cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: jergu on May 15, 2013, 09:49:42 pm

Title: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: jergu on May 15, 2013, 09:49:42 pm
Currently CRPG does not have too many new players on and i suppose that the reason to that is that crpg has rather unforgiving combat. By that i mean that new and not so good players have really hard time surviving as the more experienced players who have mastered the game mechanics are just <sexually abusing> them. In order for a new player to survive
they would have to get high armor gear which they ofc cant afford. So i suggest that all/most of the weapons should be nerfed slightly so that the game would me more "forgiving" so that the learning curve would be more enjoyable. all opinions accepted except hate :D cuz i knaow im right.
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: Necrorave on May 15, 2013, 09:51:11 pm
First of all.  No.  Second, that why "Skip the Fun" was invented.

PS: Create a poll so you don't get downvoted
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: Panos on May 15, 2013, 09:51:54 pm
Everyone was a peasant/newbi once.

you will adept slowly.
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: jergu on May 15, 2013, 09:53:59 pm
Im still bad at the game but i know how it works but pls lets not get to that i grinded for years and they also have to but this was just a suggestion to raise the playerbase. By making it more easily adaptable
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: no_rules_just_play on May 15, 2013, 09:54:06 pm
DO NOT FUCKING -1 HIM GUYS

you might think its a bad idea. its a new forum user after all!
here my friend get some +1 for free

(however i do not agree. i believe this is just the charm of crpg. it gives you a feeling to play an 'elite' game. its true that its very hard at the start, but it will only become more addicting and at a certain point you will not be able to quit. like i was :P)

btw jergu, check out my signature
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Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: Tibe on May 15, 2013, 09:57:20 pm
This is why I exactly like it. Its tough. You get to eat alot of penises at the start and later there is nothing more pleasing than making them taste the penis later....
............

Yea......I have no idea where I went with this.....
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: Jarold on May 15, 2013, 09:57:50 pm
If we nerf weapons they will still rape new players, just in more hits.

Peasant years run, try to fight, and die.

ERMAGERHD FRIGGIN YEARS kill all ze peasants!
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: Miwiw on May 15, 2013, 10:00:30 pm
Once you're level 20 you got enough gold to buy a decent weapon/equipment which is about medium gear (Heraldic Mail/Kuyak/Brigandine and similar, Mittens, Mail Boots, Bascinet) which is fairly good enough for most builds and as often proven, plate doesnt help you more and is not better than Mail usually.
New players rather lack skill and experience concerning the warband engine. You need some hours to get used to it, especially when coming from another genre and games like CoD/CS/WoW. ;)

Weapons shouldn't be weaker, I don't want 10minute rounds cause it takes too long to take everyone down as people know how to block by now. At least most do.
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: jergu on May 15, 2013, 10:00:59 pm
I've already played for 1 year but i just worry about the playerbase currently. and i also agree that it gets fun when u get trough the start but not too many people like penises
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: Fanlaen on May 15, 2013, 10:10:22 pm
I think the game is very punishing but also very rewarding once you start to understand what the hell you're doing. If you make it less punishing it will be less rewarding, you might attract more players, but you'll have less players sticking around for long periods of time.
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on May 15, 2013, 10:16:04 pm
That's the point of the game.  You're a peasant when you start out (literally due to your skills, and also because of your gear).  Start saving up some money as you gain levels.  I was competing relatively well by the time I retired my first character. 

It took me quite a while to actually even get into CRPG after my bro showed me it.  I didn't want to be at a massive disadvantage to the people who'd already been playing for 6 months.  You take your lumps, learn how to play, acquire gear, and better skills for your character.  It feels all that much more rewarding when you've "finally made it" (or so I've been told, I'm still turrible). 
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: jergu on May 15, 2013, 10:18:41 pm
I Demand to know the reason 4 the infamy all it was a suggestion not something hateful just because u dont agree dosnt mean infamy should be given :D now gimme 10 more
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: Vibe on May 15, 2013, 10:27:08 pm
raping

thought it was auto-censored
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: Algarn on May 15, 2013, 10:36:38 pm
cRPG is hard because players are good , you won't see guys who don't have skill blocking ...

Fisrt at all , you have to learn to block decently , and get a medium armor like 40 body armor + a 3k weap at melee for the beginning, and go to duel server . DON'T GIVE UP if you are beaten at the beginning ! If you try again and again, you'll learn...

Second thing , if you want to go ranged , you have to know those classes are really nerfed if we compare to native ...

And last thing , for have training , free items , and tips on classes , go in the no rules's clan , then , you 'll learn to fight , an you will become a good player.

Welcome and good luck...
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: [ptx] on May 16, 2013, 12:08:45 am
You do understand that your suggestion shoots yourself in the foot?

The uber-geared uber-loomed players, in heavy, triple loomed armor with triple loomed gauntlets and helmets - they can already take like half a dozen good hits from a good weapon. Which is one of the main reasons why they get such good scores most of the time. Nerf weapons - these guys become even more hard to kill, actually more so than the unloomed guys, because of how armour works in this game.
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: Kafein on May 16, 2013, 12:14:39 am
The thing to do to reduce the influence of armor is to give a flat damage buff to all melee weapons.
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: Prpavi on May 16, 2013, 12:26:57 am
This mod and game in general has a really steep learning curve and it will take you months before you stop sucking completley, but stick trough it and you will be hooked, guranateed.

Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: Riddaren on May 16, 2013, 12:42:18 am
I understand you but personally I totally disagree. I would rather want the game to become even less forgiving.

Besides, I don't believe that people leave the game because they think it's too hard. I believe they stay because they want to become better at it.
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: Panos on May 16, 2013, 12:49:13 am
If u want to get some kills , here`s the formula.

1.15/24 Build
2.Longsword/ or any other 2h sword.
3.Endless spam.
4. ????
5. Profit
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: zagibu on May 16, 2013, 12:50:46 am
Those who leave because it's too hard wouldn't stick around for long anyway, even if it was less hard. Bad players constantly have to find new games to be bad at.
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: Riddaren on May 16, 2013, 01:01:32 am
If u want to get some kills , here`s the formula.

1.15/24 Build
2.Longsword/ or any other 2h sword.
3.Endless spam.
4. ????
5. Profit

There are other things than that which are far more important. For example:

1. Good hardware.
2. A stable internet connection and a low ping.
3. A well configured M&B with good key bindings.
4. Zooming out from 3rd person mode.
5. Using a high mouse sensitivity
6. Build
7. Gear
8. Gaming skill
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: Thomek on May 16, 2013, 01:27:42 am
Yeah, a well configured crpg is not really mentioned to newbies. You should have stable 60+ fps, and a mouse setting which make you able to turn as fast as the engine supports while still having accuracy.

One thing to practice is to see how accurate you can do 180 degree turns. (and other angles of course, in duel server)

Of course, don't play on a wireless connection if you can avoid it.
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: Joker86 on May 16, 2013, 01:52:26 am
While I do approve of the intetion of that suggestion, the solution itself is not a good one.

First of all: many veteran players complain about the game not being deadly enough, and I agree on that. It used to be a lot deadlier some time ago. While it is always smart to think of the newbies, you also have to keep the veteran players motivated. Your suggestion would piss them all off, and they are in the majority after all.

Then: your suggestion would not help at all. If anything, it would make things worse. Because if a noob can block only like 25% of all hits, the amount of the hits would not change anything. It's not like noobs have problems blocking the first hits and then somehow magically warm up and get better. In this case your suggestion would help. But in its current shape, your suggestion would only lead to less "lucky kills", which would move the results of the fights closer to the statistic middle, which again would mean, that the expectable outcome (= veteran wins) would appear even more often. 

It's okay the way it is. You know, "difficult game" can be a selling attribute. Just look what is said about Tribes: Ascend, Dark Souls or Dwarf Fortress! The last game even has incredibly awful graphics, but people still love to play it, and part of that motivation is the difficulty! If people don't like it, it's simply not their game.
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: Adam_Bomb on May 16, 2013, 04:03:35 am
New players would still get abused with weaker weapons...
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: rustyspoon on May 16, 2013, 05:08:59 am
::sigh:: I miss how it used to be before the devs changed the xp system. Back then being a peasant actually meant something. You got xp VERY slowly and you had to be close to the fighting and alive to get any. Remember the old "peasant survival guide" which pretty much just said, "Get a long, pokey stick, hide behind a knight try to poke some people and stay alive."

Being a peasant was fun as hell back then and a lot more intense than it is now. Nowadays when you retire you're only inconvenienced for what, an hour? Two? CRPG has already gone too soft.
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: Kafein on May 16, 2013, 08:04:21 am
If u want to get some kills , here`s the formula.

1.15/24 Build
2.Longsword/ or any other 2h sword.
3.Endless spam.
4. ????
5. Profit

33/3 with any long weapon is much easier, just saying. Spamming will let you eat swings anyway, better get as much HP as possible and down people fast
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: Christo on May 16, 2013, 09:08:22 am
Allow me to post this wonderful picture once again.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


About cRPG being unforgiving and tough to newbies: I wonder what your reaction would be if we had the 2010 system now.
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: IR_Kuoin on May 16, 2013, 09:17:39 am
Once you get a weapon that you are comfortable with and a suiting build, just practice blocking and the hard stage should be over. Also, join No_rules peasant squad for achieving accomplishment faster.
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: Everkistus on May 16, 2013, 09:34:21 am
::sigh:: I miss how it used to be before the devs changed the xp system. Back then being a peasant actually meant something. You got xp VERY slowly and you had to be close to the fighting and alive to get any. Remember the old "peasant survival guide" which pretty much just said, "Get a long, pokey stick, hide behind a knight try to poke some people and stay alive."

Being a peasant was fun as hell back then and a lot more intense than it is now. Nowadays when you retire you're only inconvenienced for what, an hour? Two? CRPG has already gone too soft.
This. It used to be better back then when getting your first kill was really a superb accomplishment. I really hope cRPG devs use a system like this in the new game as well.
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: KingBread on May 16, 2013, 09:36:18 am
This topic is confusing me. I hope that we won't have 70% of battlefield covered by peasants in new game
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: jergu on May 16, 2013, 02:09:41 pm
Well all of these comments really opened my eyes  :shock: and made me see a several things that i didnt think about first but my point was exactly to try to find a way to raise the playerbase . Nerfing  was just a suggestion that i thought that would work (obv it wont now that i saw the light) :D I would like to also know if any of you would have ideas that could work to raise the playerbase.
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: Kafein on May 16, 2013, 02:16:20 pm
Getting the old players to use noob gear again. One way to do it is to link the team balance to equipment cost.
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: Dexxtaa on May 16, 2013, 02:40:46 pm
You do understand that your suggestion shoots yourself in the foot?

The uber-geared uber-loomed players, in heavy, triple loomed armor with triple loomed gauntlets and helmets - they can already take like half a dozen good hits from a good weapon. Which is one of the main reasons why they get such good scores most of the time. Nerf weapons - these guys become even more hard to kill, actually more so than the unloomed guys, because of how armour works in this game.

All of a sudden, I'm okay with OPs suggestion. I'll just use my horse as my weapon.

+1 because OP called it. He's clearly right.
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: peter_afca7 on May 16, 2013, 02:49:12 pm
If u want to get some kills , here`s the formula.

1.15/24 Build
2.Longsword/ or any other 2h sword.
3.Endless spam.
4. ????
5. Profit
18/24 glaive spam is more rewarding in every situation
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: Fartface on May 16, 2013, 03:05:44 pm
Everyone was a peasant/newbi once.

you will adept slowly.
You´re still one  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: owens on May 16, 2013, 03:09:39 pm
^HAHA someone said glaive is better than longsword! hahahah



Seriously though the only problem i can see with old player vs new player in respect to looms is armour. Most weapons are okay.

10 extra armour for no weight penalty is too much that is ~20% extra armour on average. No melee weapon gets 20% extra damage thats for sure. I think 6-7 armour for loomed gloves + armour is more realistic and fair.
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: Grumbs on May 16, 2013, 03:28:59 pm
Although OP's solutions might not be so good, I agree partly with the overall sentiment.

If you get through the newbie process and stick with the game then you will end up a good player eventually. If the game is made too easy for newbies they won't ever need to get good. They will pick up bad habits or not care for team work or run off trying to solo.

Now the best thing for a newbie to do is stick with his team, support players, get to know who the more important targets are on your team and the enemy team, get a sense of where you should be in the battle at what time. Actual mechanical fighting skills are secondary to all the other things you can pick up while still being "bad". You can be "bad" and still be a strong team member. If any joe newbie can run in and get kills then all the other stuff will become less important, and it will actually be worse for newbies imo as they will just get slaughtered in manual combat type skills. So by making the game easier you might end up just making it easier for the experienced players

There are things you can do without nerfing the actual reliance on team mates/tactical side of it though. Like reduce the gap between loomed and unloomed guy and reduce the gap between fresh lvl1 guy and ready to retire lvl 30+. +10 armour is a bit much, why do some gloves give over 100% bonus? Why do gloves protect the body so much anyway? Why not increase levelling time for the initial levels? So 1-26 or so takes less time than now, but 26-31 takes a bit longer to compensate. Front load the gains more basically.

Why not reduce the frustration factor a bit? Players want to know why they died, and they want a sense of fairness. So RNG type deaths are never much fun, unless the player made an identifiable mistake that they can trace back to a point and say "damn why did I do that". Not "damn that guy is lucky". I'm talking partly random headshots from across the map, or glitchy kills from mounted players when their weapon model is nowhere near you when they attack (some bump slashes). Get rid of sound bugs like mounts in water (silent steps). Make 2 hand stabs more intuitive compared to polearms. They don't seem to glance the same way and do decent damage with a tiny poke with the end of the stab animation. You could even make the block animations make more sense, like the way down block functions (it looks really odd for a new player to hold the weapon horizontally to block all stabs). This is probably not going to happen or maybe not something I totally support, but visible signs of someone's relative strength so you can see at a glance that someone is very strong, or someone has lots of wounds etc. You can see that someone is very agile, but str is more of a hidden variable. Player damage is also quite random. Sometimes I only have a little blood on me but i'm actually at 1 hit to death.

Other things like the newbie help popup on the site are nice new additions. Stuff like that will really help.

TL;DR. Don't make the game easier for everyone and so nerf tactics/teamwork. But reduce the gap a little between loomed/high level guys, and make some aspects more intuitive and "fair"
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: Azlanek on May 16, 2013, 03:32:42 pm
+1 I agree completely with Grumbs' argument.
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: Tydeus on May 16, 2013, 04:02:08 pm
18/24 glaive spam is more rewarding in every situation
18/24 flamberge spam is more rewarding in every situation
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: bagge on May 16, 2013, 04:39:10 pm
my old friendguts who wanna nerf everything and do a Blizzard and make the game designed for kids. The only thing that needed a nerf was the bumps, which got slightly nerfed.
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: Panos on May 16, 2013, 04:49:47 pm
You´re still one  :mrgreen:

I`m better than 90% of your clanmates.

Including you.  :wink:
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: no_rules_just_play on May 16, 2013, 04:52:39 pm
fuck you too all fuckers who gave a new forum user -1

my old friendgets

:(((
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: Gurnisson on May 16, 2013, 04:54:25 pm
I`m better than 90% of your clanmates.

Including you.  :wink:

I doubt you'd beat Darian when he's an agility build :D
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: Panos on May 16, 2013, 04:55:33 pm
I doubt you'd beat Darian when he's an agility build :D

I`m open for challenges.
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: Michael on May 16, 2013, 06:15:29 pm
i believe this is just the charm of crpg. it gives you a feeling to play an 'elite' game.

Well, elite GTX was crushed when he was trying to find out whats native duelling all about.

On topic, I would suggest you to use skip the fun and respec a lot.
Do not sign up as a main char, just leave it the way it is. This way you may reassign all the points as often as you want.

Also, keep in mind, the 'goal' of a video game is to have fun; not to be the hero of a community who's members are mostly immature brats or plain stupid. Or simply no lifer assholes.

It doesnt matter how many kills you get or what not.
From my experience, with a skip the fun level 30 char and crap gear it is possible to reach a decent k-d (k>d) but as said above it simply doesnt matter how good you are doing. Let them run around in superior gear and use exploits. Focus on yourself and enjoy the game. So arcade it is, its still fun.

my old friendguts who wanna make the game designed for kids.

Dude, it IS a game designed for kids. Unlike the kid is extremely stupid, it is not necessary to be older than 14 years to understand and master it.
From my experience, when you reach some age in real life, your eyes get worse, your hands get slower, and most of all, you simply dont have the time to sit in front of your computer and push buttons all day.
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: IR_Kuoin on May 16, 2013, 06:29:08 pm
members are mostly immature brats or plain stupid.

Uhm, that's you dude.
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on May 16, 2013, 06:36:54 pm
I don't agree with the OP, but I gave him a + to counter all the negatives he was getting
Title: Re: Make CRPG more forgiving
Post by: Fartface on May 16, 2013, 07:02:07 pm
I love Panos , he´s like that one kid at school that is cool enough to be different.