cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Pandor_Archer on January 24, 2014, 03:02:40 pm

Title: Item balance
Post by: Pandor_Archer on January 24, 2014, 03:02:40 pm
First of all - Trowings must be rebalanced. Stats that ive rebalanced have underline.
Old Throwing lance:                                                              
missile speed: 17
weapon length: 120
weight: 1.5
accuracy: 154
difficulty: 7
speed rating: 80
missile speed: 17
weapon length: 120
max ammo: 1
thrust damage: 60 pierce

New Throwing lance.
missile speed: 17
weapon length: 120
weight: 1.5
accuracy: 148
difficulty: 7
speed rating: 80
missile speed: 17
weapon length: 120
max ammo: 2
thrust damage: 50 pierce

Old jarids:
missile speed: 20
weapon length: 80
weight: 4
accuracy: 127
difficulty: 5
speed rating: 87
missile speed: 20
weapon length: 80
max ammo: 3
thrust damage: 40 pierce

New Jarids:
missile speed: 20
weapon length: 80
weight: 4
accuracy: 123
difficulty: 5
speed rating: 87
missile speed: 20
weapon length: 80
max ammo: 4
thrust damage: 36 pierce

Old Throwing spears:
missile speed: 18
weapon length: 80
weight: 4
accuracy: 119
difficulty: 6
speed rating: 85
missile speed: 18
weapon length: 80
max ammo: 4
thrust damage: 36 pierce

New throwing spears:
missile speed: 18
weapon length: 80
weight: 4
accuracy: 114
difficulty: 6
speed rating: 85
missile speed: 18
weapon length: 80
max ammo: 5
thrust damage: 34 pierce

Old Javelins:
missile speed: 19
weapon length: 76
weight: 4
accuracy: 113
difficulty: 3
speed rating: 89
missile speed: 19
weapon length: 76
max ammo: 3
thrust damage: 33 pierce

New Javelins:
missile speed: 19
weapon length: 76
weight: 4
accuracy: 110
difficulty: 3
speed rating: 89
missile speed: 19
weapon length: 76
max ammo: 4
thrust damage: 32 pierce

Old Heavy throwing axe :
missile speed: 15
weapon length: 53
weight: 2.7
accuracy: 126
difficulty: 4
speed rating: 95
missile speed: 15
weapon length: 53
max ammo: 2
thrust damage: 47 cut

New Heavy throwing axe:
missile speed: 15
weapon length: 53
weight: 2.7
accuracy: 123
difficulty: 4
speed rating: 95
missile speed: 15
weapon length: 53
max ammo: 3
thrust damage: 43 cut
Also its really need to nerf thrust damage for all weapons - 2h, 1h, pole.
About crossbows - i played it from 1 to 33lvl and i can say honestly - most op class atm. i suggest thouse changes:

Old    arbalest ranks.
                               Regular   Well Made    Exquisite    Masterwork
Speed                              60                   +1                   +1           +2
Thrust damage                85                   +2                   +3           +4
Missile  speed                  60                   +1                   +1           +2
Accuracy                           91                   +1                   +2           +3

New arb. ranks
                               Regular   Well Made    Exquisite    Masterwork
Speed                              60            +2                    +3           +6
Thrust damage                85            +0                   +0           +1
Missile  speed                  60            +1                   +2           +3
Accuracy                           91            +1                   +2           +4     

Old Steel bolts ranks:
                              Regular           Sharp         Well Made        Masterwork
Thrust damage:     8                     +1              +2                    +3
Ammo:                   12                   +1              +1                    +1     
 
New Steel bolts ranks:   
                              Regular           Sharp         Well Made        Masterwork
Thrust damage:     8                     +0             +0                    +0
Ammo:                   5                     +2             +4                    +7                     

And btw we should remove nudge from throwing weapon, its abuse when u finally come close to thrower he just threw u in 3 metters away with a fucking jarid, and then throw into u again.
Most of thouse changes are sugested to avoid one shots.

My opinion - one shots must be only in head :!: :!: :!:
Title: Re: Item balance
Post by: Grumbs on January 24, 2014, 03:09:57 pm
I don't know how I would change the xbows stats tbh. I wouldn't just change the Arbalast, and don't think i'd make it more accurate

Maybe increase reload speed and reduce damage and missile speed a bit across the board
Title: Re: Item balance
Post by: Tzar on January 24, 2014, 05:15:41 pm
If this got in, ive would respec back to thrower instantly  :!:
Title: Re: Item balance
Post by: sF_Guardian on January 24, 2014, 07:10:21 pm
Don't like theese propositions.
Title: Re: Item balance
Post by: Tydeus on January 24, 2014, 08:28:13 pm
I don't mean to rain on the parade or anything, and thanks for the interest, but are you aware that all of these changes would actually result in rather large buffs for ranged? The arbalest for example, would become the most accurate weapon in the entire mod. Also, I'm kind of baffled as to why you think throwing should lose accuracy. Last I checked, throwing was not only incredibly inaccurate(so much so, that it's more appropriate to congratulate the person on the receiving end of a HS for a nice catch), but it also has very slow projectile speeds.

Why make things more inaccurate, which essentially just increases the affects of RNG and reduces player skill? You're just increasing the frequency of random headshots which certainly don't make players enjoy the game more. When I get HSed, I want to know it's because the player was aiming for my head, not because his crosshairs were on my feet and "just got lucky".
Title: Re: Item balance
Post by: Pandor_Archer on January 24, 2014, 08:41:29 pm
I don't mean to rain on the parade or anything, and thanks for the interest, but are you aware that all of these changes would actually result in rather large buffs for ranged? The arbalest for example, would become the most accurate weapon in the entire mod. Also, I'm kind of baffled as to why you think throwing should lose accuracy. Last I checked, throwing was not only incredibly inaccurate(so much so, that it's more appropriate to congratulate the person on the receiving end of a HS for a nice catch), but it also has very slow projectile speeds.

Why make things more inaccurate, which essentially just increases the affects of RNG and reduces player skill? You're just increasing the frequency of random headshots which certainly don't make players enjoy the game more. When I get HSed, I want to know it's because the player was aiming for my head, not because his crosshairs were on my feet and "just got lucky".
Accuracy not changing size of crosshair. arbalest is most accurate atm btw, lowering dmg will force crossbowmans aiming for head.
This thread not about nerf, its rebalancing :!: :!: :!:
Title: Re: Item balance
Post by: Tydeus on January 24, 2014, 08:51:59 pm
Might need someone to translate here. Weapon stats aren't straight forward, particularly for ranged weapons. Damage and accuracy both affect the size of the crosshair. Lowering weapon damage reduces the size of the crosshair, increasing accuracy also reduces the size of the crosshair. Both of which you proposed doing. Accuracy is changing the size of the crosshair. You're right though, this thread isn't about nerfing, it's actually buffs in disguise.  :D
Title: Re: Item balance
Post by: Pandor_Archer on January 24, 2014, 09:16:01 pm
Might need someone to translate here. Weapon stats aren't straight forward, particularly for ranged weapons. Damage and accuracy both affect the size of the crosshair. Lowering weapon damage reduces the size of the crosshair, increasing accuracy also reduces the size of the crosshair. Both of which you proposed doing. Accuracy is changing the size of the crosshair. You're right though, this thread isn't about nerfing, it's actually buffs in disguise.  :D
Tested million times, long time ago when i was an archer, accuracy did not change the size of crosshair.
Title: Re: Item balance
Post by: Pandor_Archer on January 24, 2014, 09:19:17 pm
Even if so, lowering damage will get rid of body oneshots, and force ppl to aim for head.
Title: Re: Item balance
Post by: Tydeus on January 24, 2014, 09:28:29 pm
Tested million times, long time ago when i was an archer, accuracy did not change the size of crosshair.
Then I would suggest testing for the 1 million and first time.

(click to show/hide)

I never said lowering damage was a bad idea by itself. I even gave Grumbs a +1 for his suggestion, as I agreed with it.
Title: Re: Item balance
Post by: Pandor_Archer on January 24, 2014, 09:48:28 pm
Then I would suggest testing for the 1 million and first time.

(click to show/hide)

Long time ago long bow had crazy accuracy, and i using it with only 120 wpf (crosshair was huge) but arrow goes strait at the middle of crosshair, no matter how huge it was) so if u aim well, arrow wont miss. and it was 40+ dmg xD
after it there was tons of patches that changes bows and i saw no difference in size of crosshair. only amount of wpf change it.
Title: Re: Item balance
Post by: Tydeus on January 24, 2014, 10:08:39 pm
Here's a way to test. If you'll notice, both the Tatar Bow and the Nomad bows have the same accuracy but different damage values. Take a screenshot of your character with 2 PD using the Nomad bow at 1 wpf, then take a screenshot with 3PD and 1 wpf using a Tatar Bow. You should see that the Nomad bow has a tighter crosshair. Another test you can do to see the effects of accuracy, is try a Bow at 4PD with 1 wpf, screenshot your crosshair, then try a Yumi at 6PD with 1 wpf and take another screenshot. As you flip through the screenshots, you should see significant differences. Finally, all I can say about the correlation between reticule size and accuracy, is that if you don't think the reticule size affects accuracy, you're doing tests with too short of range.
Title: Re: Item balance
Post by: Pandor_Archer on January 24, 2014, 10:41:44 pm
Here's a way to test. If you'll notice, both the Tatar Bow and the Nomad bows have the same accuracy but different damage values. Take a screenshot of your character with 2 PD using the Nomad bow at 1 wpf, then take a screenshot with 3PD and 1 wpf using a Tatar Bow. You should see that the Nomad bow has a tighter crosshair. Another test you can do to see the effects of accuracy, is try a Bow at 4PD with 1 wpf, screenshot your crosshair, then try a Yumi at 6PD with 1 wpf and take another screenshot. As you flip through the screenshots, you should see significant differences. Finally, all I can say about the correlation between reticule size and accuracy, is that if you don't think the reticule size affects accuracy, you're doing tests with too short of range.
PD is changing crosshair, so to test accuracy we need to test with same PD.
Title: Re: Item balance
Post by: Pandor_Archer on January 24, 2014, 10:45:42 pm
The best way to test is 5 pd horn compair with nomad (same 101 accuracy) but different damage.
Title: Re: Item balance
Post by: Pandor_Archer on January 24, 2014, 10:59:27 pm
Tested, i have compaired mw horn with regular, accuracy decreas size of crosshair.
Gona make some changes in my sugestion.
Title: Re: Item balance
Post by: Pandor_Archer on January 24, 2014, 11:05:07 pm
I don't mean to rain on the parade or anything, and thanks for the interest, but are you aware that all of these changes would actually result in rather large buffs for ranged? The arbalest for example, would become the most accurate weapon in the entire mod. Also, I'm kind of baffled as to why you think throwing should lose accuracy. Last I checked, throwing was not only incredibly inaccurate(so much so, that it's more appropriate to congratulate the person on the receiving end of a HS for a nice catch), but it also has very slow projectile speeds.

Why make things more inaccurate, which essentially just increases the affects of RNG and reduces player skill? You're just increasing the frequency of random headshots which certainly don't make players enjoy the game more. When I get HSed, I want to know it's because the player was aiming for my head, not because his crosshairs were on my feet and "just got lucky".
So throwing got decreased damage as well as accuracy, its means crosshair will remain the same.
Title: Re: Item balance
Post by: Tydeus on January 25, 2014, 03:07:05 pm
Tested, i have compaired mw horn with regular, accuracy decreas size of crosshair.
Gona make some changes in my sugestion.
PD is changing crosshair, so to test accuracy we need to test with same PD.
Each additional PD over a bow's requirement will reduce the size of the reticule, so you do actually want to test with only enough PD to use each specific bow.
Title: Re: Item balance
Post by: Smoothrich on January 26, 2014, 09:08:45 am
God damn Tydeus, you are being super helpful about explaining game mechanics and engaging someone who posted balance suggestions with a real conversation.

You should learn from Urist and just call anyone who suggests anything or gets a mechanic wrong a blowhard idiot, shit on the thread, and never discuss it again.
Title: Re: Item balance
Post by: AssProber on January 26, 2014, 12:32:53 pm
To be reasonably accurate at range with throwing you need to specialise in it, meaning no WPF in melee (or very low). 2nd, the limited ammo restricts throwers going too crazy. 1 shielder vs a thrower, the shielder should win everytime. Hell a 2H can beat a thrower, even if hes kitted out with just throwing, happens all the time, another problem is you dont REALISE throwings weaknesses because you only notice them when they've killed you.

a lot of the time i see people are punishing others for either becoming good at the game, or putting in a lot of time and reaching higher levels.
Title: Re: Item balance
Post by: spiritus on January 27, 2014, 06:13:44 am
fuk no all u did was give a little less accuracy and dmg which would still be similar accuracy but but but but u gave an extra fuking projectile... throwing lances would get 2/3s extra damage added on! from 60 pierce to 100 pierce since you get 2 of them!!! thrower would have more dps yet less power per throw!
Title: Re: Item balance
Post by: Andswaru on January 27, 2014, 06:43:19 am
Throwing is hard as fuck compared to anything else here, they deserve all the help they can get. Nice changes looking foward to seeing how it plays out...

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Title: Re: Item balance
Post by: Pandor_Archer on January 27, 2014, 09:26:11 am
fuk no all u did was give a little less accuracy and dmg which would still be similar accuracy but but but but u gave an extra fuking projectile... throwing lances would get 2/3s extra damage added on! from 60 pierce to 100 pierce since you get 2 of them!!! thrower would have more dps yet less power per throw!
Throwing isnt easy like archering or crossbowing, so giving them more projectiles isnt gaurantees that thous projectiles will reach its targets, but there will be less oneshots.