cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Radix on May 07, 2011, 01:13:09 am

Title: TK penalty
Post by: Radix on May 07, 2011, 01:13:09 am
Simple question, do u want it back?? like in old days??

I didnt play meele much since old cRPG, but now im back into it and I feel like amount of teamhits increased like 3 times since old cRPG. And it looks like more than half of teamhits happens not because they are incidential but because ppl just dont care, in the end it is not that hard to click 'block' button when u see that ur swing is going to teamhit. And in 70% of cases ppl are not even bothered to say 'sorry'.... I say, hammer them with penalties till they learn to care about others.
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: OzyTheSage on May 07, 2011, 02:50:57 am
I feel really guilty when I teamkill someone, simply because I know that perhaps they would have helped win the match, and because I know the person behind the computer is very angry at me.

A penalty of some sort could help, I remember when you were really encouraged to watch your swings otherwise you'll lose a bunch of money. I even thought it would be funny if the cash you lost went to the person you TK'd for compensation, though I can see how that would be abused...

Maybe if you teamkill one of your items breaks? You'd have to pay money to repair it, which is pretty much the same thing. However, people with expensive gear would probably suffer a whole lot from that kind of system, and they already have to deal with the high repair cost from it breaking normally.
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: Kafein on May 07, 2011, 02:57:07 am
Why not loosing a good amount of money and xp when you tk (between 1 and 1/2 of what you win in a single round), and having this redistributed among all the other players of your team, to make up a little bit for the lesser chance of winning.
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: HarunYahya on May 07, 2011, 03:00:11 am
I voted yes it's getting annoying.
Some one should go out and tell people that
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: Kafein on May 07, 2011, 03:01:17 am
sorry for tk :/


Haha I love this text below your avatar  :D
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: HarunYahya on May 07, 2011, 03:33:31 am
Haaah I was hoping no one notices that :shock:
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: Tears of Destiny on May 07, 2011, 05:12:03 am
Since people care about their score so much, just change a TK penalty from -1 to -3 and see how that effects TKing. (Shamelessly stealing this from Aldryk)
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: Segd on May 07, 2011, 05:33:58 am
Since people care about their score so much, just change a TK penalty from -1 to -3 and see how that effects TKing. (Shamelessly stealing this from Aldryk)
But how about teamhitting?
Reflective damage is best option. & it will eliminate tk on purpose.
Just lower the reflective damage from hitting horses.
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: Radix on May 07, 2011, 12:20:56 pm
I think reflective dmg is a good option, and -3 instead of -1 to keep focused those' berserker' guys that dont care about their HP anywas. I think this way the 'whatever' symptom would be eliminated.

and yes some ppl are damn greedy about score, now days u see 8 guys hunting one and in result teamhiting god knows how many times themselves tking at least 2 teammates and then killing the enemy. Whats the point?? when i see 3 gus after one i just go somwhere else or watch from a distance if they are going to need help with that one.
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: Kafein on May 07, 2011, 12:27:01 pm
But how about teamhitting?
Reflective damage is best option. & it will eliminate tk on purpose.
Just lower the reflective damage from hitting horses.

This was proposed countless times and allways refused for a very good reason : reflective damage is silly. We hopefully aren't a kiddo community yet, so we can enjoy some quality gameplay.

Edit :

The -3 penalty for TK, with an automatic kick when you reach -5, that would be a very good reason for dumb people to stop playing battles like in siege mode, just swinging widely and thinking "whatev's" when they kill an ally.
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: Radix on May 08, 2011, 01:30:15 am
well so far 77% would like TK penalty to come back. Just refreshing, I would like devs to see and comment on this.
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: Riddaren on May 08, 2011, 04:05:41 am
well so far 77% would like TK penalty to come back. Just refreshing, I would like devs to see and comment on this.

Only people who played back then knows what actual penelty is.
A TK penelty could be instant death, hit point loss next round, loss of gold, loss of xp, negative kill score etc.
So what is it?
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: Magikarp on May 09, 2011, 11:43:12 am
Not mah endgame tkes!
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: Radix on May 09, 2011, 11:56:06 am
Quote
So what is it?

it is whatever will stop ppl from being unconscious of others existence while they swing viciously their weapons.

Its up to devs and players what kind of penalty they want.
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: HarunYahya on May 09, 2011, 01:34:43 pm
Riddaren i love your Signature lol nice work !
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: UrLukur on May 09, 2011, 01:46:59 pm
No, teamkilling is fine as it is.
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on May 09, 2011, 01:58:52 pm
Yes to teamkill penalty.
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: UrLukur on May 09, 2011, 02:04:16 pm
Yes to teamkill penalty.

What it will add to the gameplay ? There is already penalty, you are less likely to win a round. And remember that there is auto release at the end of round that result in teamkills. Do you want to punish those people too ?
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: Nessaj on May 09, 2011, 02:05:22 pm
The self-damage on TD system is silly, never apply that, too much abuse. It is the equivalent of FPS servers without TD, a lower form of playing that truly ruin games. Never, ever, promote it.

Acceptable approaches:
TD/TK is a natural part of any multiplayer game with respect for it self and its players.
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: Radix on May 09, 2011, 02:39:26 pm
Quote
No, teamkilling is fine as it is.

I dont think it is fine when 4 of 6 deaths are caused by a team mate.

Quote
There is already penalty, you are less likely to win a round

This is clear to me, you and every smart/old enough person, but not to kids and ppl who dont give a shit about anything but the guy in front of them. It is punishment for you and me but not for teamhitters, they just dont give a shit.

Quote
TD/TK is a natural part of any multiplayer game with respect for it self and its players.

Depends on number of TD/TK happening. I played lots of multiplayers and in cRPG they happen way to often. Ofcourse it is natural though, but u can minimalise it if u WANT, the problem is that too many ppl dont even WANT to think about it, cose what if they lose the chance of gaining one kill?? 

U know, I wouldnt care so much if ppl at least would say 'sorry', but majority dont say it what shows that they dont care and they will keep it this way cose.... theres no penalty.
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on May 09, 2011, 02:48:39 pm
What it will add to the gameplay ? There is already penalty, you are less likely to win a round. And remember that there is auto release at the end of round that result in teamkills. Do you want to punish those people too ?
One could argue that a penalty to teamkilling reduces teamkilling and therefore makes it more likely for your team to win.
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: Corwin on May 09, 2011, 03:06:42 pm
One could argue that a penalty to teamkilling reduces teamkilling and therefore makes it more likely for your team to win.
I agree. Besides, it would only take couple of month to discipline players. I am all for the penalty, for example no exp and gold next round when u tk.
What to do about th, I have no idea.
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: Memento_Mori on May 09, 2011, 03:21:30 pm
I dont think it is fine when 4 of 6 deaths are caused by a team mate.


I lol'd at that one, wtf server are you playing on where more than 50% of the deaths are from tks, I'm all for punishing assholes who swing wildly without care but you sir are exaggerating your point, is there a penalty for exaggerations? we should get one.. I'm going to make a thread. xD

BTW when I accidentally tk you, I'll apologize when I'm dead or the round is over, if you don't read it I don't care... It's a game with FF where we slaughter each other in medieval battles, don't think we should need so much hand holding but whatever. xD
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: Lako on May 09, 2011, 03:26:14 pm
No! It would be boring..
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: Torp on May 09, 2011, 03:56:42 pm
Well... i currently play cav and i often kill enemies who are fighting a teammate.
I succeed 80% of the time or something like that, but on a whole map i often kill a few teammates even though i try not to.

I would like to not be punished because of this, cause if i was, i wouldnt try to help my teammates and that would lead to my team being 'weaker'

i am sure others feel the same way
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on May 09, 2011, 04:25:53 pm
Well... i currently play cav and i often kill enemies who are fighting a teammate.
I succeed 80% of the time or something like that, but on a whole map i often kill a few teammates even though i try not to.

I would like to not be punished because of this, cause if i was, i wouldnt try to help my teammates and that would lead to my team being 'weaker'

i am sure others feel the same way
Sorry, but I'd rather not be help by cav at all. 50% of the time they just bump me leading to my death or outright chop my head off. Stay away from me. :(

Sorry, I'm allowed a little rage. I got killed by friendly cav 8 times yesterday and 4 times by friendly archers.
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: Magikarp on May 09, 2011, 04:53:35 pm
Sorry, but I'd rather not be help by cav at all. 50% of the time they just bump me leading to my death or outright chop my head off. Stay away from me. :(

Sorry, I'm allowed a little rage. I got killed by friendly cav 8 times yesterday and 4 times by friendly archers.
Well yeah, sometimes the occasional bump is unavoidable, we don't have brakes or anything :p.
But I sure do hate skillless horsemen who do nothing but bump others while not caring at all that they will take damage and die.
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: Radix on May 09, 2011, 04:56:13 pm
Quote
I lol'd at that one, wtf server are you playing on where more than 50% of the deaths are from tks,

CAUSED is the main word in what I have said. Team mate slash u, ur char puts shield down, sec after that enemy cuts off ur head. U get it now? including all sorts of bumps and ranged TD.

I am not exaggerating. It was an example from the game I had about 30 minutes before I wrote this.

Quote
is there a penalty for exaggerations? we should get one.. I'm going to make a thread

briliant joke. clap, clap.

Quote
BTW when I accidentally tk you, I'll apologize when I'm dead or the round is over, if you don't read it I don't care

good for you, however majority dont say it cose they dont care, and those who dont care should be punished so they start to care.

 And I always read chat.
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: Inkompetent on May 10, 2011, 06:43:35 am
But I sure do hate skillless horsemen who do nothing but bump others while not caring at all that they will take damage and die.
It's for those horsemen I have my Heavy Throwing Axes. I don't care if they are enemy or friendly.
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: UrLukur on May 10, 2011, 09:51:49 am
One could argue that a penalty to teamkilling reduces teamkilling and therefore makes it more likely for your team to win.
Kind of silly logic. Penalty to teamkilling do not do that, it just penalize player who do it. I played just a few hours after patch, and amount of teamkilling is more than reasonable.

You still don't adressed main point - when rounds end, weapons are released and people are teamkilled. You want to punish them too ?
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: MouthnHoof on May 10, 2011, 09:56:50 am
Well... i currently play cav and i often kill enemies who are fighting a teammate.
I succeed 80% of the time or something like that, but on a whole map i often kill a few teammates even though i try not to.

I would like to not be punished because of this, cause if i was, i wouldnt try to help my teammates and that would lead to my team being 'weaker'

i am sure others feel the same way
The problem is that in most of these cases, the infantry do not wish any help. I don't know how many times we were 3 vs. 1 and a "helping" friendly cav comes and know 1-2 of us down getting someone killed. Or an archer/xbow who think he is Wilhelm Tel and tries, from a mile away, to shoot between the 3 friendlies to "help" them. These bumps that get you killed are not even registered as TK. In the case of archers I often do not even know who shot me, except that the arrow is stuck in the back of my neck in the direction of the "friendlies".

It is the responsibility of the cavs to stay away from friendlies footmen/archers - do not run between us, if I hear hoofs, I hit first and look for the icon later. It is the responsibility of the archers not to shoot into friendly infantry - if they want to "support" and shoot into melee, they need to get close, wait for the right moment and be careful about it. If the infantry is aware of the archer position he will even create opportunities for him. Melee TK is a bit different because the HAVE TO be close to each other, but still it is their fault if the TK.

TK penalty: Lower the multiplier by 1.
Does not hurt the team, stings a bit, easy to implement (I think...).
The player should get a big clear message on screen that his multiplier is down by 1 due to TK to get the full psychological effect.
If the multiplier is already 1 it can go down to 0 till the end of the round (i.e. 0 exp/gold ticks), or just leave it at 1 as long as the big message is displayed to bum the player.
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: karasu on May 10, 2011, 01:10:03 pm
So, when is this coming back?

Personally (and this is shared by numerous players), I grow tired everyday of having 20% tops of effective HP, since whenever there's a fight I get combo back slashed constantly losing balance or even team killing me. They simply don't care, there's no following "sorry for team hit", nothing.
They do it because they can.
This applies to ranged as-well. I rarely (and I mean rarely) team hit with my archer, and when I do I'd have no problem being punished by it, it's my mistake.

Can't you just turn on that damage mitigation on friendly hit option and adjust it for like 60% mirror damage, and reactive the TK penalties?

I believe this is an urgent matter, not just by my opinion, but by overall opinion of the community, so please, consider this Dev friends.
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: Vovka on May 10, 2011, 01:26:20 pm
revlective damage, stupidly and not probably
friendlyfire off -  stupidly and not probably
complete repairs after the end of the round for TK -  condign punishment.
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: La Makina on May 10, 2011, 03:21:13 pm
I went once on a NA server: the rules set reflective damages at 1%. No big deal but when you do the mistake of hitting a friend, you get this tap on the fingers that reminds you to be more careful. I found it educative and not killing the game (and not killing me).
We could give it a try on EU server.
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: Blondin on May 10, 2011, 03:39:17 pm
Even 1% of reflective damages can be awfull if you are in a fight as you are stun by this"hit" your enemy can kill you.

Btw, i believe that TK is a part of the game, and that's'already punish the team.

Also tk is a part of battle, history told us that some mistake can be made, you know colateral damage...
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: Inkompetent on May 10, 2011, 10:36:34 pm
I'd argue that the speed and crazy-dancing in melee is the fault for TKing. Not players. The game mechanics are designed around making fights so confusing and fast-paced, while the attacks themselves are slower, that is impossible to NOT occasionally hit your teammates. Rather than inventing a system to penalize the players, the combat system should be redesigned if possible to lower the occurance of team-wounding where people now change places faster during fighting than electrons change places inside of an atom.
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: Radix on May 10, 2011, 11:26:03 pm
Quote
that is impossible to NOT occasionally hit your teammates

I dissprove what you have said everytime I hit block when I see that my swing is going to TH. U can also change direction of ur swing and it works in most cases. If poeple would try to not hit teammates as hard as they try to kill an enemy I bet that there would be 80% les THs.
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: Radix on May 13, 2011, 06:07:05 pm
chadz, is there any chance that u will consider implementing any kind of TK penalty?
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: Phew on May 13, 2011, 07:53:37 pm
I use a long, unbalanced weapon (Great Long Bardiche), and I have high PS, so I get more than my fair share of TKs. 90% of them are because I'm swinging at an enemy, but someone else kills them mid-swing, so my swing goes right through them and hits my teammate. I can't just block to end the swing, because my weapon is unbalanced. I apologize in this situation, because I chose an unbalanced weapon and accept the consequences.

The rest of the TKs usually go something like this; I'm wailing on some guy's Huscarl shield, trying to bring it down. When it finally breaks, a facehugger on my team swoops in front of me with his Steel Pick or something to get the kill. If you deliberately step in front of me while I'm engaged with an enemy and you get smacked in the butt by my Bardiche, I don't apologize. Just like I accept that my choice of weapon will cause me to deliver more TKs, facehuggers need to understand that their tactics get them TKed.

This is a team game. TKing hinders your team's chance to win, which is enough penalty. I don't support multiplier/reflective dmg/gold/etc loss upon TKing, because this unfairly punishes people with unbalanced weapons and those that happen to deliver a TK because of their own teammate's idiocy. It's not always the TKer who is at fault.

P.S.-The above only applies to non-intentional TKs. People that spawnhit should get insta-kicked from the server.
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: EponiCo on May 13, 2011, 09:11:58 pm
I dissprove what you have said everytime I hit block when I see that my swing is going to TH. U can also change direction of ur swing and it works in most cases. If poeple would try to not hit teammates as hard as they try to kill an enemy I bet that there would be 80% les THs.

You know I do that, too, but sometimes it's just too late. Especially with unbalanced weapons, arrows and horses. What Inkompetent says is correct (ofc there's also just carelessness), many times I'm just trying to help people, but a sudden turn on their behalf or killing the enemy in between and my hit hits them. Also, keep in mind that good agi  players exploit this. F.e. I see an ally fighting an enemy, so I make a cautious approach to not cause teamhits, but the enemy sees me and backpeddles and turns and it's impossible for me to get close. Jump away from swing and it passes into ally.
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: Radix on May 13, 2011, 11:20:58 pm
all u said guys is correct, I am not going to say that I dont TH cose that would be bullshit BUT  why some poeple feel RLY strong need to commit into the fight where it is 4 teammates vs 1 enemy, why depiste the fact that there is only one enemy they use side swings which are most likely to TH. I get ur point guys and I can spot when the TH happened due to one of the situations u have mentioned and I am not upset then cose I know it wasnt that guy's fault, but I also can spot ppl that swing in whatever direction and never even try to stop their swings.

How about some options for person that was Tked?? eg. 1-decrease multiplayer 2-forgive.     or smthing like this
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: Duke on May 14, 2011, 04:03:56 am
If the poll wasn't closed, I would vote 'No'.
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: La Makina on May 14, 2011, 06:46:17 pm
No need to make something really punishing. A small gold fine just to make clear that the player did something bad would be enough imo.
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: Duke on May 14, 2011, 11:55:30 pm
The problem is that in most of these cases, the infantry do not wish any help. I don't know how many times we were 3 vs. 1 and a "helping" friendly cav comes and know 1-2 of us down getting someone killed. Or an archer/xbow who think he is Wilhelm Tel and tries, from a mile away, to shoot between the 3 friendlies to "help" them. These bumps that get you killed are not even registered as TK. In the case of archers I often do not even know who shot me, except that the arrow is stuck in the back of my neck in the direction of the "friendlies".

It is the responsibility of the cavs to stay away from friendlies footmen/archers - do not run between us, if I hear hoofs, I hit first and look for the icon later. It is the responsibility of the archers not to shoot into friendly infantry - if they want to "support" and shoot into melee, they need to get close, wait for the right moment and be careful about it. If the infantry is aware of the archer position he will even create opportunities for him. Melee TK is a bit different because the HAVE TO be close to each other, but still it is their fault if the TK.

While your points are all valid, no one ever talks about the opposite side of the issue: Lone infantry who run off or break ranks because they want to rambo or mini-duel every enemy like it's their goddamn birthright, even if they know full well that there's 3-4 friendly archers waiting for a shot.

He-man tactics, excessive circle strafing when you know there's archers wanting to fire... these things are never discussed.  It's always the archers' fault.  I call BS on that.
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: Radix on May 15, 2011, 12:45:54 am
While your points are all valid, no one ever talks about the opposite side of the issue: Lone infantry who run off or break ranks because they want to rambo or mini-duel every enemy like it's their goddamn birthright, even if they know full well that there's 3-4 friendly archers waiting for a shot.

He-man tactics, excessive circle strafing when you know there's archers wanting to fire... these things are never discussed.  It's always the archers' fault.  I call BS on that.

these days ranged TH is far more rare than meele TH..... meele TH just reached an hilarious ammount. Its is  rare to not get team hitted in meele. Honsetly half of the dmg is usually due to my 'tammates'....... something needs to be done. jus do something im sick of it, if devs dont want Tk penalty, maybe decrease the friendly dmg to 50%???
Title: Re: TK penalty
Post by: yiyayiyayo on May 15, 2011, 02:35:33 am
I remember , in battle field 2, a TK victim can choose whether to punnish a TKer  or not.