cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Kriegson on September 29, 2013, 03:53:02 pm

Title: What are the mechanics of archer accuracy?
Post by: Kriegson on September 29, 2013, 03:53:02 pm
Edit:
Wow, what's with all the hate? I wasn't complaining as to them being inaccurate, just asking for an understanding. Wasn't demanding they be more accurate, and yet everyone seems to have been molested by an archer at some point in their life, based on the downvotes =/

My understanding:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Wholy crap, why are bows so innacurate?
Post by: Adamar on September 29, 2013, 03:58:26 pm
Game of Thrones mod?  :shock:


Yeah you need to stack up on wpf to be accurate here.
Title: Re: Wholy crap, why are bows so innacurate?
Post by: Prpavi on September 29, 2013, 04:12:35 pm
Yes! Buff Ranged!
Title: Re: Wholy crap, why are bows so innacurate?
Post by: Sharpe on September 29, 2013, 04:13:18 pm
Archery here actually takes some sort of skill. Also high wpf, around 150+, does help.
Title: Re: Wholy crap, why are bows so innacurate?
Post by: Kafein on September 29, 2013, 04:16:19 pm
The cRPG balancers thought about letting some classes get instagib hitscan weapons and some others not, then decided it was a bad idea.
Title: Re: Wholy crap, why are bows so innacurate?
Post by: Kriegson on September 29, 2013, 04:17:12 pm
Archery here actually takes some sort of skill. Also high wpf, around 150+, does help.
Respectfully, dealing with completely random shots flying off in whichever direction until you have the WPF to actually have shots land somewhere relative to where you aim them doesn't require skill, it requires patience. The patience of a bloody saint.

Or a deathwish by getting extremely close so your arrows don't have as much of a chance to deviate as they might otherwise, but yeah. Skill would be calculating speed, distance, range, relative movement, prioritizing targets, opportunities and positioning relative to opponents to keep a clear line of sight, support your team well and stay alive.

Most of which I can do. Landing hits with arrows that fly off target after 10 feet and continue further from that point I cannot rectify with skill :P

@Adamar
Yeah! They just released their 1.0 version (and a hotfix) it's not only remade the map and factions, but added quite a few items and events to boot. Uses the functionality of some other mods, and overall is pretty damn nice.
Title: Re: Wholy crap, why are bows so innacurate?
Post by: Ronin on September 29, 2013, 04:24:46 pm
A Clash of Kings (http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,194610.0.html)
Title: Re: Wholy crap, why are bows so innacurate?
Post by: Kriegson on September 29, 2013, 04:27:11 pm
A Clash of Kings (http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,194610.0.html)
That's the one!  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Wholy crap, why are bows so innacurate?
Post by: Sharpe on September 29, 2013, 04:36:09 pm
Respectfully, dealing with completely random shots flying off in whichever direction until you have the WPF to actually have shots land somewhere relative to where you aim them doesn't require skill, it requires patience. The patience of a bloody saint.

Or a deathwish by getting extremely close so your arrows don't have as much of a chance to deviate as they might otherwise, but yeah. Skill would be calculating speed, distance, range, relative movement, prioritizing targets, opportunities and positioning relative to opponents to keep a clear line of sight, support your team well and stay alive.

Most of which I can do. Landing hits with arrows that fly off target after 10 feet and continue further from that point I cannot rectify with skill :P

@Adamar
Yeah! They just released their 1.0 version (and a hotfix) it's not only remade the map and factions, but added quite a few items and events to boot. Uses the functionality of some other mods, and overall is pretty damn nice.

Patience is a skill, and a virtue!

Quote
calculating speed, distance, range, relative movement, prioritizing targets, opportunities and positioning relative to opponents to keep a clear line of sight, support your team well and stay alive.
You pretty much do this every time you fire an arrow, sometimes you do it without thinking about doing it either; it becomes intinct.

Also have you seen the new mod they've been developing for GoT, for Warband? The graphics are amazing.
Title: Re: Wholy crap, why are bows so innacurate?
Post by: Kriegson on September 29, 2013, 04:39:10 pm
Patience is a skill, and a virtue!
 You pretty much do this every time you fire an arrow, sometimes you do it without thinking about doing it either; it becomes intinct.

Also have you seen the new mod they've been developing for GoT, for Warband? The graphics are amazing.
Yeah, I'm fairly good at calculating trajectories. Easy enough when it's actually accurate in native, but in CRPG especially starting a new character the degree of inaccuracy makes me useless in most team fights considering I can easily hit a teammate if the arrow deviates a foot or two in a direction I don't want it to go in -_-

ooh, I have not. Got a link?
Title: Re: Wholy crap, why are bows so innacurate?
Post by: Sharpe on September 29, 2013, 04:45:46 pm
One of the reasons I dont bother with archery till lvl 20 or 21.

And the mod is a work in progress, it might be a little discouraging that the last post was made in April; but their taleworlds thread didnt have any images so here you are

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Wholy crap, why are bows so innacurate?
Post by: Adamar on September 29, 2013, 04:50:27 pm
You wont be an archer here untill you have a large amount of wpf. It's not ideal or fun, but it is something you have to accept if you want to play that class here.
Title: Re: Wholy crap, why are bows so innacurate?
Post by: Algarn on September 29, 2013, 05:15:11 pm
You have to get much more wpf, really, and, if I were you, I would lock this thread before being downvoted.
Title: Re: Wholy crap, why are bows so innacurate?
Post by: Tibe on September 29, 2013, 05:32:43 pm
The "clash of kings" mod. Never really thought highly of that mod. Looked like your average mod, only with the names and map and weapons/armors being different.

From what I can say from my archer experience(which really isnt a lot). 100wpf is quite dooable. True, you are completely outgunned in a bow vs bow fight and it takes some time to getting used to, but its not that bad. That is why I also had 100wpf in 1h. Cuz I just like melee too much, to even leave it for a single generation. You are most useful in medium range or aiming at cavs horses if you intent on long distance shots. I used a +3 longbow myself with quite good ammount of PD. I figured if I hit something, I wanted it to hit hard.
Title: Re: Wholy crap, why are bows so innacurate?
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on September 29, 2013, 06:00:06 pm
We are all Wholy

 :lol:
Title: Re: Wholy crap, why are bows so innacurate?
Post by: HappyPhantom on September 29, 2013, 10:05:30 pm
https://www.facebook.com/gameofthroneswarband
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,278806.0.html

WOWOWOAOAOAOOE-WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Title: Re: Wholy crap, why are bows so innacurate?
Post by: Templar_Steevee on September 30, 2013, 01:08:51 am
You forgot about one thing: PD also gives you penalty to WPF. You will se how much wpf you loose in here http://alpha-lider19.ru/MB/?go=archercalc
For ex I have 183 wpf in archery and 6pd. Effective WPF is 99.
Title: Re: Wholy crap, why are bows so innacurate?
Post by: HappyPhantom on September 30, 2013, 01:31:24 am
When we talk about archery accuracy, are we literally discussing the centre-point of the reticule and how small it is?

Because I briefly tried a STF STR build archer with ~150WPF and ~8PD with light armour, and the reticule was comparible enough to my 170WPF, 6PD AGI build that I'm considering trying out a strength build.

Or are we also discussing the length one can hold the small reticule before it starts expanding; Higher WPF / smaller bow difficultly definitely helps with that IMHO.

On that note: ATH only affects running speed right, it's not going to increase my draw speed. So what increases draw speed (other than the weapon stat), just WPF?
Title: Re: Wholy crap, why are bows so innacurate?
Post by: Blueberry Muffin on September 30, 2013, 01:51:13 am
Yes because Legolas is an accurate representation of how archery should be.
Title: Re: Wholy crap, why are bows so innacurate?
Post by: HappyPhantom on September 30, 2013, 02:59:34 am
Yes because Legolas is an accurate representation of how archery should be.

THREE ARROWS MUTHAF*CKERS!!!

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Wholy crap, why are bows so innacurate?
Post by: Adamar on September 30, 2013, 03:12:26 am
Meh, Lars Andersen is better than him anyway.
Title: Re: Wholy crap, why are bows so innacurate?
Post by: Kriegson on October 01, 2013, 01:39:59 pm
When we talk about archery accuracy, are we literally discussing the centre-point of the reticule and how small it is?

Because I briefly tried a STF STR build archer with ~150WPF and ~8PD with light armour, and the reticule was comparible enough to my 170WPF, 6PD AGI build that I'm considering trying out a strength build.

Or are we also discussing the length one can hold the small reticule before it starts expanding; Higher WPF / smaller bow difficultly definitely helps with that IMHO.

On that note: ATH only affects running speed right, it's not going to increase my draw speed. So what increases draw speed (other than the weapon stat), just WPF?

Yeah pretty sure ATH is only runspeed, WPF and maybe power draw for draw speed. Not sure.
Title: Re: What are the mechanics of archer accuracy?
Post by: Gurnisson on October 01, 2013, 03:02:10 pm
(click to show/hide)

You're probably not investing enough wpf. 150 is the absolute least I use with both bows and crossbows. I like being between 160 and 175 myself. Melee wpf is a lot less useful than ranged wpf.


Yeah pretty sure ATH is only runspeed, WPF and maybe power draw for draw speed. Not sure.

Power draw doesn't affect draw speed, only the wpf does that.
Title: Re: Wholy crap, why are bows so innacurate?
Post by: Tibe on October 01, 2013, 03:07:42 pm
Yes because Legolas is an accurate representation of how archery should be.
Im acctually suprised there was a movie....and even a book. Considering how fucking godlike they made Legolas look, im sorta asking myself why didnt he just win the entire war all by himself.
Title: Re: Wholy crap, why are bows so innacurate?
Post by: Kriegson on October 01, 2013, 03:20:55 pm
Im acctually suprised there was a movie....and even a book. Considering how fucking godlike they made Legolas look, im sorta asking myself why didnt he just win the entire war all by himself.
Because everyone knows elves are the most intelligent, beautiful, skilled, athletic, naturally and magically attuned race  :rolleyes:
Bloody elves.

@   Gurnisson
Ty for the solid info! 170 WPF it is then, I wonder if there will be enough to make my backup shortspear/quarter staff useful :P
Title: Re: What are the mechanics of archer accuracy?
Post by: Gurnisson on October 01, 2013, 03:26:39 pm
It's not mandatory getting that much, but I like doing some long range shot. I usually just sheath my bow and reposition when the enemies close me down since I have 0 ps, 0 if, 12 1h wpf and a pickaxe. The best builds if you want to be decent in melee too is 18/18 and 18/21. I'd suggest 18/21 with 155 wpf or so. You'll get a bit of polearm wpf as well then.


Check this guide (http://forum.melee.org/guides/archery-guide-fo-new-players-by-steevee/) as well. :)
 
Title: Re: What are the mechanics of archer accuracy?
Post by: Wiltzu on October 01, 2013, 03:32:17 pm
Here have my - just for saying "lbs". Learn the metric system.
Title: Re: What are the mechanics of archer accuracy?
Post by: Kriegson on October 01, 2013, 03:58:37 pm
Here have my - just for saying "lbs". Learn the metric system.
I measure everything in stones.
Fight the power!
Title: Re: What are the mechanics of archer accuracy?
Post by: XyNox on October 01, 2013, 04:08:06 pm
Edit:
Wow, what's with all the hate? I wasn't complaining as to them being inaccurate, just asking for an understanding. Wasn't demanding they be more accurate, and yet everyone seems to have been molested by an archer at some point in their life, based on the downvotes =/

First of all, if you mention anything relating ranged in this forum without being excessively negative about ranged in your post, you get hate because 80 % here are lobbying butthurt cunts.

Second, before going archer/pole hybrid and you intent to use 3. person view, consider this:

http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/polearms-blocking-view/msg718781/#msg718781
Title: Re: What are the mechanics of archer accuracy?
Post by: Lt_Anders on October 01, 2013, 04:15:14 pm
Word of Advice:
The PD penalties to WPF got lowered recently. It's not the same as it was, meaning 150-160 is worth a lot more now than it was. That's, not counting armor, equal to about 120-130 wpf effective.

This is confirmed and tested, the old PD forumlas are bad. I believe this is the same for PT, but we couldn't find proof for PT, and only proof for PD.
Title: Re: What are the mechanics of archer accuracy?
Post by: HappyPhantom on October 01, 2013, 10:03:30 pm
It's not mandatory getting that much, but I like doing some long range shot. I usually just sheath my bow and reposition when the enemies close me down since I have 0 ps, 0 if, 12 1h wpf and a pickaxe. The best builds if you want to be decent in melee too is 18/18 and 18/21. I'd suggest 18/21 with 155 wpf or so. You'll get a bit of polearm wpf as well then.

Check this guide (http://forum.melee.org/guides/archery-guide-fo-new-players-by-steevee/) as well. :)

What I find most irritating is how much I glance using 0 slot swords with no 1h WPF or PS. So annoying.


Word of Advice:
The PD penalties to WPF got lowered recently. It's not the same as it was, meaning 150-160 is worth a lot more now than it was. That's, not counting armor, equal to about 120-130 wpf effective.

This is confirmed and tested, the old PD forumlas are bad. I believe this is the same for PT, but we couldn't find proof for PT, and only proof for PD.

Wow, ok, that's good too know. Looking forward to my STR archer build next gen more now.
Title: Re: What are the mechanics of archer accuracy?
Post by: Lt_Anders on October 01, 2013, 10:28:14 pm
I don't remember the exact formula(even though I found, tested and posted it), it's listed in the Beginners guides: Mechanics Mega Thread.