cRPG

Off Topic => General Off Topic => Topic started by: pepejul on December 27, 2013, 03:41:25 pm

Title: Believe in God...
Post by: pepejul on December 27, 2013, 03:41:25 pm
how can you still believe after this funny stand up ?

So true !
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Teeth on December 27, 2013, 03:42:53 pm
How can you make such threads in General Discussion?
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: pepejul on December 27, 2013, 03:45:52 pm
It is not a general discussion about what you believe in ?

Can put it where you want... where ?  :mrgreen:


;
;
;
;
;
;
;
;

not in my ass, thanks...
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Radament on December 27, 2013, 03:47:27 pm
there's no option for Satanists  :twisted:
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Moncho on December 27, 2013, 03:50:14 pm
It is not a general discussion about what you believe in ?

Can put it where you want... where ?  :mrgreen:


;
;
;
;
;
;
;
;

not in my ass, thanks...

It is not general discussion about cRPG, but about other stuff, so it would belong in General Off-topic.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: pepejul on December 27, 2013, 03:57:04 pm
there's no option for Satanists  :twisted:

done =)
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: pepejul on December 27, 2013, 03:57:34 pm
It is not general discussion about cRPG, but about other stuff, so it would belong in General Off-topic.

aow..yeah.... ok...I hope admins will changeit so..

thank you !  :wink:
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: StormFaction on December 27, 2013, 04:01:06 pm
Read the sig baby.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Maksimus on December 27, 2013, 04:11:40 pm
Really, the man from the video don't know anything about God. If he was atleast like Mother Teresa, Smith Wigglesworth or Lester Sumrall, and did more then they did, then he can talk about it. But I think he dont have enough brains and experience to discuss about God.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on December 27, 2013, 04:16:55 pm
Really, the man from the video don't know anything about God. If he was atleast like Mother Teresa, Smith Wigglesworth or Lester Sumrall, and did more then they did, then he can talk about it. But I think he dont have enough brains and experience to discuss about God.
Dispute his statements instead of just shittalking him, shitbird.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Maksimus on December 27, 2013, 04:20:27 pm
Dispute his statements instead of just shittalking him, shitbird.
I can easily, But dont know english very well to dispute. I just say that to talk about something seriously, you have to be in it, if no then it just bla bla bla...
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: pepejul on December 27, 2013, 04:22:16 pm
I can easily, But dont know english very well to dispute. I just say that to talk about something seriously, you have to be in it, if no then it just bla bla bla...

Did you find something wrong or false in his sketch ? he knows very well religion...he tried to believe... but... just look around you..

How can you believe ?
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Penitent on December 27, 2013, 04:23:06 pm
No, this guy is not very smart.  He's a comedian but misunderstands much about what religion is really about.

Anyways, move to spam.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Maksimus on December 27, 2013, 04:27:35 pm
Did you find something wrong or false in his sketch ? he knows very well religion...he tried to believe... but... just look around you..

How can you believe ?
Well, I believe in God about 9 years. And really guys I was the same mind as you before I met him and his miracles. I thought that those believers are just weak and some bad words) But I know what the real power now, cant be said in words, if you didn't see God, then you won't understand me
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on December 27, 2013, 04:28:06 pm
I can easily, But dont know english very well to dispute. I just say that to talk about something seriously, you have to be in it, if no then it just bla bla bla...
I'll start a cult that molests children, unless you're in my cult you can't judge me!
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Maksimus on December 27, 2013, 04:29:41 pm
I don't lol
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: pepejul on December 27, 2013, 04:32:56 pm
we don't say you are wrong to believe... I just want to understand WHY....

You talk about miracle... let me ask something :

A house burned with 10 members of a family inside. All died except little girl...

Beliver will see the miracle : she survived !!!

I will see the 9 deads...

how can you believe in God ?
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Penitent on December 27, 2013, 04:33:34 pm
Internet-young-adult-atheist circle jerk most OP class. 

Too many of them on CRPG is ruining the forum experience.  Pls nerf to reduce their numbers.

Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Molly on December 27, 2013, 04:34:18 pm
I don't lol
I did. And he's kinda right... :lol:


btw... George Carlin is awesome!
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Osiris on December 27, 2013, 04:35:06 pm
If there was some almighty being(s) who created everything or at least exist on a higher level and toyed with us i would be much more inclined to believe in polytheism. One true christian god is for me complete and utter BS :P Ricky Gervais (even if he isn't funny) put it rather well.


Quote
The dictionary definition of God is “a supernatural creator and overseer of the universe.” Included in this definition are all deities, goddesses and supernatural beings. Since the beginning of recorded history, which is defined by the invention of writing by the Sumerians around 6,000 years ago, historians have cataloged over 3700 supernatural beings, of which 2870 can be considered deities.

So next time someone tells me they believe in God, I’ll say “Oh which one? Zeus? Hades? Jupiter? Mars? Odin? Thor? Krishna? Vishnu? Ra?…” If they say “Just God. I only believe in the one God,” I’ll point out that they are nearly as atheistic as me. I don’t believe in 2,870 gods, and they don’t believe in 2,869.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: pepejul on December 27, 2013, 04:36:50 pm
Osiris, I loled ! TY
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: LordBerenger on December 27, 2013, 04:37:16 pm
The 3rd to last option. Belief in God but not in institutional religions.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Maksimus on December 27, 2013, 04:40:20 pm
we don't say you are wrong to believe... I just want to understand WHY....

You talk about miracle... let me ask something :

A house burned with 10 members of a family inside. All died except little girl...

Beliver will see the miracle : she survived !!!

I will see the 9 deads...

how can you believe in God ?
First of all not God made it, second if you dont believe God then dont expect something to get from Him. I saw how blind people became able to see, and many other, I heard the God myself and had prophesies, so I just cant to not to believe)
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Tyr_ on December 27, 2013, 04:43:50 pm
I heard the God myself and had prophesies

I have them too every now and then, though i get some help in order to do so
(click to show/hide)

Now excuse me, i need to find that lamp in some online store.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Molly on December 27, 2013, 04:44:37 pm
First of all not God made it, second if you dont believe God then dont expect something to get from Him. I saw how blind people became able to see, and many other, I heard the God myself and had prophesies, so I just cant to not to believe)
You should probably stop eating those mushrooms you find in your backyard.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: pepejul on December 27, 2013, 04:44:52 pm
Miracle.... prophesies.... can you tell us more ?
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Maksimus on December 27, 2013, 04:47:57 pm
Oh guys you are just kidding me. I'll stop or I will collect million points of infamy
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Penitent on December 27, 2013, 04:49:01 pm
Miracle.... prophesies.... can you tell us more ?

A group of people ridiculing and making fun of someone's personal beliefs and experiences -- laughing to themselves and to others -- and you ask him for more? :)

I'd PM him if you are serious about learning more.  Just a suggestion. :)
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: pepejul on December 27, 2013, 05:03:52 pm
I REALLY want to know... but I NEVER found someone to explain me, ton convince me... I should be happy to believe but, actually, I can't...

Pple who believe...please give me ONE reason and I will convert into your religion, I promise....

I m not moking...
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Leesin on December 27, 2013, 05:04:55 pm
I'm agnostic because I can't know for sure there is or there isn't some kind of higher being and even if there is, it's probably nothing like any person has written or claimed it to be. So until these beings come to me, slap me in the face and tell me they're real, religions can go fuck themself because they have as much weight as a fairy tale when it comes to factual evidence.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Panos_ on December 27, 2013, 05:07:54 pm
second if you dont believe God then dont expect something to get from Him. I saw how blind people became able to see, and many other, I heard the God myself and had prophesies, so I just cant to not to believe)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on December 27, 2013, 05:13:55 pm
I don't lol
It's not supposed to be funny, I'm merely using the simplest way possible to shut down your idiotic argument.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on December 27, 2013, 05:15:09 pm
I REALLY want to know... but I NEVER found someone to explain me, ton convince me... I should be happy to believe but, actually, I can't...

Pple who believe...please give me ONE reason and I will convert into your religion, I promise....

I m not moking...
The holy church of Mork the goat god got orgies, that's a reason, heck, in fact a good reason.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Teeth on December 27, 2013, 05:17:30 pm
George Carlin is what disproves the existence of a god for you? The whole 'lelelel man in the sky dumb fairytales' argument is pretty shortsighted in my opinion. Considering that for an atheist world view you still have to believe in extremely abstract concepts, like a never ending universe or the big bang and a dimension like time. Is a sentient and omnipotent being all that much more ridiculous?

The whole 'urgh world is so bad, there can't be a god' argument isn't that compelling to me either. We only know of one world, what do we know whether it is all that good or bad? Even if, who says god is trying to create a perfect world. What is perfect in the eyes of god, what is good and bad? I for one think that good is only defined through bad, and that a fulfilling live requires bad things otherwise the good things will not satisfy you. In most religions there is an explanation for the existence of evil and the bad things in the world anyway, what would the point of an awesome afterlife be if things were all great and dandy down here?

Apart from that he has some critical points on specifically certain Christian behaviour which does very little to disprove the existence of a god.

That said, even though I would like there to be a god, because the finiteness of life terrifies me, from what I can see there is no way to be sure whether a god exists or doesn't exist, so I roll with the Atheist's Wager until I have some supernatural experience.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheist's_Wager
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Maksimus on December 27, 2013, 05:17:40 pm
Pepe if you want really to know more, the watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YR0GcJAeAE
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Tydeus on December 27, 2013, 05:18:44 pm
I REALLY want to know... but I NEVER found someone to explain me, ton convince me... I should be happy to believe but, actually, I can't...

Pple who believe...please give me ONE reason and I will convert into your religion, I promise....

I m not moking...
There's only one reason: To ease the pain and fear of death. All of religion's other functions can (and generally are) better fulfilled elsewhere.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: SixThumbs on December 27, 2013, 05:25:38 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: [ptx] on December 27, 2013, 05:28:50 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Penitent on December 27, 2013, 05:36:01 pm
I REALLY want to know... but I NEVER found someone to explain me, ton convince me... I should be happy to believe but, actually, I can't...

Pple who believe...please give me ONE reason and I will convert into your religion, I promise....

I m not moking...

Sure, I can give you a reason.  There are lots of reasons, and everyone is different so maybe everyone has different reasons that motivate them.  But I'll give you one good one that you can think about.  Even though I risk downvotes and ridicule -- because I actually find non-believers more militant in their belief than most religious people.  :)

You obviously have a curious mind, and a critical one, so this is good.  It's necessary for any true faith.  We should understand that something as culturally and historically rich as faith cannot be just swiped away by a comedian with 10 minutes of air time.  This a phenomenon common to all cultures for countless thousands of years and is ingrained into the human psyche.  A few clever jokes isn't going to prove anything --just like this internet post isn't going to prove anything.  You can't prove it, one way or the other.  It's impossible.  Something like the "spiritual" realm that exists outside of space and time also exists outside of the human senses and beyond the reach of tools like logic -- though our senses and logic can still help us here.

This post is getting long already, and I haven't even given the reason yet!  I had to do an introduction, since something like faith/spirituality is so rich and has such a history you can't deal with it using a TL;DR or a flippant joke if you want to seriously consider the possibility of it being legit.  If there is even a tiny possibility of it God real, the tiniest chance that we have a soul that lives forever after we die, then it is literally more important than life and death and we should treat is seriously and respectfully.  Anyone who says there is absolutely no chance that God or religion is real has to re-check their sample size -- because they haven't thought out their position thoroughly and there isn't enough evidence available to say that.  That's why I have respect for agnostics but little patience for true atheists. :)

So this is the reason:  You will die.  We all will.  There is no avoiding it.  Atheists tend to  be (but are not always) young people with little thought towards the end of their life -- and this is normal.  But it is good to come to terms with our mortality and the consequences of it early and often.  When you die, and there is the smallest chance that God has been trying to get you to get to know Him and you've completely ignored him -- you may not be in a good place.  However, if you choose to believe during this life and then you die and it turns out you were wrong -- there are no consequences and you'll just rot in the ground.  You have everything to gain and literally nothing to lose.  This is a common reasoning given during such discussions, and I do not expect you or anyone else to magically believe because of this, but it's a start.  There is little harm in believing, but the potential benefit is unlimited.  It can also have benefits in this life while you're still around.

There are lots of other reasons -- and lots of better reasons to be honest, but maybe this will get you or some other people thinking about the last things when all else passes away.  Good luck to you!
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: pepejul on December 27, 2013, 05:43:34 pm
LOL.. you say the only reason to believe is... the fear of death ? (or after death)

Ok... ok... but I m not scared by death. My corpse will become worm food, dust and mineral things who make trees grow. Who cares ? I will me bead and my children will be still alive... Gentically I will survive inside them (50 % each)

We don't need God or religion to be good men during our life. You can do good things for your children, for your brothers on earth and not just to save your selfish soul !

EDIT : I m not young pple, I have 2 children... believer are children in their mind (mummy-God ! I m scared ! Help me !)

Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Penitent on December 27, 2013, 05:45:37 pm
LOL..the only reason to believe is... the fear of death !

Ok... ok... but I m not scared by death. We don't need God or religion to be good men during our life. You can do good things for your children, for your brothers on earth and not just to save your selfish soul !

You are misunderstanding what is being said, it's a little more complicated that that.  Meme's, clipart, and comedian sound bytes aren't going to do this discussion justice.  You are mocking, and have already made up your mind.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: pepejul on December 27, 2013, 05:48:30 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


No..sorry...I can't
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Maksimus on December 27, 2013, 05:51:39 pm
LOL.. you say the only reason to believe is... the fear of death ? (or after death)
You see only what you want to see. Seems that you just want people to agry with you, you don't want to find the truth or God. You just believe in what fits your life. Put me more infamy Pepe) watch the video)
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Xant on December 27, 2013, 06:22:29 pm
George Carlin is what disproves the existence of a god for you? The whole 'lelelel man in the sky dumb fairytales' argument is pretty shortsighted in my opinion. Considering that for an atheist world view you still have to believe in extremely abstract concepts, like a never ending universe or the big bang and a dimension like time. Is a sentient and omnipotent being all that much more ridiculous?
Yes, it is all that much more ridiculous. Big Bang has actual scientific evidence behind it, for example. God has none. Being an atheist doesn't mean you have to believe anything in particular, you just don't believe that a god exists until shown some kind of evidence. Abstract concepts != fairy tales.

And Penitent should read this: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pascal's_wager
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Penitent on December 27, 2013, 06:26:52 pm
I'm well aware of paschals wager, and I know it's a common formula offered in such discussions like I mentioned.  It's not the only reason, and it's not the best reason, but it can be a good starting point for giving someone a reason to begin thinking about otherworldly things.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Xant on December 27, 2013, 06:28:21 pm
No, it's a horrible starting point. It literally makes no sense. There are so many problems with it it isn't even funny.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Penitent on December 27, 2013, 06:34:14 pm
No, it's a horrible starting point. It literally makes no sense. There are so many problems with it it isn't even funny.

There's a couple "criticisms" listed in the article you linked -- nothing detrimental to the argument that we should be thinking about our mortality and the possible consequences of it.  Unless you think I'm trying to make a point that I am not trying to make of course.  I think the article listed 2 problems with it, both minor for my purposes.  It makes perfect sense. :)

You may be referring to the "assumptions" listed on that page.  Many of those are misunderstanding what faith is, but I didn't read them all.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Xant on December 27, 2013, 06:36:31 pm
So why is Pascal's Wager a good starting point, then..?
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Rumblood on December 27, 2013, 06:37:31 pm
You can add Philomath or FreeThinker. The original Greek definition of Gnostic is also close, but has come to imply more than simply a seeker of knowledge or the truth and so may be misinterpreted.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Penitent on December 27, 2013, 06:44:24 pm
So why is Pascal's Wager a good starting point, then..?

It's a good starting point because many people just say "I don't see proof for God, so no point believing" and they just stop there.  That makes the least sense of all.  They aren't thinking beyond what is right in front of their face (almost literally), let alone what has happened in the past, or what may happen in the future, or what may happen after they die.  What are the possibilities after death?  Do we have a finite percentage of probabilities?  What are those based on?  Does that affect how I live my life now?  Should it?  What makes the most sense?

That's just one way.  That are so so so many ways to approach this, but I present that wager in this case to get someone to think about things they can't see right now and perhaps things they haven't even thought about right now -- to expand horizons so to speak.  The train of thought they take after that, if they take any, is up to them.  Since I don't have the ability to walk through a drawn out thought process here on this forum, and don't know much about the attitude and disposition of the original poster, I figured it's a good place to start the train  -- even if its not the best. :)
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Radament on December 27, 2013, 07:27:39 pm
seriously !? no buddhists? that's a pity !

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/qanda02.htm (http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/qanda02.htm)
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Xant on December 27, 2013, 07:40:02 pm
It's a good starting point because many people just say "I don't see proof for God, so no point believing" and they just stop there.  That makes the least sense of all.  They aren't thinking beyond what is right in front of their face (almost literally), let alone what has happened in the past, or what may happen in the future, or what may happen after they die.  What are the possibilities after death?  Do we have a finite percentage of probabilities?  What are those based on?  Does that affect how I live my life now?  Should it?  What makes the most sense?

That's just one way.  That are so so so many ways to approach this, but I present that wager in this case to get someone to think about things they can't see right now and perhaps things they haven't even thought about right now -- to expand horizons so to speak.  The train of thought they take after that, if they take any, is up to them.  Since I don't have the ability to walk through a drawn out thought process here on this forum, and don't know much about the attitude and disposition of the original poster, I figured it's a good place to start the train  -- even if its not the best. :)
If somebody's already an atheist, there's no reason to make them think those thoughts. They've already made the right decision. If you know your destination, you are already there.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Tydeus on December 27, 2013, 07:50:10 pm
That's why I have respect for agnostics but little patience for true atheists
It's really the same exact thing. The only difference between the two is that anyone calling themselves agnostic, is either doing so because they're hipsters and they think it makes themselves look sophisticated, or they've failed to acknowledge the evidence against the claim and the lack of such to support the claim.

They're both dumb labels that shouldn't even exist to begin with. Nowhere do we choose to label people not making scientific claims, except for when religion is involved.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Xant on December 27, 2013, 07:56:29 pm
It's really the same exact thing. The only difference between the two is that anyone calling themselves agnostic, is either doing so because they're hipsters and they think it makes themselves look sophisticated, or they've failed to acknowledge the evidence against the claim and the lack of such to support the claim.

They're both dumb labels that shouldn't even exist to begin with. Nowhere do we choose to label people not making scientific claims, except for when religion is involved.
Precisely. Some people love making a big deal over that; "I'm agnostic, atheists are soooo dumb!"

Atheism is best described as a lack of any belief that God does exist.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Penitent on December 27, 2013, 07:58:08 pm
It's really the same exact thing. The only difference between the two is that anyone calling themselves agnostic, is either doing so because they're hipsters and they think it makes themselves look sophisticated, or they've failed to acknowledge the evidence against the claim and the lack of such to support the claim.

They're both dumb labels that shouldn't even exist to begin with. Nowhere do we choose to label people not making scientific claims, except for when religion is involved.

I think they are quit different, but maybe it's just semantics. 

We do use negative labels for things other than religion all the time though!  Even science!  Like global warming deniers, or holocaust deniers.  Atheist is just a fancy word for faith denier.  Agnostic is fancy word for "admits not knowing."
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Penitent on December 27, 2013, 07:59:04 pm
If somebody's already an atheist, there's no reason to make them think those thoughts. They've already made the right decision. If you know your destination, you are already there.

There is no reason to make them think those thoughts unless they asked for a reason, like OP did. :)
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Xant on December 27, 2013, 07:59:59 pm
I think they are quit different, but maybe it's just semantics. 

We do use negative labels for things other than religion all the time though!  Even science!  Like global warming deniers, or holocaust deniers.  Atheist is just a fancy word for faith denier.  Agnostic is fancy word for "admits not knowing."
Agnostic is a fancy word for "tries to show off how hippy and humble he is."
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Penitent on December 27, 2013, 08:01:41 pm
Agnostic is a fancy word for "tries to show off how hippy and humble he is."

That's absurd.  Gnostic means "knowledge" in greek.  The root of the word is "no knowledge."  You claim you know, it's the "right choice" you say.  That's another way of saying "ignorance."  :)
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Xant on December 27, 2013, 08:07:52 pm
That's absurd.  Gnostic means "knowledge" in greek.  The root of the word is "no knowledge."  You claim you know, it's the "right choice" you say.  That's another way of saying "ignorance."  :)
How is it relevant in any way what gnostic means in Greek? And no, you saying you're a believer is another way of saying "delusional."
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on December 27, 2013, 08:16:24 pm
If I was a god I would rather sentence someone to eternal hellfire for believing in me for possible personal gain than someone who wasn't scared into believing I existed, choosing to be a good Christian because of possible reward in the afterlife is fucking pathetic, it also misses the point that there are a shitload of religions that promise you reward in heaven if you follow them, and punishment if you don't, spreading it out even thinner, in the end it's just pathetic.
Quote
It's a good starting point because many people just say "I don't see proof for God, so no point believing" and they just stop there.  That makes the least sense of all.  They aren't thinking beyond what is right in front of their face (almost literally), let alone what has happened in the past, or what may happen in the future, or what may happen after they die.  What are the possibilities after death?  Do we have a finite percentage of probabilities?  What are those based on?  Does that affect how I live my life now?  Should it?  What makes the most sense?
This entire post makes you sound like someone any selfrespecting deity would punish, religion/lack thereof should be a search for truth, not a search for reward. Abrahamic religions, specifically the Christianities, are fucking pathetic, they aren't based on trying to find truth, they aren't based on trying to do what you think is right, they're all about not searching for knowledge (hell the Adam and Eve story is basically "God wants you to be stupid"), not searching for truth, and doing what some book some shitheads wrote over a millennium ago tells them to? And why? Because it's right? Nope, because they might be rewarded. You disgust me. I would rather burn in eternal hellfire than worship something I didn't really believe in because it MIGHT be possible, and thus I MIGHT be rewarded.

BUT ANYHOW

Mork the goat god wants your money to strengthen his church, give me all your looms and gold and you'll gain eternal life in the afterlife, or whatever.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Xant on December 27, 2013, 08:18:28 pm
Mork the goat god wants your money to strengthen his church, give me all your looms and gold and you'll gain eternal life in the afterlife, or whatever.
It's funny because this is comedy to us nowadays, yet Christianity was really doing this. "Pay us and your lot will be better in the afterlife! Pay us and your sins will be gone!"
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on December 27, 2013, 08:20:27 pm
It's funny because this is comedy to us nowadays, yet Christianity was really doing this. "Pay us and your lot will be better in the afterlife! Pay us and your sins will be gone!"
So pay me, those looms and that gold is only a few hundred hours of grind, potentially you could get eternal happiness for this. If you consider Pascal's wager anything but bullshit buy this: http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=marketplacetrade&id=549817

Regardless of the loss:reward ratio, if the probability of reward is too low, betting makes no sense.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Penitent on December 27, 2013, 08:29:21 pm
If I was a god I would rather sentence someone to eternal hellfire for believing in me for possible personal gain than someone who wasn't scared into believing I existed, choosing to be a good Christian because of possible reward in the afterlife is fucking pathetic, it also misses the point that there are a shitload of religions that promise you reward in heaven if you follow them, and punishment if you don't, spreading it out even thinner, in the end it's just pathetic. This entire post makes you sound like someone any selfrespecting deity would punish, religion/lack thereof should be a search for truth, not a search for reward. Abrahamic religions, specifically the Christianities, are fucking pathetic, they aren't based on trying to find truth, they aren't based on trying to do what you think is right, they're all about not searching for knowledge (hell the Adam and Eve story is basically "God wants you to be stupid"), not searching for truth, and doing what some book some shitheads wrote over a millennium ago tells them to? And why? Because it's right? Nope, because they might be rewarded. You disgust me. I would rather burn in eternal hellfire than worship something I didn't really believe in because it MIGHT be possible, and thus I MIGHT be rewarded.

BUT ANYHOW

Mork the goat god wants your money to strengthen his church, give me all your looms and gold and you'll gain eternal life in the afterlife, or whatever.

Your post is full of misconceptions.  You are misunderstanding my post, my motivations, and the nature of faith and religion -- completely.  It's so full of misconception I don't even know where to begin.  You confound me, man!  :(  It's also pretty disrespectful on a personal level.

That's why discussion like this are so hard on the internet.  Most people arguing against religion are arguing against their own construction of something that doesn't even really exist.  Many people defending it don't understand their own faith.  Then it often eventually devolves into personal attacks on the part of the non-believers.

Oh well, have fun kiddies. :)
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Xant on December 27, 2013, 08:32:52 pm
We certainly will, what with having no invisible grandfather-dude to answer to in the sky.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on December 27, 2013, 08:33:34 pm
Your post is full of misconceptions.  You are misunderstanding my post, my motivations, and the nature of faith and religion -- completely.  It's so full of misconception I don't even know where to begin.  You confound me, man!  :(  It's also pretty disrespectful on a personal level.

That's why discussion like this are so hard on the internet.  Most people arguing against religion are arguing against their own construction of something that doesn't even really exist.  Many people defending it don't understand their own faith. 

Oh well, have fun kiddies. :)
My own construction? If you wrote it isn't it your construction?
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Herkkutatti666 on December 27, 2013, 08:35:01 pm
what!?!? am i really the only jewish here :O
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Umbra on December 27, 2013, 08:36:54 pm
(click to show/hide)

We are a very arogant species if we think that the creator of the entire fucking universe created us on his image and sent his son to die for our sins.

Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Penitent on December 27, 2013, 08:37:18 pm
My own construction? If you wrote it isn't it your construction?

You took my post and turned it into something else.  I don't know how you got the conclusions you did...but you sure took those conclusions and ran down the field with them, scored a touchdown, and spiked the ball in a victory dance -- in the wrong goal! :)  I'd ask how you did that, but since you devolved into personal attacks I'm just going to go ahead and bow out.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on December 27, 2013, 08:41:06 pm
You took my post and turned it into something else.  I don't know how you got the conclusions you did...but you sure took those conclusions and ran down the field with them, scored a touchdown, and spiked the ball in a victory dance -- in the wrong goal! :)  I'd ask how you did that, but since you devolved into personal attacks I'm just going to go ahead and bow out.
Look at your fucking questions there buddy: "oooh does whether I believe in god affect my afterlife? Should I be the Churchs bitch just in case?" The very fact that you'd even bring up Pascal's wager as a valid reason to worship something alone proves my point.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Penitent on December 27, 2013, 08:44:43 pm
Look at your fucking questions there buddy: "oooh does whether I believe in god affect my afterlife? Should I be the Churchs bitch just in case?" The very fact that you'd even bring up Pascal's wager as a valid reason to worship something alone proves my point.

I didn't say any of those things.  Keep going though, you're looking quite bright.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Tovi on December 27, 2013, 08:47:08 pm
I'm Pantheist.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on December 27, 2013, 08:50:09 pm
I didn't say any of those things.  Keep going though, you're looking quite bright.
Quote
It's [Pascal's wager] a good starting point because many people just say "I don't see proof for God, so no point believing" and they just stop there.  That makes the least sense of all.  They aren't thinking beyond what is right in front of their face (almost literally), let alone what has happened in the past, or what may happen in the future, or what may happen after they die.  What are the possibilities after death?  Do we have a finite percentage of probabilities?  What are those based on?  Does that affect how I live my life now?  Should it?  What makes the most sense?
Now go give me 1mil cRPG gold because Mork the goat god might reward you.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Maksimus on December 27, 2013, 08:50:59 pm
Some experience from my life:
1) When my mother was ill, she had 39-40 degree C and couldn't move her neck and hand, I prayed for her and she got healed instantly, her temperature dropped to 36,6 after 5 min.
2) I prayed for one girl and she got healed from cancer
3) I told a prophecy to my freind, I said that he will pass exam, but God will surprise him, and he will get the highest mark not deservedly. He answered 1 of 5 questions and thought that will have 2 - the lowest mark but got 5 - the highest
4) When I was on exam, I asked God what question will teacher ask me and answer, and when I told the teacher what is giss thoughts, he afraid a little, Thanks to God I have graduated from university with all highest marks
5) I know people who healed from AIDS
And so on
I was seeking the God Half of my life and I still don't know him as I want to know. I learned to hear Him. Do you? Stop, please discuss about things that you don't know. And don't think that heaven is after dying. It starts when you fall in love with God.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on December 27, 2013, 08:59:07 pm
Some experience from my life:
1) When my mother was ill, she had 39-40 degree C and couldn't move her neck and hand, I prayed for her and she got healed instantly, her temperature dropped to 36,6 after 5 min.
2) I prayed for one girl and she got healed from cancer
3) I told a prophecy to my freind, I said that he will pass exam, but God will surprise him, and he will get the highest mark not deservedly. He answered 1 of 5 questions and thought that will have 2 - the lowest mark but got 5 - the highest
4) When I was on exam, I asked God what question will teacher ask me and answer, and when I told the teacher what is giss thoughts, he afraid a little, Thanks to God I have graduated from university with all highest marks
5) I know people who healed from AIDS
And so on
I was seeking the God Half of my life and I still don't know him as I want to know. I learned to hear Him. Do you? Stop, please discuss about things that you don't know. And don't think that heaven is after dying. It starts when you fall in love with God.
Great great god helps people cheat in exams so they can graduate and get jobs they're not suited for, be incompetent, and thus screw over people in the end, Anecdotal evidence of prayer being answered best evidence either. Prove someone had aids, then stopped having aids, through the magics of GOD, I dare you.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: pepejul on December 27, 2013, 08:59:24 pm
O M G !!!

God exists and apparently he's very preoccupated by your case.... Can you tell him to have same attention for some other problems on earth ?

Another idea : if your wills are so OP..please pray for some BIG DEALS not for selfish personnal situations (I m happy you healed all your familiy but you arenot the entire human race....

some other pple really need help too !

GO PRAY NOW FOR THEM ALL AND CURE AIDS AND MALARIA you will be rich and famous)

Yesterday my son had headake... I prayed the golden sausage and 5 min later he was fine... That is not a reason to believe in golden sausage powaaaa !
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Maksimus on December 27, 2013, 09:07:05 pm
Great great god helps people cheat in exams so they can graduate and get jobs they're not suited for, be incompetent, and thus screw over people in the end, Anecdotal evidence of prayer being answered best evidence either. Prove someone had aids, then stopped having aids, through the magics of GOD, I dare you.
If I will prove it, what will you do?

Another idea : if your wills are so OP..please pray for some BIG DEALS not for selfish personnal situations (I m happy you healed all your familiy but you arenot the entire human race....
I pray for it every day. Less sarcasm please) Really you don't understand what you are talking about
John 12:40 "He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them."
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Penitent on December 27, 2013, 09:11:11 pm
Now go give me 1mil cRPG gold because Mork the goat god might reward you.

Cool.  Thanks for the quote.  Now I know exactly the part you are misunderstanding.  I'll by happy to explain myself since you asked so nicely to clarify instead of assuming what I meant and insulting me based on those assumptions.  This is how mature discussion is held and I am glad to partake. :)

Nowhere in that quote did I imply that Pascals Wager determins we should go to church or worship.  In fact, I did not use the words "church" or "worship" anywhere in any of my posts here.  What I DID do was clarify exactly why I brought up Pascals Wager -- that is the post you are quoting.  I gave a string of questions that I hoped OP might think about based on Pascal's Wager.  Please note, these are questions -- no where did I put the answers to those questions.  Nowhere did I imply what those answers might be.  I simply said, here is one train of thought that a person might go through when they seriously think about dying and possible after-effects.

OP assumed the same thing you did though, probably based on stuff he's read online about what Pascals Wager doesn't work for.  Nowhere did I say fear or selfishness is the reason to believe.  Nowhere did I say that self-interest was the best or only reason to think about these things.  At the same time, to claim that no one has ever had self-interest or made a decision based on self interest -- or that self-interest is somehow bad or of no importance in making decisions whatsoever -- is either crazy, a liar, or some kind of holy saint already.  It is merely a starting point to begin thinking about these things.  Why start here though?  Well if someone doesn't believe in God, you can't well say "believe in God because of God."  That won't work.  However everyone has an interest in their own well being -- so this is a common ground from which to start a discussion.  Why should you eat well?  Because it's good for you!  Why should you believe?  Well that may be good for you.  That's all I'm saying here, and that's what Pascals' Wager is good for.

Am I some kind of egotistical selfish lunatic because eating well may be good for me and I want you to think about that possibility?  Is all diet advice some kind of selfish pursuit that disgusts you so much because it is anti-truth and terrible?  Get real man!  You are taking my modest conclusion and humble reason for thinking about believing waaaay too far.  (before you say science says diet is good, so it's not purely self-interest, there is also science saying faith is good for you).

That reminds me of a story that happened to me the other day, actually.  I was working on a small building project in my garage.  I read the instructions just the day before and it said that screwdrivers were terrible tools for hammering in nails.  Sure you could use the handle of the screwdriver to drive a nail, but it sucks.  Well anyways, I was working away so proud of this knowledge when I see something crazy.  My cousin, who was helping me, was reaching for a screwdriver.  He was holding it in his hands!  "OMG" I said to him, "That's so fucked up, that's totally the wrong tool!  You can't use a screwdriver on a nail it's so wrong and it doesn't work!  You disgust me!"  Then he looked at me.  He was hurt.  He was wearing a cross on his necklace too, to make my allegory more complete.  He said, "I know that, I knew that without having to read the instructions.  But it's works pretty well for prying open this can of paint."  Then I was sad and went away.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Radament on December 27, 2013, 09:19:07 pm
Yesterday my son had headake... I prayed the golden sausage and 5 min later he was fine... That is not a reason to believe in golden sausage powaaaa !

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on December 27, 2013, 09:30:34 pm
If I will prove it, what will you do?
Inspect the proof, then reevaluate my beliefs based on that proof. Also Penitent, I'll tell you why you're wrong later, I don't really feel like writing something lengthy right now.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Kirbyy on December 27, 2013, 09:37:10 pm
No, this guy is not very smart.  He's a comedian but misunderstands much about what religion is really about.

Anyways, move to spam.

Actually I've read George Carlin's book, he's an extremely intellectual man that has managed to separate himself from other humans in this world.  His humor consists of dark, cynical, and satire jokes.  He's got EVERY idea of what he's talking about.
Satire - sat·ire
ˈsaˌtīr/Submit
noun
1.
the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Penitent on December 27, 2013, 09:39:33 pm
Inspect the proof, then reevaluate my beliefs based on that proof. Also Penitent, I'll tell you why you're wrong later, I don't really feel like writing something lengthy right now.

That's ok, as long as you only think I'm wrong by taking the position "There's a possibility that there is an after life and it's worth considering."  That's the only position I'm taking, and the only thing Pascal's Wager is good for, and the only position I'm willing to defend right now. :)

Also, I should have said the guy in OP's vid was not smart.  He's probably smarter than me.  He does have some misunderstandings though.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Kirbyy on December 27, 2013, 09:45:08 pm
I'd like to talk about this actually without starting some fisty cuffs, but I feel as if you'll just get teamed up on.  So I'll wait my turn.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Rumblood on December 27, 2013, 09:49:21 pm
I'd like to talk about this actually without starting some fisty cuffs, but I feel as if you'll just get teamed up on.  So I'll wait my turn.

You'll just get teamed anyhow with that ass and fear of fisticuffs.  :twisted:
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: SixThumbs on December 27, 2013, 10:10:03 pm
How dare some people in this thread take George Carlin's name in vain.

Also, that video is blocked in my country which is a sleight against my freedom from religious prosecution.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Tydeus on December 27, 2013, 10:12:24 pm
That reminds me of a story that happened to me the other day, actually.  I was working on a small building project in my garage.  I read the instructions just the day before and it said that screwdrivers were terrible tools for hammering in nails.  Sure you could use the handle of the screwdriver to drive a nail, but it sucks.  Well anyways, I was working away so proud of this knowledge when I see something crazy.  My cousin, who was helping me, was reaching for a screwdriver.  He was holding it in his hands!  "OMG" I said to him, "That's so fucked up, that's totally the wrong tool!  You can't use a screwdriver on a nail it's so wrong and it doesn't work!  You disgust me!"  Then he looked at me.  He was hurt.  He was wearing a cross on his necklace too, to make my allegory more complete.  He said, "I know that, I knew that without having to read the instructions.  But it's works pretty well for prying open this can of paint."  Then I was sad and went away.
No, this guy is not very smart.  He's a comedian but misunderstands much about what religion is really about.

Anyways, move to spam.
Your post is full of misconceptions.  You are misunderstanding my post, my motivations, and the nature of faith and religion -- completely.  It's so full of misconception I don't even know where to begin.  You confound me, man!  :(  It's also pretty disrespectful on a personal level.

That's why discussion like this are so hard on the internet.  Most people arguing against religion are arguing against their own construction of something that doesn't even really exist.  Many people defending it don't understand their own faith.  Then it often eventually devolves into personal attacks on the part of the non-believers.
I feel like you're assuming all religions and religious participants are exactly the same or more specifically, that literalism and fanaticism don't exist. You certainly make it seem like you're acting as an authority on what religion is and how it should be interpreted. Unfortunately, not even the Vatican can get their own religion right. How is it you can so easily act as an authority for all?
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Umbra on December 27, 2013, 10:18:35 pm
We like to think we are special as a species, we like to think that God, the supposed creator of the entire universe somehow gives a shit what we do in our short little lives.

Its a coping mechanism. The magnitude of the universe is frightening. The insignificance of our short lives is scary, we arent even a blink of an eye in the timeline of the cosmos.
We arent unique, in fact our bodies are mainly made out of oxyigen, carbon, hidrogen and nitrogen. Those are the most common elements in the universe.

If our "special" life is made out of the most mundane elements then the question: Are we alone in the universe becomes absurd.

The fact that we havent found evidence of life can simply be explained by the incredibly immense distances we are dealing with here. And the fact that we are limited by the speed of light. If we look at some planet milions of lightyears away, that means that light needs to travel milions of years to reach us. In other words, we are looking into that object with a incredibly large delay. Hundreds of thousands of civilizations could have risen and fallen on that planet in that time.

Even if we somehow manage to invent light speed travel, we will only be able to explore minescule portions of our galaxy. It will still be too slow.
I just cant seriously believe that some powerful almighty being would give a shit about this spec of dust called Earth.

However, even as small as we are, the fact that we are made up of the most common elements in the universe is beautiful. I heard a wonderful phrase a while ago: We are the universe experiencing itself. So dont worry too much about manmade fariytales and enjoy your experience
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: pepejul on December 27, 2013, 10:26:47 pm
..true. And of course YOUR (I talk to believers)  god is the only one to be true.... other believers are wrong....

I m too humble to believe in God... Don't fear to be nothing... a dust on earth... take a breath of fresh air and just live..... when your life will end you will think :"oh shit... there is nothing after ? WTF ???? I was duuuuuumb !!!!"
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: BlueKnight on December 27, 2013, 10:38:00 pm
...hell the Adam and Eve story is basically "God wants you to be stupid", not searching for truth...

No, it's about obedience to the God and that people should obey what God says, else they are going to hurt themselves and each other, but you can read the Bible as YOU want and that's the reason you don't understand it.

By your clever findings in the Book that was written for the people with mentality of 2000 BC, you have just proven to everyone that God must not exist...

What are you going to come with next? The Cruel God killing poor everyone in a flood? What are you going to say? Is it the story about bloodthirsty God, or are you going to say that it's not true because it is impossible to rain for 40 days and nights straight? If you want to understand anything from the Bible you should take care of the New Testament first because it's easier and then proceed to the Old Testament.

I hate when somebody starts using Bible as a proof against God's existance.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Xant on December 27, 2013, 10:43:18 pm
Some experience from my life:
1) When my mother was ill, she had 39-40 degree C and couldn't move her neck and hand, I prayed for her and she got healed instantly, her temperature dropped to 36,6 after 5 min.
2) I prayed for one girl and she got healed from cancer
3) I told a prophecy to my freind, I said that he will pass exam, but God will surprise him, and he will get the highest mark not deservedly. He answered 1 of 5 questions and thought that will have 2 - the lowest mark but got 5 - the highest
4) When I was on exam, I asked God what question will teacher ask me and answer, and when I told the teacher what is giss thoughts, he afraid a little, Thanks to God I have graduated from university with all highest marks
5) I know people who healed from AIDS
And so on
I was seeking the God Half of my life and I still don't know him as I want to know. I learned to hear Him. Do you? Stop, please discuss about things that you don't know. And don't think that heaven is after dying. It starts when you fall in love with God.

Why the fuck would "God" help your friend pass an exam but not help the millions of people dying in horrible agony?
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: pepejul on December 27, 2013, 10:54:29 pm
because HE deserved it.... Poor pple who suffers DESERVED it too.... they are evil ! God Punished tem !  :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Panos_ on December 27, 2013, 11:02:08 pm
Some experience from my life:
1) When my mother was ill, she had 39-40 degree C and couldn't move her neck and hand, I prayed for her and she got healed instantly, her temperature dropped to 36,6 after 5 min.
2) I prayed for one girl and she got healed from cancer
3) I told a prophecy to my freind, I said that he will pass exam, but God will surprise him, and he will get the highest mark not deservedly. He answered 1 of 5 questions and thought that will have 2 - the lowest mark but got 5 - the highest
4) When I was on exam, I asked God what question will teacher ask me and answer, and when I told the teacher what is giss thoughts, he afraid a little, Thanks to God I have graduated from university with all highest marks
5) I know people who healed from AIDS
And so on
I was seeking the God Half of my life and I still don't know him as I want to know. I learned to hear Him. Do you? Stop, please discuss about things that you don't know. And don't think that heaven is after dying. It starts when you fall in love with God.


God is almighty indeed, he saved your mom, your friend, a girl who had cancer, and some people who had aids.

But I guess all the kids that die from famine, lack of water and diseases every fucking second, dont deserve the love of your God.

It`s your right to believe, and I don`t want to judge you for that, but coming here saying that your God is true because he saved a couple of people, while he let thousands die, makes you look like an idiot.


Also you are wrong, Atheism is the suspension of belief due to lack of evidence. For the most part, we don't say that there is no god. We simply say that since there is no proof, there is no reason to believe in him.


When people of a certain religion call others atheists, I just want to laugh, throught history men invented thousands of gods, so basically a christian is an atheist to a muslim, a muslim is an atheist to a paganist etc etc..

Your god is unproven as any other god out there, thats why atheists dont want to believe in him, because most people don`t like believing in a "lie".

Also the bible is based on Egyptian, Chinese and Greek myths, that were born thousands of years before christianity

Virgin birth, burial in a rock tomb, eating the body *bread* and drinking the blood *wine*, these three are a small example that christianity is a fraud, if you do a small research, you`ll see that all these are pagan rituals, but christianity came as a snowball and rolled over thousands of gods & rituals, and named it Christian rituals


TL:DR version, The signs you see are illusions you create, because you want to believe god is true.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Panos_ on December 27, 2013, 11:04:52 pm
Sorry for double posting, but it`s Dio

Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: pepejul on December 27, 2013, 11:13:48 pm
You speack the truth my greek friend.... but faith make pple blind.... that is why they don't want to see....  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Kuujis on December 28, 2013, 12:49:56 am
Not sure if relevant... but here it goes:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: FeddyCaeks on December 28, 2013, 01:06:40 am
Christian...but not a very good one. Not that I care what someone who's never read scripture thinks of me, but I'm mainly introverted with it. Used to be a mean, nasty athiest so I can't stand people like that, who treat people as if they're less intelligent than them simply because they believe in god. How ignorant can one be? I was like that was when I was 14. Older I get the wiser I get.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Osiris on December 28, 2013, 01:12:07 am
Christian...but not a very good one. Not that I care what someone who's never read scripture thinks of me, but I'm mainly introverted with it. Used to be a mean, nasty athiest so I can't stand people like that, who treat people as if they're less intelligent than them simply because they believe in god. How ignorant can one be? I was like that was when I was 14. Older I get the wiser I get.


you get people like that in all walks of life :P ive met Liberals/socialists who think they are superior and more intelligent to everyone else and even music fans who think the one they like is the best and everyone else who likes something else has a less valid opinion  :rolleyes: just don't engage with people like xant, Although claiming you have seen miracles and listing getting good exam results as a miracle from god does leave the guy wide open to ridicule  :lol:
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Panos_ on December 28, 2013, 01:33:21 am
Christian...but not a very good one. Not that I care what someone who's never read scripture thinks of me, but I'm mainly introverted with it. Used to be a mean, nasty athiest so I can't stand people like that, who treat people as if they're less intelligent than them simply because they believe in god. How ignorant can one be? I was like that was when I was 14. Older I get the wiser I get.


Atheists tend to call religious people stupid, because they think that religion=church, and as we all known church=corruption, it`s indeed the biggest mistake that atheists do when they speak about the subject, but on the other hand you can`t blame them, seeing "religious" people donating huge amounts of money to their local church just because they believe that this will make them better christians is a bit retarded. Yes, atheists are wrong calling religious people stupid, but on theother hand religious people dont do jack shit to prove atheists wrong, quite the opposite .
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Kafein on December 28, 2013, 03:20:39 am
Not sure if relevant... but here it goes:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


The argument that everything is the will of God is idiotic.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Leesin on December 28, 2013, 03:50:17 am
The argument that everything is the will of God is idiotic.

But god wills it
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Huscarlton_Banks on December 28, 2013, 04:26:31 am
The argument that everything is the will of God is idiotic.

If the "one mover" is omnipotent and omniscient as is usually claimed in mainstream sects of Abrahamic religions (Mostly Christians and Muslims, not Jews, at least in the US), then it's very hard to move away from everything being the will of God, since He both set everything in motion and knows everything about the future.

So there's always that.

Most of the anti-religious stuff on the internet stems from:

a) lel2edgy teens angry at parents (Though this seems to be dying as a trend with the "niceguy" atheist fedora meme because of people who don't know the difference between antitheist and atheist)
b) Attempts at inserting religious dogma into law
c) Pants on head views on science/history + forcing these views on children with punishments/threat of hell for questions

I don't see any reason to believe in any faith over another given the sheer number of religions that have spawned in history, the lack of empirical evidence, and bronze-age views on morality, but I don't bother anyone IRL over it.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Radament on December 28, 2013, 05:04:27 am
wise words (actually didn't read but anyway..)
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Xant on December 28, 2013, 09:54:39 am
Christian...but not a very good one. Not that I care what someone who's never read scripture thinks of me, but I'm mainly introverted with it. Used to be a mean, nasty athiest so I can't stand people like that, who treat people as if they're less intelligent than them simply because they believe in god. How ignorant can one be? I was like that was when I was 14. Older I get the wiser I get.
Well, it is a question of either intellectual capacity or intellectual honesty, so atheists who treat people like that aren't entirely wrong.

Of course, even most atheists will nod in agreement with you, "damn other atheists, let people have their faith, doesn't make anyone stupid!"

But fact remains, you're still falling for the world's oldest con, and at this point it's the world's most obvious one as well. If it didn't receive special treatment in people's minds, everyone would ridicule a believer. They certainly would ridicule someone believing in something half more plausible that was invented today.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Maksimus on December 28, 2013, 10:11:24 am
Why the fuck would "God" help your friend pass an exam but not help the millions of people dying in horrible agony?
It's nice to see that you care about millions of people, really do you? We have a mission in Thailand and some other asian countries. Do you know that some parents sell their children for about 100 dollars to sexual rapists. They rape them until they die. Our mission is to buy this little girls and boys. And now we have more then 1000 children in our shelter. Who rape this children? God or people?
I was in mission in Africa and I saw a lot of people dying because of people's selfishness, many of people blame the God for that. Well seems as you do. I saw many people has been saved from death by God, many people was healed, I saw people arised from the dead. I know pastor in Africa who was dead for three days, and then he became alive, and he is still living. Don't please joke about it, that he is zombie or walking dead. If you would be on his place you would never say this things. Me and my freiends feed the starving people. In my town some people dies from the cold. I took this people to my house wash them, some of them don't have fingers on the arms or legs. I try to find a job for them. But do you know what, this poor people prefer more to live on the streets, they don't want to live normally, they prefer to smoke and drink. And then the die. Who killed them God or themseves? In my practice only very little amount of people who really want to change their lifes. I was asked many times "And where is your God?" Really people it is easier to obey then do something. Yes there is some punishments from the God. But this punishments just to make you to face Him. A lot of evil is made by people.

It`s your right to believe, and I don`t want to judge you for that, but coming here saying that your God is true because he saved a couple of people, while he let thousands die, makes you look like an idiot.
TL:DR version, The signs you see are illusions you create, because you want to believe god is true.
Oh Panos really? Yes of course it easier to call me idiot or somthing else. I don't have a blind faith. Before to believe I searched a lot of religions for 5 years. I learned Koran, I had spiritual expirience in buddism, satanism and new age religions. The real power I saw is in satanism. I saw people levitate in the air, moving objects, seeing future and so on. But the real power of life I have discovered in Jesus Love.
Ok you can call me what ever you want. I just want to warn you, don't be selfish, search the truth, because if you will, you will find the answer. And at the end we will see who will live and who won't.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: pepejul on December 28, 2013, 10:27:37 am
I saw people levitate in the air, moving objects, seeing future and so on. But the real power of life I have discovered in Jesus Love.
Ok you can call me what ever you want. I just want to warn you, don't be selfish, search the truth, because if you will, you will find the answer. And at the end we will see who will live and who won't.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


MOUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...



Someone who believe in Levitation, telekinisis and divination can believe in God too...  Thanks for make me laugh in morning...

Levitation...

MOUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :::!!!!!
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Maksimus on December 28, 2013, 10:39:41 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Someone who believe in Levitation, telekinisis and divination can believe in God too...  Thanks for make me laugh in morning...

Levitation...

You are laughing about you don't know, Pepe. Keep laughing. I just said what power satanists have, but they are on the other side. Just seems you never faced the things I wrote. You cant make me unbeliever so. It's like to say to Mother Teresa "your God doesn't exist" It wil make her just laugh, and she would never finish her work for the God. I thought that you wanted to know something more, but you made this thread just for troll, then OK, sorry.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Xant on December 28, 2013, 10:43:56 am
It's nice to see that you care about millions of people, really do you? We have a mission in Thailand and some other asian countries. Do you know that some parents sell their children for about 100 dollars to sexual rapists. They rape them until they die. Our mission is to buy this little girls and boys. And now we have more then 1000 children in our shelter. Who rape this children? God or people?
God, since it's him who made human beings and it's him who has the power to stop it, according to you. If I script a program, I'm not going to blame the program for doing what I scripted it to do; and indeed, I'm responsible for what the program does.





Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Maksimus on December 28, 2013, 10:48:46 am
God, since it's him who made human beings and it's him who has the power to stop it, according to you. If I script a program, I'm not going to blame the program for doing what I scripted it to do; and indeed, I'm responsible for what the program does.
God gave people free will, He doesnt need robots
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Xant on December 28, 2013, 10:50:23 am
God gave people free will, He doesnt need robots
So what if he gave free will? If he made human beings, he gave us the capacity for evil, and the desire to do evil. He could've given us free will and made us peaceful, loving creatures.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Gnjus on December 28, 2013, 10:52:33 am
omnipotent and omniscient

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Maksimus on December 28, 2013, 10:54:01 am
So what if he gave free will? If he made human beings, he gave us the capacity for evil, and the desire to do evil. He could've given us free will and made us peaceful, loving creatures.
Well now you started to think logically, that's why he sent His son to the earth. I cant love all people, but in Jesus I can. I would never help people in Africa and Asia and in mu country, but in Jesus I do. He made me a new creature.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Xant on December 28, 2013, 10:55:40 am
Wait, what? How does that make sense, logically? How does him sending his son here have anything to do with what I just said? How does it help?
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Moncho on December 28, 2013, 10:56:27 am
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: pepejul on December 28, 2013, 11:07:27 am
you believe in magic, in telepathic, in telekinesis, in god, in divination... why not homeopathy and aliens too ?

Poor credulous... you are ready to believe all shit you see or all shit you hear ?

"believe is intellectually easier than explain and understand"

"someone who makes you believe in incredible things can make you do horrible things"

Just think about it...
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Maksimus on December 28, 2013, 11:29:16 am
you believe in magic, in telepathic, in telekinesis, in god, in divination... why not homeopathy and aliens too ?

Poor credulous... you are ready to believe all shit you see or all shit you hear ?

"believe is intellectually easier than explain and understand"

"someone who makes you believe in incredible things can make you do horrible things"

Just think about it...
Lol Pepe, you don't know anything about my life and me. I understand what I write, seems you dont. I cant explain it to you because it always makes you laugh. And yes someone who made me believe in God made me do horrible things as I have written before
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Osiris on December 28, 2013, 11:36:01 am
you lost me at the part where you have seen people dead for three days suddenly come back to life :P

I see thunder and lightning quite often so it must be Thunor the Anglo-Saxon god of thunder, i see his actions far more than a christian gods.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Gurnisson on December 28, 2013, 11:38:11 am
Considering all the bad things you've seen in life, how can you waste your prayers on univeristy grades for you and your friends? :P
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: darmaster on December 28, 2013, 12:01:56 pm
agnostic

It's really the same exact thing. The only difference between the two is that anyone calling themselves agnostic, is either doing so because they're hipsters and they think it makes themselves look sophisticated, or they've failed to acknowledge the evidence against the claim and the lack of such to support the claim.

They're both dumb labels that shouldn't even exist to begin with. Nowhere do we choose to label people not making scientific claims, except for when religion is involved.


sorry but the fact is i've never made any sort of claim of anyhting; the only evidences i have say i can't know what the truth is; there could be a god, there could be not, i can't and i will never know what the truth is.

i really hope people don't say they have proofs a god doesn't exist, cause those who claimed to have proofs that it does, already shown how retarded and hypocrite they were

also i find more hi(p)sterical saying agnostic and atheist are the same thing despite the fact they're clearly not.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: pepejul on December 28, 2013, 12:06:29 pm
Lol Pepe, you don't know anything about my life and me. I understand what I write, seems you dont. I cant explain it to you because it always makes you laugh. And yes someone who made me believe in God made me do horrible things as I have written before

the only answer :

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


You are scary....
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on December 28, 2013, 12:12:14 pm
Lol Pepe, you don't know anything about my life and me. I understand what I write, seems you dont. I cant explain it to you because it always makes you laugh. And yes someone who made me believe in God made me do horrible things as I have written before
Guys I won the lottery two hundred times in a row and am a billionaire! You don't believe me and think I should either prove it or shut up? Well eh, guys I won the lottery two hundred times in a row and am a billionaire! Me winning the lottery two hundred times in a row is even far likelier than your bro god magically curing people of aids and some such claims without anyone besides you noticing.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Xant on December 28, 2013, 12:14:52 pm
Well, I think y'all being a bit harsh on the guy. If what he says is true, that he helps starving people and people in need, doesn't really matter why he does it. Perhaps it'd be a more moral act from him to help people if he didn't people in god, but he's still helping people.

sorry but the fact is i've never made any sort of claim of anyhting; the only evidences i have say i can't know what the truth is; there could be a god, there could be not, i can't and i will never know what the truth is.

i really hope people don't say they have proofs a god doesn't exist, cause those who claimed to have proofs that it does, already shown how retarded and hypocrite they were

also i find more hi(p)sterical saying agnostic and atheist are the same thing despite the fact they're clearly not.
Absence of evidence is evidence of absence.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Maksimus on December 28, 2013, 12:17:09 pm
Considering all the bad things you've seen in life, how can you waste your prayers on univeristy grades for you and your friends? :P
I graduated from university 15 years ago
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Umbra on December 28, 2013, 12:28:28 pm
Do i need to quote the post where you said god helped you with your university or will you answer the actual question on your own?
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: darmaster on December 28, 2013, 12:33:24 pm
Absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

of brains for some, yes
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Xant on December 28, 2013, 12:34:16 pm
of brains for some, yes
Sadly, I'm inclined to agree.
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: pepejul on December 28, 2013, 12:43:33 pm
I think I will close this topic before we insult or talk about Einstein and chocolate chips cookies....  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: darmaster on December 28, 2013, 12:55:12 pm
we're lucky those didn't show up yet, considering the thread's argument; don't worry pepe, arguing isn't a bad thing at all, it just helps when done in a constructive way.


xant you're a cunt
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: Xant on December 28, 2013, 12:57:23 pm
Lucky why? This is one of the topics where it's warranted to bring up Hitler and the Nazis. Why would god let that happen? "Free will"? What about the free will of the eleven million people Hitler killed (not counting soldiers) who had no say in their fate?
Title: Re: Believe in God...
Post by: pepejul on December 28, 2013, 12:58:36 pm
OK..lock the GODWIN point abooze topic..thank you all...

My Penis bless you