cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: brockssn on November 19, 2013, 08:43:23 pm

Title: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: brockssn on November 19, 2013, 08:43:23 pm
Since the change added crazy amounts of wpf and people are pushing 240 2h wpf 100 wpf is not even close to enough. So what is the new level of 'enough'? Is 160 ok to be able to swing between blocks against a 230 / 240 guy?
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: Nightmare798 on November 19, 2013, 08:48:47 pm
I think they went too far with this.

2h is simply unbearable now.

Get this: Shields received no buff, 1H was were nerfed, 2H is spammier than ever.

Thanks to the fact that 2H can hack at you even faster than before, wielding shield is practically a paid suicide.

Before you even lower your shield after blocking an attack, there is already another one coming with your name on it.
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: Penitent on November 19, 2013, 08:52:53 pm
I"m a shielder on NA siege.  I have a Spathovaklion (99 speed).

155 wpf seems to be ok -- but its more challenging now for sure.

Before the respec I had 125 wpf.  If I did not move up to 155, I would probably be in more trouble.


People are definitely more agi-spammy, but a little squishier too.
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: brockssn on November 19, 2013, 08:57:55 pm
I think they went too far with this.

2h is simply unbearable now.

Get this: Shields received no buff, 1H was were nerfed, 2H is spammier than ever.

Thanks to the fact that 2H can hack at you even faster than before, wielding shield is practically a paid suicide.

Before you even lower your shield after blocking an attack, there is already another one coming with your name on it.

but is that because they have 230 wpf and you may only have 100
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: San on November 19, 2013, 09:00:13 pm
If you only have 100wpf, you have like 9-10PS or you have pretty bad build problems if you're pure melee. Guys that have over 220 wpf can't wear any good armor and will die in 2 hits.
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: brockssn on November 19, 2013, 09:02:06 pm
If you only have 100wpf, you have like 9-10PS or you have pretty bad build problems if you're pure melee. Guys that have over 220 wpf can't wear any good armor and will die in 2 hits.

but they can literally keep spamming and you cant swing back
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: Nightmare798 on November 19, 2013, 09:04:23 pm
but is that because they have 230 wpf and you may only have 100

No, that is because:

1: Shield speed has not been changed acordingly to suit faster combat.
2: There has been nothing done with engine glitches, and in fact, this patch has made them worse.

Spammy katana weaboos were pain to fight while wielding shield pre-patch, now they are just toxic. (toxic means antifun to play against)

Quote
If you only have 100wpf, you have like 9-10PS or you have pretty bad build problems if you're pure melee. Guys that have over 220 wpf can't wear any good armor and will die in 2 hits.

They dont need armor, or health for that matter. All they need is turbo mode for their left mouse button.
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: Pentecost on November 19, 2013, 09:08:58 pm
but they can literally keep spamming and you cant swing back

Weren't you crawling around with a strength build, long axe, and heavy armor on NA1 yesterday?
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: brockssn on November 19, 2013, 09:09:33 pm
Weren't you crawling around with a strength build, long axe, and heavy armor on NA1 yesterday?

no? I'm eu
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: Nightmare798 on November 19, 2013, 09:10:07 pm
1h was nerfed? Erm, no. It's still OP. With my lvl 28  18/18 shielder alt with no IF and 6 PS and 155 wpf I have no problems fighting any other class. Also, 200 wpf? Those guys will die in one ranged shot or 1-2 hits from you, if you can't kill agi-whores, it's your own fault.

They wont because: 200wpf guys that go pure melee with 2H, they probably have agility so high that nobody is able to shoot them, especially when they are on move.

And yes 1H was nerfed, at least for me. I am refering to the likes of LEE. Otherwise, no it wasnt.

The problem is that time that it takes to lower your shield is still same, and that stats of shield are too same, means that you are going to be under obvious disadvantage.

If you want to rebalance the WPF distribution, you should also consider the impacts that it will have.
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: brockssn on November 19, 2013, 09:12:13 pm
They wont because: 200wpf guys that go pure melee with 2H, they probably have agility so high that nobody is able to shoot them, especially when they are on move.

And yes 1H was nerfed, at least for me. I am refering to the likes of LEE. Otherwise, no it wasnt.

The problem is that time that it takes to lower your shield is still same, and that stats of shield are too same, means that you are going to be under obvious disadvantage.

If you want to rebalance the WPF distribution, you should also consider the impacts that it will have.

how dare yee speak as if yee have a brain, racist
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: Penitent on November 19, 2013, 09:13:21 pm
I actually disagree with with some of these 1h points, but we may just use different tactics.

I find the best way to deal with a agi-ninja is to use a shield and a fast 1h.  I use a Heavy Heater Shield (not the fastest by far) and I find that super-agi doods usually have lower PS, so I don't really have to worry about them breaking my shield.  So I let them spam away until A) an opening is created, B) I can shield bash them and make an opening, C) a teammate comes behind them and whacks them.

I will concede two points though.  First, it's only been a day since the patch so maybe I haven't faced the same types of builds as you.   Also, the super agi builds ARE difficult to fight.  Whenever I encounter another sonic-speedo with an estoc, I give a heavy sigh and march in, shield raised...

:)
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: Nightmare798 on November 19, 2013, 09:17:20 pm
I actually disagree with you Warlord, but we may just use different tactics.

I find the best way to deal with a agi-ninja is to use a shield and a fast 1h.  I use a Heavy Heater Shield (not the fastest by far) and I find that super-agi doods usually have lower PS, so I don't really have to worry about them breaking my shield.  So I let them spam away until A) an opening is created, B) I can shield bash them and make an opening, C) a teammate comes behind them and whacks them.

I will concede two points though.  First, it's only been a day since the patch so maybe I haven't faced the same types of builds as you.   Also, the super agi builds ARE difficult to fight.  Whenever I encounter another sonic-speedo with an estoc, I give a heavy sigh and march in, shield raised...

:)

This patch reminded me of player called Ninja_Sinistra that I hated because she always managed to get a hit in after I blocked her attack, at bullshit angles no less.

And now we have tens of her likes.
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: brockssn on November 19, 2013, 09:18:55 pm
P.S: On my shielder alt I am playing with a non-loomed steel shield, probably one of the slowest shields in the game and an italian sword. I have no problems fighting any other class as I said, so it isn't shields or 1h that is to slow or "UP".
 

what is your build / stats
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: Pentecost on November 19, 2013, 09:20:26 pm
no? I'm eu

http://forum.melee.org/general-discussion/free-loompoint/msg751398/#msg751398

This post and others in your post history would seem to suggest that you're the same Brock that was formerly in Teutonic, who is an NA player that I saw just yesterday racking up a respectable number of kills by one-shotting most of the people who got in range of him with his axe.
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: brockssn on November 19, 2013, 09:21:35 pm
http://forum.melee.org/general-discussion/free-loompoint/msg751398/#msg751398

This post and others in your post history would seem to suggest that you're the same Brock that was formerly in Teutonic, who is an NA player that I saw just yesterday racking up a respectable number of kills by one-shotting most of the people who got in range of him with his axe.

no englais?
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: HUtH on November 19, 2013, 09:23:11 pm
learn chambers
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: Nightmare798 on November 19, 2013, 09:24:50 pm


You quoted yourself? LOL?

Ok ok, so, you think that overauling WPF distribution without adjusting other aspects to fit faster combat is fine?

Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: Nightmare798 on November 19, 2013, 09:26:03 pm
learn chambers

Chambering 200wpf spammy longsworder is a suicide, and chambering is a technique that can absolutely not be relied upon.

EDIT: Double posted, sorry.
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: Nightmare798 on November 19, 2013, 09:27:13 pm
Does any of you actually read what other people write? brockssn asked what build I use on my 1h alt, which I said before, so ofc I quoted myself ... omg, I'm out of this

I was refering to the first bit but ok whatever.
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: HUtH on November 19, 2013, 09:32:34 pm
Chambering 200wpf spammy longsworder is a suicide, and chambering is a technique that can absolutely not be relied upon.

EDIT: Double posted, sorry.
well... I can't see anything else to say but "get use to new situation or don't play".
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: Gravoth_iii on November 19, 2013, 09:58:09 pm
Gameplay is being sped up with higher wpf's, its good.
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: San on November 19, 2013, 10:40:55 pm
You have some workarounds available to you for getting spammed, and they also need a few more hits before they'll be able to kill you.

You can use a faster weapon yourself to overcome the speed difference, rely on stunning their blocks with a heavy weapon, learn to react as fast as possible after a block, learn to chamber a non-held swing (same timing each time), and more.

Chambering 200wpf spammy longsworder is a suicide, and chambering is a technique that can absolutely not be relied upon.

EDIT: Double posted, sorry.

If they don't hold, a swing can be chambered with the same timing nearly 100% of the time. (only time it doesn't are very bad/odd angles where they'll glance on you anyways. Stabs on the other hand...
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: Lecram on November 19, 2013, 10:49:10 pm
lol i use 112 wpf onehanded and its still nice with the right weapon im fast and can kill the most guys with mymelee sword with 103 speed so i think 112 wpf are fine with the right weapon
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: Tovi on November 19, 2013, 10:52:31 pm
Maybe it's time to quit cRPG for me. My build is broken, I can't even more be a 1h/thrower +shield. I've built this character for long time and I don't want to start again with a single shielder or a pure thrower. Too boring.
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: Penitent on November 19, 2013, 10:55:55 pm
Maybe it's time to quit cRPG for me. My build is broken, I can't even more be a 1h/thrower +shield. I've built this character for long time and I don't want to start again with a single shielder or a pure thrower. Too boring.

Hybrids were buffed with this patch...you get way more wpf if you can get 6 or more WM.  You just have to adapt your build.
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: Molly on November 19, 2013, 11:01:22 pm
Another Chamber of Tears candidate :D
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: Macropus on November 19, 2013, 11:27:34 pm
So many myths here...
people are pushing 240 2h wpf
but they can literally keep spamming and you cant swing back
200wpf guys that go pure melee with 2H, they probably have agility so high that nobody is able to shoot them, especially when they are on move.
PS: now I see that red lightsabers don't come out of nothing.
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on November 19, 2013, 11:28:03 pm
Stop trying to duel 240 WPF katana wielders.  Problem solved.  Or chamber block them.  Or get a faster weapon (that's your problem is my guess, not your WPF if you have 100)
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: Gurnisson on November 19, 2013, 11:40:05 pm
If you have problem blocking them with their speed, check if you have weapon trail activated or not in the options menu. I had it on full and it makes attacks harder to read. Switched to none and it's a lot easier.
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: Jarold on November 20, 2013, 01:08:09 am
Eh I use a Iron War Axe (shit reach and slowest 1h but you'll feel it when it hits) and I have like 103 effective wpf with armor weight. It is harder but not by much, you just need to have a faster reaction time and when there is an opening release fucking hell on earth!
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on November 20, 2013, 01:25:19 am
Throwing lances I can understand as a problem. 21 strength and 7 PT (I'm sure you are getting PS too if you want to level polearm skill) is a big investment and keeps you from getting very high levels of WM. 1H/throwing with axes is a little easier to stat out since you aren't forced into high str/skill investments by the item. 15 or 18 strength with full PT/PS leaves lots of room to pump your agility.

It would be nice if increasing throwing wpf gave you a bonus to 1H and polearm, like the melee skills share now. Just don't make it stack with the melee one, otherwise there'd probably some goofy build with points into throwing wpf but no power throw. And that's dumb.
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: Brrrak on November 20, 2013, 01:47:00 am
I hate to be disrespectful, but I'm masturbating furiously to this thread  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: Biggie_Smaxx on November 20, 2013, 01:51:14 am
update ist ok, but only if they buff archer and 1h now. otherwise its just a fucking joke.
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: Tovi on November 20, 2013, 10:20:10 am
Throwing lances I can understand as a problem. 21 strength and 7 PT (I'm sure you are getting PS too if you want to level polearm skill) is a big investment and keeps you from getting very high levels of WM. 1H/throwing with axes is a little easier to stat out since you aren't forced into high str/skill investments by the item. 15 or 18 strength with full PT/PS leaves lots of room to pump your agility.

It would be nice if increasing throwing wpf gave you a bonus to 1H and polearm, like the melee skills share now. Just don't make it stack with the melee one, otherwise there'd probably some goofy build with points into throwing wpf but no power throw. And that's dumb.

That's my problem. But I've just see that Throwing requirment gets from 13 to 11. I may go from 24/15 to 21/18. Does Thr 120 wpf equal to old 130 wpf ?

Throwing axe is just shity. I master the throwing lance, it's my main weapon.
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: Nightmare798 on November 20, 2013, 04:22:44 pm
So many myths here... PS: now I see that red lightsabers don't come out of nothing.

Red lightsabers are given to people who dont get why the fuck should 2H be faster than any other weapon type and cut everything
in half while the user bashes his head constantly on keyboard and still tops the goddamn board.

People say that shields are for no skill noobs that cannot block, but seriously, since when was the last time that 2H required careful calculation of range and speed? When was the last time that 2H users did anything else than facehugged everyone (or backpedaled) and spammed LMB at angles where 1H would harmlessly bounce off?

I dont want to disrespect 2H players, many of them are great and skillful players, I am just tired of those fucks who dash at me and circle jerk around me while their attacks, regardless how awfully they are landed, hit me for full damage.

Combat is not anymore about who is better at combat, it is now who gets behind the other ones back first while hitting LMB like madman.

Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: Tindel on November 20, 2013, 04:43:36 pm
I dont notice a difference at all in speed of combat.

The biggest difference is that fewer people run high tanky str builds, and that there is way way more ranged.
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: Tovi on November 20, 2013, 06:33:30 pm
I must apologize. The new throwing ratio 13==>11 is fine. I can use my throwing lance even with less wpf.
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: Rebelyell on November 20, 2013, 06:39:54 pm
Red lightsabers are given to people who dont get why the fuck should 2H be faster than any other weapon type and cut everything
in half while the user bashes his head constantly on keyboard and still tops the goddamn board.

People say that shields are for no skill noobs that cannot block, but seriously, since when was the last time that 2H required careful calculation of range and speed? When was the last time that 2H users did anything else than facehugged everyone (or backpedaled) and spammed LMB at angles where 1H would harmlessly bounce off?

I dont want to disrespect 2H players, many of them are great and skillful players, I am just tired of those fucks who dash at me and circle jerk around me while their attacks, regardless how awfully they are landed, hit me for full damage.

Combat is not anymore about who is better at combat, it is now who gets behind the other ones back first while hitting LMB like madman.
you are new over here,
we oldmy old friends have easy solution
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: Nightmare798 on November 20, 2013, 06:45:42 pm
you are new over here,
we oldmy old friends have easy solution
(click to show/hide)

As in, respec into 12/24 weaboo bundle of sticks katana whore with 13 athletics?  :rolleyes:

Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on November 20, 2013, 06:48:04 pm
you are new over here,
we oldmy old friends have easy solution
(click to show/hide)

TRUTH!

It's just ironic coming from you
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: Nightmare798 on November 20, 2013, 06:51:10 pm
12/24 and 13 athletics?

(click to show/hide)

Ok that was pretty dumb.

Anyways, do me a favor and go tell this shit to people who complained about rondel dagger, thanks.
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: Rebelyell on November 20, 2013, 07:28:36 pm
TRUTH!

It's just ironic coming from you
why?
Title: Re: 100 wpf is no longer 'ok'
Post by: woody on November 20, 2013, 08:02:54 pm
Everyone is more agi spammy on average.

I find 1h seem the hardest to block when they are close.

This patch must have been a gift to those with low ping.

Give it some time though, I think the strength builds were OP.