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Strategus => Strategus General Discussion => Topic started by: BlueKnight on February 21, 2014, 02:47:34 pm

Title: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: BlueKnight on February 21, 2014, 02:47:34 pm
So today there was a strategus battle of Panos attacking Andswaru who had 1 troop.

Andswaru had 1 swaybacked sumpter horse and a rider who tried to stay alive for 14:40 (the time that the battle lasts) but after riding around for 13:30 the rider got kicked by Ninja_Khorin even though there weren't any rules that were broken. Defenders' job is to stay alive and the rider wasn't in any unreachable place. I'd say it was panos' fault that he didn't get any ranged weapons nor cavalry so it was his fault that he couldn't kill a rider.

Panos tried to banpoll the rider twice! for which he got kicked from the server by the pollkick for pollabuse. Yet the rider got kicked by an admin and Andswaru lost the battle because his only troop got kicked even though no rules have been broken. Andswaru lost battle, goods and his faithful swaybacked sumpter horse.

I feel disgusted. Fuck you admin and fuck you Panos, next time that you attack buy yourself proper equipment and don't run away to admins because you can't win a battle because your strategy sucks.

Kiss my ass and happy strat 4 you.

Defenders job is to survive till the battle is over.

EDIT: I humbly request the goods to be given back and the swaybacked sumpter as well.

EDIT2: Giving Screenshots in a second

pics:
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)

EDITS:
Thank you for your comment, once again.

Let me explain once again:

I thought that if the attacking army retreats, it can't win the battle. Knowing that Panos would go over-confident, I expected him not take proper equipment and hoped for good map for riding (no river in the middle) so we can survive till the retreat of the attackers. So it was a legit tactic assuming that retreating army can't win the battle. If the battle was to last an hour of riding we wouldn't give a fuck and nobody would come, but it was ~14 minutes so we let it be. A fact that it was Panos' battle wasn't a priority but it made watching it from the spectator's seat a comedy.

All in all, nobody would be riding a horse if me or Andswaru knew that a retreating army can still win a battle and they must be killed to prevent it. Nobody cares enough to just come and ride to annoy Panos if the battle can't be won.

The topic was about admin's decision which, as I thought before, made attackers win a battle that could be won by defenders. As we know now, it was hardly possible. Same with Panos' banpoll, so considering that the battle can be won by defenders, kicking the only defender seemed to be poll abuse, so he got kicked for it.

What makes me wonder is how many players know that a retreating army can actually win a battle :?: Have never seen a battle in EU that a retreating army would win.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Torben on February 21, 2014, 02:50:48 pm
poor sumpter must have felt lost after his rider died by heavens hands :((
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: BASNAK on February 21, 2014, 02:53:08 pm
100 troops will suicide after the fact that they could not catch a peasant on a horse constantly fleeing engangement. Sounds legit. Even if it's not breaking any rules it's gay as fuck and shouldn't be a possible way to win a battle.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Macropus on February 21, 2014, 02:53:19 pm
Chamber of QQ
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Uther Pendragon on February 21, 2014, 02:53:34 pm
Oh dear, this is going to be ugly.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: BlueKnight on February 21, 2014, 02:55:31 pm
100 troops will suicide after the fact that they could not catch a peasant on a horse constantly fleeing engangement. Sounds legit. Even if it's not breaking any rules it's gay as fuck and shouldn't be a possible way to win a battle.
It's Panos fault that he was unable to kill that cav guy. He didn't equip himself with proper equipment. He didn't have any ranged or cav. Our strategy was better than his and btw attacking 1 guy with 70+ troops isn't gay at all, eh?....
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Sniger on February 21, 2014, 03:05:24 pm
panos and khorin! why you little...!

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nah, seriously. IMHO i think thats dirty playing. you very well know the game panos :) :) and you also know what happens in these situations, i say you planned this and was going for that kick, exactly because you know the game. (and its admins? :p ) this doesnt suit you very well buddy! i thought you were one of the only fairplayers left! i guess not?  :twisted:

Fuck you admin and fuck you Panos
Kiss my ass and happy strat 4 you.

hayhaynownow this doesnt suit YOU very well BK mate :)
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Erasmas on February 21, 2014, 03:08:13 pm
Yep. Exactly what you can expect in dire moments. Admins support.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Templar_Steevee on February 21, 2014, 03:09:03 pm
I were there and I support Andswaru.
This situation we can compare to one from last strat.
Attackers run out from ladders and were unable to get on the walls. But that was just their fault that they cant reach defenders and were forced to give up fight.

In situation from first post we have same situation. Attackers were unable to kill defenders bacause of lacks in gear. Even 1 short bow and one pack of arrows and they will one a battle without problem.
Riding around was gay af fuck, but amount of attackers were enought to kill that pony rider (he got some dmg anyway), they were too unorganized.

Ninja_Khorin makes a bad decision kicking out defender, strat battle have other rules than normal battles on servers.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: [ptx] on February 21, 2014, 03:13:45 pm
IIRC, delaying by simply fleeing the enemy long enough wasn't a valid "tactic" in last strat as well.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Knife on February 21, 2014, 03:14:23 pm
I'm almost positive that it was the other nija that called the admin, panos told me polearm is the master race, he would never be friends with a my old friendgy ninja, right? :P
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Macropus on February 21, 2014, 03:14:37 pm
Wait wait wait... is this thread actually serious?

How about common sense? If attackers run out of ladders on siege and lose because of that - it seems perfectly fine and legit, and even realistic.
But a single pony rider protecting the village from 100 enemies by just riding away... No.
Quote
"first rule of em all: common sense"
    ~ chadz
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Sniger on February 21, 2014, 03:16:23 pm
i wonder how 100 man footarmy can catch a pony? O_o why even try?
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: BlueKnight on February 21, 2014, 03:17:03 pm
IIRC, delaying by simply fleeing the enemy long enough wasn't a valid "tactic" in last strat as well.
Oh ye, surviving as defender is delaying? it's their job to kill that cav guy but they lacked equipment because they are shortsighted and didn't foreseee that they would need ranged or at least 1 cav guy. It's their fault that they couldn't kill him.

Wait wait wait... is this thread actually serious?

How about common sense? If attackers run out of ladders on siege and lose because of that - it seems perfectly fine and legit, and even realistic.
But a single pony rider protecting the village from 100 enemies by just riding away... No.
What village are you talking about. No village around and another example, if we had only 1 guy and he was well armoured and the enemy didn't have weapons and therefore they wouldn't be able to hit him with anything else than fists. Would you call that delaying? Would it be fine or would you kick the armoured guy?

In this case the attacker didn't have the weapon to overcome our defense which was speed and brain... Panos didn't equip himself with ranged weapons and it's his fault.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: serr on February 21, 2014, 03:17:35 pm
Steevee, when attackers have run out of ladders - they lose, if defenders lose flags and then hide somewhere or run away - they lose, it always was this way. Otherwise, as a guy who has 30 agi I could run away and single handedly win any battle at this stage of strat. It's not about strategy, it's about delaying.
If defenders lost their flags and don't try to take them back - they lost the battle.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Osakasa on February 21, 2014, 03:20:20 pm
Sounds really gay... why this cav guy didn't def flags when they were all captured? There should be timer when all flags are down, team has x min(s) time to get one back otherwise fief/castle is captured
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Corwin on February 21, 2014, 03:20:29 pm
OMG, one of the funniest posts in a while!
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Armpit_Sweat on February 21, 2014, 03:22:57 pm
Never played strategus, but riding a sumpter horse alone, for 13 min sounds like a very weak move... Personally, i don't like running away from a fight, i rarely resort to this "tactic" even if i have a ranged weapon.
How annoying it must be to chase a lonely sumpter horse for 13 min :D On the other hand, if there are no rules regarding this situation - I guess one have to take some ranged weapons into battle, like a hunting crossbow. I don't know how it works in Strategus, so I might sound ignorant.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Mr.K. on February 21, 2014, 03:23:54 pm
i wonder how 100 man footarmy can catch a pony? O_o why even try?

The pony was carrying 20 crates, I guess that's the reason he caught him on the map. For some reason crates don't spawn on the actual battle allowing him to abuse the game mechanics and run away. I'm sure Panos would have been happy just taking the crates and letting the enemy run irl...

Clearly not a valid tactic imo.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: BlueKnight on February 21, 2014, 03:25:01 pm
I'm sorry that somebody was riding swaybacked sumpter. Sounds totally immortal. Lack of teamwork, lack of ranged weapons and lack of horses and lack of tactics made them lose. If it was real battle the horseman would just escape, no big deal for him but here he is locked in a square and his job is to survive till the timer is at 0:00.

Never played strategus, but riding a sumpter horse alone, for 13 min sounds like a very weak move... Personally, i don't like running away from a fight, i rarely resort to this "tactic" even if i have a ranged weapon.
How annoying it must be to chase a lonely sumpter horse for 13 min :D On the other hand, if there are no rules regarding this situation - I guess one have to take some ranged weapons into battle, like a hunting crossbow. I don't know how it works in Strategus, so I might sound ignorant.
^
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Fips on February 21, 2014, 03:25:45 pm
Lol, why this even has to be discussed. You delayed and got kicked for it, end of story.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Macropus on February 21, 2014, 03:26:28 pm
Sorry, missed the fact it was a field battle.
and another example, if we had only 1 guy and he was well armoured and the enemy didn't have weapons and therefore they wouldn't be able to hit him with anything else than fists. Would you call that delaying? Would it be fine or would you kick the armoured guy?
I wouldn't kick him, because in that situation he would kill all the attackers and win the battle.

In this case the attacker didn't have the weapon to overcome our defense which was speed and brain... Panos didn't equip himself with ranged weapons and it's his fault.
Well I can kinda agree that in some conditions the defenders should be able to retreat saving some troops and equipment but also losing a fair amount. But in no way should the defenders win by delaying after their flags are captured.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: serr on February 21, 2014, 03:26:31 pm
You know, if you survived till the timer is at 0:00 you would still have to kill all attackers to win...
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: BlueKnight on February 21, 2014, 03:27:25 pm
Lol, why this even has to be discussed. You delayed and got kicked for it, end of story.
It wasn't me and how can a defender delay when he can win. Delaying is prolonging battle when you can't win. It was a leggo tactic in this case. We used it that Panos didn't equip himself with ranged weapons, cav or any sort of teamwork...

You know, if you survived till the timer is at 0:00 you would still have to kill all attackers to win...

If the server says that the attacking army is retreating I think that the defenders win no matter what, don't they.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: serr on February 21, 2014, 03:29:22 pm
It wasn't me and how can a defender delay when he can win. Delaying is prolonging battle when you can't win. It was a leggo tactic in this case. We used it that Panos didn't equip himself with ranged weapons, cav or any sort of teamwork...

But you couldn't win this. Surviving till the end of timer is not win, you would win only if all attackers quitted battle and that is obviously delaying.

Quote
If the server says that the attacking army is retreating I think that the defenders win no matter what, don't they
No, they don't. It mean only that attackers stop spawning. They still can kill defenders and win battle.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Sniger on February 21, 2014, 03:30:46 pm
even a noob like me could forsee this  :lol:  if theres no rules about this, why even try attack some pony when i have no proper weapons or tactic to take it out?  :lol: its like chess, im not gonna check the king with my queen if the king can just go one step back and avoid the check, then my move is completely waste and frankly retarded
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: BlueKnight on February 21, 2014, 03:30:49 pm
But you couldn't win this. Surviving till the end of timer is not win, you would win only if all attackers quitted battle and that is obviously delaying.
I think the battle would be won by Andswaru but with 0 troops left and that'd be it.

Also after the battle is won by the defenders it's attackers who are delaying :P

In previous strats attackers were even kicked (like steevee mentioned, lack of ladders aka lack of tools to kill in this case lack of ranged, cav, teamwork)
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Templar_Steevee on February 21, 2014, 03:32:37 pm
Lol, why this even has to be discussed. You delayed and got kicked for it, end of story.
In strat delaying starts when time runs up
You know, if you survived till the timer is at 0:00 you would still have to kill all attackers to win...
Yes, but he were kicked before time ends.

That was a battle for fun probably to tease Panos (and it works  :mrgreen:), but if an admin is making a bad decision is not good.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Mr.K. on February 21, 2014, 03:36:26 pm
That was a battle for fun probably to tease Panos (and it works  :mrgreen:), but if an admin is making a bad decision is not good.

He can't win (-2 sumpter can't bump) so why waste half an hour of everyone's time? Clearly delaying imo and kick was justified. I agree with Osakasa that there should be a timer that starts when attacker captures the flags to avoid this "tactic".
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Miwiw on February 21, 2014, 03:39:56 pm
Andswaru couldn't win but the other team couldn't win too.

Would you attack a cav on foot - shouldn't the cav rather be free to escape? That'd be fair.

Battle automatically ends because attackers do not have horses nor ranged weapons but the enemy team got a team fully equipped with horses so defender automatically wins. attackers do not lose gear, defender doesn't as well and is free to go.

That is how it should work. The same if a team attacks a castle and got no siege gear, then the defenders should also win.

Maybe trade goods should be left behind though.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Sniger on February 21, 2014, 03:44:08 pm
either case Ands should have his time no matter what. who knows, maybe he would be lucky enuff to bump someone to death and take his weapon or something else, we dont know, because he was kicked by an admin BEFORE time was up. sure you could call DELAY if he was kiting you the entire round, but he didnt, he was kicked before time was up.

edit:
(-2 sumpter can't bump)

didnt knew
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Gurnisson on February 21, 2014, 03:47:17 pm
Panos is a retard for not buying a single bow, crossbow, throwing weapon or horse. Even if he was stupid enough to don't do that, the guy who ran away for 14 minutes on a sumpter horse used an incredibly gay tactic that shouldn't be able to work.

Do the defenders have to kill every alive attacker if the timer runs out? If so, it's basically not possible to get a result with this ridiculous tactic, which is good, and any kind of delaying like this wouldn't happen again (I hope). If the attackers lose because of it, it would be incredibly silly and should be changed.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Sniger on February 21, 2014, 03:50:47 pm
but wait a minute  :lol: the weakest horse able to carry a man on its back can surely bump someone if they are naked or wear regular clothes?! i guess this belong to item balance forum
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Jacko on February 21, 2014, 03:53:46 pm
We are discussing it in IRC at the moment. Should be a precedent set soon enough until we can get something more robust in place.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Sniger on February 21, 2014, 03:56:12 pm
in chess, what panos did is called "blunder"move  :lol:
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Rebelyell on February 21, 2014, 03:59:31 pm
if time was not over no one should kinck anyone
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Miwiw on February 21, 2014, 04:06:05 pm
How is it common sense to let a team win that's not prepared to do shit at all?
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: sF_Guardian on February 21, 2014, 04:08:45 pm
There's a rule to prevent delaying, are you seriously complaining about this?
Besides that it's lameass shit anyway.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: dreadnok on February 21, 2014, 04:23:22 pm
100 troops will suicide after the fact that they could not catch a peasant on a horse constantly fleeing engangement. Sounds legit. Even if it's not breaking any rules it's gay as fuck and shouldn't be a possible way to win a battle.

Who the fucks fault is that? Why let it go on that long then ban after 13 minutes is an asshole admin
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Nessaj on February 21, 2014, 04:23:46 pm
P r o j e c t i l e s

They're quite nice in combat, or at least that's what history tells us...

There was once this Roman fella' named Marcus Crassus, yep the one who took out Spartacus, he went on to invade Parthia. However his legions were defeated at Carrhae (modern Harran in Turkey) by a numerically inferior Parthian force. Crassus' legions were mainly infantry men and were not prepared for the type of swift, cavalry-and-arrow attack that the Parthian troops were particularly adept at. The Parthians would get within shooting range, rain a barrage of arrows down upon Crassus's troops, turn, fall back, and charge forth with another attack in the same vein. They were even able to shoot as well backwards as they could forwards, increasing the deadliness of their onslaught. Crassus refused his quaestor Gaius Cassius Longinus's plans to reconstitute the Roman battle line, and remained in the testudo formation thinking that the Parthians would eventually run out of arrows. BUT THEY DIDN'T. Good night everybody!
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on February 21, 2014, 04:26:26 pm
Shame the Nords lacked projectiles, then. Otherwise it would've been a clear win.

Here's my opinion:

Previously we have kicked defenders if they are not defending their flags or attacking the attackers if they've lost control of their castle or village. I've personally witnessed this happen, where the defenders try and hide simply to delay. Theoretically they can survive and win by time running out. They've always been kicked, even if the attackers had no means of catching them, because if defenders lose the flags, then they've failed at defending.

Same applies for field battles, except you're defending a caravan. This wasn't a horse archer I kicked.

In this case, the defender wasn't defending the objective or killing attackers, ergo he should lose whatever he was defending.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Nessaj on February 21, 2014, 04:31:49 pm
Yeah, huge fail on the ARMY COMMANDER to not bring a cudgel at least. Shamefur.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Thovex on February 21, 2014, 04:37:43 pm
lmaao
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Andswaru on February 21, 2014, 04:50:07 pm
imo, its the defenders job to survive a battle and the attackers jobs to win it. If this was 2000 vrs 2000 men we wouldnt even be discussing it. The attackers didnt bring the right tools and the defender would of survived.
 I dont give 2 flying monkeys about the trade goods or anything been undone, its mearly principle given that panos tried twice to get the defender ban kicked then after he was kicked was poll abuse he found a friend to come and kick the defender.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Wiltzu on February 21, 2014, 04:50:14 pm
The funny part here is this:

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Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Jacko on February 21, 2014, 04:53:58 pm
To clarify the rules: Not defending your flags is considered delaying the battle.

This rule is to cover our bases when it comes to people hiding, riding around and other forms of delaying a battle they can't win (the focus of a battle is to kill your opponents or get their flags).
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Thovex on February 21, 2014, 04:54:54 pm
This thread is pretty good and I kinda agree with Jacko it's delaying.
But it's still hilarious to see people so upset and mad.

On the other hand, if you can't kill riders shouldn't the riders be able to get away?
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: kinngrimm on February 21, 2014, 05:10:08 pm
So am i to believe that the main goal of a battle is to stay alive? Not to engage the enemy? The fuck he could have bought weapons and not spend it on a horse and not decreased his troop cap. Instead Andswaru wanted to be "fast" at whereever he wanted to go ... and got caught.

For me it is not about Panos rage polling or Tea counter rage polling, but about the idear behind this game. The fuck it is not about not egaging in combat, but to prepare yourself so you can and in that sense i know who lost that encounter, if now being kicked by an admin or not.

EDIT: And then dragging out an encounter for 14 minutes ... fuck that shit. I got better things to do then to wait that the circle jerk cav runs out of luck. If we have that attitude in every fight this will become a very boring strat indeed.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Kafein on February 21, 2014, 05:16:31 pm
Wait wait wait... is this thread actually serious?

How about common sense? If attackers run out of ladders on siege and lose because of that - it seems perfectly fine and legit, and even realistic.
But a single pony rider protecting the village from 100 enemies by just riding away... No.

Your argument is invalid. The common sense rule is never applied to anything.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Moncho on February 21, 2014, 05:19:21 pm
You_Gonna_Hate_Me_Panos :D
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Turkhammer on February 21, 2014, 05:30:41 pm
100 troops will suicide after the fact that they could not catch a peasant on a horse constantly fleeing engangement. Sounds legit. Even if it's not breaking any rules it's gay as fuck and shouldn't be a possible way to win a battle.

Change rules then.  Don't abuse admin kick.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Turkhammer on February 21, 2014, 05:36:20 pm
So am i to believe that the main goal of a battle is to stay alive? Not to engage the enemy? The fuck he could have bought weapons and not spend it on a horse and not decreased his troop cap. Instead Andswaru wanted to be "fast" at whereever he wanted to go ... and got caught.

For me it is not about Panos rage polling or Tea counter rage polling, but about the idear behind this game. The fuck it is not about not egaging in combat, but to prepare yourself so you can and in that sense i know who lost that encounter, if now being kicked by an admin or not.

EDIT: And then dragging out an encounter for 14 minutes ... fuck that shit. I got better things to do then to wait that the circle jerk cav runs out of luck. If we have that attitude in every fight this will become a very boring strat indeed.

Then bring some bows and arrows with you to the fight.  Panos was obviously not prepared was he?  Think of it as guerrilla warfare if it makes you feel any better.  The goal of guerrilla warfare IS just to stay alive.  Guerrillas win by not losing.  It sounds like Panos was not prepared for asymmetrical warfare.  Having an admin kick him was a pussy move.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: IR_Kuoin on February 21, 2014, 05:59:51 pm
Well, they could just try making a circle and close in on the rider
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: dreadnok on February 21, 2014, 06:13:28 pm
We are discussing it in IRC at the moment. Should be a precedent set soon enough until we can get something more robust in place.

Make sure you bring up a 1h morningstar and tower shield too
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Sniger on February 21, 2014, 06:13:54 pm
STRATEGUS

(click to show/hide)

bug.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: bredeus on February 21, 2014, 06:19:20 pm
ban admin, problem solved
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: BlueKnight on February 21, 2014, 06:31:05 pm
Well, they could just try making a circle and close in on the rider
swaybacked sumper isn't the fastest horse in the world and when you have kinngrimm in your team and some other speedy guys I think that a little of teamwork could have the job done especially that they managed to hit the rider at least once.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: kinngrimm on February 22, 2014, 11:10:40 am
swaybacked sumper isn't the fastest horse in the world and when you have kinngrimm in your team and some other speedy guys I think that a little of teamwork could have the job done especially that they managed to hit the rider at least once.
Dont make this about me man. Andswaru came directly after the fight to me on teamspeak to point out your reasons for ban/kick poll of Panos with about 5 Nords waiting/watching in the spectators while those votings happened. I didnt call the admin who kicked the horse dude and didnt open this thread and i didnt attack Andswaru on the Strat map. And i sure as hell will not herd every fucking cav with an unorganized team not in the same teampseak only to catch 1 dude who is avoiding combat. The ruling has been made now by the devs/admins, deal with it.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Panos_ on February 22, 2014, 11:24:26 am
Funny how you accuse me of making drama, while you open this butthurt thread.

I was expecting more from Nords, guess I was wrong.

Sleep it over and the butthurt will go away.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Teeth on February 22, 2014, 11:27:04 am
What the fuck Blueknight, how are you able to seriously advocate that you deserved a win there? Jesus, have some downvotes. Seriously man, seriously, how?
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Panos_ on February 22, 2014, 11:31:58 am
I`m laughing at the retards who say that I called Khorin  :lol:
In my 3+ years of playing this mod, I never went crying to an admin.

But it`s good to see that Nords are so butthurt over 19 wooden statues  :lol:

This whole thing makes me think what would`ve happened if it was the opposite situation, me riding the sumpter away  :rolleyes:

probably I would`ve been permabanned by now
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Paul on February 22, 2014, 11:57:45 am
You would have made an even more whiny thread.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Harpag on February 22, 2014, 12:36:49 pm
Regulations, standards, rules - are necessary, but in unregulated or precedential cases (as now) in my opinion admin should refrain from any action and let the game moving at more or less common sense but own way. Delaying is annoying for anyone who is waiting, but how much time it should take to catch a guy on a horse, even if you have over 9000 professional runners? BlueKnight +1 Khorin -1 Panos fu  :wink:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Ronin on February 22, 2014, 01:06:08 pm
I believe this is a bug in game design.

Defenders should have been able to escape with crates and equipment only 1 people can carry. 19 crates should have been left, so it really is delaying since defenders would have no means of protecting those 19 crates.

Attackers and defenders should be able to have some valid forms of retreat. Like leaving crates and equipment behind, to save troops. I know it must be carefully thought out, but the work is underdone in that department most of the time in our crpg/strategus. Such is one of the cases here...
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: karasu on February 22, 2014, 01:45:43 pm
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Both sides end up being retarded at the end of the day. Carry on.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Butan on February 22, 2014, 01:54:50 pm
Blueknight, look at your profile comment and you will have the answer to your complaint :

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Also, unreachable = unatackable

No ranged weapons + constantly fleeing without attacking = unatackable = unreachable = delaying = punishable.


Khorin did the good thing, maybe think out of your clan tag next time... It was a nice fun trolling, but it was supposed to end like this.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Wiltzu on February 22, 2014, 02:04:20 pm
Oh Butan..
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: BlueKnight on February 22, 2014, 02:55:31 pm
Next time just make a 1 vs 70+ automatically a lost battle because someone may be clever enough to actually win it, or just outsmart the attackers...

It was super gay tactic but I just can't think of any other that could bring a victory in that situation.

Defenders win the battle by staying alive until the timer is at 0:00 without abuse of unreachable places etc. and that's what it looks like currently and it's the only requirement, isn't it? No matter how gay it is, it is still a valid tactic leading to the goal which is defender's survival. Being on horseback isn't unreachable. It's only unreachable for tremendously brainless people who don't equip themselves with proper tools like ranged weapons or horses and then whine that they can't catch a cav guy... omg... 1 short bow and 1 bag of arrows would be enough. Attackers wouldn't probably need these if only they organised themselves a bit.

Just update the strat rules. So people know what is allowed and what isn't so the defender doesn't get kicked for doing his job.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Thovex on February 22, 2014, 03:00:57 pm
We're still winning the + - war boys!!
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Macropus on February 22, 2014, 03:16:32 pm
Defenders win the battle by staying alive until the timer is at 0:00 without abuse of unreachable places etc. and that's what it looks like currently and it's the only requirement, isn't it?
No, there's one more which you were told of several times by now. Defenders have to kill the attackers who are alive even after the timer is 00:00.
So imagine this: battle time ended, no more spawns, both sides are alive. What's next? How on Earth could that sumpter rider kill the attackers? Or would he delay till the end of the world?
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: BlueKnight on February 22, 2014, 03:19:19 pm
No, there's one more which you were told of several times by now. Defenders have to kill the attackers who are alive even after the timer is 00:00.
So imagine this: battle time ended, no more spawns, both sides are alive. What's next? How on Earth could that sumpter rider kill the attackers? Or would he delay till the end of the world?
WELL WE DON'T KNOW BECAUSE THE RIDER GOT KICKED BEFORE WE COULD SEE THAT.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Utrakil on February 22, 2014, 03:22:08 pm
He could bore the attackers to death.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: BlueKnight on February 22, 2014, 03:23:23 pm
He could bore the attackers to death.
On the other hand the laughter of the spectators could cure cancer   :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Macropus on February 22, 2014, 03:36:48 pm
WELL WE DON'T KNOW BECAUSE THE RIDER GOT KICKED BEFORE WE COULD SEE THAT.
Such a shame, it would be a wonderful show...
Oh well we do know however.  Either attackers would get bored after another hour or two of delaying and leave the server letting Nords win, or the defender would get kicked anyway. I'm not really sure how can you be quite serious on that matter.

Now tell me that making your enemy quit because of boredom is a good winning tactic and should be legitimate.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: BlueKnight on February 22, 2014, 03:47:21 pm
Such a shame, it would be a wonderful show...
Oh well we do know however.  Either attackers would get bored after another hour or two of delaying and leave the server letting Nords win, or the defender would get kicked anyway. I'm not really sure how can you be quite serious on that matter.

Now tell me that making your enemy quit because of boredom is a good winning tactic and should be legitimate.
Tbh it was planned for the rider just to ride until the army retreats at 0:00 and then he'd just leave the server. Also there was a weapon on the ground when Panos got kicked for poll-abuse but the plan was to ride till the retreat message,  assuming that a retreat is a win-sign. Now at least I know it's not and it's just a message of no more spawning for the attackers. The riding would take additional ~1:30 more I guess. Don't exaggerate it going for hours, who the fuck would do that for 19 goods or whatever amount there was. The even't was mostly a nice gift for Panos.

I still think the defender shouldn't get kicked until the battletime is actually over.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Lt_Anders on February 22, 2014, 03:58:55 pm
Holy Nuggets of Fuck, EU Drama is lame.

NA would kicked this guy in 4 minutes. It's delyaing and is entirely pointless. You STILL have to kill the attackers to win so it's NOT a valid "tactic" because who wins is who's left alive at the end of the battle, not who the timer made retreat first.(Two battles last strat came down to 10 v 10 timer out, last man standing on the NA side)

Perhaps if you guys got your heads out of your ass, you'd realize how dumb, both via mechanics, and pure common sense, your damn argument is.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Thovex on February 22, 2014, 04:29:42 pm
Go suck on a fried chicken you American, don't ruin our best drama 2014.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Macropus on February 22, 2014, 05:45:40 pm
The riding should've been finished on the second minute of this bullshit.

I still think the defender shouldn't get kicked until the battletime is actually over.
Why?
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Thovex on February 22, 2014, 05:55:10 pm
^ is why NA strat battles are always more fun

^ This is why ignorance in NA is always bigger.

ITT: People who expect this is how every EU battle is.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Butan on February 22, 2014, 06:24:45 pm
I know you're not saying its true 100% of the time but


exploits that EU defenders in siege would claim to be 'legit tactics' and get defensive in every battle and thread to allow them to keep doing, NA just didnt do cos it isnt fun.

Was especially true early-mid round but at the end NA sieges would still use invisible walls and shit.
I think its more about a few influential persons dragging the whole community this way or that, than NA or EU mentality.


But whats always true is that the longer the round, the more we all grow to be completely similar in how we do things.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Butan on February 22, 2014, 06:52:26 pm
I remember a early NA siege where defenders had a pretty big unvisibile-walkable from defense side only front wall. We were forbidden by a guy to use it, most of everyone followed and we had a "balanced" fight. The few who tried to walk through here were yelled at and intimidated/threatened so they stopped quick. Thats an example of a good community, but unfortunately sometime there is just noone to "lead" the good fight and when noone has a strong opinion most of everyone do what they want. Which isnt a problem per se.

Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Andswaru on February 22, 2014, 08:43:41 pm
No, there's one more which you were told of several times by now. Defenders have to kill the attackers who are alive even after the timer is 00:00.
So imagine this: battle time ended, no more spawns, both sides are alive. What's next? How on Earth could that sumpter rider kill the attackers? Or would he delay till the end of the world?

Just wanna point out, that theoretically he could bump them all to death given that they are wearing next to no armour.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Macropus on February 22, 2014, 08:56:57 pm
Just wanna point out, that theoretically he could bump them all to death given that they are wearing next to no armour.
Well, theoretically he could punch them all to death without even using a horse, but what's your point?
What he could do has nothing to do with that he actually did, because what he did was avoiding the fight. I'd be the first one to applaud if he at least bumped some enemies to death.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Sniger on February 22, 2014, 09:33:23 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


as i see it, the first retarded move is the one to blame, in this case panos. retarded move gives birth to another retarded move  :lol:

panos kind of forced the retardness  :lol: and i bet he knows it  :lol: penis! :) :)

(click to show/hide)

we are all idiots :) ♥
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Panos_ on February 22, 2014, 10:12:42 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


as i see it, the first retarded move is the one to blame, in this case panos. retarded move gives birth to another retarded move  :lol:

panos kind of forced the retardness  :lol: and i bet he knows it  :lol: penis! :) :)

(click to show/hide)

we are all idiots :) ♥

Speak for yourself.


No one is this community is better than me, and I`m no better than any of you.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Molly on February 22, 2014, 10:38:04 pm

No one is this community is better than me, and I`m no better than any of you.
Communist 1on1... Everyone is equal. :D
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Panos_ on February 22, 2014, 11:15:19 pm
Communist 1on1... Everyone is equal. :D

huehue
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Thomek on February 23, 2014, 03:32:58 am
No Panos, some people are better than others.

Btw.. awesome thread. Thx for entertainment. I've would have banned the mofo for delaying after about 30 seconds.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Butan on February 23, 2014, 03:40:01 am
No Panos, some people are better than others.

Oh you :3
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: MountedRhader on February 23, 2014, 07:17:16 am
God damn, with all the odds against that 1 guy on the Sumpter, and then to add insult to injury, 1-sided admin interference.



Feel bad for the cavalry guy, that was his only chance of winning and the admin took it away.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: BlueKnight on February 23, 2014, 08:26:24 am
Why?
Because it's defenders right to take part in the battle till the time is over or till he dies.

Also once the enemies stop spawning it's easier to at least try 1vs8 instead of 1vs70+
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Panos_ on February 23, 2014, 10:43:31 am
No Panos, some people are better than others.

Btw.. awesome thread. Thx for entertainment. I've would have banned the mofo for delaying after about 30 seconds.

define the word "better".

For you someone who is better than the most, can be an idio to the most and vice versa!


Also BlueKnight, come on dude, lock this thread already, you embarassed yourself enough.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: BlueKnight on February 23, 2014, 01:39:11 pm
Also BlueKnight, come on dude, lock this thread already, you embarassed yourself enough.

At least now I know that "Attacking army is retreating" text doesn't mean the same thing as "Defenders won" one but more stylish. I expected the win to be assigned to Andswaru after the attacker's retreat even if the rider quit the game after 0:00. I thought that it's how it works and that he wouldn't have to kill attackers. Someone else could correct me about that before Serr and Macropus did. I thought that the rider doesn't have to do anything but to survive to win. If I knew how it works I'd tell him to get that staff that was lying on the ground when Panos got kicked for poll-abuse. Then he wouldn't have been kicked and could wait till attackers can't spawn anymore and then he could fight those few enemies.

Well, I got to know something from this topic and I hope that you did too and next time you'll get some ranged stuff or horses yourself because if Ands had a short bow and arrows as Khorin said (~50silver spent), the rider could carelessly just wait till you can't spawn anymore and then pew pew you down and the battle would be won.

Embarrassed or not, at least I spelled it properly and got to know something from the topic :mrgreen:

To clarify the rules: Not defending your flags is considered delaying the battle.

This rule is to cover our bases when it comes to people hiding, riding around and other forms of delaying a battle they can't win (the focus of a battle is to kill your opponents or get their flags).

What if the player just came back to his flags and recover them later? I guess there isn't any time requirement when the player has to put his flags back up for it to be considered "defending". And if flags are so important to defend then why isn't there any timer counting down your time to insta loss if you have your flags down? It's all because flags allow spawning which is super-important itself for armies of above ~50 tickets. It's important for them but to the players who have already spawned all their tickets, flags mean nothing. Should it be like this or should an additional timer of the flag-recovery start ticking giving you ~a minute to recover at least 1 of your flags? Why after so many hours of strategus is it still an issue?

How is it their 'right'? When a developer has come onto your thread and told you the ruling they've agreed on in regards to delaying without defending flags.

Why are you still arguing in terms of 'rules' and 'rights' when a Dev has already approved the use of a kick in that situation?

What is your definition of defending and when are you considered defending or not defending something? Rules aren't precise enough and I wrote about it above. If it's not insta loss when your flags are down then what is the time that you have to recover them?

Also it was nowhere among the rules before that you have to defend the flags. http://forum.melee.org/strategus-general-discussion/strategus-rules/ There is something about delaying when the battle is over, not when it's still going on, so if the time was over the rider could get kicked but as I said, he was supposed to quit himself after 0:00
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Corsair831 on February 23, 2014, 01:40:09 pm
oh my god i'm actually on panos's side

yeah, running around fleeing the enemy for 15 minutes is not really in the spirit of strategus, it's gamey and abusive, don't do it again please

we have a small enough community in strat without people bending every possible rule to breaking point  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: BlueKnight on February 23, 2014, 01:46:58 pm
oh my god i'm actually on panos's side

yeah, running around fleeing the enemy for 15 minutes is not really in the spirit of strategus, it's gamey and abusive, don't do it again please

we have a small enough community in strat without people bending every possible rule to breaking point  :rolleyes:

It was against Panos, don't tell me you wouldn't try to abuse the things against him. Those 13 minutes as a spectator were great fun for me. Forcing him to helplessly run after a swaybacked sumpter for a few good minutes is all we could do unluckily :P

On the other hand if I knew what was the win requirement nobody would probably come but I didn't know that killing the attackers was essential for defenders' victory. I thought that "The attacking army is retreating" equals win. Don't know how many times I have to type it again.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Lt_Anders on February 23, 2014, 01:53:34 pm
Ignorance is no excuse for idiocy.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Panos_ on February 23, 2014, 02:20:55 pm
It was against Panos, don't tell me you wouldn't try to abuse the things against him. Those 13 minutes as a spectator were great fun for me. Forcing him to helplessly run after a swaybacked sumpter for a few good minutes is all we could do unluckily :P

You tried to troll me, you failed, and now you`re here showing us how much butthurt you are.

Guess who`s the idiot  :wink:
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: BlueKnight on February 23, 2014, 03:06:45 pm
You tried to troll me, you failed, and now you`re here showing us how much butthurt you are.

Guess who`s the idiot  :wink:

Not really, I started this topic because I thought that defenders do not need to kill the attackers to win and that surviving till attackers' retreat would win the battle. This is what made me disagree with admin's decision, which in my eyes was giving you a win when the defender was about to win.

Also the rider made you start a banpoll twice and you got pollkicked from your own battle so we may argue if the "troll attempt" failed  :wink:

Well, seems that you like telling everyone that he's butthurt since you do this in every argument  :? I hope that you understand anything of what I'm typing to you and I hope that opposite to what my instinct says, I'm not wasting my time talking to you.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: kinngrimm on February 23, 2014, 03:41:50 pm
... Panos got vote-kicked for poll-abuse. ...
While his rage ban poll had been over the top, he was more in the right as it turned out, to at least kick vote the delayer, then Tea was in the right to kick vote Panos. As the turn of events hasn't started by Panos delaying, but by the dude on the horse. So if you want someone to get punished for poll abuse, there is a case to be made to do so with Tea.

...
Splitting hairs we say in germany, meaning you can over-argue things. I give you that, that there was no such clear ruling before this and therefor thank you Blueknight bringing this to our attention.(no sarcasm)

It was against Panos, don't tell me you wouldn't try to abuse the things against him. ...
and there we become what we despite most ... a troll?

....attackers' retreat...
You brought this point up now 2 times, not though in your initial post.
I wasn't aware during the battle of the attacker retreating while running behind the horse dude. My best guess would be that Panos was fed up, thereby "grieved/trolled" enough by the defenders actions to retreat or did it happen with the kick poll?

Not sure, but has anyone openly already admitted being the dude on the horse?
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Thovex on February 23, 2014, 03:50:22 pm
For 100k I'll tell.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Andswaru on February 23, 2014, 03:54:32 pm
90k
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Thovex on February 23, 2014, 03:58:41 pm
45k
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Andswaru on February 23, 2014, 04:14:05 pm
fu i cant go under that, cooties will be mad if i sell him out so cheap.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: BlueKnight on February 23, 2014, 04:14:28 pm
While his rage ban poll had been over the top, he was more in the right as it turned out, to at least kick vote the delayer, then Tea was in the right to kick vote Panos. As the turn of events hasn't started by Panos delaying, but by the dude on the horse. So if you want someone to get punished for poll abuse, there is a case to be made to do so with Tea.
Splitting hairs we say in germany, meaning you can over-argue things. I give you that, that there was no such clear ruling before this and therefor thank you Blueknight bringing this to our attention.(no sarcasm)
and there we become what we despite most ... a troll?
You brought this point up now 2 times, not though in your initial post.
I wasn't aware during the battle of the attacker retreating while running behind the horse dude. My best guess would be that Panos was fed up, thereby "grieved/trolled" enough by the defenders actions to retreat or did it happen with the kick poll?

Not sure, but has anyone openly already admitted being the dude on the horse?
Thank you for your comment, once again.

Let me explain once again:

I thought that if the attacking army retreats, it can't win the battle. Knowing that Panos would go over-confident, I expected him not take proper equipment and hoped for good map for riding (no river in the middle) so we can survive till the retreat of the attackers. So it was a legit tactic assuming that retreating army can't win the battle. If the battle was to last an hour of riding we wouldn't give a fuck and nobody would come, but it was ~14 minutes so we let it be. A fact that it was Panos' battle wasn't a priority but it made watching it from the spectator's seat a comedy.

All in all, nobody would be riding a horse if me or Andswaru knew that a retreating army can still win a battle and they must be killed to prevent it. Nobody cares enough to just come and ride to annoy Panos if the battle can't be won.

The topic was about admin's decision which, as I thought before, made attackers win a battle that could be won by defenders. As we know now, it was hardly possible. Same with Panos' banpoll, so considering that the battle can be won by defenders, kicking the only defender seemed to be poll abuse, so he got kicked for it.

What makes me wonder is how many players know that a retreating army can actually win a battle :?: Have never seen a battle in EU that a retreating army would win.
Title: Re: Strategus drama Penios
Post by: Lt_Anders on February 23, 2014, 09:35:30 pm
What makes me wonder is how many players know that a retreating army can actually win a battle :?: Have never seen a battle in EU that a retreating army would win.

If i had the choice, I'd link you to two NA battles. One in which ALL defenders were UNHIRED, but were still "there"(ie for that team) and we won even though 0 were there for the attackers per battle.(we capped flags/killed them all)

Another one between(lco?) and FCC which was literally a duel between 1 FCC merc and 2 LCO guys to win the battle.