cant counter everything with the 2h sword, you arent supposed to destroy huscarls if you dont have an axe. 2h are fine now with the stab nerf, shielders are also balaced now. I think its just you QQ-ing a bit. Feint
About the 50% hp/drop kill: stupid idea, so what if its 18vs5 or something like that, just because the bigger group kills them most of the time doesent mean that the smaller cant turn it around, why would you deny them the chance?
I am forced to play in dx7 because for some reason I have 1 FPS in DX9 mode :(. Those high res textures are fucking my video card xD.
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Failtrolling again? meh...your insults are very lame. I bet you are some 10 year old kid.
I'm not even trying to troll here, your "idea" is just......meh.
Also, more then once has my squad survived these "impossible to survive" situations, maybe it was not 18 vs 5 but i recall something like 15 vs 7 or 20 vs 9 situations that we pulled off. If it was you we would probably be kicked or have our health cut by half so we die faster.
Pick is a deadly weapon but its short and with a correct movement you (well maybe not YOU personally but some 2hander/polearmer with skill) can counter it efficiently, as they actually do quite often.
3 slots ? You're out of your mind.
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Lets make 2h weps 5 slots then!
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Lets make 2h weps 5 slots then!
Or we could just remove everything and have slap fights. At least that will stop threads such as this one.
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I've played 1h+shield for quite a while now, and for a long time I played as a warhammer+huscarl player. The huscarl+hammer build was nice but, often, I'd fall to pieces against a smart 2h/polearm. A huscarl shield is a shockingly heavy and slow device for blocking. Its apparent coverage is also undercut by its two blind spots which appear to be protected but which, in fact, aren't. LUBU, for example, could wrap is great long axe around my shield 80% of the time, and only when I consciously blocked every single hit he threw at my shield did I avoid this weakness. After many fights with LUBU I realized that this conscious blocking was tantamount to manual blocking his attacks. At that point I decided to stop fighting LUBU.
If you think the pick+huscarl build is overpowered you're wrong. Like all builds it has significant weaknesses and strengths. If you're hitting a Pick+Huscarl player straight on then you're playing to her strengths. If you're playing aggressively then you're also playing to her strengths. Huscarl+pick is slow, short range, and painfully weak against cavalry, long axes, and good spearmen. It's the most susceptible build to kicking and depends heavily on the hope that enemy will target the shield rather than the player. When fighting this sort of player it's best to either be quick and wrap around them (which is best done with light armour and some athletics), use an axe to coax them out of their defensive play, hit faster than them (the huscarl is slow, katana are not) and to backpeddle all the way to China servers. If possible, use a horse or find a pikeman to help you out. Many times I was bested by an inopportune poke from the side which my warhammer couldn't return in kind.
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Where are you getting this pick+huscarl stat of yours from anyway? You've said several times that it seems every 1h uses this combo. Maybe you don't play on EU servers or something, but I've only seen that combo a handful of times. Some exaggeration is definitely occurring here.
But anyway, even if that were the case, so what? Shielders should have the right to own some kind of weapon that you find difficult to play against. The same way I as a horse archer can put arrow after arrow into a 2h, but am screwed if a crossbowman or archer takes my horse out. We all have our weaknesses, you just have to learn to combat them. Calling for some kind of nerf or whatever is not the answer. Just learn to be a better player and deal with the 1h pick users effectively. I assure you it is possible, you just need to practice more. And if there are 5 of them coming at you, then unless you're a dam good player, then you're inevitably going to die anyway. Just try and take a few down with you :wink:
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Why did i read this topic?
this was such a waste of time.
So, let me get this straight: You lose against shielders. Rage post saying they are OP with absolutely no evidence or rationalizing why?
Now for the post on delayers.
No, that is an awful solution. Wow that is bad.
No. Master of the Field should just automatically appear 2 minutes before the round ends.
BAM SOLUTION SOLVED
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