Nerf the maneuverable horses instead.Well, yes, the Arabian Warhorse is broken a bit atm.
I run around with the heavier horses every once in a while, but what people don't get it's not a rambo around and backstab lone noobs horse, it's mostly for risky infantry support.
fact is that unless they are triple loomed, they are shit.
Nerf the maneuverable horses instead.
I run around with the heavier horses every once in a while, but what people don't get it's not a rambo around and backstab lone noobs horse, it's mostly for risky infantry support.
I've been asking for an Arabian Warhorse(aka Sarranid Horse) to be nerfed since they have started nerfing cavalry. Yet they did nothing. However nerfing the Arabian Warhorse alone won't change much to the underused armoured horses. Everyone will just move on to the Courser and similar horses.
Nerfing the arabian horse IS the first thing they should have done, 3 patches ago. And still is now. They never did it (probably the unbalance dev team did not wanted that nerf).
Maneuver, speed and low size is way more interesting than armor and charge damage. I would take a Destrier instead of my Rouncey if I could, but that leaves no gold for my armor, so I heirloomed my rouncey once and it's a bit better.
We need to take the power of agility of horses into account and balance the horse prices (decreased for armored, increased for agile). Also, because this is both more realistic and balanced, increase the riding requirement of agile horses, and decrease it for slow horses (armored ones mostly).
Devs say they want diversity on the battlefield, yet 80% of the horses I see are either coursers or arabian. The first really armored horses like chargers are the less used ones. Trolls use the PC between their naked leeching rounds, but no one uses destrier or charger.
About scores, this is true. If you are lucky you get 20 kills in a round. If not you are headshotted when you approach the enemy mob. Fighting skill won't change things much. But the ability to correctly reading the situation, supporting your melee mates and knowing when a rambo attack plan will succeed with you alive at the end, is what makes a good cavalry. In the end, your score depends on the enemy teamwork. If the enemy is blind, it's easy to pump kills without effort (those so satisfying charges when you can just randomly slash and make tons of kills, because no one noticed you). If every archer is protected, you will have an hard time killing anything.
I've been asking for an Arabian Warhorse(aka Sarranid Horse) to be nerfed since they have started nerfing cavalry. Yet they did nothing. However nerfing the Arabian Warhorse alone won't change much to the underused armoured horses. Everyone will just move on to the Courser and similar horses.
The Courser and the like are fine atm imo, so the only fix I see is reducing repair costs.
I personally don't think they are fine balance-wise, but they are certainly not fine with realism. We try to do balance with a bit of realism when possible so I think the maneuver stat should be between roughly 40 and 48 for all horses. Being a 360° turret with a lance is enough to hit everything anyway. Good players don't need maneuver to evade unplanned attacks, they just plan ahead.We don't need it, but it sure as hell is good to have :P.
I just find it astounding that you guys think that the most overpowered items in the game are useless unless you heirloom them. You guys probably weren't around when everyone had these horses. Do you think people picked the small, speedy horses when money wasn't an issue? No. They went straight for the near unkillable tanks like the plated charger. Back then, it was a hell of a lot harder to get everything heirloomed too. Even players that were mediocre at best topped the scoreboards.You seem to have forgotten that armoured horses have received big nerfs in the last patches. Going for that Plated Charger just isn't worth it anymore. Lighter horses can catch up to you, outmanouvre you and kill you much easier than you can kill them. Or they will just couch your horse, instantly killing it. Versus men on foot, the horses are too slow and unmanouverable to get out of risky situations quickly.
The January patch was done largely in response to these players. The horse repair costs insured that these very powerful horses were still in the game, but could only be used sparingly.
And I'm sorry, but any player who thinks that cavalry absolutely need these horses and that these horses are underpowered either has no clue about game balance or is one of the worst cavalry players in the game.
Keep the armored horses rare.
@Kafein, I agree with you completely. 48 should be the maximum maneuverability on a horse, even if heirloomed. While a poorly planned attack with result in a horse and horsemen getting killed, a skilled player would find this as a mere inconvenience.
I would type more, but I'm in the process of making some BIG-ASS cookies for a photoshoot soon.
I just find it astounding that you guys think that the most overpowered items in the game are useless unless you heirloom them. You guys probably weren't around when everyone had these horses. Do you think people picked the small, speedy horses when money wasn't an issue? No. They went straight for the near unkillable tanks like the plated charger. Back then, it was a hell of a lot harder to get everything heirloomed too. Even players that were mediocre at best topped the scoreboards.
The January patch was done largely in response to these players. The horse repair costs insured that these very powerful horses were still in the game, but could only be used sparingly.
And I'm sorry, but any player who thinks that cavalry absolutely need these horses and that these horses are underpowered either has no clue about game balance or is one of the worst cavalry players in the game.
Keep the armored horses rare.
@Kafein, I agree with you completely. 48 should be the maximum maneuverability on a horse, even if heirloomed. While a poorly planned attack with result in a horse and horsemen getting killed, a skilled player would find this as a mere inconvenience.
I would type more, but I'm in the process of making some BIG-ASS cookies for a photoshoot soon.
The repair bill on them is ridiculous at the moment.
Elite armor sets are not meant to be used every round. That was the entire purpose of upkeep, reduce the number of plated chargers and tincans running around. I still see an armored horse every map when server is full, and the elephants have made a return. The upkeep is working as intended. It requires you to play a money making build half the time, and a money using build the other half. The goal of upkeep was not to have cRPG millionaires :shock:
Fine, but I think the problem is the domination of light horses. By whatever mean, armored horses should be more interesting to play with (I mean, it's part of the usual equipment), not to troll with for two rounds. Heavy cav has many disadvantages too. Before the upkeep patch, it was common knowledge that the Destrier was one of the best horses around, partially because it's balanced. Not too frail, not too slow. Able against other cav and good for bumpslashing.
So many things changed since then I doubt armored horses would be much more used if we reduced their upkeep a bit.
You seem to have forgotten that armoured horses have received big nerfs in the last patches. Going for that Plated Charger just isn't worth it anymore. Lighter horses can catch up to you, outmanouvre you and kill you much easier than you can kill them. Or they will just couch your horse, instantly killing it. Versus men on foot, the horses are too slow and unmanouverable to get out of risky situations quickly.
Yes, I don't want every cavalryman to use the armoured ones. But I find it ridiculous that we have to pay so much for armoured horses while their stats are mediocre. For instance, yesterday I saw someone riding a charger. I haven't seen anyone riding that horse since months.
The repair bill on them is ridiculous at the moment.
Its manueverability is a bit of a drawback, but you pretty much covered it: other cavalry are the only things that can kill your horse regularly. Especially now. With throwing lances nerfed into oblivion, there is no way to consistently kill the armored horses if you are on foot.Yet Light Horses do much better against the majority of the players?
Arrows: now cut damage. Against an armored horse, they barely scratch them
Throwing: jarrids, throwing lances, throwing spears, and throwing axes were overzealously nerfed, and not even a full stack of these can kill your horse.
Crossbows: The closest contender to the armored horse killer. Slow reloaded times and two-slots for crossbow alone make these an undesireable choice.
Pikes: Can stop a horse, but are ineffective at killing them.
2H: too risky
Polearms: Decent choice, but cavalry easily avoid these.
1H: cavalry bait
Whenever you have an item or a class where the only counter is the class in question itself, that class is too powerful. The real counter to these armored horse is the almighty dollar. People who can afford these horses are often the ones who decided which way the match is swung.
If this game had realism anyway, we would steamroll almost everything.If this game had realism, horses could not gallop on half the terrain and break their legs running downhill.
If this game had realism, horses could not gallop on half the terrain and break their legs running downhill.Wrong, how many times do I have to repeat this? I don't want people to be able to use them as standard equipment, I never said such a thing. I was just saying that the repair bill is too high for what you are getting. I want a small decrease, to ensure that:
Armored horses should be rare. I see only 2-3 plates (above transitional) in every round of 100 people server and there is usually 1-2 heavy horses. I'd say mission accomplished on the upkeep. No build should be stable with a tincan or a rhinocerhorse as standard equipment. Therefore their cost is no "worth it" by definition - it is a show off, or once in a few kind of equipment.
With the return of cavalry, light cav will decimate any heavy cav on the field. Their extreme cost is no longer justified.
Heavy cav is immune to Horse archers, but vulnerable to light cav.
With the return of cavalry, light cav will decimate any heavy cav on the field. Their extreme cost is no longer justified.Immune? Now that would be overpowered. Even my plated charger takes damage from their arrows.
Heavy cav is immune to Horse archers, but vulnerable to light cav.
Immune? Now that would be overpowered. Even my plated charger takes damage from their arrows.
Heavy Cavalry is even more hopeless against horse archers, due to lack of speed and manouverability to keep up with them.
But yeah, the high cost isn't justified anymore, not with these stats.
We need to take the power of agility of horses into account and balance the horse prices (decreased for armored, increased for agile). Also, because this is both more realistic and balanced, increase the riding requirement of agile horses, and decrease it for slow horses (armored ones mostly).
I don't want to make it cheap. For god's sake, I feel like tutoring at a kindergarden. I only want a slight decrease so people get an impuls to use them again and increase diversity.
DID YOU NOT READ WHAT I SAID3800 gold is fine? You make me laugh.
They are useable, I am going to use one next gen, I could use one for the rest of my life if I wanted, the price is FINE.
feels like I'm talking to a pre-schooler... xD
3800 gold is fine? You make me laugh.
Sure, some grinders who got millions of gold can use this thing frequently.
and you're right, 3800 is far too little I wish they'd up it a bit because 'grinders' still can use it frequently, as you have said.What he obviously meant was that those horses should be able to be your "main" horse, as in, the one you normally take when you go cav. Not after having grinded for 3 months straight.
care to agree with me more? xD
I have enough money to ride plated chargers in milanese plate until I die of old age.. So that's a big NO from me, have you not seen LLJK's plated charger death squad? you want more of that? xD