cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Rebelyell on February 26, 2014, 12:30:40 am

Title: fuc& looms [now with poll]
Post by: Rebelyell on February 26, 2014, 12:30:40 am
remove looms


Game will be easier to balance, no one will cry that hes +3 item was nerfed again!
New players will have some chance to fight oldmy old friends.
No more retardedplace (http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=marketplacebooth)
more fun
more items in use
more everything
Title: Re: fuc& looms
Post by: Tore on February 26, 2014, 12:55:26 am
I can take yours if you dont want them
Title: Re: fuc& looms
Post by: MacLeod_ on February 26, 2014, 05:01:38 am
Quote from: Rebelyell on February 26, 2014, 12:30:40 am
remove looms


Game will be easier to balance, no one will cry that hes +3 item was nerfed again!
New players will have some chance to fight oldmy old friends.
No more retardedplace (http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=marketplacebooth)
more fun
more items in use
more everything

Looms are progression noobs will see others have,and want them too. A long with the bonus exp up to gen 16. No progression would be like playing some mmo and you start out with a stick and at the end of the game you still have a stick,and nothing to show for your time and effort. Think about it.
Title: Re: fuc& looms
Post by: Normanguy on February 26, 2014, 08:36:52 am
Ermmmmmmmmmm ......,,.


NO!!!
Title: Re: fuc& looms
Post by: IR_Kuoin on February 26, 2014, 08:40:53 am
Then what would we be grinding for if we didn't have looms?
Title: Re: fuc& looms
Post by: Rebelyell on February 26, 2014, 10:18:18 am
there is multiple options
maybe goold for retirement or anything
but looms just breake balance
diffrence in skill and eq between new and old players is main reason why we suffer pop decreas

even weapon maintain can be changed

lets say

you can still have +3 item but with higer upkeep for it
just let players change items with some option like repair lvls

lets say tha retirement give you some gold (300k for example)
also exp bonus per gen is really nice reward

with that player will still retire to get that gold

and i belive there is just bichload of ideas in peoples heads that are way better than mine


looms are to 2010, it was fun when everyoe had like 1 or 2 but now it is new standard thatt somehow kill game



that can change battlefield a lot
every player will be able to use top eq
Title: Re: fuc& looms
Post by: Panos_ on February 26, 2014, 10:20:24 am
oh I see, it`s one of those "Bobby threads"  :lol:
Title: Re: fuc& looms
Post by: Rebelyell on February 26, 2014, 01:09:05 pm
Quote from: Panos_the_Bear on February 26, 2014, 10:20:24 am
nerf 2h no skill master race
fixed

Title: Re: fuc& looms
Post by: Man of Steel on February 26, 2014, 01:17:57 pm
I am gen 30 now if there was no looms, i had stopped on gen 5 i am pretty sure
Title: Re: fuc& looms
Post by: Grumbs on February 26, 2014, 02:30:57 pm
No point in removing them, just make +1 the main bonus, then a small bonus as +2 and finally a little gain as +3.

+2 often gets like +1 speed which considering the other buffs from looming is worthless. +3 gets you +1 stab and +2 swing usually.

Why not something like +1swing, +1stab, +1 speed at green then +1 swing +1 stab at blue then +1 more swing at purple.

For armour +3 at green, +1 more for blue and purple

That is better diminishing returns and will open up the market so people don't just trade +3's and newbies can get some useful gear sooner
Title: Re: fuc& looms
Post by: Osiris on February 26, 2014, 04:52:20 pm
Quote from: MacLeod_ on February 26, 2014, 05:01:38 am
Looms are progression noobs will see others have,and want them too. A long with the bonus exp up to gen 16. No progression would be like playing some mmo and you start out with a stick and at the end of the game you still have a stick,and nothing to show for your time and effort. Think about it.

perhaps in the past :P No one in their right mind will see a lvl 35 fully loomed guy and think i can realistically achieve that.

imo Armour looms need to be toned down. you have +10 body armour over non loomed set which is just too much. But as i play less and less because it takes like 100 hits to kill some of these players my opinion matters little :D
Title: Re: fuc& looms
Post by: Teeth on February 26, 2014, 05:52:25 pm
Quote from: MacLeod_ on February 26, 2014, 05:01:38 am
No progression would be like playing some mmo and you start out with a stick and at the end of the game you still have a stick,and nothing to show for your time and effort. Think about it.
Wat, that literally makes zero sense. Having to play hours and hours to get a 10-20% effectivity bonus through looms sounds exactly like an MMO. Starting out with a stick and ending up with a stick sounds like anything but an MMO.

For me personally the only purpose that looms serve is preventing me from playing with any item I want, unless I want to take a 20% effectivity penalty, which is a load of horse shit.
Title: Re: fuc& looms
Post by: Rebelyell on February 26, 2014, 05:54:47 pm
devs dont like minmaxing

good that looms aren't straight upgrades for items
Title: Re: fuc& looms
Post by: TR_Ragnarok on February 26, 2014, 06:02:26 pm
Still waiting for them to add magic at gen 16
Title: Re: fuc& looms
Post by: Miwiw on February 26, 2014, 06:03:14 pm
You can play without looms and those 10 armor difference and 3 dmg/1 speed difference can easily be undone by being better skilled. And even if the other guy who is fully loomed is as skilled as you, the chance to kill him is high enough and it's still balanced.

What's more awful are the range of builds, ie. a balanced build vs a high agi build. Thanks to the latest wpf changes.
Title: Re: fuc& looms
Post by: San on February 26, 2014, 06:15:48 pm
^I agree, Osiris. I think that body armour looms are fine, but gloves helping give so much armour is a bit ridiculous. I think gloves should add attack power somehow, maybe leaving their default armour values as is.

@Miwiw

I disagree, the looms are a huge performance booster. I only had a +3 weapon for a long time, then I won +3 heavy gauntlets on the forums. My performance was boosted by at least 1.5x. Then the armoury came out, allowing me to get a full +3 set, easily cementing kills that would have been more difficult without those looms. I think the range of builds are what makes the game fun.
Title: Re: fuc& looms
Post by: TR_Ragnarok on February 26, 2014, 06:37:53 pm
A little disappointed that wpf +speed outclasses damage from ps
Title: Re: fuc& looms
Post by: TR_Ragnarok on February 26, 2014, 06:43:53 pm
Quote from: San on February 26, 2014, 06:15:48 pm
^I agree, Osiris. I think that body armour looms are fine, but gloves helping give so much armour is a bit ridiculous. I think gloves should add attack power somehow, maybe leaving their default armour values as is.

@Miwiw

I disagree, the looms are a huge performance booster. I only had a +3 weapon for a long time, then I won +3 heavy gauntlets on the forums. My performance was boosted by at least 1.5x. Then the armoury came out, allowing me to get a full +3 set, easily cementing kills that would have been more difficult without those looms. I think the range of builds are what makes the game fun.

I remember you mentioning ingame that loomed weapons basically add .5-1 ps per level and I agree with you. I noticed that 15 str with a +3 MIL clev does 'visible' damage comparble to a 21 str build with a unloomed clev.
Title: Re: fuc& looms
Post by: San on February 26, 2014, 06:52:07 pm
^Yep. Can easily see the damage differences in a calc. (at least for raw damage. The current online calcs don't have the reduced randomness added in right now)

Quote from: Grumbs on February 26, 2014, 02:30:57 pm
That is better diminishing returns and will open up the market so people don't just trade +3's and newbies can get some useful gear sooner

I agree. Proposed something like this just now with a decent chance of going through, though not exactly how you described (+2 +2 +1 heavy armor, +2 +1 +1 light armor, +1 speed now at +1 for weapons that get that bonus with an additional +1 attack at +2, etc). Damage from looms are % based for most weapons and affect swing and stab at the same time, so a 104% damage bonus may have different effects on weapons.
Title: Re: fuc& looms
Post by: Elindor on February 26, 2014, 10:25:39 pm
Do poll Bobby, interested.
Title: Re: fuc& looms
Post by: MacLeod_ on February 26, 2014, 10:59:04 pm
Quote from: San on February 26, 2014, 06:15:48 pm
^I agree, Osiris. I think that body armour looms are fine, but gloves helping give so much armour is a bit ridiculous. I think gloves should add attack power somehow, maybe leaving their default armour values as is.

@Miwiw

I disagree, the looms are a huge performance booster. I only had a +3 weapon for a long time, then I won +3 heavy gauntlets on the forums. My performance was boosted by at least 1.5x. Then the armoury came out, allowing me to get a full +3 set, easily cementing kills that would have been more difficult without those looms. I think the range of builds are what makes the game fun.

Attack power! World of crpgcraft.

Gloves help the little people that loom lighter gloves and not heavy plated ones. ALl though if I felt like paying 1100 per wave I would wear them heavies.
Title: Re: fuc& looms
Post by: Rebelyell on February 26, 2014, 11:30:41 pm
Quote from: Elindor on February 26, 2014, 10:25:39 pm
Do poll Bobby, interested.
done
Title: Re: fuc& looms
Post by: Kafein on February 27, 2014, 12:30:11 am
Quote from: Teeth on February 26, 2014, 05:52:25 pm
Wat, that literally makes zero sense. Having to play hours and hours to get a 10-20% effectivity bonus through looms sounds exactly like an MMO. Starting out with a stick and ending up with a stick sounds like anything but an MMO.

For me personally the only purpose that looms serve is preventing me from playing with any item I want, unless I want to take a 20% effectivity penalty, which is a load of horse shit.

Go get some quarters or whatever word you chrhstctsrshstchrtshch-speaking people use for change and to the nearest arcade with you.

I'd still remove looms though.
Title: Re: fuc& looms [now with poll]
Post by: Jarold on February 27, 2014, 05:42:50 am
I finally have two +3's and you want to take back all my hard work! Why balance the game around people who think looms aren't fresh anymore and are bad.
Title: Re: fuc& looms [now with poll]
Post by: owens on February 27, 2014, 05:52:34 am
I think


+1 loom should be better

+2 loom and +3 loom should be weaker

MW should be the same as it is. With the exception of gloves which should go from +5 to +4 imo.




(partly off topic, does warband allow non-integer specs eg 29.5 cut?)
Title: Re: fuc& looms [now with poll]
Post by: Snufalufagus on February 27, 2014, 08:44:04 am
Removing looms would feel like this


(Losing a year of my life, and pain)   OP is sick and cruel like the six fingered man  :evil:
Title: Re: fuc& looms [now with poll]
Post by: Tears of Destiny on February 27, 2014, 08:48:49 am
Quote from: owens on February 27, 2014, 05:52:34 am
(partly off topic, does warband allow non-integer specs eg 29.5 cut?)
No, but we might be able to "get around" this problem by doubling a crapload of numbers (easier said then done considering the hardcoded stuff in WB like some health related numbers iirc)
Title: Re: fuc& looms [now with poll]
Post by: Rebelyell on February 27, 2014, 01:31:23 pm
I have 36 gens on my main
7 on my dead xbower
3 on my dead 1h
2 on my another alt

I never had problems with upkeep or looms
I even donated some to my friends,

and after all that crazy grind I can only say, that shit have no sens
it use to reward players that retire to avoid high lvl staking
now looms are new standard
and soon hig lvls will be to
soo new player will have no chance to fight oldmy old friends( they dont have now anyway)


curent system rewards grinders, minmaxers and scums

marketplace was created to let peps change looms, now it is full of RETARDS



but after all I understand players that dont like my idea
I was the same.




Title: Re: fuc& looms
Post by: SyderOne on February 27, 2014, 02:16:25 pm
Quote from: Tore on February 26, 2014, 12:55:26 am
I can take yours if you dont want them

hahahahah!!! dafuck?? YOU MAD!! delete that suggestion please.
Title: Re: fuc& looms [now with poll]
Post by: Miwiw on February 27, 2014, 02:21:20 pm
Quote from: Rebelyell on February 27, 2014, 01:31:23 pm
(click to show/hide)

Looms simply reward players that play a lot. Why should a player that only plays casually be rewarded as a player that's online for 5-10 hours each day? That's not making sense. Warband and crpg are not casual games and not every player should be treated as the other. There's already a difference in level, in builds, in skill, why not in equip as well?

I doubt anything will drastically change in crpg anyway now, and it doesn't make sense to remove looms or heavily weaken them.
It is more than easy to get looms if you play actively, so it makes no sense to remove them at all as everyone has the same chance to get them. Those who don't want looms, do not retire. Easy as that. ;)
Title: Re: fuc& looms [now with poll]
Post by: BlueKnight on February 27, 2014, 02:44:54 pm
What if we boosted every silngle item in the game so at +0 it would be like at +3 and then deleted all looms? Wouldn't it feel like if everyone just received every item at +3 state?

Definitely would feel better than just a loom removal.
Title: Re: fuc& looms [now with poll]
Post by: BlindGuy on February 27, 2014, 02:45:55 pm
Miwiw: yes u have many looms and you value them. No you are not looking past that. Yes you can keep your opinion to yourself. Yes you are very biased.


On this topic in a realistic, dispasionate way:

Heirlooms need removing and the "softcap" with it. Hardcap at 30. Game fixed. Lets not forget, looms were introduced to stop high levels... Currently, the softcap has created a problem: We have players with very limited skills and tactical knowledge who are considered good, simply because they are very high level and use this advantage to kill noobs. Over and over. Remove all leveling, all looms, give everyone a STF and balance the game properly BY ITEM instead of by item type (2h, pole, etc) by a balance team who are actually decent at the game play all classes.

Sure all "progression" would be gone, so would the grinding fans, and the game and community would be better for it. And "all" we would have is a balanced version of native.

Good. Would be perfect world.

I love my looms. I guess. I keep most of them in clan armoury. Who needs that shit? Noobs, they need that shit. Fucking l2p noobs.
Title: Re: fuc& looms [now with poll]
Post by: Miwiw on February 27, 2014, 02:54:41 pm
Quote from: BlindGuy on February 27, 2014, 02:45:55 pm
Miwiw: yes u have many looms and you value them. No you are not looking past that. Yes you can keep your opinion to yourself. Yes you are very biased.
I don't have many looms. I had 15+ once, and went down to 12 now even though I retired about 4 times during that time so I don't value them much. I always looked to trade my min-max looms for loomed items that look nicely. I'm also wearing plated stuff only and I have 3 heraldic armors loomed.
While the equip of my main character is fully loomed, I also play 3 other characters who don't have a single item loomed because it's simply not needed for them to play and have fun.

So what, obviously I am biased as all of us are. Looms are quickly to get and those who want it and put time into it, get it.

At the same time you can keep your opinion to yourself as well. Hard cap lvl 30? Ha, what a stupid idea. That's a way to ruin the game for the active players, those who look to have a build that's beyond lvl 30. Unless you would be doing something about that (ie.making a level 30 build have as much possibilites as a lvl 35 build now), the suggestion to have lvl 30 as max lvl is a stupid one and ruins the game for all older players. And for the game the older players are important because they play daily, not any newmy old friends...
Title: Re: fuc& looms [now with poll]
Post by: BlindGuy on February 27, 2014, 03:10:26 pm
Quote from: Miwiw on February 27, 2014, 02:54:41 pm
TLDR

That you even answered confirms what I wrote. GTFover yourself already.
Title: Re: fuc& looms [now with poll]
Post by: Miwiw on February 27, 2014, 03:11:42 pm
Someone close to crying heh cause I disagree with your amazing opinion?  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: fuc& looms [now with poll]
Post by: BlueKnight on February 27, 2014, 03:18:10 pm
Quote from: BlindGuy on February 27, 2014, 02:45:55 pm
(click to show/hide)
I think high levels should be kept because it's where the characters can be more different from other ones and you can hybridise you character more. Having more possibilities is always more freedom and your character feels more like your own choice, also via soft-med-hardcap you still see a room to progress which gives you additional goal and motivation.

I agree that we need to do something about players getting restricted by what they have already gained. Having this particular character high level and those looms for this class discourages from creating an alt that is generally at big disadvantage or takes some leveling/grinding to make it pleasant to play. Playing 1 character for long time is boring.

Giving higher lvl STF characters that are free to respec would make players try new stuff and new builds and not get restricted by the subconcious brain-minmax-whispers. Players would build more disobliging builds.

Funny thing is that most of the players that are left usually have put a lot of devotion to cRPG and play quite regularly and my friend once told me that he prefers Chivalry because he can just freely hop in game and just play it casually while if you don't play cRPG for a week, for the first hour you'll be getting destroyed unless you remind yourself how to play and wake up that muscle memory.

I find it true because it truly requires devotion (or very hard work at marketplace :rolleyes:) to collect yourself a whole set of +3s and build up your character. Especially true for alts, when you stack gen bonus leveling seems way easier (but still slow  :?) cRPG requires huge amount of time spent in game in order to truly enjoy it.

Quote from: Miwiw on February 27, 2014, 03:11:42 pm
Someone close to crying heh cause I disagree with your amazing opinion?  :mrgreen:

Guy usually types with exaggeration, you should keep that in mind. What he types, you should divide by half and you will most likely get a pretty accurate statement.



Also Just make every item +3 and remove +0  :mrgreen:
Even though everyone would be made equal, everyone would feel rewarded, unlike in loom removal situation when everyone would feel punished.
Or just give everyone 999 loompoints. You would only see those people complain, who can't enjoy someone's else joy, as you wouldn't hurt them with that.
Masterworks would be super-common but now they are super-common as well but now they discourage players from trying new things and if they got even more common or way less common, players wouldn't feel so bonded to their class. Next step would be to mild leveling and increase it's speed so less of the grind would be needed.
Title: Re: fuc& looms [now with poll]
Post by: Ikarus on February 27, 2014, 03:37:07 pm
Quote from: Rebelyell on February 26, 2014, 12:30:40 am
remove looms


Game will be easier to balance, no one will cry that hes +3 item was nerfed again!
New players will have some chance to fight oldmy old friends.
No more retardedplace (http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=marketplacebooth)
more fun
more items in use
more everything

You know what´s loomed in my inventory?
my horse

that´s all

looms are a nice little bonus for fighting, but they definetly do not have a big weight in them

this won´t "fix" balancing at all, just remove a big piece of the longtime motivation of the game itself

you can improve yourself way better with training
Title: Re: fuc& looms [now with poll]
Post by: BlueKnight on February 27, 2014, 03:39:07 pm
Quote from: Ikarus on February 27, 2014, 03:37:07 pm
You know what´s loomed in my inventory?
my horse

that´s all
That's what happens when you spend too much time with Jackie...
Title: Re: fuc& looms [now with poll]
Post by: Ikarus on February 27, 2014, 03:41:18 pm
Quote from: BlueKnight on February 27, 2014, 03:39:07 pm
That's what happens when you spend too much time with Jackie...
:mrgreen:

nah, that happens when you keep playing with a gen1 character ^^
Title: Re: fuc& looms [now with poll]
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on February 27, 2014, 03:47:08 pm
Probably it is not apparent at first look but think about it. Without looms to spend money on and with gold stacking up and up, almost everyone will go full tincan and get the hardest hitting weapons. Because that would be the only way to put that gold into good use.

Now, would you really like to have that? Looms also help people keep the gear they like (due to the looks of the gear or roleplaying purposes) and still have some bonus on top of them. It is an option, it is a goodie, it is enhancement. Take it out and that will surely overkill the mod.
Title: Re: fuc& looms [now with poll]
Post by: BlueKnight on February 27, 2014, 03:49:58 pm
Quote from: Daunt_Flockula on February 27, 2014, 03:47:08 pm
Probably it is not apparent at first look but think about it. Without looms to spend money on and with gold stacking up and up, almost everyone will go full tincan and get the hardest hitting weapons. Because that would be the only way to put that gold into good use.

Now, would you really like to have that? Looms also help people keep the gear they like (due to the looks of the gear or roleplaying purposes) and still have some bonus on top of them. It is an option, it is a goodie, it is enhancement. Take it out and that will surely overkill the mod.

Gold could easily find a new thing to be spent on -> buyable respecs or partial respecs
Title: Re: fuc& looms [now with poll]
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on February 27, 2014, 03:52:02 pm
But do you really believe that it will be enough to keep people playing? That is the question. Personally, I think I would stop immediately.
Title: Re: fuc& looms [now with poll]
Post by: BlueKnight on February 27, 2014, 04:01:34 pm
Quote from: Daunt_Flockula on February 27, 2014, 03:52:02 pm
But do you really believe that it will be enough to keep people playing? That is the question. Personally, I think I would stop immediately.
I haven't been playing for looms for superlong now. I am on my way in roleplaying and highleveling whatever I like to play.

My 2h is lvl 34, my pole/cav is lvl 33, my archer will be soon 32, then I'll probably lvl up my 1h, dunno.

Strategus is/was the most significant lvl booster.

I roleplay a lot and it's actually when I enjoy my game the most. Also my internal minmaxer prevents me from playing tincan 24/7 even though it'd be avaiable to me if I sold 1 of my 14 MWS. Because I play many different classes, I have 1 +3 1h; 3 +3 2h; 2 +3 polearms; 2 +3 horses -> roleplay(now trying to sell 1 of them to get myself mamluk (roleplay purposes)); 2 +3 armours -> roleplay; 2 +3 pairs of gauntlets -> minmax + punching abilities; +3 helmet -> minmax; +3 boots-> if I have everything then why not  :wink:

I don't think that one needs to keep retiring or leveling up or getting wealthy to enjoy the game.
Title: Re: fuc& looms [now with poll]
Post by: Nukkel on February 27, 2014, 04:30:29 pm
Loom points is a part off CRPG, it gives the players the opportunity to have better weapons then just standard "great sword" Seriously, a masterwork poleaxe or a normal poleaxe won't make the difference between killing a new lvl 5 peasant.

Loom points are used in strategus a lot too. I don't see why we should remove it as its been a part of the mod for as long as I know.
Title: Re: fuc& looms [now with poll]
Post by: BlindGuy on February 28, 2014, 07:19:09 pm
Quote from: Nukkel on February 27, 2014, 04:30:29 pm
I don't see why we should remove it as its been a part of the mod for as long as I know.

Once, there were no looms, and the loony toons axe did swingeth, and the boulder-ona-stick did crusheth, chadz looked at what he has made, and it was good. Then it all went wrong.

Also: Im not crazy am I? I remember when all our looms were lessened by 1/3 right? anyone else remember this? or am I crazy?

Now, dont get me wrong: I dont WANT looms gone, I have fucking loads of them, lost fucking track of them. But: it would improve the game.

As to the MUCH GOLD LEADS TO TINCANS argument: how? Right now I have unlimited gold. I mean that insofar as: I have given millions away, put probably a million into clanbank, and still have loads.... I can use any gear I want all of the time. But I DO see that playing plated cav, I start to lose money: Can I support it? Yes, indefinitly. Am I going to? No: here is a huge secret that many ppl seem to be missing:

IF YOU ARE LOSING MONEY WITH YOUR CURRENT GEAR: You are not good enough to use that gear. Sure, some rounds you cannot do more than you did, and still lost, but over time your skill shows: If you are a great cav player you can afford to ride all damn day and are winning enough to support it. SO MANY times we get new players in the clan who's first words are: Can I borrow some money to buy (heavy horse, plate, massive weapons etc) and I try to explain: NOTHING from the shop is expensive, there is not a single item you cannot buy after an evenings or a weekends gold grind.

But then they tell me: Yeah but Im always loosing money from upkeep! YES, you will with current system untill you realise that shitcunts cannot just buy a plated horse and some baked bean tins and flatten everyone: 1/ they will get ownd like Mircea el Batram gets ownd, 2/ they will go broke.

SO: Its very easy to get plate. To wear it and use it all the damn time. But we arent seeing that, are we? There doesnt appear to be too many more tincans than normal (sure, theres always a bunch of you guys who wear it all the time, and tbh it inst helping you since Tydeus made every weapon in the game a can opener, as long as you dont try straight stab).

Also, plate is never gonna be super great since we have players like Kinn and Hetman: They dont even know what attack direction they are gonna do next but it doesn't matter since 1h P-dmg is never gonna glance with 2/3 of the swings, and rightswing will only glance if your almost behind the swinger.


INFACT: without backpeddling its next to impossible to fight 1hspam, and tincans who arent stupidly high level cannot backpeddle effectively, and if they are stupidly high level and are escaping the 1hspam by range, it doesnt matter wether they have plate or not because what armor u have on is immaterial if your opponent cannot hit you.
Title: Re: fuc& looms [now with poll]
Post by: San on February 28, 2014, 07:48:45 pm
1h spam is impossible to fight against, if only they increased the speed on all the slower weapons, perhaps 95 speed and lower, which excludes 90% of 1hs.