Well history on WW1 will be rewritten thanks to books like this http://www.amazon.com/The-Sleepwalkers-Europe-Went-1914/dp/006114665X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1384162208&sr=8-1&keywords=The+Sleepwalkers
and the same might happen to WW2, only partially ofc, and it will most likely take another 30 years before respectable historians grow the balls to publish it :P.
Well history on WW1 will be rewritten thanks to books like this http://www.amazon.com/The-Sleepwalkers-Europe-Went-1914/dp/006114665X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1384162208&sr=8-1&keywords=The+SleepwalkersYep, questioning WW2 is still a career suicide for any historian. Have to wait a few more decades before we start getting objective accounts of it.
and the same might happen to WW2, only partially ofc, and it will most likely take another 30 years before respectable historians grow the balls to publish it :P.
Yep, questioning WW2 is still a career suicide for any historian. Have to wait a few more decades before we start getting objective accounts of it.
Germany was solely blamed for WW1 to happen in the first place (this is probably still being teached in school, at least here in germany) and this lead to the treaty of Versailles, imo the 3. Reich wouldn't have happend without the Versailles treaty at all. Btw Germany paid the last reparations for WW1 in 2010..
hmm reading the reviews and overview i don't see how he rewrites ww1 history? most of the points seem well known he just focuses more on individuals and the actual spark that sets war off rather than the build up.
"Drawing on new scholarship, Clark offers a fresh look at World War I, focusing not on the battles and atrocities of the war itself, but on the complex events and relationships that led a group of well-meaning leaders into brutal conflict.
Clark traces the paths to war in a minute-by-minute, action-packed narrative that cuts between the key decision centers in Vienna, Berlin, St. Petersburg, Paris, London, and Belgrade, and examines the decades of history that informed the events of 1914 and details the mutual misunderstandings and unintended signals that drove the crisis forward in a few short weeks."
afaik this area is already well covered and taught in great detail. unless im totally mistaken ofc :D
hmm the way they teach it here (in uk at my school at least) is that everyone was to blame. Germany was no more guilty than anyone else its just the fact they lost that the french mainly blamed them. we learn all about the rivalries in the Balkans the british and french imperialism etc etc :P at A level at least most of it was studying how much the UK fucked up the world from the middle east to india/pakistan to ireland and then we learn a lot about the causes of ww1
and the same might happen to WW2, only partially ofc, and it will most likely take another 30 years before respectable historians grow the balls to publish it :P.
Germany was solely blamed for WW1 to happen in the first place (this is probably still being teached in school, at least here in germany) and this lead to the treaty of Versailles, imo the 3. Reich wouldn't have happend without the Versailles treaty at all. Btw Germany paid the last reparations for WW1 in 2010..
The book is basically taking the blame from Germany spreading it over all the countries involved, which did many books before ofc, but mostly unrecognised/ignored by historians and the media.
Yep, questioning WW2 is still a career suicide for any historian. Have to wait a few more decades before we start getting objective accounts of it.
if you give me evidence or any other facts maybe in form of a video ? and what he said is true , the only thing is he might have let out some facst out of his theory. but its not completely wrong. I dont agree 100% obviously.
I would recommend applying common sense, Erzengel, if you had any. Alas...
”If you need to invoke your academic pedigree or job title for people to believe what you say, then you need a better argument."
—Neil deGrasse Tyson
So instead you invoke your supposed knowledge of the academic world. Ok.
So your hypothesis is that if a historian put forth the suggestion that the holocaust didn't take place or was greatly exaggerated, he wouldn't be committing academic suicide?
so what your trying to say xant (apart from trolling) is that if a historian publishes a paper with very very few sources or evidence and there being lots of sources and evidence to the contrary that they are committing academic suicide not because their theory may be heavily flawed but because of the way the academic world works? Was the scale of the holocaust exaggerated in an attempt to gain more sympathy for an Israeli state? Possibly, if the guy provides some kind of evidence and rational reasoning then it wont be academic suicide.Nope, right now it'll be academic suicide no matter what. Too sensitive a subject, won't matter what you actually say. Same way you'll get called a Nazi if you make anti-immigrant statements. The history of academics is full of subjects that were too sensitive for their time and suppressed, only to be found correct later on. Darwinism and sociobiology were curse words for a long time because of the eugenic programs and social Darwinism.
Has Xant not always been like this or has he just been posting a lot more? I am trying to figure out why it took me 3 years to notice what an insufferable cunt he is.
Xant is right.
Examples? :rolleyes: I can assure you that the historiography of The Second World War in total won't change much. For sure there are academic debates about certain aspects of it (like with every other historical object), especially about structures, intentions or scope of action, but the history of events (Ereignisgeschichte) is very well explored. It has nothing to do with the "lack of balls" of respectable historians. All these conspiracy theories are just not based on reliable sources. They are only politically motivated opinions (mostly comming from people who are amateurs and not historians) which have nothing to do with academic research.I obviously can't give you any examples, because I don't know if any of the various revisionist theories are true or not. But history in written/influenced by the victor and it takes a long time for it to be corrected, as you can see on the discussed example about the beginning of WW1, which was a historical fact for decades as well..
Xant knows the academic world but fucks up a simple forum quote... Oh boy... you're so full of it... :rolleyes:
Xant knows the academic world but fucks up a simple forum quote... Oh boy... you're so full of it... :rolleyes:Benkei, m'boi, first of all, the academic world has nothing to do with forum quotes. Second, which quote did I fuck up?
Benkei, m'boi, first of all, the academic world has nothing to do with forum quotes. Second, which quote did I fuck up?
[...] If you're interested in examples, search for them yourself.There you go, a proper answer.
There you go, a proper answer.I was just going to help you try and make an insult that isn't based on a non sequitur, but alright.
Some quote from Teeth calling Xant a cuntIt's funny that you quote that seeing as you're 100% the kind of person who calls people who make anti immigration statements chocolate chip cookies.
It's funny that you quote that seeing as you're 100% the kind of person who calls people who make anti immigration statements chocolate chip cookies.visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Well i dont really know Xant, if hes trolling or serious, so maybe its pointless to write , anyway.Dunno about his speaking abilities, but for me the most impressive thing about einstein is that he was able to come up with the theories of relativity and special relativity in his study, just by thinking about how things would work if he had to build the universe.
There is actually a lot of stuff to admire about einstein, his speaking abilities for example. Ofc there is a ton of stuff not really to admire...
He was not a complete retard , he pulled out the german population out of the most miserable years since the creation of Germany, the financial crisis and the versailles treaty which made the germans suffer as never before. With his speaking skills and his charisma (or manipulation, whatever u wanna call it) he pulled Germany out of this. im letting out the following actions of him.
Germany was solely blamed for WW1 to happen in the first place (this is probably still being teached in school, at least here in germany) and this lead to the treaty of Versailles, imo the 3. Reich wouldn't have happend without the Versailles treaty at all. Btw Germany paid the last reparations for WW1 in 2010..
The book is basically taking the blame from Germany spreading it over all the countries involved, which did many books before ofc, but mostly unrecognised/ignored by historians and the media.
The way I learnt about it in the UK, it spreads the blame comfortably everywhere. I've also read a good few best selling novels that do the same. I've rarely read books that pin the blame on Germany solely. Interesting that in Germany they teach that.Exactly, over here they teach spread responsibility and a certain inevitability which makes Germany not look much or even any worse than the other countries involved, and have been teaching such a view since forever. Are you sure they teach full German responsibility in Germany Nubert? Very surprising indeed.
They don't teach that in Germany. Probably depends on the teacher and school level but usually it is broken down as a result of the late imperialism with almost everyone involved being responsible.
15 years ago, when I had history in school they did.
Obviously it was a completely new theory for our mainstream media, since pretty much all of the big newspapers wrote an article about the book and I am certain it is still the official stance of our government, why else would they have paid reparations for WW1 in 2010?
http://www.focus.de/wissen/mensch/geschichte/tid-33895/wer-zettelte-den-ersten-weltkrieg-an-historiker-stellt-deutschlands-kriegsschuld-infrage_aid_1119586.html
http://www.tagesspiegel.de/kultur/christopher-clark-ueber-den-ersten-weltkrieg-die-jahrhundertkatastrophe/8964830.html
http://www.welt.de/geschichte/article121231599/Besessen-von-der-deutschen-Kriegsschuld.html
http://www.zeit.de/2013/43/erster-weltkrieg-ausbruch-gespraech-christopher-clark-manfried-rauchensteiner
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/christopher-clark-die-schlafwandler-defensiver-patriotismus-12616149.html
visitors can't see pics , please register or loginI don't even like Xant, not my fault you manage to be the bigger retard in this topic like usual, you even outshine Bjord on rare occasion.
Oh look, Xant's little sidekick! :D
I don't even like Xant, not my fault you manage to be the bigger retard in this topic like usual, you even outshine Bjord on rare occasion.no u
World War I reparation costs ended in germany around 2010, now it ww II , and a lot payments to victims of the holocoust including the israelian state, who use the money to buy weapons, the irony.I don't find it particularly ironic that they want to ensure it never happens again.
http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2023140,00.html
Although an expansion into Palestine isn't exactly self-defense...Everyone needs a little lebensraum.
Although an expansion into Palestine isn't exactly self-defense...Actually, yes it is, considering the constant rocket attacks from Palestine.
It could be argued that they are not.It could be argued that goats fly whenever people look in the other direction, doesn't make it more true.
I wont post my opinion regarding this matter, because cmp is lurking at the forum, and I don`t want to end up banned :mrgreen:visitors can't see pics , please register or login
But before I go I want to say this.
Molly, drop your higher than thou attitude, you aren`t cool, you are just one obnoxious little cunt, ok, we got it by now, you hate that you are a German, you hate those who fight for their countries and their country men, you hate your culture, your history, everything.
Just shut up.
That would violate causality.Causality is a whore, she's used to it.
They don't teach that in Germany. Probably depends on the teacher and school level but usually it is broken down as a result of the late imperialism with almost everyone involved being responsible.