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Strategus => Strategus General Discussion => Topic started by: CrazyCracka420 on February 21, 2014, 08:21:22 pm

Title: Why do players on defense get free gear?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on February 21, 2014, 08:21:22 pm
It's better gear than most of the attackers can afford.  I don't think they should be getting any free gear, but if they do, it should at least be -2 and the cheapest of gear.  I can understand AI defenses having gear (because DUH...no free rides), also they have gold to buy gear.  But players who get attacked and haven't purchased any gear, shouldn't get free gear...that's pretty dumb.
Title: Re: Why do players on defense get free gear?
Post by: karasu on February 21, 2014, 08:30:30 pm
 :o
Title: Re: Why do players on defense get free gear?
Post by: Thomek on February 21, 2014, 08:38:16 pm
Cracka you more stupid than normally?

It's so we won't have endless, pointless, boring naked battles like we used to in strat 1 and 2(?)
Title: Re: Why do players on defense get free gear?
Post by: Tovi on February 21, 2014, 08:41:30 pm
naaah, attackers should have peasant gears.
Title: Re: Why do players on defense get free gear?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on February 21, 2014, 08:56:59 pm
Cracka you more stupid than normally?

It's so we won't have endless, pointless, boring naked battles like we used to in strat 1 and 2(?)

Buy some gear then.

And if you want to take that argument, fine (I left that as a caveat), but then the defenders should have -2 gear, and it should be the cheapest gear possible (i.e tridents, practice swords and wooden sticks), not axes and scythes. 
Title: Re: Why do players on defense get free gear?
Post by: Thomek on February 21, 2014, 09:09:23 pm
......

People won't buy gear because they won't spend anything on an already lost battle.
Title: Re: Why do players on defense get free gear?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on February 21, 2014, 09:21:06 pm
......

People won't buy gear because they won't spend anything on an already lost battle.

So you're in the "the defenders should get free gear camp", I've got that from your first message.  You think they should be getting scythes and axes and not the cheapest gear (also -2 quality)? 
Title: Re: Why do players on defense get free gear?
Post by: Jacko on February 21, 2014, 09:24:18 pm
Free gear is fine.
Title: Re: Why do players on defense get free gear?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on February 21, 2014, 09:34:48 pm
Yes I can agree that free gear is fine.  But should players be getting scythes for their peasant gear (not -2 scythes mind you, which is all people can buy right now, but level 0 scythes)?

Scythes are 32 gold each.  Tridents are 2 gold each.  I'd say there's a pretty big difference in price between peasant gear that costs 2 gold per item and 32 gold per item. 
Title: Re: Why do players on defense get free gear?
Post by: Thomek on February 21, 2014, 09:39:44 pm
Once strat matures just a little bit it will be balanced and fine, and even poor defenders have a slither of chance, making uneven battles less pointless, and removing free wins.  You don't have a case.
Title: Re: Why do players on defense get free gear?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on February 21, 2014, 09:44:11 pm
I do have a case, this early on in strat the gear that defenders are getting is much better and more expensive than is feasible for attackers to have.  I think it will be that way for at least a few weeks, maybe into the next month+.  That means people essentially have free reign to roam around the map going for 350%+  trade bonuses, with basically no risk involved. 
Title: Re: Why do players on defense get free gear?
Post by: NejStark on February 21, 2014, 09:46:56 pm
When I saw the first battle my first thought was that they want us to play more as wandering bands of wannabes who may one day come to hold great places in the strat world. Being on a level playing field we woul have to fuck eachother in the open field and take from lesser foes.

I think this way the game starts like Warband SP, whereas last strat, with the votes, everyone started as fief owners.

 
Title: Re: Why do players on defense get free gear?
Post by: imisshotmail on February 21, 2014, 10:09:32 pm
I do have a case, this early on in strat the gear that defenders are getting is much better and more expensive than is feasible for attackers to have.  I think it will be that way for at least a few weeks, maybe into the next month+.  That means people essentially have free reign to roam around the map going for 350%+  trade bonuses, with basically no risk involved.

Yeah this is true. Free gear as a concept is pretty bad, why should someone stupid enough to not buy gear get some for free?
I don't mind having to fight "naked battles" against people, because free gear is pretty much that whenever you have armour anyways, the only time it actually makes a difference is early on in strategus where it becomes beneficial to NOT buy gear which is completely counter intuitive.
Title: Re: Why do players on defense get free gear?
Post by: Thomek on February 21, 2014, 10:29:43 pm
its not really intuitive that peasants would choose to fight naked either. It's just absurd. Axes are also something peasants have laying around.
Title: Re: Why do players on defense get free gear?
Post by: Lt_Anders on February 21, 2014, 10:35:17 pm
It's only "OP" because strat started 5 days ago. You shouldn't be attacking within 3 days. There just isn't enough GOLD to do that.

For 150 troops with decent light armor is 4k. At this point, you need to rely on numbers over gear until you can afford gear.
Title: Re: Why do players on defense get free gear?
Post by: BaleOhay on February 21, 2014, 10:53:27 pm
we were highly successful  with our first attack
Title: Re: Why do players on defense get free gear?
Post by: Lt_Anders on February 21, 2014, 11:14:27 pm
Funny how he made this thread AFTER (faction) getting reckt in battle.
Title: Re: Why do players on defense get free gear?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on February 21, 2014, 11:14:44 pm
its not really intuitive that peasants would choose to fight naked either. It's just absurd. Axes are also something peasants have laying around.

Then give it to attackers too.

My point (that you seem to be cleverly ignoring) is that the free gear shouldn't be 0 quality, it should be -2.  And it should be the cheapest gear, not a few tiers up from the cheapest.  scythes cost 32 gold each, tridents cost 2 gold each.  free gear that players get should be the cheap stuff, not stuff that is 16 times more expensive. 

Funny how he made this thread AFTER (faction) getting reckt in battle.

Two things, I can't even fight in strat battles (new son and all), so I really don't care one way or another.  I'm a forum whore at work, and this goes with the territory (spouting opinions and arguing). 

Secondly, we bought gear for an attack (we spent a pretty decent amount for this early on) thinking we were attacking an unarmed army (which we knew could easily get reinforced with gear/troops).  And we lost that battle.  Then we got attacked and we won that battle because we got free gear.

I'm not spouting my opinion because I'm mad, glad or sad.  It has nothing to do with any battle outcomes, this is my opinion as a player that free gear is bad.  But if you're going to give people free gear, then give them the cheapest gear, not gear that is 16 times more expensive than the cheapest gear.  I can certainly see that you may be unable to separate your feelings from your opinions, but I am and do all the time.
Title: Re: Why do players on defense get free gear?
Post by: Lt_Anders on February 21, 2014, 11:17:12 pm
Then give it to attackers too.

My point (that you seem to be cleverly ignoring) is that the free gear shouldn't be 0 quality, it should be -2.  And it should be the cheapest gear, not a few tiers up from the cheapest.  scythes cost 32 gold each, tridents cost 2 gold each.  free gear that players get should be the cheap stuff, not stuff that is 16 times more expensive.

Focus's on 1 weapon: Ignores 80% of the rest of the peasant gear given.
Title: Re: Why do players on defense get free gear?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on February 21, 2014, 11:18:55 pm
Focus's on 1 weapon: Ignores 80% of the rest of the peasant gear given.

Since I don't fight in strat battles, I am relying on information from previous rounds of strat.  I don't know what all free gear is given, but I know scythes are part of that (I believe axes are as well, not sure if they are two-handed axes or what kind).   

But keep bringing up your salient and highly logical points, they are really adding a lot to this discussion. 

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Why do players on defense get free gear?
Post by: Lt_Anders on February 21, 2014, 11:32:43 pm
Since I don't fight in strat battles, I am relying on information from previous rounds of strat.  I don't know what all free gear is given, but I know scythes are part of that (I believe axes are as well, not sure if they are two-handed axes or what kind).   

But keep bringing up your salient and highly logical points, they are really adding a lot to this discussion. 

(click to show/hide)

you get the three WORST ARMORS IN THE GAME, 4 verisons of the Colored shield, a spiked club and...Falchion I believe?, short bow, rocks, (cheapest) 2h axe, scythe, pitchfork.

You're complaining about them getting 2(roughly 15% total) weapons that are REALLY good because they are CUT. Most of their gear is utter balls.
Title: Re: Why do players on defense get free gear?
Post by: Dach on February 22, 2014, 12:07:06 am
Secondly, we bought gear for an attack (we spent a pretty decent amount for this early on) thinking we were attacking an unarmed army (which we knew could easily get reinforced with gear/troops).  And we lost that battle.  Then we got attacked and we won that battle because we got free gear.

So finally you got screwed because of your lacking knowledge about the game... then you go on about how it's broken...

Next time how about you inform yourself instead of whining for change of game mechanics...

And don't try the, we can't know without trying... This free gear isn't new, it existed last round.
Title: Re: Why do players on defense get free gear?
Post by: imisshotmail on February 22, 2014, 12:32:45 am
I mean I was on the winning side of that battle Anders and I think it was stupid. It is NOT intuitive that you get better gear by not buying weapons, than you do by buying weapons. The point that this isn't going to matter in 1-2 weeks is a bad one because if that is the case, why not just add fief voting back in? If no one can fight each other for the first portion of Strategus why even have taking fiefs be a thing, skip it and go straight to the part where people can fight.
Title: Re: Why do players on defense get free gear?
Post by: Lt_Anders on February 22, 2014, 12:55:46 am
I mean I was on the winning side of that battle Anders and I think it was stupid. It is NOT intuitive that you get better gear by not buying weapons, than you do by buying weapons. The point that this isn't going to matter in 1-2 weeks is a bad one because if that is the case, why not just add fief voting back in? If no one can fight each other for the first portion of Strategus why even have taking fiefs be a thing, skip it and go straight to the part where people can fight.

I always preferred that over AI shit.
But free gear is a lesser evil than no gear. We've HAD free gear for...EVER! Why not Complain AI doesn't get broken gear too?
Title: Re: Why do players on defense get free gear?
Post by: Keshian on February 22, 2014, 02:31:52 am
In a few weeks you'll be glad it is the way it is.  Makes every battle a real one unless attackers randomly attack some guy without buying gear themselves.  Since they initiate its much more likely the attacker will have gear.  More real battles, more xp = more win.
Title: Re: Why do players on defense get free gear?
Post by: Teeth on February 22, 2014, 10:25:21 am
I do have a case, this early on in strat the gear that defenders are getting is much better and more expensive than is feasible for attackers to have.  I think it will be that way for at least a few weeks, maybe into the next month+.  That means people essentially have free reign to roam around the map going for 350%+  trade bonuses, with basically no risk involved.
We took our village wednesday and our two new armies are running better gear than the free gear so you don't have a case. You can still beat free gear with having a better roster or having more tickets, the difference between 15 body armour and 0 counts for nothing and you can loot their weapons. We took a 200 man village equipped with gear worth 50k silver with 334 losses while we had gear worth 5k silver. Free gear is good because it makes getting some really early money from trading or meeting up with your faction reasonably safe, but any coordinated attack will still punch through your free gear army, even at this point. Which means if people go with serious numbers of trading goods, people will attack and beat them even right now.

Don't blame free gear for you carrying out a crappy attack.
Title: Re: Why do players on defense get free gear?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on February 22, 2014, 03:52:48 pm
I'm not complaining about losing a battle that we bought gear for (and winning a battle we didn't).  I'm talking about a game mechanic.  But keep bringing up whether or not we won or lost a battle and not actually arguing the merits of what I'm talking about.


And I'm not talking about the armors, I'm talking about the weapons.  I don't think free gear should be as good of gear as it is.  It should be the lowest tier gear.  Falchion costs 52 gold, it's a lot more expensive than a wooden stick at 1 gold.

I still don't think anyone should get free gear, but if they do, it should be -2 and lower tier than it currently is.
Title: Re: Why do players on defense get free gear?
Post by: Torben on February 22, 2014, 03:56:12 pm
cracka,  as soon as people have established themselves it wont matter if the defenders have -2 or +0 gear,  itll be a slaughter anyway.
Title: Re: Why do players on defense get free gear?
Post by: Teeth on February 22, 2014, 04:48:28 pm
I'm not complaining about losing a battle that we bought gear for (and winning a battle we didn't).  I'm talking about a game mechanic.  But keep bringing up whether or not we won or lost a battle and not actually arguing the merits of what I'm talking about.

And I'm not talking about the armors, I'm talking about the weapons.  I don't think free gear should be as good of gear as it is.  It should be the lowest tier gear.  Falchion costs 52 gold, it's a lot more expensive than a wooden stick at 1 gold.

I still don't think anyone should get free gear, but if they do, it should be -2 and lower tier than it currently is.
I did argue the merits. A falchion is not 50 times as good though and if you buy some hatchets and bring 50% more tickets you can kill them and loot their falchions. Current free gear is beatable within 2 days of Strat so I just do not see the issue here, no one else does either so good luck to you.
Title: Re: Why do players on defense get free gear?
Post by: MountedRhader on February 23, 2014, 07:21:22 am
The gear may seem overpowered because Strategus just started, but in a few weeks it will be nothing.
Title: Re: Why do players on defense get free gear?
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on February 24, 2014, 04:48:44 pm
The gear may seem overpowered because Strategus just started, but in a few weeks it will be nothing.

This. Although, hopefully in a few weeks factions will all have good enough gear as to make this mechanic obsolete for all except non-factioneers and people who got beaten and booted over to the other side of the continent.

It'd make more sense to scale the gear to that of what the rest of Strat is currently using, but that's way too much work imo, as this works out nicely as it is.

Funny story, I didn't know this mechanic existed and was desperately equipping my army with lederhosen, cudgels, and rocks before Bale kindly told me to stop being retarded.
Title: Re: Why do players on defense get free gear?
Post by: BaleOhay on February 24, 2014, 06:14:44 pm
On a different note you look amazing in those things.. How you got them on a house need to be demonstrated sometime