cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Prpavi on November 27, 2013, 02:27:36 pm

Title: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Prpavi on November 27, 2013, 02:27:36 pm
Simple question, which do you prefer and why, would you miss any mode, what would you vote removed if the time came.

I'm a Battle nerd, almost never play Siege, the mod simply doesn't appel to me, always liked non respawn type mode is any game so it continued here too, makes me bit less wreckless and despite Siege having an objective respwaning makes forna difficult pub organisation, not so bad if you have HRE or Greys rolling in one team tho.

You opinion?
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Fartface on November 27, 2013, 02:31:28 pm
No fun in owning evrything at siege since they will respawn and aren´t forced to watch you teabagg em.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Varadin on November 27, 2013, 02:31:48 pm
I prefer Siege and Strategus battle/siege since its basically teamdeath match, I dont know why i always liked siege , maybe cuse of high number of ppl playing there and cuse of respawn time, i personally dont like when i die and have to wait whole round to end to spawn again i find that as time wasting.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Miwiw on November 27, 2013, 02:31:54 pm
I'm with battle, I don't play anything else actually and spent about 90% of my time on battle servers in both native and crpg (same for other mods though most other mods are usually having battle servers only).
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Moncho on November 27, 2013, 02:41:42 pm
Siege, because there is no cav in it, get to play more, there is an objective (even if the teams are almost always full of people who ignore it), and a few more reasons.
Yet again, I like to sometimes hop on a battle server and play a few rounds, having to wait is alright a few times, but after a while it gets annoying.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Teeth on November 27, 2013, 02:48:46 pm
Well, I am fairly sure that if the game could only support one server, the devs would go for battle. Simply because battle actually allows some degree of effectivity for any class whereas siege would shit in the face of a huge part of the playerbase.

I prefer battle because it is much more intense. No respawns makes that any action you do matters for your team's chances at victory. I like that you can completely turn the tide of your team by kicking ass for a short while. In siege I feel like I have much less of an influence on my teams winning chances, also valour system is really crappy for siege, because laddercamping defenders usually prevent attackers from getting it.

I for one think I have to wait less in battle than in Siege, if you consider the running time to the fight as attacker waiting. Battle rounds usually only take 3-4 minutes and I rarely die within the first two. As defender on siege 30 seconds for each death usually amounts to like 1.5-2 minutes of waiting in a 6 minute round. As an attacker it is much worse, with running into certain death scenarios all the time and having to run again. I can stand siege only for short periods, if I could only be a defender it would be much more fun, I fucking hate attacking.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Tibe on November 27, 2013, 02:53:46 pm
Meh, its more about builds for me. Battle if im using serius balanced builds. And siege if im using trollbuilds or fullagi/fullstr builds. Generally whenever I use nonbalanced builds I seem to die a lot more and staying in spectate for a long time is just not enjoyable.

However, I consider battle to be the real only test of skills in this whole game. Cause you acctually want to stay alive and kill someone too, cause 1 death means getting kicked into spectate. Plus all classes can generally pitch into the fight and counter eachother. In siege some classes turn ineffective and there is a lot less tactics involved. I once briefly played Crpg while my friend was looking at the monitor. I started with Siege and later played Battle. And he was like: "wow, whats this now?" I said its a different gamemode, from what I gathered he seemed lot more fond of that. Cause people acctually gave 2 shits about dying and werent storming random.

Despite my love for battle, I dont think I could live without siege either.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Gnjus on November 27, 2013, 02:54:45 pm
i personally dont like when i die and have to wait whole round to end to spawn again i find that as time wasting.


having to wait is alright a few times, but after a while it gets annoying.



Then don't die early, useless swabs. Be aware, don't play the game if you don't feel like it, be useful for your team, don't just spawn-run straightforward & die. Siege (in its currents state) is for useless brainfarts who like it easy mode: pop in, spam your mouse and if you die you can just go on within a few seconds. How great & awesome.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: bavvoz on November 27, 2013, 02:58:11 pm
1. battle
2. duel
3. dtv
4. siege
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: musketer on November 27, 2013, 02:59:58 pm
It's not like just that...

I prefer siege if there are more than 20 players
I prefer battle if there are less than 20 players


The problem of battle is that there isn't any type of tactical implementation in it, everyone runs around like lost cows, and that isn't funny nor even realistic, what would be great is a more tactical battles, with formations and strategic maps, that would be really great.

Siege is good and funny but with less than 20 players it becomes boring.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: _GTX_ on November 27, 2013, 03:01:09 pm
Siege for me.

Getting shot to pieces or bumped endlessly or getting ganked is not really my kind of fun. People are scared, if they dont have their whole team with them, always run.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Osiris on November 27, 2013, 03:01:55 pm
I play battle most of the time but i find myself playing siege more often the last week just because the sheer amount of ranged and cav on eu1 sometimes just makes it too frustrating to play (getting to the point where i dont even bother to log into eu1 to check how much ranged and cav there is :/ )where as on siege i can chill out a bit more. I don't get rage when i get shot to death and i find quite often i get more melee action in siege :P
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Varadin on November 27, 2013, 03:06:30 pm



Then don't die early, useless swabs. Be aware, don't play the game if you don't feel like it, be useful for your team, don't just spawn-run straightforward & die. Siege (in its currents state) is for useless brainfarts who like it easy mode: pop in, spam your mouse and if you die you can just go on within a few seconds. How great & awesome.

Im not saying im dieing early, i dont like to wait till round ends.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Bittersteel on November 27, 2013, 03:11:13 pm
And you can just stand on the wall and bash down on people that comes up the ladder with your str build and great maul  :P
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: no_rules_just_play on November 27, 2013, 03:13:00 pm
Siege because I like the fact that not a single map is different and every map has a lot of different tactics that can be followed. There are also multiple different things you can decide to do to help your team.
Also, the siege tactics are much more fun than battle tactics for me personally.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: polkafranzi on November 27, 2013, 03:23:52 pm
rageball
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Zox_Fury on November 27, 2013, 03:25:57 pm
I play battle 2% of my Crpg time .

I'm definitely too bad to enjoy battle time extension of respawn. The siege is lot of fun and delirious actions sometimes.Strategus is really cool too whatever siege or battle especially with Hetman as chief
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on November 27, 2013, 03:26:15 pm
I prefer battle for many reasons, you typically are not limiting what classes and play styles are viable.  The main reason I prefer it, is that it's round based and you only have one life per round.  Everyone is on equal footing, and is just as important as the next guy.  You have one life to help your team the best you can. 
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: musketer on November 27, 2013, 03:29:34 pm
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Pinche on November 27, 2013, 03:31:43 pm
The battle maps are retarded.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Bulzur on November 27, 2013, 03:52:13 pm
I prefer battle.

It usually allows me to read in between rounds, may it be the chat, or online reading.
No time wasted even while dead.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Umbra on November 27, 2013, 04:00:52 pm
Umad waradin?

Ahahahah this guy actualy went to my post history and took the time to downvote all my posts after i downvoted him here.

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Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Molly on November 27, 2013, 04:05:55 pm
I play mostly battle cuz you got one life and treasure it more...

...except there are those HA assholes rolling the server - then I play siege  :twisted:
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on November 27, 2013, 04:11:21 pm
I prefer battle because the maps are better but Teeth is slowly killing the maps leading us to no longer being able to defend the stairs :(
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: korppis on November 27, 2013, 04:28:40 pm
I used to play only battle, back when there were ladders and less ranged. It was fun when you still could go flanking around and try different routes (or make them!).

Now there's so much ranged that the only option to stay alive is to stay in one group, run serpentine from start to end to avoid getting shot.. and flanking is impossible unless you have 10 ath and shield. Battle lost all the creative stuff it used to have and what made it fun... so my vote goes for siege which I've been playing last year now.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Penitent on November 27, 2013, 04:49:21 pm
I prefer siege by a landslide, for many reasons.

I don't get as much time to play as I would like -- so when it's game time, IT'S GAME TIME. 
No playing for 2 mins, dying, and waiting 4 more minutes to play.  Fuck that, I want to play murder death kill fight and bite fight and bite!

I dont' have time to browse the forums or dick around on the internet when it's time to kill.  I do enough of that shit at work.

Other than that, I really like having an objective to focus on.  It's forces the team to work together.  Rambo-hero-rangers need not apply.  Get to the flag, fools! 
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Daniisme on November 27, 2013, 04:52:12 pm
I preffered Battle sometime ago but EU4 got removed so I mainly play Siege.

The reason for that is simple, eu1 is not what it used to be, most of the rounds people runing around doing nothing till someone decides to start a fight/ getting shot/ slashed/stabbed by cav.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: karasu on November 27, 2013, 04:52:22 pm
Siege.

I actually like to play and have fun, not hiding in fear of dieing or having to wait several minutes to have a chance again. A game mode that promotes camping isn't that fun.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Oberyn on November 27, 2013, 04:55:23 pm
I used to play only battle, back when there were ladders and less ranged. It was fun when you still could go flanking around and try different routes (or make them!).

Now there's so much ranged that the only option to stay alive is to stay in one group, run serpentine from start to end to avoid getting shot.. and flanking is impossible unless you have 10 ath and shield. Battle lost all the creative stuff it used to have and what made it fun... so my vote goes for siege which I've been playing last year now.

Never happened. Ladders coincided with the largest amount of ranged ever present in the game. No melee wasted time carrying ladders in case some xbow or archer happened to be camping 3 mins into the round. The only people that got a use out of them were ranged, camping otherwise unreachable spots. Suggesting that they were some kind of tactical buff for melee vs ranged is nonsensical.

Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Varadin on November 27, 2013, 04:59:51 pm
Umad waradin?

Ahahahah this guy actualy went to my post history and took the time to downvote all my posts after i downvoted him here.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Hardly, I would surly not waste my time downvoting all your pots, it would take me days to do that.
You are just pathetic for posting this lie and downvoting my aka totally normal post just cuse you have some hate apon me.

Don't like me ? just pass by bro ..
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Elindor on November 27, 2013, 05:01:03 pm
I actually play a lot of both and like them both for different reasons.

Here's what I would say though if I had to pick one.


If there could be something that limits how long archers or HA/HX could just run around and hide and dick off after 90% of each team is dead and just spectating or watching midget porn...

...Then I might pick battle.  Otherwise, my pick would be siege.


I, like Penitent, work and have a lot of other things going on.  I don't get on to "oh when you die just dick off and browse the internet", I don't really have that kind of time luxury to waste and thats what it feels like - a waste.

While battle with one life can be intense, it can also be infuriating especially since most of the time one team is just getting curbstomped because of the balancer.  Believe it or not, I actually get into more good, 1v1(ish) duel type situations in siege.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Gravoth_iii on November 27, 2013, 05:02:55 pm
I prefer battle. When i go to siege expecting more action i actually dont notice that much of a difference, as attacker you have to constantly suicide push ladders, mindlessly attack gates or afk in siege towers for the first minutes or so. Then when you get in to the castle there are some fights finally but if you die you will have to run a long way to get there again. As defender you just sit in the castle for a long time waiting for people either to break the gate or if you get a good ladder position you can overhead spam some. You get some action, but boring shit.
While in battle sometimes i can die early and get a lengthy spawn, but then i can just tab down anyways. If i dont then there is action almost all the time and its on fair ground mostly. I die then i wait maybe 1 or 2 minutes, and then get right back in to the action.

tl;dr i feel the waiting times in battle are the same as in siege, but the action is more fun in battle.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Leshma on November 27, 2013, 05:04:10 pm
Siege. HRE/Grey rivalry is more interesting than Mercs/Byz clash.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: NuberT on November 27, 2013, 05:18:27 pm
Rage-quit factor on battle is too high for me, happens a lot that I rage-quit before I have spawned the first time, just watching that last HA or some other retardation :rolleyes:.

I also think my impact on winning or losing is a lot bigger in siege and I can actually make the difference there.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: bagge on November 27, 2013, 05:20:17 pm
Battle is the best. Why? Cause I've been stuck attacking castles/towns since Strat 2. :cry:
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: HUtH on November 27, 2013, 05:31:50 pm
I like battle much more, no respawn makes it just better, also there are more classes to fight with, which is also better.
But I play siege too, few minutes before going to battle, because it's just pure mayhem, good for 'warm-up' or some half hour mindless fun, but longer play makes me tired.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Umbra on November 27, 2013, 05:39:59 pm
Hardly, I would surly not waste my time downvoting all your pots, it would take me days to do that.
You are just pathetic for posting this lie and downvoting my aka totally normal post just cuse you have some hate apon me.

Don't like me ? just pass by bro ..

I downvoted your post because it didnt make any sense. Waiting for the round to finish implies dieing, how else would you wait for a round to end?
This is the first time i recall downvoting your post btw, so the notion of hating you for some reason is absurd.

(click to show/hide)

On topic: I rarely play on siege, i just got the impression that most of the time there is a clan steamrolling a pub. It could be that i just had bad luck or something but most of the time i lost. Tried to do objective/guard gates but most seem to care only about frags, the clans being the exceptions of course, hence why they win. It just lost its luster for me.

In battle i feel like i can make more of a difference, and you only get one shot at a round so imo the combat is more intense.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Gravoth_iii on November 27, 2013, 05:45:47 pm
(click to show/hide)

Lolwat, people actually get this upset by downvotes?
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Berserkadin on November 27, 2013, 05:59:14 pm
Siege, because I have fun there.

Also no rage from dying.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Kafein on November 27, 2013, 06:41:25 pm
The very goal of Battle mode is utterly stupid, therefore the only eligible candidate is siege.

Although when there are very few players left battle is probably better.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Prpavi on November 27, 2013, 06:49:26 pm
The very goal of Battle mode is utterly stupid, therefore the only eligible candidate is siege.

Although when there are very few players left battle is probably better.


Fight for your bare life against bloodrhirsty foes is stupid? I beg to differ Sir :curls moustache:
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: [ptx] on November 27, 2013, 06:50:37 pm
After my vote, the poll was exactly at 60 votes vs 60. :)

Considering that both EU1 and EU2 are somewhat evenly populated most of the time, i think we can conclude that this discussion is meaningless as there can be no agreement on which is more important.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Grumbs on November 27, 2013, 06:52:40 pm
I only really like battle, and anything I post on the forum about balance is geared towards that game mode

I like that dying matter so you have to be very careful with what you do, each decision can be important. Dying acts as kind of a punishment for screwing up for yourself and you feel bad for letting your team down. Also really like to have some time between rounds if I die just to take a break for a moment

I find siege is a bit too repetitive for me, I don't really care about the objective and feel the players around me just want to have some quick fights and then respawn and go back for more random fights. I lose interest fast in siege. If the respawning was slower or I felt people were really working together to win I could get into it more. There is just not enough punishment for dying
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Spurdospera on November 27, 2013, 06:53:32 pm
I like battle gamemode more because I feel that there is always potential for great tactics in field. Unlike in siege which I feel is just TDM where people just rush ahead to die and don´t give shit about any tactics.

Also in battle there´s much more variety of viable classes, in siege horsemen and pikers are pretty much useless when compared to str builds and 2h spammers.

Also Byz teamtactics <3
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Kafein on November 27, 2013, 06:56:28 pm

Fight for your bare life against bloodrhirsty foes is stupid? I beg to differ Sir :curls moustache:

The goal of battle is not your own survival, it is to kill the last survivor of the enemy team before your team loses its own last survivor.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Prpavi on November 27, 2013, 07:03:51 pm
The goal of battle is not your own survival, it is to kill the last survivor of the enemy team before your team loses its own last survivor.


And if you don't care about your own survival how do you expect to be the last survivor to kill off their last survivor and bring victory and multi to your team, so yes it is both about your own survival and killing too.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: kinngrimm on November 27, 2013, 07:35:55 pm
I prefer battle but due to constant increase of ranged, not playing it regularly for nearly 2 years now. If at any time the count of ranged players would feelable drop on eu 1 again, then i would be there also a constant player. As from what i saw in the past years concerning that topic, nothing was happening or the positiv feedback loop of ranged palyers was even increased, i see there no big chances taht every happening ... which makes me a sad panda  :cry:
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: woody on November 27, 2013, 07:39:27 pm
Battle can be fun late at night when you dont get banks of ranged or squadrons of cavalry.

However you can get 1 or 2 HA on low pop servers who while justified in playing that way means over half the time its watching an HA randomly galloping around occasionally firing which is seriously boring.

Basically siege has more melee, more fun, less down time.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Sir_Senior_the_Eldest on November 27, 2013, 07:52:22 pm
Siege of course (with more than 40 players). Battle is fine (with less than 40 players) but I like to have some story and tactics behind it.

No matter which terrain, the tactics on eu_1 is in general: Kill the enemy on the most effective way. There's no place to defend some special tower or a bridge or attack that beach. If you stay somewhere, you are often considered as ineffective or even a leecher only because you want to have some epicness.

In siege you can declare to defend this gate with your life(s) or take that tower on every price for the whole round.

And finally I love the HRE squatting when the yellow fellows special unit clashes into flag area and clears it like a pro or goes down in a flood of randomers or looks for an even enemy in a side skirmish vs greys.

Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Tindel on November 27, 2013, 07:58:53 pm
Battle is filled with lamers who only attack in groups and from afar or horseback.
If you want to actually fight people siege is the only gamemode that works atm.

I dont really like siege, i would like CTF or TDM instead.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: HUtH on November 27, 2013, 08:02:30 pm
I prefer battle but due to constant increase of ranged, not playing it regularly for nearly 2 years now. If at any time the count of ranged players would feelable drop on eu 1 again, then i would be there also a constant player. As from what i saw in the past years concerning that topic, nothing was happening or the positiv feedback loop of ranged palyers was even increased, i see there no big chances taht every happening ... which makes me a sad panda  :cry:
If I'm not mistaken you always play as a shielder with huscarl shield and high shield skill? How then shooters are a problem for you? Recently I started playing with shield(a small one) and the comfort of being covered from misiles is so huge... I just can't get your opinion, kinngrimm, would you like only pure melee fights?
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Grumbs on November 27, 2013, 08:06:50 pm
I prefer battle but due to constant increase of ranged, not playing it regularly for nearly 2 years now. If at any time the count of ranged players would feelable drop on eu 1 again, then i would be there also a constant player. As from what i saw in the past years concerning that topic, nothing was happening or the positiv feedback loop of ranged palyers was even increased, i see there no big chances taht every happening ... which makes me a sad panda  :cry:

Relying on range to counter range is the biggest problem of the game, and what I believe is the biggest contributer to the mod not flourishing like it could have. They even make it worse by making ranged effective melee hybrids, so they can get the best of both worlds as long as they can manual block
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Tzar on November 27, 2013, 08:11:01 pm
Siege = Goal to have fun

Battle = Goal to stay hidden from range, an hope your team survive the range fest.

I dont mind range, but when they start to take over 60% of each team, that just sucks out the fun in battle  :lol:
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: korppis on November 27, 2013, 08:32:12 pm
Never happened. Ladders coincided with the largest amount of ranged ever present in the game. No melee wasted time carrying ladders in case some xbow or archer happened to be camping 3 mins into the round. The only people that got a use out of them were ranged, camping otherwise unreachable spots. Suggesting that they were some kind of tactical buff for melee vs ranged is nonsensical.

That depended on the map. The maps where buildings were close enough to each others, one could make a roof-to-roof ladder path and cause some serious headache to archers. I do remember rounds when half the team actually went behind enemy lines over the roofs. However the maps where there were lone buildings, it ended up with ranged standing up there, unreachable (which was one reason why the ladders were removed as far as I know).
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Umbra on November 27, 2013, 08:32:43 pm
Siege = Goal to have fun

Battle = Goal to stay hidden from range, an hope your team survive the range fest.

I dont mind range, but when they start to take over 60% of each team, that just sucks out the fun in battle  :lol:

What if you are the ranged?  :lol:
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: NejStark on November 27, 2013, 08:37:09 pm
I think im in the minority because rather than hammer one class for ages I have lots of alts that I like to play in different modes. It depends what I want to play:

Wanna play cav - battle
Wanna play ranged - no preference
Wanna play 2h/pole - siege

Never want to play shielder... It just feels like im on my 1h cav but someone has killed my horse.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Kafein on November 27, 2013, 08:50:07 pm
Before I GTX cavalry I used to be a 100% battle player... duh
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Gurnisson on November 27, 2013, 09:55:29 pm
Battle. You barely have to use your brain in siege.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: the real god emperor on November 27, 2013, 09:56:48 pm
With friends : battle
Without friends : battle again.

siege is for people who dies too much.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Perverz on November 27, 2013, 10:07:42 pm
eu1
eu6
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Jarlek on November 27, 2013, 10:21:06 pm
I prefer objective based gamemodes so obviously I chose:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Ronin on November 27, 2013, 10:50:33 pm
Bring back commander mode! and rageball! and eu4! and defend the village! and conquest!
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: kinngrimm on November 27, 2013, 11:52:45 pm
If I'm not mistaken you always play as a shielder with huscarl shield and high shield skill?
you are mistaken,
4th gen(nearly 5th) thrower, but i play him only very rarely.
High Shield skill yes, but that doesnt help with ranged. It increases HP and slightly the block speed. The effect on the so called 'forcefield' is gone for quite a while now.
Huscarl i use less and less as with the 2h/pole high agi/ath and high levels i needed to keep up and Huscarl is too slow for blocks and too heavy so that 2h(pole get too easy in my back. 9 months back i used huscarl only for eu2 and elite cav only for eu 1, now i prefer elit cav at all times. On eu 2 as cosntant and often death is near gurantee, the shield doesnt coem close to breaking anyhow most of the time, more important for eu1 the shieldskill. And well 1 out of 30 days i may show up for one hour or two on eu 1 ...

How then shooters are a problem for you? Recently I started playing with shield(a small one) and the comfort of being covered from misiles is so huge
If you can't see it, perhaps you need 5k+ hours as shielder, to see the averrage and deduct the trends.

... I just can't get your opinion, kinngrimm, would you like only pure melee fights?
No i don't want pure melee fights, what i stated in another thread also, i imagine a maximum quota/% for weapons per team. like
on a 60 men team not more then say f.e.
15 shields
20 pole
20 2h
10 throwing
5 horses
...

the numbers cant be adjusted, but you get the idear ...

You could have changes from week to week, like a flavour of the week/month team composition, depending on that then the tactics should change drasticly on the server and the need to paly more with your alts may increase, because when you cant play your main char then you need to choose an alt.

Again i dont want pure Melee fights, but i want to be able again to go onto the flancs and not get shot to pieces all the time. *sigh*

I am realist enough to know that i still will be interrupted regularly from shots or th in the same way, well this game is rage inflicting after all that makes part of the apeal. Then again their are limits to my patience and to what i see still as fun. If i get constantly into situations which are not solvable by thinking it through and avoiding them, effort and improvment of my own skills, then a stage is reached where i have to decide if the fun factor is still there and if not, think about consequences. The consequence atm i have to live with for quite a long time is eu 2. You may or may not see the trends, i told admins and devs and the community about them a long time ago and i reminded them from time to time and i haven't seen anything yet which would have proofen me wrong.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: HUtH on November 28, 2013, 01:53:19 am
@ kinngrimm
well, most time I saw you with your infamous steelpick and some shield :P
Anyway as a long time no-shielder I know the irritation and stress caused by shooters and shield really makes playing easier when you don't need to hide, 'dance' and dodge missiles like crazy all the time. So I'm still a bit surprised that it's you and not some no-shielder that points so hard at the trend. I'm not so sure was there really pro-shooter trend lately, but after recent patch it might be true(theoretically for sure, wpf boost says that).
However I'm against class limits in this mod, it just doesn't fit the idea of "play what you want, because in this mod you can".
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: kinngrimm on November 28, 2013, 03:11:11 am
@ kinngrimm
well, most time I saw you with your infamous steelpick and some shield :P
Anyway as a long time no-shielder I know the irritation and stress caused by shooters and shield really makes playing easier when you don't need to hide, 'dance' and dodge missiles like crazy all the time. So I'm still a bit surprised that it's you and not some no-shielder that points so hard at the trend. I'm not so sure was there really pro-shooter trend lately, but after recent patch it might be true(theoretically for sure, wpf boost says that).
However I'm against class limits in this mod, it just doesn't fit the idea of "play what you want, because in this mod you can".
the trend exists since about 2 1/2 years, at least thats when i got aware of and i never saw it stop. There was not a particular event or patch or anything wich pointed toward it, just more and more ranged players i counted. Not only archers , but also xbow and throwers i include. Kafein and others called it a positiv feedback loop, where the more ranged there is , do create even more of the same kind, as it is the only real counter.
Surely there had been ups and downs, but in comparison to 2 1/2 years back with perhaps 20-30% in average of the server populations being ranged players we are now at 30 to 50% in average or more at times.
Also who else then a nolifer, often playing 24/7, would notice?^^

The irritation and stress with ranged as shielder has many sources.
- Xbow being able to shoot through
- kiting with high ath
- shooting into melee, the enemy aswell the friendly ^^ ranged, interrupting strikes and blocks
- if you meet more then 1, wich is the default, they spread into different directions, whoever you cant follow will shoot you anyhow in the back or in the side, shield = not worth jack shit
- eu 2 specific, we are now loosing rounds, because ranged is forgetting to cap. While we dont have enough melee for that, they play counterstrike ... that guys is fucked up!
... i guess i could think of more ...
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Porthos on November 28, 2013, 03:58:26 am
Playing the siege as an attacker you can use lots of different tactics. You can even capture the flag alone, without a single fight with the enemy. Or you can hunt for the best player of the opposing team to kill (or at least distract) him and help your team in this way. Or you can form multiple groups and take the flag from different sides. Or you can hunt ranged who shoots at your teammates. Or you can try to keep the gates opened. And in the end it is the best place where you can just fooling around not caring about how often you die :)

But I don't really like to play as a defender cuz sometimes teammates do not pay any attention to a team-chat. And if once I'm see a tons of enemies coming and then I write "FLAG" and nobody gives a shit... So then I basically raging a bit  :(
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Elindor on November 28, 2013, 07:06:28 am
Funny thing about this poll is that, if you just came in these forums and read some posts, you'd basically come to this conclusion : "well, only a handful of people like siege, most people here like battle"...and you'd expect battle to win this poll with like 70% of the votes or more.

Interesting....
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: IR_Kuoin on November 28, 2013, 09:24:24 am
Battle4lyfe. I maximum manage to play 2 rounds of siege before I leave because of boredom. Also in battle you can have / spectate end round duels which are always fun to watch.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Jeraz on November 28, 2013, 11:22:02 am
As ranged i like battle the most, i like the fact that you make a difference by killing a good player so that he won't be here to win the round for the enemy team.

I have tryed siege a lot and i enjoy it but i noticed that the thing i hate the most is that if i'm attacking and i'm in the castle, shooting people, i suddenly get backstabbed,because an enemy respawnd right behind me. Really enoys me cause there is nothing i can do about it.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Thomek on November 28, 2013, 11:23:38 am
Battle is now infested by endless bundle of sticksry, though it's what I play 90% of the time. (Because I'm masochistic??) I guess I get more pleasure from killing min-maxers, cav my old friends, all kinds of ranged.. ! Killing scrubs on siege doesn't give me a lot.  Battle has 1 thing and that is challenge! :D

Only reason I manage to survive is throwing, going medium armor/no shield is just murder. At least I can keep cav at bay, and throw shit to xbows and archers..

Why has Battle degenerated into a hardcore metagaming trollish nightmare?  (for infantry)

-- Skill levels in melee are much much higher.
-- This is pushing lots of players to go ranged or heavy cav. Or simply pushing melee to siege, so what we have left on battle is ranged and cav.
-- Ranged classes are still too easy. Especially xbow. (My lvl15 alt with no looms does fine with a heavy xbow)
-- Cav is too powerful, especially the bump mechanic, long 1handers with speedbonus etc..

What's the medicine? (just my opinion..)
-- Make ranged harder, aka nerf them somehow. Especially xbows who have a way too easy time. Hide'n reload, point and click.
-- Cav is by nature OP compared to Inf, and is only fully utilized by a very minority of players. They could be safely nerfed, leaving only people with brains to do well with them. 1 grain of teamwork makes them vastly more powerful i.ex. (Like, I saw Tommy and 1 more do a nice sandwich against 5 enemies yesterday.. Bumped half of them, killed 2 outright and survived.)

About a specific cav nerf, I think adjusting the maneuverability of horses would do a lot. This would make sure they travel in more predictable paths, can't turn on a dime, and will generally force them to teamwork more, aka bump trains, sandwiching, timing their charge etc.

Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Gnjus on November 28, 2013, 11:33:35 am
Why has Battle degenerated into a hardcore metagaming trollish nightmare?  (for infantry)
bla, bla, blabity bla


And/Or maybe because of useless unaware soloing-hero scrubs & swabs like you, who refuse to do anything useful for their team in the battlefield and care only about their own "fun", no matter how twisted, selfish & (possibly) against the common sense rule it might be.  You know - those guys who spend time hugging each other instead of killing themselves, solo "flankers" who rarely or never actually flank someone, etc. :twisted:
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Thomek on November 28, 2013, 11:38:36 am
idk but I think I do better than you.. :D

I do fine on the flanks btw.. At least I have the decency not to degenerate into a filthy, nasty xbower like you. Using dirty throwing against ranged and cav is just fine. They deserve it.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Harpag on November 28, 2013, 11:39:41 am
With friends/TS : siege
Without friends/ music + muted : battle

BTW - Gnjus u r useless for team - just egoistic K/D ratio whore (I saw this many times on EU1) so stfu  :wink:
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Molly on November 28, 2013, 11:45:32 am

And/Or maybe because of useless unaware soloing-hero scrubs & swabs like you, who refuse to do anything useful for their team in the battlefield and care only about their own "fun", no matter how twisted, selfish & (possibly) against the common sense rule it might be.  You know - those guys who spend time hugging each other instead of killing themselves, solo "flankers" who rarely or never actually flank someone, etc. :twisted:

idk but I think I do better than you.. :D

I do fine on the flanks btw.. At least I have the decency not to degenerate into a filthy, nasty xbower like you. Using dirty throwing against ranged and cav is just fine. They deserve it.

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Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Fartface on November 28, 2013, 11:46:04 am
No excitement in Siege, I don´t get punished for dying so why care.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Gnjus on November 28, 2013, 11:47:15 am
BTW - Gnjus u r useless for team - just egoistic K/D ratio whore (I saw this many times on EU1) so stfu  :wink:


Yes ofc, egoistic K:D ratio whore who never actually had a ratio better than 2:1 on any of his chars, simply because (unlike some Heroes) instead of pumping my score on shieldless peasants I try to help my team win by going for heavy horses who don't count as kills, or key enemy marksmen no matter how far they are and no matter how many bolts I need to waste to get them. Bright logic as ever, my dear friend Harpag. Do you homework better before brainfarting next time. 8-)
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Fartface on November 28, 2013, 11:50:16 am

Yes ofc, egoistic K:D ratio whore who never actually had a ratio better than 2:1 on any of his chars, simply because (unlike some Heroes) instead of pumping my score on shieldless peasants I try to help my team win by going for heavy horses who don't count as kills, or key enemy marksmen no matter how far they are and no matter how many bolts I need to waste to get them. Bright logic as ever, my dear friend Harpag. Do you homework better before brainfarting next time. 8-)
I actualy find you to quite a nice player in my team, taking out key targets and having a good focus when doing so. Harpag always rushes head first and dies in melee before you even fired your first bolt.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Ronin on November 28, 2013, 11:54:32 am
There are way too much infantry at this game, so the mod is tried to be balanced around them. This, I can understand to some degree. Infantry, by it's nature, is the least useful class in battle. Ranged can shoot from afar, cavalry has lots of space to outmanuever infantry. The only thing that an infantry can do is, to get close to the enemies to actually do something. Even then, infantry is at it's higher risk during that time; kinda encouraging him to play more safely somehow.

This is one of the contradictions I guess. Battle gamemode is a nightmare to infantry. It always been like this, even in other mods for me. I picked archer/cav for battle mostly, and infantry/archer for sieges mostly. When I try to play as cav in siege, I don't expect to be the dominant class. Same goes if I play as infantry in battle. It is both frustrating and challenging, in a good way somehow. That is one of the reasons why I choose siege gamemode when I want to bash some skulls, and choose battle-gamemode when I want to play differently.

What I don't understand is, why you keep insisting on playing battle as infantry and suggest that the gamemode should be balanced around it? Changing the gamemode to something else (for example, with earlier MoTF spawns, is one of the brilliant ideas) can be a better solution. Or you are free to change your class whenever you want to whatever you want. Wanna play battle? You fail as infantry and see cav/ranged as easy mode? You can simply change your class. There are ways for a cavalry to be useful in siege and for an infantry to be useful in battle, especially with the current balance.

I must also confess that I mostly suck at battle-gamemode. But I didn't really see much teamplay in it from other players. People are just randomly roaming around. For me, it is a much more gamemode with an objective in mind. One of the most obvious examples is, protecting your fellow infantrymen from cavalry as a spearman. I see Infantry's objective is to be anvil, not hammer. At least in the starting phase. If you don't want to be an anvil, pick a "hammer" class.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Molly on November 28, 2013, 12:00:20 pm
Why balance the game around Infantry? Rather simple... cuz those fighting mechanics is what makes the game special.

Archery/Xbow is the same mechanic as in every shooter really, point and release.
Horses are hardly innovative, more or less the same as most racing games if you think about it.

The only thing that makes M&B different compared to other games is the melee combat. Simple really...
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Angantyr on November 28, 2013, 12:10:16 pm
Battle for real play, siege for unserious, random fun whilst listening to music, making dinner, eating or for when my girl friend just can't stop bothering me while I'm playing battle.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Varadin on November 28, 2013, 12:53:58 pm
After reading this, Most of forum community prefer battle, which is ok, but , they seem to spit so hard on siege and it seems like everyone who says that they play on eu 1 are literally saying they are hardcore pros , Someone said you dont have to use brain in eu 2, well i personally know quite a good guys on eu 2 , probably better than 90% of eu 1 players , but lets not fight people , we should spread love <3
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Ronin on November 28, 2013, 01:20:28 pm
Why balance the game around Infantry? Rather simple... cuz those fighting mechanics is what makes the game special.

Archery/Xbow is the same mechanic as in every shooter really, point and release.
Horses are hardly innovative, more or less the same as most racing games if you think about it.

The only thing that makes M&B different compared to other games is the melee combat. Simple really...
Not really.

I think all three are unique in their own way.

Melee Combat: you all know

Ranged Combat: There is the crossair factor. It is important how close/spread it is. There is also the missile speed factor. Every type of ranged weapon has different uses and different ways to master. What is needed for all 3 is you need to aim well. You also need good timing with bows but they can be shot more repeatedly compared to crossbows. Throwing is a very different game, even if not completely different. Every weapon has different missile speed, making it a bit different than the others. In short, there are a lot of factors to take in mind just to shoot accurately as much as possible. Ranged classes also need to be played differently than each other and other classes too, such as positioning etc.
Calling all these "point and release" only means you don't know much about it. Then I suggest playing it more thoroughly, you are missing at least 1/3 of the game.

Mounted Combat: racing games? come on! It is just another unique part of the game. It is really hard to explain this for me, so I suggest playing it thoroughly too if you haven't already. Because you sound like you didn't really give it much of a chance. What I can say is, horses are much more vulnerable to missiles and most of the teammates refuse to teamplay with cavalry for some odd reason. Because of that, it was extremely frustrating for me; so I stopped playing cavalry. I'm probably not the best person to describe this.

Bonus
Mounted Ranged Combat: A mixture of the two previous. Arguably it is one of the easiest classes to play, but might actually be one of the hardest to master (to make a reliable impact on the game). I find my aiming to be worse in horseback compared to aiming on foot. It can be also hard both managing to aim well and handling a horse at the same time. It is not very counterable but it also has comparably low damage potential and requires comparably more skills to master. I think drossbows are easier to control than bows because bows also require careful timing and it is a bit weird to shoot with bows on horseback. They are also the king of kiting by their very nature, which is of course annoying.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Molly on November 28, 2013, 01:40:10 pm
You can produce as many WoT as you like:

The fact stands that the melee combat is to most demanding part in this game and the most special one.

Range is aim - shoot - adjust - aim - shoot... like every single FPS out there. Every shooter has different weapons which handle differently. No difference to archery.

I play a lot of HA lately and yes, it is like a racing car. You accelerate, you break, you turn left, you turn right. Nothing different to other racing games. Lancer cav is probably a class you could even play with a gamepad!

So... 4 directional combat is the outstanding game mechanic of M&B. That's the reason why it should be considered a priority.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Prpavi on November 28, 2013, 01:42:41 pm
Why balance the game around Infantry? Rather simple... cuz those fighting mechanics is what makes the game special.

Archery/Xbow is the same mechanic as in every shooter really, point and release.
Horses are hardly innovative, more or less the same as most racing games if you think about it.

The only thing that makes M&B different compared to other games is the melee combat. Simple really...


How about HA? They are quite special  :wink:
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Corwin on November 28, 2013, 01:46:54 pm
Or horse/xbow, my new favorite class...
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Molly on November 28, 2013, 01:52:47 pm

How about HA? They are quite special  :wink:
Special in a way only a mother can love, yes. :D
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Leshma on November 28, 2013, 03:39:48 pm
After reading this, Most of forum community prefer battle, which is ok, but , they seem to spit so hard on siege and it seems like everyone who says that they play on eu 1 are literally saying they are hardcore pros , Someone said you dont have to use brain in eu 2, well i personally know quite a good guys on eu 2 , probably better than 90% of eu 1 players , but lets not fight people , we should spread love <3

That's because k/d from battle is shown on site while k/d from siege is not. People do care about stuff like that, even though most won't admit it.

Some players are used to battle mode, because it gave bigger reward XP and gold wise. But since valour got implemented it's fairly easy to keep multi on siege, even if your team is losing. I think majority of players aren't aware of this or they just have a bad build for siege (to get a lot of points, it's best to have ton of armor and HP or be a shielder).
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Fips on November 28, 2013, 03:51:29 pm
Siege -> DTV - > Battle

I play siege most of the times because i enjoy to play with mah yellow buddies and kill ze grey horde, also when i want to play cRPG i want to play it, not die within 2 or 3 minutes by ranged or cav bumpslashing me and then wait for some HA or HX to be their class, only play battle more often when i'm xbow, archer or cav myself. And nowadays i hate battle so much that i rather spend some time on dtv and chill out killing bots. Last time i played battle for more than 1 round is quite some time ago.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: bavvoz on November 28, 2013, 03:57:28 pm
I dont think battle is more "pro". Im a casual player playing because its fun and im fully aware that theres ALOT of more skilled players than myself in every gamemode. What makes battle more interesting is that i have to calculate the risks more coz if i fail i have to pay more for it :)
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Ronin on November 28, 2013, 04:00:02 pm
You can produce as many WoT as you like:

The fact stands that the melee combat is to most demanding part in this game and the most special one.

Range is aim - shoot - adjust - aim - shoot... like every single FPS out there. Every shooter has different weapons which handle differently. No difference to archery.

I play a lot of HA lately and yes, it is like a racing car. You accelerate, you break, you turn left, you turn right. Nothing different to other racing games. Lancer cav is probably a class you could even play with a gamepad!

So... 4 directional combat is the outstanding game mechanic of M&B. That's the reason why it should be considered a priority.
Well ... yes. I can see your point. Hand to hand combat obviously is the most interesting of all 4 or 3 main playstyles. Yet I beg to differ about priorities, this doesn't make the other playstyles less of value in my eyes.

Besides, the game was actually built around this idea somehow. There are other gamemodes than battle, where hand to hand combat is of a priority.

Infantry is the dominant class in siege, for example. Cavalry is obviously very limited. Archers, while can be very good in defender side they are equally bad in attacker side. Plus, they can't the killing speed of the infantry. It is generally an infantry versus infantry fight, to capture strategically important places (gatehouse, flag, etc.). Even in native sieges, who wins the round is mainly decided by the factions and their focus in infantry (like infantry factions: nords, rhodoks).

Duel, it is commonly used for melee duels. It can be used for any kind of 1v1 combat though, but it is definitely the place to go if you want to enjoy a 1v1 scenario where your class has no disadvantages over a certain class (because they are the same class if you want them to be).

I am not mentioning the other gamemodes since we don't have them anymore; such are eu4 (the gamemode is battle, but I'd call this as "skirmish" as the pop was lower), rageball, commander mode, conquest. DTV is another story where the idea of balance is completely different.

Disclaimer: I'm not claiming that the gamemodes we have can not be improved. Siege is also more rewarding to tougher classes, and actually feels more like Team Deathmatch most of the time. This doesn't mean they can't be improved in some ways. My point is, there are different gamemodes for different classes to be more dominant. Still, on the other hand, no gamemode should give omnipotence to a certain class. That is fully agreed. And it is very close to that already, at the moment; if you ask me.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Tomas_Miles_again on November 28, 2013, 04:00:30 pm
I play battle mostly, especially when I have work to do that can run at the same time as Warband. But nowadays I have less time so when I do play I like to get more playtime, and with my build that kind of works out better on siege. Unless I stand around and hide.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: San on November 28, 2013, 04:00:42 pm
I like to tease siege and siege players, but I honestly like them both. NA siege just doesn't have enough players I want to fight a lot of the time (mostly wait until HG or KUTT or clan members are on) and I get a lot of playtime on battle since I survive pretty decently. I would still say I like battle more, it never gets dull for more than a day for me.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Joker86 on November 28, 2013, 05:12:47 pm
Neither game mode is really good, but I voted for battle since it is closer to a round based conquest mode, which is what the game would have needed while it was alive.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Kafein on November 28, 2013, 05:34:18 pm
-- Cav is by nature OP compared to Inf, and is only fully utilized by a very minority of players. They could be safely nerfed, leaving only people with brains to do well with them. 1 grain of teamwork makes them vastly more powerful i.ex. (Like, I saw Tommy and 1 more do a nice sandwich against 5 enemies yesterday.. Bumped half of them, killed 2 outright and survived.)

About a specific cav nerf, I think adjusting the maneuverability of horses would do a lot. This would make sure they travel in more predictable paths, can't turn on a dime, and will generally force them to teamwork more, aka bump trains, sandwiching, timing their charge etc.

Always the same bullshit, Thomek. I've counted how many cavs there are around primetime on EU_1 when I was there. And it seems you think 2 cav players per team is too much. They haven't been nerfed to oblivion enough with all the horse nerfs apparently. Decrease maneuver even one point and horses will simply stop turning, I guess that'll make them unable to do anything but sneak attacks. Who I am kidding, cav players dumb enough not to respec stopped doing any kind of open attack long ago anyway.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Erasmas on November 28, 2013, 05:39:28 pm
Siege.

Cave trolls love siege.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Molly on November 28, 2013, 05:49:39 pm
Always the same bullshit, Thomek. I've counted how many cavs there are around primetime on EU_1 when I was there. And it seems you think 2 cav players per team is too much. They haven't been nerfed to oblivion enough with all the horse nerfs apparently. Decrease maneuver even one point and horses will simply stop turning, I guess that'll make them unable to do anything but sneak attacks. Who I am kidding, cav players dumb enough not to respec stopped doing any kind of open attack long ago anyway.
2 cav per team? How long is it ago that you visited EU1? :lol:

Try 5-8 per team in the evening...
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Leshma on November 28, 2013, 06:22:25 pm
Neither game mode is really good, but I voted for battle since it is closer to a round based conquest mode, which is what the game would have needed while it was alive. Neither game mode is really good, but I voted for battle since it is closer to a round based conquest mode, which is what the game would have needed while it was alive. Neither game mode is really good, but I voted for battle since it is closer to a round based conquest mode, which is what the game would have needed while it was alive. Neither game mode is really good, but I voted for battle since it is closer to a round based conquest mode, which is what the game would have needed while it was alive. Neither game mode is really good, but I voted for battle since it is closer to a round based conquest mode, which is what the game would have needed while it was alive. 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Neither game mode is really good, but I voted for battle since it is closer to a round based conquest mode, which is what the game would have needed while it was alive. Neither game mode is really good, but I voted for battle since it is closer to a round based conquest mode, which is what the game would have needed while it was alive. Neither game mode is really good, but I voted for battle since it is closer to a round based conquest mode, which is what the game would have needed while it was alive. Neither game mode is really good, but I voted for battle since it is closer to a round based conquest mode, which is what the game would have needed while it was alive. Neither game mode is really good, but I voted for battle since it is closer to a round based conquest mode, which is what the game would have needed while it was alive. Neither game mode is really good, but I voted for battle since it is closer to a round based conquest mode, which is what the game would have needed while it was alive.Neither game mode is really good, but I voted for battle since it is closer to a round based conquest mode, which is what the game would have needed while it was alive. Neither game mode is really good, but I voted for battle since it is closer to a round based conquest mode, which is what the game would have needed while it was alive. Neither game mode is really good, but I voted for battle since it is closer to a round based conquest mode, which is what the game would have needed while it was alive. Neither game mode is really good, but I voted for battle since it is closer to a round based conquest mode, which is what the game would have needed while it was alive. Neither game mode is really good, but I voted for battle since it is closer to a round based conquest mode, which is what the game would have needed while it was alive. Neither game mode is really good, but I voted for battle since it is closer to a round based conquest mode, which is what the game would have needed while it was alive. Neither game mode is really good, but I voted for battle since it is closer to a round based conquest mode, which is what the game would have needed while it was alive. Neither game mode is really good, but I voted for battle since it is closer to a round based conquest mode, which is what the game would have needed while it was alive. Neither game mode is really good, but I voted for battle since it is closer to a round based conquest mode, which is what the game would have needed while it was alive. Neither game mode is really good, but I voted for battle since it is closer to a round based conquest mode, which is what the game would have needed while it was alive.Neither game mode is really good, but I voted for battle since it is closer to a round based conquest mode, which is what the game would have needed while it was alive. Neither game mode is really good, but I voted for battle since it is closer to a round based conquest mode, which is what the game would have needed while it was alive. Neither game mode is really good, but I voted for battle since it is closer to a round based conquest mode, which is what the game would have needed while it was alive. Neither game mode is really good, but I voted for battle since it is closer to a round based conquest mode, which is what the game would have needed while it was alive. Neither game mode is really good, but I voted for battle since it is closer to a round based conquest mode, which is what the game would have needed while it was alive. Neither game mode is really good, but I voted for battle since it is closer to a round based conquest mode, which is what the game would have needed while it was alive. Neither game mode is really good, but I voted for battle since it is closer to a round based conquest mode, which is what the game would have needed while it was alive. Neither game mode is really good, but I voted for battle since it is closer to a round based conquest mode, which is what the game would have needed while it was alive. Neither game mode is really good, but I voted for battle since it is closer to a round based conquest mode, which is what the game would have needed while it was alive. Neither game mode is really good, but I voted for battle since it is closer to a round based conquest mode, which is what the game would have needed while it was alive.

Fixed.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Thomek on November 28, 2013, 07:21:30 pm
Neither game mode is really good, but I voted for battle since it is closer to a round based conquest mode, which is what the game would have needed while it was alive.

Joker, the game is alive. Wake up.

Always the same bullshit, Thomek.
(click to show/hide)

Who can afford an open attack nowadays anyway? You want to charge head on to a prepared player? That would be really good for gameplay you know. Would very quickly clean out all targets until there were only cav and xbowers left in this mod.

Kafein, in a cav charging a melee player, who takes the biggest risk?
Can the cav player not just block if the melee player surprises him?
Who decides when to attack?
Who can run away?
Who can just wait around or ride to the next target?
Who has a 120+ armored animal that needs to be slaughtered before he can touch the rider?
Who can bumpslash, bumpcouch, bumplance the melee player?
Who can rapetrain the melee?
Who can just bump him and wait for the xbower in the bushes 100m away to snipe him while the inf is down?
Who doesn't have to worry about equipment weight?
etc etc..

Give me a break, you are the one full of BS about cav. You have so many tools and options, and if its hard to play cav, it's because you are not using them, or because the infantry player is more than 1 step better than you.

With all these advantages, cav is a class that can EASILY survive a nerf, and making them less like go-carts would not be the least unnatural.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on November 28, 2013, 07:30:55 pm
Joker, the game is alive. Wake up.

Who can afford an open attack nowadays anyway? You want to charge head on to a prepared player? That would be really good for gameplay you know. Would very quickly clean out all targets until there were only cav and xbowers left in this mod.

Kafein, in a cav charging a melee player, who takes the biggest risk?
Can the cav player not just block if the melee player surprises him?
Who decides when to attack?
Who can run away?
Who can just wait around or ride to the next target?
Who has a 120+ armored animal that needs to be slaughtered before he can touch the rider?
Who can bumpslash, bumpcouch, bumplance the melee player?
Who can rapetrain the melee?
Who can just bump him and wait for the xbower in the bushes 100m away to snipe him while the inf is down?
Who doesn't have to worry about equipment weight?
etc etc..

Give me a break, you are the one full of BS about cav. You have so many tools and options, and if its hard to play cav, it's because you are not using them, or because the infantry player is more than 1 step better than you.

With all these advantages, cav is a class that can EASILY survive a nerf, and making them less like go-carts would not be the least unnatural.
Thomek thanks for proving you don't understand shit about how cavalry works.

Not saying Kafein ain't sliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiightly over the top, but still.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Teeth on November 28, 2013, 07:42:01 pm
Kafein, in a cav charging a melee player, who takes the biggest risk?
Charging any infantry head on is very dangerous business as lancer cavalry and you really gotta be sure of yourself that you can pull it off. The speedbonus with which you plan to drive your lance through someones skull is the same speed bonus that is going to be applied to your or your horse if you fail. The difference is that your base damage is a 31p MW lance which gets a 27.25% damage penalty from being used on horseback. Which means you have a 22.5p attack, whereas the guy you are stabbing could have a 28p Great Sword, a 36p Awlpike or a number of weapons that will significantly outdamage you.

Also, if I block when charging a melee player my horse is gonna bite the dust, whereas if he simply downblocks he will get bumped, worst case scenario. As far as lancer cavalry goes, I use a level 32 build and usually around 70-80k gear and I fall slightly short of both my pole, 2h and swashbuckler infantry performance at least K/D wise. I do find that 1h cav has too high damage potential with low powerstrike builds, but I can't say lancer cav is OP. Especially now that every class has a very high reach stab and hoplites and 2D polearms are very popular.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: HUtH on November 28, 2013, 08:00:16 pm
Generally what's wrong with cav is the terrible horse animations, that the horse can't kick and bite, that the decision when too jump belongs only too player(so unrealistic), that nothing happens when cav hits a wall, etc., that some not warbred horses can just charge at infantry blob though it'd be possible a horse would just stop, etc.
Cavalry should be powerful, because it's a freakin' medieval blitzkrieg machine, but also in many situations it should be hard for a horseman to ride as he wants, just be harder to control and less like go-karts.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: San on November 28, 2013, 08:19:36 pm
Siding with Thomek there. If you get beat that badly as cav, the infantry was just that much better than you or you were just riding carelessly.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Gravoth_iii on November 28, 2013, 08:31:35 pm
Only 1h cav should be nerfed though. Lance cav are fine as they are now, no need for buffs or nerfs.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: wanteds on November 28, 2013, 10:09:15 pm
sieg cuz i liek spawn wen i ded.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Gurnisson on November 28, 2013, 10:15:16 pm
Lancer is stronger than 1h cavalry. :?
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: _schizo321437 on November 30, 2013, 12:32:46 am
Fixed.

I see what you did there.  :wink:
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: HUtH on November 30, 2013, 01:52:34 am
Lancer is stronger than 1h cavalry. :?
even than Royanss?
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Jarlek on November 30, 2013, 02:36:15 am
even than Royanss?
Player skill is not very relevant to class balance
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Osiris on November 30, 2013, 03:09:24 am
I disagree i fear 1h cavs far more than lancer cavs. Lancer cavs do far less damage and poss far less of a threat imo. often a bump slash is enough to 1 shot me while lancing does maybe 50% if that. not to mention bump lancing is near non existant so i can downblock. i can hold a shield against a 1h cav and he will jump bumb slash
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Oberyn on November 30, 2013, 05:43:06 am
Make weapon and armor weight affect horse speed and maneuver, the same way it affects speed on foot. Afaik horse stats aren't any different whether the person riding them is a tincan using a heavy lance, shield and 1H or naked with no weapons.
Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Elindor on November 30, 2013, 06:06:51 am
As for elitism of battle > siege...

I play a lot of both and generally do well enough in both - a little better in siege cause im used to it and because as infantry, sometimes battle can create scenarios that are difficult to deal with.

There are some SUPER good players in battle like San, Riran, Rohy, Cyranule, etc (NA people) and they come to siege and rape - but THEY RAPE in battle too just the same way, so that doesn't prove anything about the skill levels of the general population.  Players from battle that are not as good as those types of players come to siege and from my observation do not do any better than they do in battle.

Honestly?  General population - I find siege's population on NA to be just as good as battle's overall.  Siege on NA has become a small and vet filled conflict and so sometimes there's more "easy kills" in battle than in siege on NA.

Plus, many of you may find this counter to your thoughts - but having played a lot of both I generally find my performance in battle to be MORE situational (a result of teams or team makeups) than in siege.  You will lose a siege round if the other team is stacked, but your personal performance may not be as effected by it....whereas in battle, you will lose AND you have no hop of doing anything when your team gets steamrolled (unless you are one of those really good players I listed above or similar).

So again, the best players are good in both, and under  that (at least in NA) I find siege to actually have an equal to or slightly higher general skill level.

Title: Re: Battle vs Siege
Post by: Oberyn on November 30, 2013, 06:15:26 am
The divide in skill between siege and battle was true in the past, but hasn't been for quite a while. A lot of the people on siege now used to play battle a lot, or still do, and a lot of the people on battle also play siege. It's more or less the same player base anyways.