cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Osiris on September 02, 2013, 11:10:15 pm

Title: eu1 tonight
Post by: Osiris on September 02, 2013, 11:10:15 pm
I don't usually comment about ranged but when i do its because they are many!!

There were many lols and cries on teamspeak tonight when the mercs and our team were forced into hiding inside a ruin as fast as we could every round because the enemy team had 5 HAs and many foot archers + shielder throwers. we had to wait for flags to move every round :D My only wish is that panos was there because it would have been epic rage.


I want the other teams opinions :D was it funny for you ? <3
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Strudog on September 02, 2013, 11:38:28 pm
There was at least 10 HA's on the other side and + more ranged
(click to show/hide)


It got so bad that the team had to hide on one set of ruins:

(click to show/hide)

But it was fun and we had a good laugh in Merc TS
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Prpavi on September 02, 2013, 11:46:06 pm
just another EU_1 evening
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Idzo on September 03, 2013, 12:55:44 am
Tnx for reminding me why I don't play that much..
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Rebelyell on September 03, 2013, 01:03:05 am
Tnx for reminding me why I don't play that much..

because you are bored with that game?
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Radament on September 03, 2013, 01:04:05 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Paul on September 03, 2013, 01:39:04 am
Which side won the rounds?
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: karasu on September 03, 2013, 01:52:45 am
Which side won the rounds?

Touché.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Grumbs on September 03, 2013, 03:38:41 am
Which side won the rounds?

Yeah screw how enjoyable the game is, who won the rounds?

/sarcasm

This position also doesn't take into account the relative skill of the 2 sides and the fact 1 has more teamplayers on the same team speak. Head in sand
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Osiris on September 03, 2013, 07:03:01 am
Think the archer side won more, it usually ended up our infantry trying to raise flag while dodging 4 ha, a few draws too
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: DaveUKR on September 03, 2013, 07:56:01 am
Which side won the rounds?

Enemy side won more I think. All the rounds ended waiting for flags. And it wasn't the only map, the previous map was the same. Plus in the first minute of fight like 10 players of our team died without dealing any damage. Also we've witnessed the bug which I've never seen before - flags got broken, got stuck and didn't move anymore   :D
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Molly on September 03, 2013, 08:43:34 am
Yeah screw how enjoyable the game is, who won the rounds?

/sarcasm

This position also doesn't take into account the relative skill of the 2 sides and the fact 1 has more teamplayers on the same team speak. Head in sand
This.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Thovex on September 03, 2013, 09:24:38 am
I tried HA that evening I got headshot and quit.

The horror.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Panos_ on September 03, 2013, 09:31:38 am
I`m having a dilemma, what to hate the most?

Ranged
or
2h


 :(
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Gnjus on September 03, 2013, 09:46:10 am
I honestly admire those who have the will to play melee classes with all these ranged assholes crawling around and shooting at you from all directions. Some might think that the worst has happened: cRPG turning into a shooter but I'll tell you something even worse - all similar games in the future will be even more shooterish because once you've "mastered" melee combat you go easy mode and make a combo, shoot while you wait for the enemy to approach rather then run and get shot. When they come close to you wpf is irrelevant since you can fight in melee without being dedicated. Simple psychology of the masses, line of least resistance. Every next game will be worse and worse and there will never be a proper melee medieval simulation, it will always get infested by ranged vermin.


(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: IR_Kuoin on September 03, 2013, 09:59:02 am
There was at least 10 HA's on the other side and + more ranged
(click to show/hide)


It got so bad that the team had to hide on one set of ruins:

(click to show/hide)

But it was fun and we had a good laugh in Merc TS

Don't you use an arbalest? That is even worse than getting hit by an arrow.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Paul on September 03, 2013, 10:04:51 am
He is only doing it out of "protest" against ranged. One time I think he went HA with the same motive. He didn't do so well if I recall correctly.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Gnjus on September 03, 2013, 10:22:54 am
He is only doing it out of "protest" against ranged. One time I think he went HA with the same motive. He didn't do so well if I recall correctly.

I think I did wonders with my non-loomed level 30 HA, considering the fact I've never played any archer class prior to that, thank you very much mister smart guy.  :wink:

I "do It" because killing Turks & pompous A-r-y-a-n assholes like yourself is about the only thing left in this ranged festival that gives me any pleasure and I can't kill 'em if I can't reach 'em so put 2 and 2 together If you're capable of, I hear you're some kind of a mathematical genius.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Prpavi on September 03, 2013, 10:50:52 am


Exactly the reason I decided not to play melee in future games. Dado and I playing archers in WotV topping easy, same with M:BG I'll start playing archer from the get go. No melee no cry!
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: DaveUKR on September 03, 2013, 10:59:38 am
Sometimes it seems to me that devs became old. They're afraid to make radical changes or they simply don't want to change anything, only some small additions/tweaks. Yet they don't see one thing: without changes mod is dying. I admire changes made by Urist and I truly believe that Urist and Ozin are the only hopes of cRPG now, cmp and chadz are probably too busy to work on crpg, Harald didn't do anything global for a long time, other devs I simply don't see.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Molly on September 03, 2013, 11:04:57 am
Tydeus did good with the stab animation changes.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: DaveUKR on September 03, 2013, 11:09:26 am
Tydeus did good with the stab animation changes.

Agree, though it needs to be tweaked b4 people learn to abuse it. And trust me, it can be abused as hell.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Panos_ on September 03, 2013, 11:27:46 am
Tydeus did good with the stab animation changes.

yeah sure, making the 1h stab equally retarded to lolstab is "good" work..
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Strudog on September 03, 2013, 11:32:53 am
He is only doing it out of "protest" against ranged. One time I think he went HA with the same motive. He didn't do so well if I recall correctly.

Gnjus i think  he was talking about me.

I wouldnt call 20+ kills multiple times in the short while i was HA as not doing well. (Pre buff and Post Buff)

Don't you use an arbalest? That is even worse than getting hit by an arrow.

Im not QQing about Ranged, where is it in my post that i am QQing, look at what i wrote at the bottom, i actuall enjoyed playing it because it was ridiculously funny watching everone hide in 1 ruins. PPlus my arbalest was not 1 shotting the HA's, sometimes it  did but most of the time it didnt
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Mr.K. on September 03, 2013, 12:22:18 pm
Most of us joined with HA alts when we saw a few horse archers stacking on one side on the previous map and thought it would be funny. It's not like there's ten horse archers on the server every night :)

The amount of xbows and bows on the other hand has been on the rise recently. Don't know why.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Molly on September 03, 2013, 12:46:10 pm
Most of us joined with HA alts when we saw a few horse archers stacking on one side on the previous map and thought it would be funny. It's not like there's ten horse archers on the server every night :)

The amount of xbows and bows on the other hand has been on the rise recently. Don't know why.
We are officially shooting back now :D
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: NejStark on September 03, 2013, 12:50:51 pm
I don't usually comment about ranged but when i do its because they are many!!

There were many lols and cries on teamspeak tonight when the mercs and our team were forced into hiding inside a ruin as fast as we could every round because the enemy team had 5 HAs and many foot archers + shielder throwers. we had to wait for flags to move every round :D My only wish is that panos was there because it would have been epic rage.


I want the other teams opinions :D was it funny for you ? <3

I was on of the HA. Honestly I thought it was fun and funny. It doesnt happen that often and having a few rounds where one team has to hide and sally out like heroes for victory, i thought it gave the rounds a bit more personality than usual. I did think 'wow these guys must be angry', until the ground melee team won most of the rounds at the flags at which point I thought 'well played guys, you earned it', and bowed me head in shame for playing a class that cannot really hold ground at all.

Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: IR_Kuoin on September 03, 2013, 12:51:53 pm
Im not QQing about Ranged, where is it in my post that i am QQing, look at what i wrote at the bottom, i actuall enjoyed playing it because it was ridiculously funny watching everone hide in 1 ruins. PPlus my arbalest was not 1 shotting the HA's, sometimes it  did but most of the time it didnt

Never said you were QQing either.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Tomas on September 03, 2013, 12:52:59 pm
Limit ranged to 1 quiver and prevent looting up of spent ammo -> problem solved

Who cares then if there are 20 ranged on the opposite team.  They will quickly run out of ammo and then have to join the melee
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Radament on September 03, 2013, 01:27:57 pm
Limit ranged to 1 quiver and prevent looting up of spent ammo -> problem solved

Who cares then if there are 20 ranged on the opposite team.  They will quickly run out of ammo and then have to join the melee

Problem solved , time for patch and ArmageddonQQ threads.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Thomek on September 03, 2013, 01:44:57 pm
It's like I've always said.. Ranged needs to be constantly nerfed or their pop will slowly increase. The alternative is a mod that gets ranged-infested, then dies.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: darmaster on September 03, 2013, 02:02:39 pm
One time I think he went HA with the same motive. He didn't do so well if I recall correctly.

actually he was as good as chase with HX  :rolleyes: i hated them so much, ended always with 20+ kills

Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: oreshy on September 03, 2013, 02:24:53 pm
wayne? ..nerf melee.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: bavvoz on September 03, 2013, 02:33:34 pm
Now if every ranged was as bad as me hitting the targets this thread wouldnt exist :D
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: woody on September 03, 2013, 02:48:39 pm
I believe ranged has a horrible curve where with no looms and lowish (sub 30) level its impossible, high level fully loomed if several guys together its deadly.

No idea what the answer is. Maybe next wave of standard builds will be archer hunting agi shielders (eg Kingrimm style) then being an archer will be really tough. While loads of 2h heros and poles, especially strength/balanced with no shields it will be effective.

This mod seems to me to go through waves of rock, paper, scissors. Maybe the tools are already there to counter archers (as above), the fact most players dont use them dosnt mean the archers should be nerfed.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Herkkutatti666 on September 03, 2013, 02:50:39 pm
I don't get it why people don't escape the cancer of EU 1 already.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: XyNox on September 03, 2013, 02:58:24 pm
I would want to say "omg this ranged QQ again" but the word "again" doesnt seem to fit here since it implies that there was a period in between sometime when people did in fact not complain about ranged in the first place. This complaining seems to be more of a constant in the cRPG universe.

I cant even feel offended anymore by the stupidity of suggestions such as "too much ranged !!! nerf ranged damage, nerf their speed, nerf this nerf that nerf their ammo count etc." because everyone knows already that the stats are not the problem. Still claiming they are just reveals ones lack of understanding for the game mechanics, hence, why devs maybe wont take your complains seriously. I dont know how often I wrote this down but I will again; the problem is the lack of ability to play as a team ( omg not again ).

For some reason in cRPG the willingness to give a fuck about anyone but yourself and your heroism is astonishingly, mindfuckingly low. In almost every other game I played, there is some form of very basic code consisting of things you intuitively do to assist your allies. I am not a big fan of MOBA games but take things like LoL or Dota for example:

If you feed the enemy, people from your team will probably scream at their computer screens while writing very unkind things in chat to let you know that you are HURTING YOUR TEAM. Or for instance, if you are a healer and a nearby teammate is low on health, wouldnt it be ABSOLUTELY NATURAL that you heal said teammate ? You get the deal.

To transfer this matter to cRPG, since it is known that archers are good at ranged at not so good at melee ( since this is how the whole class shit works right ? pros and cons ) shouldnt it be ABSOLUTELY NATURAL to let your archers shoot the other archers instead of charging in there alone without a shield ?

[Sarcasm]

Nope ... not in cRPG ... what the hell are you thinking ??? In cRPG I still see 2h's chasing HA's through the whole map, which they will obviously never catch, while teammate archers are getting slaughtered by enemy shielders. Why should anyone give a fuck about those my old friendgy archers right ? If enemy archers gank your shieldless pure melee build because your team has no archers left at the end of the round, then there is nothing wrong with you, there is obviously something wrong with the game right ? But hey, afterall melee is the right way to play and ranged is simply wrong and defending your archers would be a disgrace to melee masterrace. If you cant kill them all yourself, you can always go to the forum and say that ranged is bullshit because OP and that there is NO WAY to counter them ( that doesnt include holding W until you are in melee range ).

[/Sarcasm]

I cant understand how anyone even expects to be taken seriously when he proposes that gameplay mechanics should be ballanced in a way that he alone with his specific build is able to counter EVERYTHING in the game. In fact, IMO the lack of certain capabilities for some classes such as ranged weapons, shields, horses etc. is THE key aspect that sets this game on top of so many other games where everyone can do roughly the same, which is shooting a gun in most cases. This system should beg for more teamplay than in most other games and it baffles me how the average member of the cRPG community coult possibly get so egocentric as it is the case now.

Damn ... I did again. I wanted not to do it again but I couldnt help myself. I wrote all this down and I already know that people will go "omfg lawl fuckin bullshit", then hop into the game, hold W into a swarm of archers as soon as the round starts, get shot to pieces and then come here and say "wololo ranged OP nurf lol good joooooke devs I quit cuz you kill teh gaem".

Sad, very sad.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Thovex on September 03, 2013, 03:30:38 pm
It's about how "fun" it is having to hide 5 minutes in a ruin with the entire team till flags are up to be able to get out and maybe swing your sword at 2 people who kite you and then to win the game.

It's not.

And anyway, if it takes a sword/axe/whatever to hit me 4-5 times and an arrow usually 90%s my full lordly heavy armor yeah it's pretty imba.

You can't not charge archers if their the last around or if it's an open map or whatever...
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Mr.K. on September 03, 2013, 03:51:22 pm
arrow usually 90%s my full lordly heavy armor

I'm pretty sure this isn't true, lol. :mrgreen:
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Grumbs on September 03, 2013, 03:56:25 pm
The problem is mainly the way the rounds play out when there is too much ranged. You get scrappy little melee fights and then people pewpewing at each other the remainder of the round. It drags out and for me, I don't feel any sense of an epic round finish when its people shooting at each other. I can't even be bothered watching the end if its ranged vs ranged

When there is a good amount of ranged (not too much but just enough) you have nice decisive melee engagements and then can clean up with a mix of ranged/cav/melee etc to finish off. The general tactics for winning against a ranged heavy team just makes me wonder why i'm even playing. You don't get epic fights, or if you do its after several minutes standing around, hardly playing a game or you get little scrappy fights that then get finished with the victors being shot to death.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Strudog on September 03, 2013, 03:56:43 pm
(click to show/hide)


This is not a QQ thread
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Spurdospera on September 03, 2013, 03:58:39 pm
And anyway, if it takes a sword/axe/whatever to hit me 4-5 times and an arrow usually 90%s my full lordly heavy armor yeah it's pretty imba.
Quite funny that to me it´s quite the opposite. I can take 5-8 arrows before I die when using lordly SGA and plate mittens but I die to 2-4 swings from melee weapon such as greatsword.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Adamar on September 03, 2013, 04:23:13 pm
The problem is mainly the way the rounds play out when there is too much ranged. You get scrappy little melee fights and then people pewpewing at each other the remainder of the round. It drags out and for me, I don't feel any sense of an epic round finish when its people shooting at each other. I can't even be bothered watching the end if its ranged vs ranged

When there is a good amount of ranged (not too much but just enough) you have nice decisive melee engagements and then can clean up with a mix of ranged/cav/melee etc to finish off. The general tactics for winning against a ranged heavy team just makes me wonder why i'm even playing. You don't get epic fights, or if you do its after several minutes standing around, hardly playing a game or you get little scrappy fights that then get finished with the victors being shot to death.

By epic fights you mean, two melee blobs w at each other untill one comletely overwhelms the other? That's not epic, that's random and dumb.

From what I read in the op, the problem is the lack of class ballance. Archers and horse archers would nullify each other nicely if they where matched, unless the melee managed to overwhelm the enemy team fast, depending on the map and on the players. That is how battles should be like.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: peter_afca7 on September 03, 2013, 04:26:35 pm
I'm pretty sure this isn't true, lol. :mrgreen:
I'm pretty sure you never got shot by bagge  8-)
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Jacko on September 03, 2013, 04:31:32 pm
A lot of the older players do work together, seamlessly, regarding of clan. I see this happen all the time. If I see someone I recognize and I'm able to help them I will do so (it benefits me and them). Sometimes I even help randomers, out of the goodness of my heart.

Heh, yesterday was bad luck with the rotation. Open map and a lot of HA's. As soon as we got some cover the teams were even.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Prpavi on September 03, 2013, 04:34:29 pm
I don't get it why people don't escape the cancer of EU 1 already.

Because there is no alternative to people who don't like Siege game mode. The numbers are low as it is.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Molly on September 03, 2013, 04:37:39 pm
Because there is no alternative to people who don't like Siege game mode. The numbers are low as it is.
Not to mention that EU4 isn't an option cuz that's the garbage dump of crpg.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Yorvik on September 03, 2013, 04:58:06 pm
I made a HA stf so I could join the horde and the fact is ranged are not really that strong you guys seem to forget that it took 10+ arrows to kill some of you. As well as the fact ranged massively restrict themselves when it comes to melee. I know that and I main hoplite, ranged are annoying yes but they are not as bad as you 2h Kuyak heroes make them out to be. So don't whine on the forums about it and ask them to get nerfed the day when archers are useless in cRPG is the day when fun will be lost as you'll miss the support and versatility they give to a team.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Swaggart on September 03, 2013, 05:28:49 pm
Quote
I cant understand how anyone even expects to be taken seriously when he proposes that gameplay mechanics should be ballanced in a way that he alone with his specific build is able to counter EVERYTHING in the game.

You mean like how an archer (or crossbowman) can shoot at someone from a distance, and completely shut down a melee's ability to harm the archer by simply blocking a poleaxe with a 0 slot hammer?

Sounds like ranged can counter everything in the game.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: XyNox on September 03, 2013, 06:13:14 pm
You mean like how an archer (or crossbowman) can shoot at someone from a distance, and completely shut down a melee's ability to harm the archer by simply blocking a poleaxe with a 0 slot hammer?

Sounds like ranged can counter everything in the game.

Because when an archer blocks a melee swing he is countering the melee ?? By that logic, the instant a shielder blocks an arrow, he has countered the archer. LOL

This is just another one of those comments that appear to be aimed more towards creating self-pity for a certain class to justify a nerf instead of dealing with the real issue. I mean common, did this, in retrospect really make sense to yourself at all ?
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Osiris on September 03, 2013, 06:18:31 pm
Xynox this wasnt a nerf archer qq thread before you rage posted :-P its more lulz at unfortunate team balance
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: XyNox on September 03, 2013, 06:41:02 pm
Xynox this wasnt a nerf archer qq thread before you rage posted :-P its more lulz at unfortunate team balance

Certainly your OP wasnt meant as such. I was just replying to people who think that ranged is destroying the game, too much ez-mode, etc.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Templar_Steevee on September 03, 2013, 07:22:17 pm
XyNox you are an archer for a long time as i remember and you should get accostumed to rage about ranged. Keep calm and pew pew enemies  :mrgreen:


I wish to be there last night to shoot some HAs down, I just love doing that, but sometimes they are annoying as hell
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Fartface on September 03, 2013, 07:58:01 pm
XyNox you are an archer for a long time as i remember and you should get accostumed to rage about ranged. Keep calm and pew pew enemies  :mrgreen:


I wish to be there last night to shoot some HAs down, I just love doing that, but sometimes they are annoying as hell
I know who you are on eu1 , I either fuck you over with shot bumb shot or you take my horse down  :cry:
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Macropus on September 03, 2013, 11:17:50 pm
Played as a ninja on double xp days with 200+ players online, now that was really hard to do without being shot constantly. Now it's just an easymode comparing with what it used to be.
Melee heroes complain about archers cuz they had 20/0 k/d on this map and now got shot once, so 20/1 is shit lame k/d and ranged ruined the game.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: BASNAK on September 03, 2013, 11:33:04 pm
I retired to archer because if you can't beat them you join them.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Fandrall on September 04, 2013, 01:04:30 am
On that particular map the class balance was totally fucked up. Allmost all ranged and cav was stacked together on one team and the melee inf was on the other.

However both teams used teamplay and played to their strengths which I found really enjoyable. Win or loose the game is much more fun when "tactics" are applied.

I think it ended up ranged/cav team:4  melee team:3... It should have been the other way around though as the flag where bugged one round and didnt end the match when it reached the top.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Swaggart on September 04, 2013, 05:24:12 am
Because when an archer blocks a melee swing he is countering the melee ?? By that logic, the instant a shielder blocks an arrow, he has countered the archer. LOL

Yes.

I don't understand why this is hard for you to understand. A ranged class's primary method of dealing damage is, you guess it, with a ranged weapon. If a shielder can negate that, he has countered the primary damage of the class. How is a shielder not a counter to a ranged class? Now, I would buy your argument about melee protecting ranged if ranged classes were utterly useless and vulnerable against melee, but lets face it: they're not. If archers can't protect themselves, then fuck em all.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Panos_ on September 04, 2013, 07:49:55 am
I would want to say "omg this ranged QQ again" but the word "again" doesnt seem to fit here since it implies that there was a period in between sometime when people did in fact not complain about ranged in the first place. This complaining seems to be more of a constant in the cRPG universe.

I cant even feel offended anymore by the stupidity of suggestions such as "too much ranged !!! nerf ranged damage, nerf their speed, nerf this nerf that nerf their ammo count etc." because everyone knows already that the stats are not the problem. Still claiming they are just reveals ones lack of understanding for the game mechanics, hence, why devs maybe wont take your complains seriously. I dont know how often I wrote this down but I will again; the problem is the lack of ability to play as a team ( omg not again ).

For some reason in cRPG the willingness to give a fuck about anyone but yourself and your heroism is astonishingly, mindfuckingly low. In almost every other game I played, there is some form of very basic code consisting of things you intuitively do to assist your allies. I am not a big fan of MOBA games but take things like LoL or Dota for example:

If you feed the enemy, people from your team will probably scream at their computer screens while writing very unkind things in chat to let you know that you are HURTING YOUR TEAM. Or for instance, if you are a healer and a nearby teammate is low on health, wouldnt it be ABSOLUTELY NATURAL that you heal said teammate ? You get the deal.

To transfer this matter to cRPG, since it is known that archers are good at ranged at not so good at melee ( since this is how the whole class shit works right ? pros and cons ) shouldnt it be ABSOLUTELY NATURAL to let your archers shoot the other archers instead of charging in there alone without a shield ?

[Sarcasm]

Nope ... not in cRPG ... what the hell are you thinking ??? In cRPG I still see 2h's chasing HA's through the whole map, which they will obviously never catch, while teammate archers are getting slaughtered by enemy shielders. Why should anyone give a fuck about those my old friendgy archers right ? If enemy archers gank your shieldless pure melee build because your team has no archers left at the end of the round, then there is nothing wrong with you, there is obviously something wrong with the game right ? But hey, afterall melee is the right way to play and ranged is simply wrong and defending your archers would be a disgrace to melee masterrace. If you cant kill them all yourself, you can always go to the forum and say that ranged is bullshit because OP and that there is NO WAY to counter them ( that doesnt include holding W until you are in melee range ).

[/Sarcasm]

I cant understand how anyone even expects to be taken seriously when he proposes that gameplay mechanics should be ballanced in a way that he alone with his specific build is able to counter EVERYTHING in the game. In fact, IMO the lack of certain capabilities for some classes such as ranged weapons, shields, horses etc. is THE key aspect that sets this game on top of so many other games where everyone can do roughly the same, which is shooting a gun in most cases. This system should beg for more teamplay than in most other games and it baffles me how the average member of the cRPG community coult possibly get so egocentric as it is the case now.

Damn ... I did again. I wanted not to do it again but I couldnt help myself. I wrote all this down and I already know that people will go "omfg lawl fuckin bullshit", then hop into the game, hold W into a swarm of archers as soon as the round starts, get shot to pieces and then come here and say "wololo ranged OP nurf lol good joooooke devs I quit cuz you kill teh gaem".

Sad, very sad.

(click to show/hide)

Everytime I see you post, I`m gonna reply with this

shut your whore mouth ranged my old friend

And since I`m quoting a banned person, I can`t be banned, because it`s not my words.

Enjoy.

shut your whore mouth ranged my old friend
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Gnjus on September 04, 2013, 09:21:54 am
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: XyNox on September 04, 2013, 09:23:58 am
Everytime I see you post, I`m gonna reply with this

And since I`m quoting a banned person, I can`t be banned, because it`s not my words.

Enjoy.

But Panos I ... after all we have been through together ... I thought you love me  :cry:
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: IR_Kuoin on September 04, 2013, 09:39:40 am
Panos found a way to beat the system, now he can insult ranged as much as he like :o
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Paul on September 04, 2013, 10:01:41 am
Well, at least until cmp does another post history check.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Blueberry Muffin on September 04, 2013, 07:30:46 pm
I honestly admire those who have the will to play melee classes with all these ranged assholes crawling around and shooting at you from all directions. Some might think that the worst has happened: cRPG turning into a shooter but I'll tell you something even worse - all similar games in the future will be even more shooterish because once you've "mastered" melee combat you go easy mode and make a combo, shoot while you wait for the enemy to approach rather then run and get shot. When they come close to you wpf is irrelevant since you can fight in melee without being dedicated. Simple psychology of the masses, line of least resistance. Every next game will be worse and worse and there will never be a proper melee medieval simulation, it will always get infested by ranged vermin.


(click to show/hide)

You jarring mother fucker, reading that text was really depressing. I actually felt really upset for no reason, except the bleak future that you just outlined.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Gnjus on September 04, 2013, 08:03:56 pm
I actually felt really upset for no reason

You actually have some very good reasons to be upset about the future of similar games as you're probably one of those optimists who think Warband & cRPG are just the beginning of something great that is yet to come. I thought that way too for quite a long time but I've "seen the light" and its not that bright, I tell you. Mark my words.

P.S. I wasn't sure what "jarring" means so I googled it, the first thing that popped up on pictures is this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunnar_Jarring . It says he was a Turkologist.  :wink:
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Prpavi on September 04, 2013, 08:37:27 pm
You actually have some very good reasons to be upset about the future of similar games as you're probably one of those optimists who think Warband & cRPG are just the beginning of something great that is yet to come. I thought that way too for quite a long time but I've "seen the light" and its not that bright, I tell you. Mark my words.

P.S. I wasn't sure what "jarring" means so I googled it, the first thing that popped up on pictures is this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunnar_Jarring . It says he was a Turkologist.  :wink:

I think they dealt with "balance" best in Americas Army. On the start of every map you had weapon slots to choose from and you never had a team of snipers or saws because it just wasn't possible so maybe there is still hope Gnjus  :wink:
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Molly on September 05, 2013, 01:18:46 pm
NURF ARCHERZ UBER DAMAGE!

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Araxiel on September 05, 2013, 08:49:38 pm
Get out of here XyNox.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Molly on September 05, 2013, 08:50:25 pm
silly turk... like kratos... both silly...
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: XyNox on September 06, 2013, 01:38:10 am
Get out of here XyNox.

NO U
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on September 06, 2013, 04:36:58 am
Everytime I see you post, I`m gonna reply with this

And since I`m quoting a banned person, I can`t be banned, because it`s not my words.

Enjoy.
Anyone wanna take bets on how long Panos will last on this key?
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: the real god emperor on September 06, 2013, 11:09:51 am
silly turk... like kratos... both silly...

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Horst_Kurmoottaja on September 06, 2013, 10:13:40 pm


[Sarcasm]

Nope ... not in cRPG ... what the hell are you thinking ??? In cRPG I still see 2h's chasing HA's through the whole map, which they will obviously never catch, while teammate archers are getting slaughtered by enemy shielders. Why should anyone give a fuck about those my old friendgy archers right ? If enemy archers gank your shieldless pure melee build because your team has no archers left at the end of the round, then there is nothing wrong with you, there is obviously something wrong with the game right ? But hey, afterall melee is the right way to play and ranged is simply wrong and defending your archers would be a disgrace to melee masterrace. If you cant kill them all yourself, you can always go to the forum and say that ranged is bullshit because OP and that there is NO WAY to counter them ( that doesnt include holding W until you are in melee range ).

[/Sarcasm]



Have to say that defending own team ranged is very often really thankless and dangerous task. Just few days ago got teamhitted every freaking round by own ranged and GTXted after got teamkilled 2 rounds in a row by ranged cocky bastards!
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: XyNox on September 06, 2013, 10:35:18 pm
Have to say that defending own team ranged is very often really thankless and dangerous task. Just few days ago got teamhitted every freaking round by own ranged and GTXted after got teamkilled 2 rounds in a row by ranged cocky bastards!

Yeah that is quite frustrating. On another note however, very few people seem to notice that facehugging and circling around your enemy isnt exactly the best thing to do to avoid getting teamhit. Just like shielders, on the very rare occasions they decide to shield archers ( and I very much appreciate this ), they try to move WITH the archer, even when he is just doing a quick sidestep to shoot.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Osiris on September 06, 2013, 10:57:03 pm
meh who wants to waste fun playing time standing near archers :D
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Mr.K. on September 07, 2013, 10:14:02 am
meh who wants to waste fun playing time standing near archers :D

It can be fun trying to deal with heroes coming one by one at you trying to kill that ranged guy next to you. You are also guaranteed to have at least one suicidal cavalryman attack you at some point. In a long run it's boring, but if even a few people would do it for even a few rounds the games would end up being much more tactical and less mindless charging. The point system could be changed to give "assists" to guys defending ranged.

However archers themselves should seek for protection as well and learn to use it better. For some reason they don't want to stay still. If I stand next to you with a damn spear, just stand in one spot (unless being shot at) and pewpew. If the archer moves, not only does the spearman need to keep an eye on the enemy cav, but also the friendly archer that constantly keeps running away. 3m space is enough for a good cav to take that archer out without any risk of getting stopped by the spear. Please stay as close as possible, thank you.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Molly on September 07, 2013, 10:20:58 am
It can be fun trying to deal with heroes coming one by one at you trying to kill that ranged guy next to you. You are also guaranteed to have at least one suicidal cavalryman attack you at some point. In a long run it's boring, but if even a few people would do it for even a few rounds the games would end up being much more tactical and less mindless charging. The point system could be changed to give "assists" to guys defending ranged.

However archers themselves should seek for protection as well and learn to use it better. For some reason they don't want to stay still. If I stand next to you with a damn spear, just stand in one spot (unless being shot at) and pewpew. If the archer moves, not only does the spearman need to keep an eye on the enemy cav, but also the friendly archer that constantly keeps running away. 3m space is enough for a good cav to take that archer out without any risk of getting stopped by the spear. Please stay as close as possible, thank you.
No, no. You can't say something bad about archers. According to Xynox only melee is stupid and archers are the smart people here.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: XyNox on September 07, 2013, 10:52:41 am
No, no. You can't say something bad about archers. According to Xynox only melee is stupid and archers are the smart people here.

Stop being butthurt will ya. There are melees who do a fine job at defending ranged ( Sorokopud comes to mind ). All I say is that most melees dont give a fuck and still QQ in the end because their team cant defend against ranged.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Osiris on September 07, 2013, 10:54:14 am
Stop being butthurt will ya. There are melees who do a fine job at defending ranged ( Sorokopud comes to mind ). All I say is that most melees dont give a fuck and still QQ in the end because their team cant defend against ranged.

that's because most (not all) ranged don't aim at other ranged. they aim for lightly armored infantry or the easiest target they can see. I only defend archers/xbows if i know they are worth it or they are my clan mates :P (or if we are last ones left)
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Molly on September 07, 2013, 12:41:44 pm
I have to agree with Osiris. Ranged calls melee kill hungry although most ranged people have an awful priority list during the fight.

Ignore the small troop of 5 2h heroes flanking the own teams massive blob but keep shooting into the blob instead. What could 5 2h heroes possibly achieve with backstabbing the own team which is busy keeping the enemies in check, right?

Ignore the 3 longbow archers on the hill, raining down arrows on the own team. Better shoot at a single guy running away.

Ignore the cav stomping the own team. Better try to kill the peasant hiding in some corner at the other side of the map.

Ranged iz smard play0rz!
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Paul on September 07, 2013, 01:10:05 pm
Well, archers usually have the lowest awareness because they rarely have the opportunity to use the look around function. As melee I can do it while moving/holding, as xbow while reloading. So if you want an archer to switch targets, simply tell him to. There is a good chance he isn't aware. But of course you can insult them on the forums instead.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Prpavi on September 07, 2013, 01:11:23 pm
Have to agree with the comments above. I've been using Bamboo for quite a while now and with my agi build and light/medium gear I've learned to fight outside tge melee blob watching after rangers and primarily hunting cav. The fact is there are more friendly ranged that don't give a crap about you covering them than there is melee guys trying to help. You get no cover what so ever and battle awareness is something that is a complete mystery for most of them. So tell me how am I supposed to play andwhy should I sacrifice myself for a man that doesn't give a crap about me and is not doing his job (shooting opposition ranged, cav istead of spamming melee). I don't mind dying for a man that knows what he is doing but they are few and far between, this is a pub and all your work together is just an utopia and a great argument you pull when ever people complain about ranged. Organisation in chat is also quite impossible. Used to be doable, not any more.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Molly on September 07, 2013, 01:33:06 pm
Well, archers usually have the lowest awareness because they rarely have the opportunity to use the look around function. As melee I can do it while moving/holding, as xbow while reloading. So if you want an archer to switch targets, simply tell him to. There is a good chance he isn't aware. But of course you can insult them on the forums instead.
Yea, using team chat or voice commands while trying to stay alive will work out really good.

I gonna type "Hey, you, archer dude... might wanna shoot those guys closing in on your left maybe?" Until I finished typing that, half my team will be ripped to piece.

I saw you actually play battle a few times lately. Would have expected that you actually know what you're talking about.

My normal approach when I see an archer not noticing the melee dudes behind him, is kicking him. Worked like a charm before 0 damage was reportable. Now I've been reported 5 times for saving their ass and simply stopped giving a shit.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Corsair831 on September 07, 2013, 01:34:14 pm
love how strudog is complaining about there being a ridiculous amount of ranged and yet still has 9 - 1

YEAH YEAH RANGED IS SO OP LOL

seriously guys, archers in cRPG are SO insanely weak, if you charge at them like a moron with no thought to situation or tactics sure, they may kill you, but if you think for uuh 3 seconds, they're just so easy to kill (you can dodge their arrows by running around in circles, i mean come on .. )
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Gurnisson on September 07, 2013, 01:42:29 pm
love how strudog is complaining about there being a ridiculous amount of ranged and yet still has 9 - 1

YEAH YEAH RANGED IS SO OP LOL

seriously guys, archers in cRPG are SO insanely weak, if you charge at them like a moron with no thought to situation or tactics sure, they may kill you, but if you think for uuh 3 seconds, they're just so easy to kill (you can dodge their arrows by running around in circles, i mean come on .. )

They're not weak at all. However, they're not op either (because of the change to arrow weight).
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Osiris on September 07, 2013, 01:50:43 pm
I don't think people are saying that archers are op alone. The problem only occurs when there is a high % of archers and they all get balanced to the same team, it makes them more noticeable :D
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Corsair831 on September 08, 2013, 02:31:00 pm
I don't think people are saying that archers are op alone. The problem only occurs when there is a high % of archers and they all get balanced to the same team, it makes them more noticeable :D

and yet a 2h with loomed tin can is dangerous in all situations, not just when there's 5 of them :P
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Osiris on September 08, 2013, 02:43:03 pm
ahh the old there is no problems with balancing system or when all ranged are on one team cos 2h argument. touche
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Gurnisson on September 08, 2013, 02:48:03 pm
and yet a 2h with loomed tin can is dangerous in all situations, not just when there's 5 of them :P

I don't think people are saying that archers are op alone. The problem only occurs when there is a high % of archers and they all get balanced to the same team, it makes them more noticeable :D

Dangerous =\= op. An archer is always dangerous as well.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Grumbs on September 08, 2013, 03:55:52 pm
Kind of pointless to compare ranged to 2 handers, but w/e

Ranged have no conditions to overcome to deal damage, they can do it from anywhere
You can get as many ranged as you like attacking a single target, melee can only have as many as can fit around a guy without dealing team damage and they all have to manoeuvre into position
Melee damage is easily mitigated with any melee weapon
2 handers effectiveness is 0 when they hold a shield, they become a purely defensive role until they get into range. The weight from the shield detracts from their primary role, unlike a ranged guy taking a melee weapon to block
Some xbows shoot through shields like they are paper and have no requirements, don't even need WPF
Some ranged get all the benefits of dealing damage from range without much drawback in melee. Xbows especially. A good 2 hander that starts playing ranged will rape in either situation. Most dedicated ranged aren't as experienced in melee, the ones that are have the best of both worlds.

The main thing going for melee is that they naturally employ teamwork to take out groups of players because they are right next to each other and main targets have to be in range. They can charge into a group and put ranged on the back foot so they have few team mates around. I'm not saying melee is weak, I think melee has probably at least 70% of the impact in determining who wins a round. I just think ranged is cheap and has poor game mechanics that make me wonder why they are allowed to do damage at all sometimes.

If some people had their own way the game would consist of 2 blobs pointing shields at each other while ranged pewpew for 5 mins. Gets nearly like that as it is. Its boring gameplay
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Corsair831 on September 08, 2013, 04:36:11 pm
i don't think there's any point discussing this any more
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Paul on September 08, 2013, 05:44:49 pm
Ok, I get it. Ranged should not be able to damage melee. Only other ranged. I can't agree though. I'm not a big fan of the Apartheid.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on September 08, 2013, 05:50:04 pm
I would want to say "omg this ranged QQ again" but the word "again" doesnt seem to fit here since it implies that there was a period in between sometime when people did in fact not complain about ranged in the first place. This complaining seems to be more of a constant in the cRPG universe.

I cant even feel offended anymore by the stupidity of suggestions such as "too much ranged !!! nerf ranged damage, nerf their speed, nerf this nerf that nerf their ammo count etc." because everyone knows already that the stats are not the problem. Still claiming they are just reveals ones lack of understanding for the game mechanics, hence, why devs maybe wont take your complains seriously. I dont know how often I wrote this down but I will again; the problem is the lack of ability to play as a team ( omg not again ).
Ranged is the only thing in the game that does not have to choose between playing as a team and getting a million bolts and arrows shot at them.
For some reason in cRPG the willingness to give a fuck about anyone but yourself and your heroism is astonishingly, mindfuckingly low. In almost every other game I played, there is some form of very basic code consisting of things you intuitively do to assist your allies. I am not a big fan of MOBA games but take things like LoL or Dota for example:

If you feed the enemy, people from your team will probably scream at their computer screens while writing very unkind things in chat to let you know that you are HURTING YOUR TEAM. Or for instance, if you are a healer and a nearby teammate is low on health, wouldnt it be ABSOLUTELY NATURAL that you heal said teammate ? You get the deal.

To transfer this matter to cRPG, since it is known that archers are good at ranged at not so good at melee ( since this is how the whole class shit works right ? pros and cons ) shouldnt it be ABSOLUTELY NATURAL to let your archers shoot the other archers instead of charging in there alone without a shield ?
You yourself ALWAYS fucking say that you target 2h heroes over anything else because they're scum, every single archer who says we need to protect our ranged so they'll shoot their ranged if asked separately will always admit he targets infantry over anything else.
[Sarcasm]

Nope ... not in cRPG ... what the hell are you thinking ??? In cRPG I still see 2h's chasing HA's through the whole map, which they will obviously never catch, while teammate archers are getting slaughtered by enemy shielders. Why should anyone give a fuck about those my old friendgy archers right ? If enemy archers gank your shieldless pure melee build because your team has no archers left at the end of the round, then there is nothing wrong with you, there is obviously something wrong with the game right ? But hey, afterall melee is the right way to play and ranged is simply wrong and defending your archers would be a disgrace to melee masterrace. If you cant kill them all yourself, you can always go to the forum and say that ranged is bullshit because OP and that there is NO WAY to counter them ( that doesnt include holding W until you are in melee range ).
The one thing capable of countering ranged is more ranged (this goes more for horseranged than footranged after the weight nerfs though), tell me how that is not retarded...
[/Sarcasm]

I cant understand how anyone even expects to be taken seriously when he proposes that gameplay mechanics should be ballanced in a way that he alone with his specific build is able to counter EVERYTHING in the game. In fact, IMO the lack of certain capabilities for some classes such as ranged weapons, shields, horses etc. is THE key aspect that sets this game on top of so many other games where everyone can do roughly the same, which is shooting a gun in most cases. This system should beg for more teamplay than in most other games and it baffles me how the average member of the cRPG community coult possibly get so egocentric as it is the case now.
Counter EVERYTHING in the game, you mean like archers? (and before you say shielder, 2 archers can counter ten shielders.
Damn ... I did again. I wanted not to do it again but I couldnt help myself. I wrote all this down and I already know that people will go "omfg lawl fuckin bullshit", then hop into the game, hold W into a swarm of archers a place that isn't behind cover as soon as the round starts, get shot to pieces and then come here and say "wololo ranged OP nurf lol good joooooke devs I quit cuz you kill teh gaem".

Sad, very sad.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: XyNox on September 08, 2013, 06:07:59 pm


I wont fall for your tricks Zlisch ! Thread is dead and not even your goat wizzardry can prevent that from happening, HAHA !
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Fartface on September 08, 2013, 06:09:54 pm
Ranged is fine.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Grumbs on September 08, 2013, 06:14:06 pm
Ok, I get it. Ranged should not be able to damage melee. Only other ranged. I can't agree though. I'm not a big fan of the Apartheid.

Main thing I argue for is increasing the difficulty of dealing damage from range. The damage should be a function of the difficulty and the risk the player needs to put themselves in to deal the damage
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Arrowblood on September 08, 2013, 06:24:42 pm
 Formations, the only one we have is the shieldwall. Same tactics for 4 years. Same in Strat. If the clans have enough members they can train formations.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Paul on September 08, 2013, 07:00:01 pm
Archers have the highest risk of dying a sudden death. At least from my experience.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Grumbs on September 08, 2013, 07:23:06 pm
The risk of dying needs to tie into the ease at which you deal damage. That means its no good putting in something with say 1/5 of the HP of everyone else if that class can simply point & click on enemies for damage, even if that damage is 1HP per shot. It all depends on the overall package. Does the ease at which archers shoot enemies that can't shoot back get balanced by the risk they put themselves in? I would say no because they don't need to get in the thick of the combat, they can find high or safe places, they get loads of ammo so can shoot and miss over and over, they can block melee attacks as a last resort, and if they have some PS they can use 1 handers which are actually quite strong in melee vs melee.

I would make projectiles take longer to hit a target and make it take longer to line up a shot. For Melee:Battlegrounds I hope they simply improve the complexity of the shooting mechanics so crosshairs are done away with entirely.

Xbows are the worst though, these things are like they are almost tacked onto M&B as an afterthought
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Mr.K. on September 08, 2013, 08:21:34 pm
Longbows and Rus Bows and Yumis are not point and click weapons though. All bows below them are now thanks to recent buff* that nobody wanted nor expected. And you can't really put enough wpf into 1H and still be effective as an archer. In some situations you can fight back, but most of the time you're gonna run, even with 6PS.

Archery was fine before the buff. It was clearly UP, but the best players still could deal a lot of damage. Right now horse archery is pretty damn easy and effective even for players like myself that aren't really good at any kind of ranged. You don't do huge amount of damage per arrow, but you got up to 72 arrows with you. Get on a heavy horse not a single archer will even bother shooting at you and if they do you can avoid them. It's not OP, but it's quite a strong class now and doesn't really require any skill unlike foot archery.

Xbows are another thing though. In right hands they seem to be extremely easy and effective with no drawbacks. Haven't played much with them myself though to really claim they are OP.

*=Projectile speed got increased for the lower tier bows which makes them more effective at long ranges and a lot easier to shoot as the arrows drops was reduced
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Idzo on September 08, 2013, 08:50:54 pm
Remove crosshairs.

Why I never came to that idea?

Grumbs I fucking love you.


When i come home home in few days "Remove Crosshairs" campain is starting!



Long live Grumbs!
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 08, 2013, 08:55:25 pm
I feel like I'm playing a different game then everyone else, as more then ever the majority of my deaths are from melee.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Grumbs on September 08, 2013, 09:13:38 pm
I feel like I'm playing a different game then everyone else, as more then ever the majority of my deaths are from melee.

It might be true, but I argue that you could add sniper rifles into the game and give them 1 HP damage and the result would be the same. Melee might still kill you more, but the sniper does 1 HP more damage than he should.

Xbows pointing and clicking on guys miles away is just ridiculous, and then you see them doing 1 hit kills, wearing good armour and having good melee abilities.

About taking out xhairs idzo, doubt that would make any different since people will put something in the middle of their monitors instead. What would work is adding some extra depth to how you shoot, rather than point & click with some projectile travel time. Thats not really within the scope of cRPG though
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Idzo on September 08, 2013, 10:33:08 pm

About taking out xhairs idzo, doubt that would make any different since people will put something in the middle of their monitors instead.

C'mon archers are not that smart.

Just look at Sillicium...
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on September 09, 2013, 10:14:54 am
It might be true, but I argue that you could add sniper rifles into the game and give them 1 HP damage and the result would be the same. Melee might still kill you more, but the sniper does 1 HP more damage than he should.

Xbows pointing and clicking on guys miles away is just ridiculous, and then you see them doing 1 hit kills, wearing good armour and having good melee abilities.

About taking out xhairs idzo, doubt that would make any different since people will put something in the middle of their monitors instead. What would work is adding some extra depth to how you shoot, rather than point & click with some projectile travel time. Thats not really within the scope of cRPG though

You sir, are a terrible QQer.
I dont see melee having to reload every strike for 5 seconds, being immobilized during this time and being limited to 12 or 13 strikes per round QQ.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: djavo on September 09, 2013, 11:06:28 am
Ok I was just reading this on toilet. And it come to my mind....  A great idea....
And then I forgot it...
Ok I got it. How to deal with archers, very easy. Prevent placing arrow and aiming while moving. Give huge wpf penalty for it, otherwise make it unusable. To be able to shoot you would need to be in same spot atleast 3 sec. That would kill kiting archers.
You figure how to kill snipers.

But as I went for toilet second time it came to my mind...
If you nerf archers, cav will be too stronk, melee will me stronker, what.... So it's best that you don't do anything and let this mod die in rain of arrows...
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Prpavi on September 09, 2013, 11:22:35 am
So it's best that you don't do anything and let this mod die in rain of arrows...

Sig!
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Grumbs on September 09, 2013, 11:49:41 am
You sir, are a terrible QQer.
I dont see melee having to reload every strike for 5 seconds, being immobilized during this time and being limited to 12 or 13 strikes per round QQ.

What, hiding behind a tree for a few secs is such a hardship for being able to deal ranged damage? Melee are standing around doing jack shit a lot of the time too, might as well have some ranged capability while in those situations. Thats the sort of mentality that leads to this becoming a ranged game. And when it comes to melee you can still hold your own in that situation too.

Xbows should at least need some requirements for their builds. Just look at guys like DaveUKR, 1 or 2 hit ranged kills, sarranid guard armour, good helmet and decent melee weapon. You should really have to sacrifice one thing for another. Melee sacrifices all ranged capability, and if they take a shield they take that instead of heavier armour or they lose their footwork speed. Xbows just drop the xbow when they are forced into melee range and become a regular melee guy until they go back for it. Dropping a shield will get you killed without ranged capability towards the end of a round
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on September 09, 2013, 12:08:37 pm
What, hiding behind a tree for a few secs is such a hardship for being able to deal ranged damage? Melee are standing around doing jack shit a lot of the time too, might as well have some ranged capability while in those situations. Thats the sort of mentality that leads to this becoming a ranged game. And when it comes to melee you can still hold your own in that situation too.

Xbows should at least need some requirements for their builds. Just look at guys like DaveUKR, 1 or 2 hit ranged kills, sarranid guard armour, good helmet and decent melee weapon. You should really have to sacrifice one thing for another. Melee sacrifices all ranged capability, and if they take a shield they take that instead of heavier armour or they lose their footwork speed. Xbows just drop the xbow when they are forced into melee range and become a regular melee guy until they go back for it. Dropping a shield will get you killed without ranged capability towards the end of a round

xbow requirements are kinda low, I agree. You only need weapon master for the wpf in order to aim properly. What else limits the xbower... maybe that 3 slots are occupied with xbow + bolts? So most 2h and polearms are out.
You're talking of melee sacrificing all ranged capabilities - thats your choice mate. I got a polearmer with throwing - works well and you can stun archers and xbowers and also deal damage to HA/HX. Just a couple of points and suddenly you're not a pure melee who needs to QQ all the time.

Edit: oh and please dont use highlevel players for all kinds of QQ, they dont represent the "average" players.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: the real god emperor on September 09, 2013, 12:35:55 pm
I am sure everyone is sick of "Nurf archers arghbhsewarhdshdgsaf!" kind of bs , because they re nerfed to death already. The problem with archers is they re always in the same team , one team with tons of ranged , other team with all 2hers and skinny ass cavs . Well I played as a hoplite recently and I was pretty tanky, but getting interrupted with peasant arrows is not fun, i have to say.

All the qqing about ranged has a point ; people are not whining about simple ranged pew pew , but they re "kiting" , even with 10kg big ass arrows, they can run faster than every decent melee guy , when they re not being chased anymore, they start shooting again.

The battle's general plan has to be like this imo ;

Ranged camps somewhere, melee protects them , cav tries to gank enemy melee so they can reach enemy ranged.

The battle's general plan at the moment ;

Ranged camps somewhere -mostly roofs- if the map is plain , they just go to the corner. melee attacks enemy melee immediately and get tons of shots , cavs move to the enemy spawn asap and kill late spawners and afkers ,  then get tons of shots.So the team with most ranged wins.

And everyone says "Get a shield lol" , you see, the problem is not with the ranged, its with the kill hungry melee scumbags , they always chase archers, avoiding the team and all the enemies, then they die and start assaulting archers in forums , what we have to do is sticking up and remembering this is a team game, you re not solo.


Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: XyNox on September 09, 2013, 01:02:55 pm
I just come from eu1. I played on my pole alt and was doing nothing else but sticking close to my archers ( well our team had only 1 or 2 most of the time ). Saved my archer buddy from a few certain deaths who in turn could help me then when enemies tried to gank me. Seems just the mere presence of one big polearm inside a bunch of archers is enough to scare cav backstabbers away. Archer thanked me, we won many rounds, made me feel warm inside, I had fun. Other melees should try it sometimes.

Oh and with 56 body armor I dont think any arrow that hit me took more than 15 % of my hp so its a relatively safe job too.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on September 09, 2013, 01:15:07 pm
I just come from eu1. I played on my pole alt and was doing nothing else but sticking close to my archers ( well our team had only 1 or 2 most of the time ). Saved my archer buddy from a few certain deaths who in turn could help me then when enemies tried to gank me. Seems just the mere presence of one big polearm inside a bunch of archers is enough to scare cav backstabbers away. Archer thanked me, we won many rounds, made me feel warm inside, I had fun. Other melees should try it sometimes.

Oh and with 56 body armor I dont think any arrow that hit me took more than 15 % of my hp so its a relatively safe job too.

I do that too sometimes, playing ranged guard with polearmer. Works magic many times, fuckin great.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Prpavi on September 09, 2013, 01:15:33 pm

Oh and with 56 body armor I dont think any arrow that hit me took more than 15 % of my hp so its a relatively safe job too.

lol
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Corsair831 on September 09, 2013, 01:25:50 pm
i think most of you guys don't get it

rock, paper, scissors


with my build ( 15/24, light armour pure 1h shield), I have literally no problem with ranged; they die easy as anything. Let's call this paper and call ranged rock

now you guys, with all your heavy armour and one shot kill polearms / 2h weapons, are running around like idiots crying

"WAAAAH MY SCISSORS DONT WIN VS ROCK :( :( :( :("

either adapt your build to counter ranged, or stop crying about the one weakness your one-shot kill 18 ironflesh 200 bodyarmour long weapon reach builds actually have



I have a tincan hero as well, ivani5 full plate high ironflesh etc etc; when i play that character, I sometimes look like a porcupine because of the amount of archers that have shot me; an unshielded tincan, and I have survived. I think it's extremely obnoxious that you all still complain about bloody archery.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: XyNox on September 09, 2013, 01:28:49 pm
lol

There is a difference between getting shot in the face from pointblank range when you lolcharge and getting shot at "archer" distance. Also those things that take a big chunks out of your hp are bolts and I was not talking about those. On top of that, almost no archer will target you in such a situation as you dont pose a direct threat that needs to be eliminated as soon as possible.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Gnjus on September 09, 2013, 01:41:16 pm
I just come from eu1. I played on my pole alt and was doing nothing else but sticking close to my archers ( well our team had only 1 or 2 most of the time ). Saved my archer buddy from a few certain deaths who in turn could help me then when enemies tried to gank me. Seems just the mere presence of one big polearm inside a bunch of archers is enough to scare cav backstabbers away. Archer thanked me, we won many rounds, made me feel warm inside, I had fun. Other melees should try it sometimes.

Oh and with 56 body armor I dont think any arrow that hit me took more than 15 % of my hp so its a relatively safe job too.


Let me guess what happened next: the marmot wrapped up the chocolate ?
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: the real god emperor on September 09, 2013, 01:41:22 pm
Reason of all the rage , drawn with elven painting skills

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Grumbs on September 09, 2013, 02:11:38 pm
i think most of you guys don't get it

rock, paper, scissors


with my build ( 15/24, light armour pure 1h shield), I have literally no problem with ranged; they die easy as anything. Let's call this paper and call ranged rock

now you guys, with all your heavy armour and one shot kill polearms / 2h weapons, are running around like idiots crying

"WAAAAH MY SCISSORS DONT WIN VS ROCK :( :( :( :("

either adapt your build to counter ranged, or stop crying about the one weakness your one-shot kill 18 ironflesh 200 bodyarmour long weapon reach builds actually have



I have a tincan hero as well, ivani5 full plate high ironflesh etc etc; when i play that character, I sometimes look like a porcupine because of the amount of archers that have shot me; an unshielded tincan, and I have survived. I think it's extremely obnoxious that you all still complain about bloody archery.

How is it rock/paper/scissors with xbowers that don't have any requirements and drop the xbow? 1 handed weapons are not UP in the least.

It shouldn't be rock paper scissors anyway, this is not TF2. The way you play and how well you play should be whats important. You have strengths and weaknesses, but you play to your strengths and try to minimise your weaknesses. If you're jack of all trades you should sacrifice something for that. If it were rock paper scissors ranged wouldn't be allowed to block melee at all

The counters to ranged are either too passive or relly on simply countering with ranged, it makes the game boring to play sometimes
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Christo on September 09, 2013, 02:12:46 pm
It shouldn't be rock paper scissors anyway, this is not TF2.

Every class can kill every other in TF2.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: XyNox on September 09, 2013, 02:31:45 pm
How is it rock/paper/scissors with xbowers that don't have any requirements and drop the xbow? 1 handed weapons are not UP in the least.

It shouldn't be rock paper scissors anyway, this is not TF2. The way you play and how well you play should be whats important. You have strengths and weaknesses, but you play to your strengths and try to minimise your weaknesses. If you're jack of all trades you should sacrifice something for that. If it were rock paper scissors ranged wouldn't be allowed to block melee at all

The counters to ranged are either too passive or relly on simply countering with ranged, it makes the game boring to play sometimes

But Grumbs, how is a 2h/pole supposed to counter ranged when said 2h/pole 1) does not want use ranged himself cause "more ranged to counter ranged" is bad, 2) does not want to teamplay with the own ranged because its "boring/unthankful/unfun", 3) does not want to take cover/hide because "ranged should not dictate how I play" ? It doesnt seem like there is any way to change the game to your expectations without deleting every form of ranged completely. I mean should he use the force to deflect arrows or what ?
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: karasu on September 09, 2013, 02:40:25 pm
Like in every life situation, the key word is: adapt.

Survival of the fittest.

Too much ranged? Play smart, plot ambushes, adjust your play style, support your ranged (I know this one is painful).


If you don't like the above options, then you should try eu_2.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: peter_afca7 on September 09, 2013, 02:44:30 pm
this is how i adapt visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: F i n on September 09, 2013, 03:48:20 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


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Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Kafein on September 09, 2013, 03:49:16 pm
Edit: oh and please dont use highlevel players for all kinds of QQ, they dont represent the "average" players.

That's one the most glaring issues with ranged QQ in my opinion. People that are mediocre at the game don't really die all that much to ranged because they actually die in melee rather often. On the contrary, players that rarely ever lose a 1v1 in melee and do generally great in bigger fights without dying will notice getting killed by ranged like the nose in the center of your face, to the point it's really OP how easy it is to kill the very best players when you start using ranged weapons. This is the source of a lot of contradicting "facts" on both sides of the argument.
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: F i n on September 09, 2013, 03:52:55 pm
I am sure everyone is sick of "Nurf archers arghbhsewarhdshdgsaf!" kind of bs , because they re nerfed to death already. The problem with archers is they re always in the same team , one team with tons of ranged , other team with all 2hers and skinny ass cavs . Well I played as a hoplite recently and I was pretty tanky, but getting interrupted with peasant arrows is not fun, i have to say.

All the qqing about ranged has a point ; people are not whining about simple ranged pew pew , but they re "kiting" , even with 10kg big ass arrows, they can run faster than every decent melee guy , when they re not being chased anymore, they start shooting again.

The battle's general plan has to be like this imo ;

Ranged camps somewhere, melee protects them , cav tries to gank enemy melee so they can reach enemy ranged.

The battle's general plan at the moment ;

Ranged camps somewhere -mostly roofs- if the map is plain , they just go to the corner. melee attacks enemy melee immediately and get tons of shots , cavs move to the enemy spawn asap and kill late spawners and afkers ,  then get tons of shots.So the team with most ranged wins.

And everyone says "Get a shield lol" , you see, the problem is not with the ranged, its with the kill hungry melee scumbags , they always chase archers, avoiding the team and all the enemies, then they die and start assaulting archers in forums , what we have to do is sticking up and remembering this is a team game, you re not solo.

That's why there should not be a Multiplier but a reward system for teamplay... oh wait
Title: Re: eu1 tonight
Post by: Osiris on September 09, 2013, 06:10:07 pm
This thread has gone waaaaay off topic :D OP was about how lulzy and frustrating it can be when all the HA and most of the ranged get balanced to the same team for a map or two. This wasn't a nerf archery/how to combat archery thread ^^ If you want to discuss how OP massed archer is or how UP archers are or how to change the balancing system plz make a suggestion or head over to the chamber of tears  :twisted: