Can't crutch camping spots anymore? Poor you. Hope you enjoy the other changes I made to other maps.
Can't crutch camping spots anymore? Poor you. Hope you enjoy the other changes I made to other maps.
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It's this map. I removed that staircase on the left and the ladder that is in the square ruined area on the right.
Who the hell builds their farm next to ruins? No good reason for that.
Who the hell builds their farm next to ruins? No good reason for that.I am curious which team you say gets to control the top. Both teams should be able to at least get on top of both walkways before the other one manages to lock it down, which makes the top go to whichever team pushes hardest on it or manages to flank to one of the other two ways up. There are 3 ways up that top of which each team gets to one first, and the third way up should be fairly centered. Can't believe it's worse than spawning each team on top of great camping spots.
I noticed they changed another map, nord village themed one. They attempted to make the spawn points better, but one team still controls the top, so it's arguably worse now, since the new bottlenecks are narrower.
The spot on the left was camped by ranged in EU continously and was much closer to one team then the other. As you can see, the ruin top where the staircase leads to allows multiple ranged to completely lock down that location as they can shoot even shielders from both the front and the back simultaneously. Believe me, I have tried to get up there as a shielder. Multiple ranged up there near the end of the round are extremely hard to beat and it happened often. Spot on the right was rarely part of gameplay but for the sake of consistency I'm not not gonna leave that one in as it won't add anything to gameplay apart from camping and drawing out rounds.Teeth I never noticed massive campfest in those areas tbh. Its true that range used those points as they were the highest places on the map, but as an infantry i didnt see any problem with that. I see your point in trying to even maps for every one, but as others say its just ends up dumbing down the game with no tactics whatsoever. People are basically forced a certain path. Thats one reason why i started hating maps since people started editing native/old maps. What we need in maps is Diversity, current maps do not have it.
Quick and balanced rounds are my priority.
Teeth I never noticed massive campfest in those areas tbh. Its true that range used those points as they were the highest places on the map, but as an infantry i didnt see any problem with that. I see your point in trying to even maps for every one, but as others say its just ends up dumbing down the game with no tactics whatsoever. People are basically forced a certain path. Thats one reason why i started hating maps since people started editing native/old maps. What we need in maps is Diversity, current maps do not have it.I disagree with tactics and diversity consisting of one entrance buildings being more reachable by one team. There are still plenty of advantageous locations or positions, but they are not going to be an instawin for the team that gets there first. Camping spots should be reachable by both teams and should not create dead lock situations, preferably both these conditions at the same time, any spot that fulfills neither is gonna get removed by me if I notice it.
Bring native village map back! (the khergit style village with walls surrounding it for those who dont know it)
I disagree with tactics and diversity consisting of one entrance buildings being more reachable by one team. There are still plenty of advantageous locations or positions, but they are not going to be an instawin for the team that gets there first. Camping spots should be reachable by both teams and should not create dead lock situations, preferably both these conditions at the same time, any spot that fulfills neither is gonna get removed by me if I notice it.
Native Village is a terrible map. One team spawns inside a walled area with access to much better positions, it's half a siege map. The entire map has billions of dead end camping spots or spots only reachable by extreme Warband parkour. The map is extremely unfocused with people not able to find eachother for minutes. Sorry, but Native Village is not going to see the light of the rotation as long as I am a scene manager. The only reason people like it because they already know it, if I would map such a map now it would be howled of the server.
nice to force your opinion on everybody, appreciate it
Like that one village map with the big tower in the center. Sometimes people ignored the tower and it was only occupied by a couple of archers and maybe a ninja. Sometimes a whole team piled in and threatened to kill hostages unless their demands were met. Sometimes half the team piled in and the rest of them died because they were outnumbered and it was a colossal failure. Etc. It made the map really interesting and dynamic... until someone said "fuck towers" and sealed the doors. Now every round on that map is the same since everyone just runs into the village and kills each other and it's totally lame.
Fucking ranged bitches ! How dare they using maplayout to their advantage !!?Next time you GTX, give me your looms.
Good work Teeth but I have an even better suggestion. You notice how most maps have flat surfaces somewhere around ? Everytime I see tons of Cav there and as Cav are complete cunts they always use this to their advantage to get up to max riding speed and couch people while doing so. I think you should totally add at least one wooden fence piece for every 2 m² where ground is flat in any map. That will teach them cunts not to crutch good riding spots !!!!!
Next time you GTX, give me your looms.
Now feed me your -1
+1
Sorry :(
Yeah why is there a car on the map? NerfCars OP, nerf plz.
Teeth, I don't get why you'd removed these staircases but not block off the uncavreachable upper floors on ruins in Native - Ruins, those places are far better camping spots, are camped far more, and provide cover from ranged.
Teeth, I don't get why you'd removed these staircases but not block off the uncavreachable upper floors on ruins in Native - Ruins, those places are far better camping spots, are camped far more, and provide cover from ranged.Ruins is a bit unfair with the good positions one team's ranged gets, but there is no real way to really modify that position without changing up the entire map and people love Ruins dearly so I don't dare to touch it. It's that one ruined prop though which just provides a good camping spot in many maps by default because it is a one entrance room on the top floor. It's pretty easy to scale a 1 meter high staircase though compared to a 4 meter high one while ranged pours down on you or from the front and back for the last bit.
maybe people who arent favouring certain classes should make mapsOh yeah, this comment. I am fairly sure that anyone is free and encouraged to make maps, so if you consider yourself such a person, please make maps. If people want more diverse or funny maps, there are still some cool unexplored ideas with siege towers in battle, cool things you can do with gates and I think you can doorpault by opening stretched doors. I myself think that gimmicky fun quickly wears off for people and that they prefer a 'boring' but solid regular battle experience. I do not favour certain classes, I just do not enjoy camping because it draws out rounds while keeping most players waiting to be able to play again. Whether its done on hard to reach high ground by ranged or small entrance buildings by melee. I prefer not to add maps without any cover because crossbows and melee get a rough time and I do not add dungeon maps because they are unplayable for cav and archers. My goal is that any class can play any kind of character and have a good time, preferably without having 6 minute rounds all the time because people have to wait for flags because of superior camping positions.
Also, your map is out of the rotation...at least get your facts straight.Am I correct in sensing a slight rude undertone? And if you read my post properly instead of just shittalking it you'd notice that I said "Also I'm guessing you either missed it or never edited the current map cycle post, but I requested my map be removed due to a satisfying fix taking longer than I'm willing to spend making right now.", which proves that I looked at the only source available to us and even though it hadn't been edited since September figured better safe than sorry. Ain't it a bit silly that one of the two guys who are supposed to be providing the server rotation information looks down on me for not knowing it when he hasn't provided it?
These kinds of changes just dumb down the game and make interesting maps like this boring and generic.
Like that one village map with the big tower in the center. Sometimes people ignored the tower and it was only occupied by a couple of archers and maybe a ninja. Sometimes a whole team piled in and threatened to kill hostages unless their demands were met. Sometimes half the team piled in and the rest of them died because they were outnumbered and it was a colossal failure. Etc. It made the map really interesting and dynamic... until someone said "fuck towers" and sealed the doors. Now every round on that map is the same since everyone just runs into the village and kills each other and it's totally lame.
Removing the stairs/ladder on "Farm By Ruins" doesn't really bother me since I never used them anyway, but I am bothered by the general trend that these changes represent.
Can't crutch camping spots anymore? Poor you. Hope you enjoy the other changes I made to other maps.
Dude that was one of my favorite maps until someone plugged up the tower. As a guy who loved that map as it was when I was ranged and melee, it really should be reopened. Was awesome to have last stands in that tower or to surround it and rush it.I always played on regular battle maps, and seeing all those closed buildings and towers never really made me do anything other than walk around in circles hunting random players. Whenever I played on NA_Community however, it would mostly have the exact same maps, but they would have almost all of the buildings open and garrisonable.
It really killed that map for me when it was closed off. Had that map come out with the tower already closed off it might still be ok but once you had the taste of it.. it just doesn't do it for you anymore once its gone.
Balance as a gaming term, doesnt mean "same chances"( it never really did), this is a broadly missunderstood fact - which is why its better to refer to "design" instead ... the balance act is between intended player experiance and the rest of the game .. which includes, the experiance of many other players in an MMO (obviiously), the game engine and other technical limitations among other things to consider.
I do actually appreciate Teeth's intent , to minimize map caused, extensive, boring, round delaying effects, if and only if those are glitches.
On the other hand i can fully understand and agree with voices, who demand their freedom of gameplay - especially in a case like this, where there are aparently, artificial restrictions applied to a map, despite the ability of the game engine to provide a certain instance/grade of freedom.
Imho .. this might be about the worst type of a design mistake i can come up with ... to make a player intentionally experiance an applied restriction in a game mechanic ... especially , when its clear, that the game engine would easily allow the intuitive correct behavior of an object.
My point is .. design-wise : if you want a tower to be not accessable - remove the tower! Rather than just locking up a door ... because closed doors is not what players want to experiance ; its actually the opposit ... they want to experiance open doors .. accessible things .. explorable environment ... but what do we get most times right now ? Fucking Restrictions ! THATS what the current gaminig experiance is, what the current game design converges to...
Huge mistake , if you ask me ...
edit: Now teeth, eventhough i do really appreciate your work and Fips's for the game, you may want to reorder map balancing priorities .. anyhow .. i think you are the best guys we can have for the job .. and you did alot of good things for the game .. thanks for that =)
Remove this spot, yes or no? One team gets here first, they can parkour up here and have an excellent position overlooking the popular fighting spots. It got used each round by some ranged last time I played the map.Thanks for the tip. Maybe you saw 1 archer here. Now there'll be 10 on that spot ...(click to show/hide)
Thanks for the tip. Maybe you saw 1 archer here. Now there'll be 10 on that spot ...EU already figured this one out a while a go. I get the impression that the search for and abuse of these kind of spots is stronger in EU.
Remove this spot, yes or no? One team gets here first, they can parkour up here and have an excellent position overlooking the popular fighting spots. It got used each round by some ranged last time I played the map.
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It's this map. I removed that staircase on the left and the ladder that is in the square ruined area on the right.
Teeth, I have tried to explain my opinion before and I am interested if the community feels the same way.this.
To make it simple:
Overall balance in interesting and diversified maps with advantages for different classes
over
Individual balance inside each and every map, which makes them dull and boring
I appreciate the job you and Fips are doing, but removing every possible aspect of a map that favors one class over another is the wrong way of achieving balance. If anything, the old rotation with more imbalances might have been frustrating for some classes in some maps, but more (and more overall) fun in others.
ಠ_ಠ
tell me, what sense does a map make without spots that are of strategic importance? why not make all maps flat and remove every scene prop? that would be something for a change. it's so fair, that everyone will be happy. wait, did someone say cav-map?
hey, aren't you playing cav too?
this.
ಠ_ಠThis spot is not of strategic importance as one team spawns much closer than the other, which means that the clashing point of both teams is about 30 meters down the road. It gives one team a good vantage point to shoot from though without giving any equivalent to the other team. Usually the round gets decided along that lengthy ruin prop down the road and then if the one team wins they get to clear out this tower. This spot only becomes of strategic importance when the other team won the main fight and they get to clear out this ruin tower if ranged are up there, which proves difficult so rounds get delayed. Two ranged up there makes it difficult for a low volume of any type of classes to clear it out.
tell me, what sense does a map make without spots that are of strategic importance? why not make all maps flat and remove every scene prop? that would be something for a change. it's so fair, that everyone will be happy. wait, did someone say cav-map?
hey, aren't you playing cav too?
this.
Also, the "fun" factor heavily outweight the "unbalanced" factor in most cases. Positions on the maps are like chains of events that can lead to a different result in each battles. If you decrease the number of position events in maps, you send people to kill each other in a narrower tunnel, where fewer scenarios leads to fewer results and increased boredom.
And boredom in a game is never good :P
My problem with this map is the location of tower, the team who starts from the green line spawn is ALWAYS first to climb up the tower & camp it with ranged and win, while the other team coming from red spawn loses most of the time, so i suggest you delete that stupid looking house on a hill with no stairs to it marked with red X and move the tower there and return the stairs marked in blue to both sides of that hill. MAP FIXED.
Really, you want it up there? So you have to first climb the stairs, then climb a tower whose top is a 30 meters above the playing field. Doing that will remove the tower's central position on the map and most likely remove any player interest towards it. Such a height actually makes it hard for ranged to hit targets on ground level. Alternatively I could just check the spawn distances to the staircase and move spawns accordingly, if there is in fact a notable difference.
With that general poll being done on the forum which is exactly the place where 'the people that yell the loudest' are located, also containing an unrepresentative ratio of people that do not actually play and just vote based on nostalgia instead of actual experience, also more NA.
Horseshoe Canyon got re-added to the rotation last patch by me, it has been removed for ages and I dug up some old version from your ATS map pack and it might be flawed. You don't even want me to put the tower exactly the same walk time away from the spawns?
With that general poll being done on the forum which is exactly the place where 'the people that yell the loudest' are located, also containing an unrepresentative ratio of people that do not actually play and just vote based on nostalgia instead of actual experience, also more NA.
Horseshoe Canyon got re-added to the rotation last patch by me, it has been removed for ages and I dug up some old version from your ATS map pack and it might be flawed. You don't even want me to put the tower exactly the same walk time away from the spawns?