What if the devs put up some (not too many) "trades" gloves for gauntlets on the marketplace.
Giving the opportunity to swap without introducing more looms to the economy
What is "scammy" about those traders?(click to show/hide)
Why not just wait until our new best-cRPG-person Zagibu!!! implements more items and then we could request loom respec.
Well this is lobbying on my part, but I find loom respec silly way of dealing with things. All they should do is make leveling much faster and at the same time make increase needed XP for high levels (35 and beyond). That way, everyone will have the chance to get many masterworked items.Even sillier is letting things be like they are. I guess nobody wants to go through all of this again just to get 1 more +3 item, that's also why that system that I was thinking about would work better than what we have now. Never again would it be problematic that you change stats of items or add new ones or sth because people would be able to re-apply points after some time.
What is "scammy" about those traders?
They allow people not to wait few weeks to finally trade their looms for what they want to get. For that, they take some money.
I personally would gladly add 50-70k to get the loom I want quickly, not sure, maybe you prefer to wait a lot with our low market population and maybe after two weeks you'll get your "fair" trade...
Supply/demand rule is never wrong.
Why not just wait until our new best-cRPG-person Zagibu!!! implements more items and then we could request loom respec.(click to show/hide)
What makes you think that I would be against a less restrictive loom system? I would love that. People shouldn't have to wait for several weeks on the marketplace until they get the item they like.
Same goes for respeccs and so on...
I don't know if you would have anything against it but it would just remove the marketplace or at least looms from it, which means that you would have as many lps available with each loompoint reassign as you've earned via retiring +current_overwealth_compensation. This would leave people who are gen 15 and have 20-30MWs with way less MWs. Obviously some sort of formula that would adjust the amout of lps assigned to such people would take into account that those people had so much wealth (gold and MWs) so players that have been trading a lot would end up with significantly more wealth than they would if the formula was just based on the gens of the chars of the player.
tl;dr: Merchants would have less MWs but for anyone who isn't gaining benefits on marketplace it would be just better.
Now think about how many MWs you have now and how many you'd have only from retiring & from gold gained while playing and tell me how many MWs you'd have if the number was right between those numbers.
Why would you take away looms from people who have worked hard for them? Who would profit from this? Nobody!
Sounds stupid in my opinion and will just piss off lots of players. Also no need to completly remove the marketplace.
Just allow everybody to transform a +1/+2/+3 item into 1/2/3 loompoints for a certain amount of gold (25/50/75k - 50/100/150k for example would be reasonable imo).
trading is part of every society, the point of trading is making more money than you spend because otherwise it isn't worth your time. No need to remove that..Having market would make no sense if you could just respec your Lps every now&then.
Also please tell me 'hard-working' Erzengel what is your gen.You could also, without having to make a separate post, ask him how many MWs he has, while you're on it.
You could also, without having to make a separate post, ask him how many MWs he has, while you're on it.I have posted that earlier. Here is the source http://forum.melee.org/selltrade/erzengel's-new-shop!/ I think he trades only his gear so I assume it's all his.
fuck this, thread is derailed anyway. I have posted a long ass post somewhere over these forums about this. I don't want to type this all again. Summing up, I don't think that for your 'hard' marketplace-work you should be allowed to respec loompoints from 30+ MWs. That's why I placed there a balance formula because I don't think it would be fair if abusive marketplace users kept 100% of their MWs. Also people who fucked up their looms would get lps back because they are gen X so they would have X-1 lps on that char to place. You'd also have a shop feature of buying and selling LP if you wanted to keep a loompoint or prefered gold. It would have positive features of a marketplace but wouldn't allow for extensive marketabuse. Also you'd be able to respec your LPs each 2-3 weeks (or something, depending how much cooldown would last) and therefore it would allow changes for the poor that would like to try going shielder from an archer but don't want to sell both bow and arrows to get shielder's stuff because they don't know how much it would take them to get them back if they disliked shielder or sth.
Making looms cheaper is always better than removing looms. Best way to make looms cheaper is to drastically increase leveling speed but to keep current gold gain.
The value of the loompoints would be established by some sort of balancer. I wrote about buying them in the shop somewhere in previous posts. Leveling is piece of shit but it's different subject.
You mention loom respec? Okay, we get it once and what will happen when they add more gear, another loom respec? Too much of a hassle. Let the market fix that.
I am all the time talking about your own loom respec! Like you can respec skip the fun whenever you want, but respec happening to the loompoints and having some sort of short-medium cooldown
I am not abusing the marketplace. I am just asking for a reasonable price for my items. If I am looking for a rare/good item which I like I am also willing to pay a very good price for it. It is all about supply and demand...
I am not putting up scam offers. I am just checking the marketplace and accept offers which look good to me.
Of course I am trying to make profit, but I am never scamming other players. My trades are always fair and much better than the average marketplace offers. Some weeks ago a player bought my Long Hafted Blade for 2 loom points and 150k gold. He sent me a message and told me that he was looking for a Long Hafted Spiked Mace and not for a Long Hafted Blade. He instantly got his stuff back.
So no idea what's wrong with that.
You want looms for the time you spent ingame for leveling. I can understand this. But I also want to keep the looms which I got from spending lots of time on the marketplace. Both are part of the game.
What do you get if other people lose some of their looms? Sorry, but sounds like you are just a little bit jealous...
Yes if you got 23MWs instead of 30 it would be very sad and depressing, especially if you could respec them from time to time for free.
Blaming people because they are smart enough to use the marketplace is quite lame.
Why force devs to spend time on coding new stuff, when it's easier to create deflation?Because they have done it easily with loom respec loooong time ago ~2,5-3 years ago so I think that now that they are way more experienced it wouldn't take this much of the work. Idea is very simple. When you say something like "coding new stuff" you make it look like it's really something new while it's actually respec option that does to you something that they did looong time ago.
BlueKnight, overall your argument doesn't make sense. "Remove marketplace because 'broken'(?) and people who have patience and invest time into trading should lose everything they traded for because I don't have the patience to do it myself, thus it is not fair(?)".
You sound like a commie. :rolleyes:
That's also why I strongly stay with my opinion that merchants should keep some of their additional wealth as a pay for their work, but they shouldn't keep everything because marketplace is broken.
That's why I placed there a balance formula because I don't think it would be fair if abusive marketplace users kept 100% of their MWs.
I don't know if you have anything against it but it would just remove the marketplace or at least looms from it, which means that you would have as many lps available with each loompoint reassign as you've earned via retiring +current_overwealth_compensation. This would leave people who are gen 15 and have 20-30MWs with way less MWs. Obviously some sort of formula that would adjust the amout of lps assigned to such people would take into account that those people had so much wealth (gold and MWs) so players that have been trading a lot would end up with significantly more wealth than they would if the formula was just based on the gens of the chars of the player.Once it would be introduced it would once change the amount of looms of the over_rich it would make them have lps between how much they had and how much they earned themselves. Those who left crpg would have their lps back, they could place them in armoury or sth.
tl;dr: Merchants would have less MWs but for anyone who isn't gaining benefits on marketplace it would be just better.
Now think about how many MWs you have now and how many you'd have only from retiring & from gold gained while playing and tell me how many MWs you'd have if the number was right between those numbers.
You're still saying the marketplace should be abolished, or at least modified until every trade is equal so no gain is possible, making the marketplace useless. And you're still saying people who have invested time in the market and earned wealth fairly should have some of it taken. How does any of this make sense or seem fair? :rolleyes:You say it's not fair for them. Do you say it's fair that players earn twice+ as many lps on marketplace than in game? How much work did it cost really?
You're still saying the marketplace should be abolished, or at least modified until every trade is equal so no gain is possible, making the marketplace useless.Marketplace isn't useless because it allows you to get the item that you want for your item or some sort of equivalent. You wouldn't need any equivalent from anyone if you could just respec your loompoints. therefore marketplace would be useless and wouldn't be a source of abusive, easy income.
You'd be surprised. However, anyone can do this. It's completely fair, because its not restricted to certain people, the marketplace is available for literally everyone. You're simply saying, since you don't use the marketplace for gain, no one else should be able to. That's ridiculous, lol :lol:I have given away 3MWs and 1 +1 item and gold once that I quit crpg. By clever use of marketplace [I mean selling 2lps+gold for 3 items (which is fair and ok if you keep reasonable offers)] and playing I managed to get now to the state that I have my own 14MWs (=value of 42 lps) while playing for 39 gens=39 lps value. I got what I wanted and I don't abuse the marketplace to get myself 40MWs just for sake of being rich. I used marketplace right. Didn't abuse it yet managed to earn something. I got 13 more lps value, not 60lps value like some others...
I have given away 3MWs and 1 +1 item and gold once that I quit crpg. By clever use of marketplace [I mean selling 2lps+gold for 3 items (which is fair and ok if you keep reasonable offers)] and playing I managed to get now to the state that I have my own 14MWs (=value of 42 lps) while playing for 39 gens=39 lps value. I got what I wanted and I don't abuse the marketplace to get myself 40MWs just for sake of being rich. I used marketplace right. Didn't abuse it yet managed to earn something.Now tell me please how can marketplace be "abusive" if both players have agree on each trade? Why do you think they do these trades if it's unfair?
Now tell me please how can marketplace be "abusive" if both players have agree on each trade? Why do you think they do these trades if it's unfair?So according to you, if and old and naive grandma buys some unnecessary piece of shit for her small pension it's ok because she decided to do it and she agreed to that trade? For example she bought a new holy statue or a holy poster or a new cleaning foam that is just as good as any other, just more expensive.
chadz once said he likes the marketplace metagame.It totally makes me now love marketplace. Best winning point ever. chadz said something.
Macropus beat me to it. There is no such thing as "abusive" use of the marketplace. There are shitty offers, but you don't have to accept them. If someone offers 700k for say, a +3 Longsword and some guy actually gives his Longsword for 700k, it was his choice. And people who trade up to 30 MW items spent the time and effort to do so, just as you did to get your 15 MW items. I really don't see what you're arguing for, lol.The difference is that if you don't take bad offers and don't try to rip off people you will earn something but it won't be 19 raw Masterworks just from fair trades. From my fair trades I got ~4MWs and I consider it ok when set with all of those that I earned by leveling. Can't you see any difference between 4:13 ratio and 19:7?
So according to you, if and old and naive grandma buys some unnecessary piece of shit for her small pension it's ok because she decided to do it and she agreed to that trade?Do you assume that new players that use marketplace don't even know how many loompoints it takes to make a MW item yet? So that they actually pay more than they would like to if they had more information? I don't really get how's your example even relevant.
For example she bought a new holy statue or a holy poster or a new cleaning foam that is just as good as any other, just more expensive.And she succeeded, if what she bought is easily and quickly accessible, while to get cheaper one she'd have to wait much longer (and this is how things are in c-rpg marketplace).
Do you assume that new players that use marketplace don't even know how many loompoints it takes to make a MW item yet? So that they actually pay more than they would like to if they had more information? I don't really get how's your example even relevant. And she succeeded, if what she bought is easily and quickly accessible, while to get cheaper one she'd have to wait much longer (and this is how things are in c-rpg marketplace).I will just wait until someone earns his money on the naivety of your grandma when she buys some sort of "new" TV that she doesn't need and that is actually 3 times as expensive as in a shop. We will see if you find it ok then. She agreed after all.
I will just wait until someone earns his money on the naivety of your grandma when she buys some sort of "new" TV that she doesn't need and that is actually 3 times as expensive as in a shop. We will see if you find it ok then. She agreed after all.My grandma is dead. Think we better stick to the topic of the discussion (which atm seems to be marketplace, not gloves, lol), instead of giving irrelevant examples.
My grandma is dead. Think we better stick to the topic of the discussion (which atm seems to be marketplace, not gloves, lol), instead of giving irrelevant examples.It doesn't have to be a new player. It can be just a player who hasn't been following marketplace closely or never really uses it. He sees some offers, only 1 or two match his thing and he's rich enough to buy it so he buys it because he has no comparison and can't see other offers that are better for him so he thinks that this is the value of the thing and he overpays 70-100k. Also don't tell me that all of those are just impatient people that want things badly and can throw away 70-100k like it's nothing instead of waiting 2-6 days. If they give a fair offer the deal will be done quite quickly.
If I got it right, you say that the problem is that some traders make "unfair" offers which get accepted only by new people that don't know what is what in this game.
Now if that's the case, there is a "New market rule" to prevent scamming. Although, I don't see how a player who earned a loomed item already could possibly not know what it's worth of.
What seems much more realistic to me is that those offers get accepted by people who want that exact thing fast, so they are ready to add some gold for that, since the alternative would be making their own offer and waiting (perhaps for a week) till it gets accepted. I don't get how is that not obvious and not fair to you.
Yes instead of waiting however long, I used to frequently throw away gold to get the item I wanted, right then, when I was still retiring and constantly changing my build. There's nothing wrong with it, I got what I wanted, the trader got what he wanted.Don't derail please :mrgreen:
Don't derail please :mrgreen:
lol, commies. gg :rolleyes:Fuck you, I'm not a commie. Sorry but your ignorance just makes me mad. it's like 3rd time you said something totally false about me making a thought of me IRL and my intelligence just by my posts.
Why not just wait until our new best-cRPG-person Zagibu!!! implements more items and then we could request loom respec.(click to show/hide)