cRPG

Off Topic => Historical Discussion => Topic started by: Panos on April 23, 2013, 07:25:50 pm

Title: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Panos on April 23, 2013, 07:25:50 pm
24 April, it`s the official day of that black day for the Armenians..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6A1emayyhmI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z9CeLBi64Q

yes...the genocide never happened..
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Armpit_Sweat on April 23, 2013, 07:39:40 pm
24 April, it`s the official day of that black day for the Armenians..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6A1emayyhmI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z9CeLBi64Q

yes...the genocide never happened..

Well, for the sake of argument, if it never happened, why is it in Historical Discussion?

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Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Panos on April 23, 2013, 07:40:35 pm
I was being sarcastic
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Armpit_Sweat on April 25, 2013, 01:43:41 pm
I was being sarcastic

Touché!

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Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: the real god emperor on April 25, 2013, 09:09:06 pm
Panos being Panos again! gl bro
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Elmuri on April 25, 2013, 09:17:41 pm
Actually would be interesting to hear if Turkish people here think it happened or not. Just out of interest and with no hate for the things that happened 100 years ago.
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Ronin on April 26, 2013, 12:29:28 am
I'm Turkish and I have no clue about what has happened.
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Molly on April 26, 2013, 08:15:22 am
Erdogan already said something along the line "Yes, 500k died but it was war." The only thing they argue about really is if it was 1.5 million and if it should be called a Genocide.

Didn't France make it officially a Genocide by law some months ago?
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: the real god emperor on April 26, 2013, 02:06:22 pm
ROFL people thought i was serious
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Miwiw on April 26, 2013, 02:06:45 pm
In the 40's there was war too... so what does that mean now?...
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Prinz_Karl on April 26, 2013, 02:43:27 pm
That kind of Genocide certainly did not happened, and proofless . But you know what, i wouldn't regret if it happened, since Armenians raped pregnant Turkish women and  children and burned people in Kars. Also if Turkish really wanted to Genocide Armenians, there would be no Armenia today! ( wololol )

Worst and most stupid comment if you are serious.
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Paul on April 26, 2013, 02:57:01 pm
I think it's what they are taught in school.
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: the real god emperor on April 26, 2013, 03:02:31 pm
Worst and most stupid comment if you are serious.

Of course i am not serious lol damn.
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Romanji on April 26, 2013, 04:31:02 pm
Hi paul, sorry to stalk you and post on this thread, but could you take a look at my ban please?
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Oberyn on April 26, 2013, 07:13:39 pm
France has historically been one of the biggest armenian diaspora hosts in Europe (behind Russia obviously). There are very few armenians that have directly been born in Armenia (it has been almost a hundred years), but estimates of descendents from the nucleus of armenian political refugees run as high as half a million people . The political stance on the armenian genocide is largely due to this sizeable minority. Not to mention the law was considered unconstitutional in 2012 on a freedom of speech basis and therefore is not a law at all, and never was.
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Ottomans_Guard on May 02, 2013, 12:53:30 pm


Its in German sorry Pano$
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Panos on May 02, 2013, 01:11:13 pm


Its in German sorry Pano$

all 1.5 mil people were terrorists??

Damn those Armenians, terrorizing the innocent Turks  :lol:
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Ottomans_Guard on May 02, 2013, 01:15:43 pm
all 1.5 mil people were terrorists??

Damn those Armenians, terrorizing the innocent Turks  :lol:
[/quote]

Hahahaha clever boy

upps
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: the real god emperor on May 02, 2013, 03:37:54 pm
If you guys dont stop making Turks mad, there will be a Helenic Genocide soon :D
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Panos on May 02, 2013, 03:40:04 pm
If you guys dont stop making Turks mad, there will be a Helenic Genocide soon :D

there were 2 already
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Molly on May 02, 2013, 04:39:25 pm
I'm too lazy to Google it but there surely is some Genocide committed thousands of years ago by Greeks.

*Enter Genocide committed by Greeks here* - DAMN YOU MASS MURDERING GREEKS!

/me shakes fist in anger
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Panos on May 02, 2013, 04:47:25 pm
The Greeks were never responsible for any genocide .

Sorry, not everyone can be like Turkey and Germany  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Ottomans_Guard on May 02, 2013, 06:31:26 pm
The Greeks were never responsible for any genocide .

Sorry, not everyone can be like Turkey and Germany  :rolleyes:

OMG  ..........*Panos Greek Mod is on*

Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Bjord on May 02, 2013, 07:00:20 pm
Turks sacked Greeks twice. A lot of Greeks died. :/

Also, last sacking wasn't even that long ago.
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: [ptx] on May 02, 2013, 07:23:09 pm
Any people that have made considerable conquests in the past are guilty of massacres. Massacres does not mean genocide, though.
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Panos on May 02, 2013, 07:25:09 pm
Any people that have made considerable conquests in the past are guilty of massacres. Massacres does not mean genocide, though.

That applies to chocolate chip cookies aswell, if we go by your logic  :?
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: [ptx] on May 02, 2013, 07:26:05 pm
wot

Errr, try reading that again.
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: zagibu on May 03, 2013, 04:24:02 am
That applies to chocolate chip cookies aswell, if we go by your logic  :?

You obviously don't know what genocide means.
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Paul on May 03, 2013, 12:05:16 pm
Don't try to reason with Panos. He is Panos. At the moment Greece is one of the most ccc countries in Europe though.
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Umbra on May 03, 2013, 12:08:50 pm
What is there to reason? The armenian genocide is a fact
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Panos on May 03, 2013, 12:21:08 pm
Any people that have made considerable conquests in the past are guilty of massacres. Massacres does not mean genocide, though.

A genocide is a specific type of massacre, the massacre of the people has a specific purpose behind it, to do with their ethnic group or religion or colour etc etc

and also as far as I can tell, genocide is systematic while on the other hand massacre is nondiscriminatory, kill anyone and everyone that is around.

Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Butan on May 03, 2013, 02:37:38 pm
I dont know anything about if the Armenian genocide occured or not, what I know is that men can do very bad things.

Then when the deed is too terrible to bear, men try to forget and do like it never occured. Sometimes they even try to say it HAS not happened.

It is hard to live in a country where your parents/grand parents have maybe participated (with their passive/active acceptance) in something that is not right.




But in the end, you are only responsible of your own actions, not those of your fellow countryman, even though you are closer to them than those of other countries. So what if it had happened or not ? The only people who should feel concerned about this are those that died (they dont care anymore) and those that participated in their death.
If you are not one of the latter, the only thing it should teach you is that you have the CHOICE to do or not do such a thing, if in your destiny you will ever have that kind of power.

This is the meaning of history, to try to learn from our past. The rest is only relevant to patriotism which, past a certain point, becomes very stupid.
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Panos on May 03, 2013, 02:42:43 pm
History tends to repeat itself.

And thats why WE never should forgive nor forget such actions
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Bjord on May 03, 2013, 02:48:55 pm
I see your point, Butan, but discussing vile acts of mankind is always healthy as long as you don't go overboard. It's good to condemn the definite bad.
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Araxiel on May 03, 2013, 04:01:09 pm
Greeks did terrible things in the past disguised as poor Turks.
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on May 03, 2013, 04:02:25 pm
This is the meaning of history, to try to learn from our past. The rest is only relevant to patriotism which, past a certain point, becomes very stupid.
History also occasionally has some interesting stories as well.
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: [ptx] on May 03, 2013, 05:44:37 pm
Any people that have made considerable conquests in the past are guilty of massacres. Massacres does not mean genocide, though.
That applies to chocolate chip cookies aswell, if we go by your logic  :?
A genocide is a specific type of massacre, the massacre of the people has a specific purpose behind it, to do with their ethnic group or religion or colour etc etc

and also as far as I can tell, genocide is systematic while on the other hand massacre is nondiscriminatory, kill anyone and everyone that is around.



So... you're doing what exactly? Arguing against yourself? I don't get it... :|
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: zagibu on May 03, 2013, 06:51:35 pm
Nah, he is not stupid. He will of course oppose your arguments to the death, but he is capable of reflection, so they will eventually convince him. I don't know exactly how it works in his head, maybe he is assimilating the arguments as his own ideas, at least this is what a lot of people do.
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Casimir on May 05, 2013, 02:03:26 pm
It's hard to make a concise, logical and reasonable decision when you haven't eaten in three weeks.
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: H4rdn3ssKill3r on May 06, 2013, 06:35:32 pm
I think it's what they are taught in school.
It is.
It's also illegal to say that it was a "genocide" in Turkey.
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: the real god emperor on May 06, 2013, 07:19:19 pm
It is.
It's also illegal to say that it was a "genocide" in Turkey.

It is not illegal :) Don't make statements for things that you re not sure about :)
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: the real god emperor on May 09, 2013, 04:27:54 pm
Okay guys, please do not insta-minus me before reading my text wall.

Panos, after you made a thread about Armenian Genocide in this part of the forum, I was thinking like all other Turkish people, I was denying the genocide - I am still denying it - But I had a feeling like ; "What if it happened?" Then I started to search the Genocide from book which is written by Turkish,French,Armenian,American people - ofc different books - . All of the books saying the same thing at the beginning; everything starts during WW1 , when all Ottoman Forces were in battle, Armenians asked for what is theirs. Like Greeks and Serbians, they were putting up a rebellion. Firstly, It was a little rebellion, really little one. So the government of the OE, didn't care about them so much. Then Armenians made agreements with Russia.When Ottoman Empire loses some land, Armenians were with Rus soldiers, and murdered Turkish people. The idea was a new Armenian country - just like the Megalo Idea - and the only way to make this happen was, forcing Turkish to leave their lands or die.Then, Ottoman forces made their move, they arrested over 2000 Armenians, charge was leading terrorist groups. Then OE wanted to force Armenians to relocate from their homelands - because they were causing lots of troubles -  to Syria.According to Turkish and Armenian Books, 300.000 Armenian died during the Relocation. ACCORDING TO ARMENIAN BOOKS 1.400.000 Turkish died, in Armenian terrorism.Battle ended, but Armenians started their terrorism facts again, this time 15th regiment of OE, as commander Kazım Karabekir Pasha - Who denies Armistice Agreement - pushed Armenian forces out of Anatolia. This time there were no Russia helping Armenians, so Armenians made an agreement with OE, which denies thier claim on Northeast Anatolia, and the mass murder. Yeaaars later, a terrorist organization called Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia - ASALA - claimed the same thing in the WW1. They murdered Turkish ambassadors, commanders, and civillian. 12 years later, this organization lost their activity.Did they? Of course not. They stopped their actions for PKK to act like the same as Kurds - PKK : Partiya Karkerên Kurdistan or Workers Party of Kurdistan - . From 1985 and on, PKK is still active. Armenian and Kurdish people went to government party leaders of big European countries, got IDs there to vote for the leader party again and again. So if the party success , the country would accept the Genocide and stand agains Turkey. - Eg: France . -

Thats all what i learned about the genocide. There are still no proofs of it, but I THINK it never happened. Turkish were Muslims then,the schools were teaching about Islam,Muhammed and Allah. Islam says : You can't kill innocent people, and if you die during battle for your rightful claim, you go to Heaven. Ottoman soldiers must not did that. Also they found graves of people while searching about the genocide. But it belonged to the Muslim Turks.

Please comment after reading and thinking. Do not say: "its illegal to say Ermenian Problem is a genocide in Turkey guys did u know that yeah i know everything because i live there xdxdxd"
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on May 09, 2013, 07:02:38 pm
its illegal to say Ermenian Problem is a genocide in Turkey guys did u know that yeah i know everything because i live there xdxdxd
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Oberyn on May 10, 2013, 01:00:37 am
What interest would french, armenian, russian and american have in condemning anything as "genocide" prior to WW2? The word didn't even exist back then. They were considerered as armenian "pogroms" back then, and very accurately. Why do turks pretend there was no such thing? Ataturk forged the turkish nationality in opposition to the ethnically tolerant Ottoman past. After centuries of trying to minimize the turkic component it reversed fullspeed into the opposite. They tried to eliminate or deport anyone that identified with the ethnicity of "armenian", that is documented. The kurds were just as vicious in their enminity agains the armenians, but does that mean turks had no part in it?
That's completely ignoring that the vast majority of "turks" are basically accultured greek, armenian and kurd ancestry in the first place, with an neglibeable small admixture of east asian steppe genes. I'm not sure why so many turks view that fact as an insult.
From my perspective, as french, the very word we use to identify ourselves comes from the franks, a germanic tribe. Yet genetically we are almost entirely descended from gallo-romans, and even the roman admixture was only had a small impact on the celtic base. The franks themselves were always a vanishingly small minority in the lands they conquered. They addopted the language and customs of the people they ruled. Just like the turks. Yet french people don't view that fact based history as some sort of slight. Heck, even the identity of "french" itself came about relatively late, ignoring the occitan (most important, at least half the country geographically), breton, basque, catalan and even germanic dialects as other languages/ethnicities that comprise the "french" identity.
I know turks love to think of Ataturk as some sort of immaculate saviour, but that is an illusion. He was an extremely intelligent and charismatic fascist dictator. Out of all the fascist dictators of the era he is the closest one to come to "benevolent", but his hands are still incredibly bloody.
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: the real god emperor on May 10, 2013, 12:29:47 pm
Well, the so-called genocide happened in 24 April 1915, thats 8 years before the declaration of Turkish Republic. So Mustafa Kemal has no parts in those "pogroms".Turkish Government says there were no such thing, because there are no proofs of it. If there were, no one could deny it, including me.Mustafa Kemal was a man that graduated from Ottoman Schools, which was studying Jihadism and how to be a good servant to the Sultan . Its hard to think as a secularist man in that garbage.I won't say Mustafa Kemal was a PERFECT man, everybody knows he is not.But there were people who trusted him. After Ottoman Empire screwed up and French,English,Italian,American forces started to occupate Ottoman Lands, Mustafa Kemal and his friends who thinks the same as him, agreed on Misak-ı Milli, -which drawn the borders of current Turkey- And promised themselves to dismiss the foreign forces from Minor Asia.They managed to do this, and they finally declared the Republic. It was the best thing Mustafa Kemal did.He was the best leader of his era.He wasn't a dictator nor fascist, people choose him to be president, he did not even wanted it himself.Also there were no Fascist regime back than, Fascism emerged before WW2, in Italia. Mustafa Kemal was hardly nationalist, but not fascist. The Armenian Problem is still continues , also there is Kurdish Problem now, thats happening because Turkey is still a Multi-Nationed country.We got Armenian,Kurdish,Circassian,Georgian minorities living in Turkey.All people are free in Turkey but they are searching "freedom" in the wrong side. And when Turkey reacts these kind of situations, its considered as violence. I do not support our current government but this is the truth.My point is, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk and his friends saved the Turkish people from a violent end , and gave freedom to everyone.He smoked,was a drunk,never married.But he did what was right, and it worked really.

Today, nearly all Asian nations are carrying Turkic blood, and Turks are carrying nearly all Asians blood.Let me show you the Turkic world map;

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Christo on May 11, 2013, 03:11:00 am
What the hell?

Bulgaristan?

Magaristan?

That is just damn weird.

Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: zagibu on May 11, 2013, 07:26:26 am
Stan just means "country", so, country of the Bulgari, country of the Magari, etc.
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Christo on May 11, 2013, 07:48:38 am
Yeah yeah but still.

That is mostly used for middle-eastern countries, not for europe.

It sounds very offensive in a way if you think of the Ottoman Empire's former borders and look at the name of the countries on the other side..
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Gnjus on May 11, 2013, 11:46:03 am
Gökdeniz Karadeniz ftw.
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Butan on May 11, 2013, 02:13:30 pm
This topic is interesting and made me do some research.


That is mostly used for middle-eastern countries, not for europe.


Its used by people from middle-eastern, like Turkey, who conquered all those countries under the Ottoman Empire, its only normal that they label it differently (could be seen as a "its still a part of our empire" or just "we know them").



Well, the so-called genocide happened in 24 April 1915, thats 8 years before the declaration of Turkish Republic. So Mustafa Kemal has no parts in those "pogroms".Turkish Government says there were no such thing, because there are no proofs of it.

Whatever happened, it was under the Ottoman Empire that it happened, like you just said in the quote.
Why does the people of the republic of Turkey still feel concerned about an event that happened in the era of the Ottoman Empire?


Quote
300.000 Armenian died during the Relocation. ACCORDING TO ARMENIAN BOOKS 1.400.000 Turkish died, in Armenian terrorism.

You use the "terrorism" word when the Turkish people dies.  How were they killed ? Suicide bomb ? Or army against army ?
And then 300.000 people die during the Relocation. They died in what circonstances ?

I think both the genocide term and the terrorist term are wrongly used here.

The armenian people tried to reform the Great-Armenia around its historical golden age border for a long time, and it caused tension with Ottoman Empire/Turkey and Russia for centuries.
Both countries tried to keep control of their population and keeping their nation strong.
It was rebels/civilian against the Sultan and the Tzar.
It happened hundreds of times, in hundreds of countries, in all history, under hundreds of motives and words: the strong killed the weak (pogroms, pillages, war, extermination, massacre, slaughter, battles, cleaning, murder, civil war, etc...).
It still happens today, in the modern era, under other words. See whats happening in some African countries, in Palestine/Israel, Georgia/Tchetchenia... Nothing new here, nor to be ashamed of, we are what we are.



Then, another question; how do you explain your numbers : 1.400.000 dead on Turkish side, 300.000 on Armenian side.
Armenia wasnt in control of the Ottoman Empire government and regular forces and had a civilation population of a few millions.
Ottoman Empire had the gov + the army.

How did they killed 5 times more army/civilian than they lost rebels/civilian ?
It would mean almost each Armenian killed one Turk. Something is wrong here.
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: the real god emperor on May 11, 2013, 08:45:51 pm
This topic is interesting and made me do some research.



Its used by people from middle-eastern, like Turkey, who conquered all those countries under the Ottoman Empire, its only normal that they label it differently (could be seen as a "its still a part of our empire" or just "we know them").



Whatever happened, it was under the Ottoman Empire that it happened, like you just said in the quote.
Why does the people of the republic of Turkey still feel concerned about an event that happened in the era of the Ottoman Empire?


You use the "terrorism" word when the Turkish people dies.  How were they killed ? Suicide bomb ? Or army against army ?
And then 300.000 people die during the Relocation. They died in what circonstances ?

I think both the genocide term and the terrorist term are wrongly used here.

The armenian people tried to reform the Great-Armenia around its historical golden age border for a long time, and it caused tension with Ottoman Empire/Turkey and Russia for centuries.
Both countries tried to keep control of their population and keeping their nation strong.
It was rebels/civilian against the Sultan and the Tzar.
It happened hundreds of times, in hundreds of countries, in all history, under hundreds of motives and words: the strong killed the weak (pogroms, pillages, war, extermination, massacre, slaughter, battles, cleaning, murder, civil war, etc...).
It still happens today, in the modern era, under other words. See whats happening in some African countries, in Palestine/Israel, Georgia/Tchetchenia... Nothing new here, nor to be ashamed of, we are what we are.



Then, another question; how do you explain your numbers : 1.400.000 dead on Turkish side, 300.000 on Armenian side.
Armenia wasnt in control of the Ottoman Empire government and regular forces and had a civilation population of a few millions.
Ottoman Empire had the gov + the army.

How did they killed 5 times more army/civilian than they lost rebels/civilian ?
It would mean almost each Armenian killed one Turk. Something is wrong here.

First of all, "-İstan" means "realm", non like English, in our language, we dont call people as where they live. Eg : Italia , Italian , we do the opposite. Eg : Macar (Hungarian) Macaristan ( Hungarian Realm )- ( The country with Hungarian people ) or Hırvat ( Croatian ) Hırvatistan ( Croatian Realm ) Yunan ( Greek ) Yunanistan ( Greek Realm ) etc...

-Why does the people of the republic of Turkey still feel concerned about an event that happened in the era of the Ottoman Empire?

+Because there is an international agreement about punishments of genocides, which can be money or land, so Armenians claiming Northwestern Turkey , and blaming us with a Genocide.

-You use the "terrorism" word when the Turkish people dies.  How were they killed ? Suicide bomb ? Or army against army ?
And then 300.000 people die during the Relocation. They died in what circonstances ?

+I used the terrorism word because, during WW1, Ottoman Empire screwed up , Russia was one of the biggest enemies ofc -until Bolsheviks- , and Armenians were with Russians, whenever Russia captures somewhere in Minor-Asia; Armenians came with them and "slaughtered" people, slaughter, because they did not see any difference between people and dogs.When Armenians wanted to open graves to prove the Genocide, researchers only found Turkish graves.When Bolsheviks came to the power in Russia, and removed "Tzarship" , Russia made an agreement with Ottoman Empire - peace agr. - then Russia removed their forces from Minor Asia. Then OE made their move, and broke Armenian rebellion, arrested or killed armed rebels.Then as precaution, they wanted to relocate civillian Armenians to Syria, 300.000 people died from diseases, cold , sickness , or terrorist attacks ( Thats what the current government of Turkey says, they dont have an official thesis about the Genocide yet, so they use this words for it.No one can be sure, they may be killed 300.000 Armenian, or what they say can be the truth ) . If you count babies and civillian, i think 1.400.000 is a fair count.

Also thanks for asking and commenting impartially!
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Christo on May 12, 2013, 01:09:49 am
Its used by people from middle-eastern, like Turkey, who conquered all those countries under the Ottoman Empire, its only normal that they label it differently (could be seen as a "its still a part of our empire" or just "we know them").

That sounds offensive like hell.

We are not part of your "empire".

It's not the 16th century any more.
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Butan on May 12, 2013, 01:13:50 am
Golden Age nostalgia gets everyone  :P

But seems like I was wrong anyway, Kratos answered your question.
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Lars on May 12, 2013, 08:57:39 am
That sounds offensive like hell.

We are not part of your "empire".

It's not the 16th century any more.


Hello Mr.Christo, how is the weather in Hungarystan today?  :twisted:


(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Christo on May 12, 2013, 09:36:00 am

Hello Mr.Christo, how is the weather in Hungarystan today?  :twisted:


(click to show/hide)

Hehe.

Really two-sided, yesterday it was much more dramatic, basically on the western side you got some rain, dark clouds, and 12-3c.
On the eastern side it's bright and very sunny, up to 30c.

Right now it's much more chill. Like it.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Araxiel on May 12, 2013, 10:15:23 am
WE never conquered. WE liberated. Mighty Ottoman Empire will return and will save you all from tyranny. Rest assured people of -stans.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: the real god emperor on May 12, 2013, 10:32:07 am
WE never conquered. WE liberated. Mighty Ottoman Empire will return and will save you all from tyranny. Rest assured people of -stans.
(click to show/hide)
PRAISE THE SULTAN
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Casimir on May 12, 2013, 02:59:43 pm
WE never conquered. WE liberated. Mighty Ottoman Empire will return and will save you all from tyranny. Rest assured people of -stans.
(click to show/hide)

Great Britainstan awaits the mighty liberation forces.
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: bredeus on May 12, 2013, 03:22:44 pm
First deal with Potatoes
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Leshma on May 15, 2013, 01:54:50 am
That sounds offensive like hell.

We are not part of your "empire".

It's not the 16th century any more.

Turks still call us Serbistan. I find it cute.

Quote
The armenian people tried to reform the Great-Armenia around its historical golden age border for a long time, and it caused tension with Ottoman Empire/Turkey and Russia for centuries.
Both countries tried to keep control of their population and keeping their nation strong.
It was rebels/civilian against the Sultan and the Tzar.
It happened hundreds of times, in hundreds of countries, in all history, under hundreds of motives and words: the strong killed the weak (pogroms, pillages, war, extermination, massacre, slaughter, battles, cleaning, murder, civil war, etc...).
It still happens today, in the modern era, under other words. See whats happening in some African countries, in Palestine/Israel, Georgia/Tchetchenia... Nothing new here, nor to be ashamed of, we are what we are.

Exactly. Same thing almost happened on Kosovo, but before Serbia managed to "deal" with terrorists (from Serbian point of view, they consider themselves as freedom fighters), NATO (USA) "intervened" (tactical bombing). After that Serbians fled from Kosovo because they knew their country has no power over that land. Before bombing there were mass graves filled with Albanians, after the bombing many Serbs were killed (Albanians too but we don't hear about it in the news).

It's always about bigger fish eating smaller fish. You can try to make a moral story out of it and make someone look better than the others, but beneath the civilized facade humans still are animals and that shows in every war.

Kosovo "incident" went this way: at first Serbia was a bigger fish and Kosovo Abanians smaller fish, then came the shark (NATO) and former big fish fled the scene. Smaller fish tagged along with the shark and is now a victor. Prime minister of Kosovo is terrorist leader or freedom fighter or revolutionary or whatever  you want to call him. But his true calling is a killer, just like most national leaders in human history.
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Oberyn on May 15, 2013, 07:07:01 am
I find it particularly ironic when you consider how pissed off so many turks get when you call Istanbul "Constantinople".
And no, the whole point of the information age is that war is very, very different from the way it used to be. The whole "strong defeat the weak, no shame attached to it" is of course still true, but it is buried under a ton of fake justifications. Being weak and victimized is now a moral highground, when it used to be...well, a weakness. I mean, Israel/Palestine? If your interpretation was true, Palestine would have ceased to exist decades ago. The israelis could drive out all palestianians out of "greater Israel" tommorow if strength was the only factor. Israel knows this of course, which is why their ethnic cleansings are extremely slow and guarlanded with bullshit justifications of "security".   
Of course most of the justifications for modern wars is pure theater. NATO could never have intervened if the plain truth about Kosovo (i.e it was ethnic cleansing warfare all around, with no moral high ground) was known. You needed poor opressed "innocent" albanians and evil racist serbs for the story to work. War is all about the "story" these days. The serb's biggest mistake was how honest they were about their intentions. If they had done it israeli style they would probably control Kosovo today and albanians of the region would be in a highly militarized ghetto controlled by them. 

Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: the real god emperor on May 15, 2013, 10:37:22 am

I find it particularly ironic when you consider how pissed off so many turks get when you call Istanbul "Constantinople".


The people you mention are completely idiots. Who the hell cares if someone calls a city with another name?  :lol:
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Ronin on May 15, 2013, 05:40:03 pm
As a citizen of Istanbul/Constantinople, I use both.
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: zagibu on May 15, 2013, 08:49:58 pm
It's always about bigger fish eating smaller fish. You can try to make a moral story out of it and make someone look better than the others, but beneath the civilized facade humans still are animals and that shows in every war.

Animals don't wage war. Please don't make unfair comparisons here.
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Butan on May 16, 2013, 01:59:40 am
Whats the difference though? instead of small clan-tribes of animals, we have ethnicity/countries/political entities/nationalities.
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Leshma on May 16, 2013, 03:24:08 pm
Nature has arranged that most animals have counterparts and it wasn't possible for one specie to dominate all others. Until nature "gave birth" to human race. If you look closely at our behavior, we're more like viruses. There really isn't any greater goal for humans other than reproducing and spreading. Evolution helps us to achieve that goal.

Human being, the most complex virus on earth which isn't infecting any particular living organism. Planet earth is our host.
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Panos on May 16, 2013, 03:27:06 pm
There really isn't any greater goal for humans other than reproducing and spreading. Evolution helps us to achieve that goal.

All animals reproduce and spread, not only humans, the difference between humans and other animals, is that we evolved into smart living beings.
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Gnjus on May 16, 2013, 04:19:43 pm
we evolved into smart living beings.

That is highly questionable.  :wink:

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Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Oberyn on May 16, 2013, 04:25:39 pm
Leshma by that interpretation all life is a "virus". Like Panos says, the only difference is humans are just much, much better at it than all other lifeforms. We're still beholden to "nature" in many ways, but our greatest glory is in trying to escape the darwinian wheelhouse that all other life on earth is shackled by. Everything that is considered progress, not only in material manipulation (agriculture, domestication, science in general) but also in politics/social terms, is directly opposed to what is "natural". I can't stand neo-malthusian misanthropic hippies who embrace appeal to nature fallacies. Natural =/= good. When people start making arguments along those lines it makes me want to chuck them in the Amazon on their own with no other human help.

edit: Also many, many species have come to dominate over others, and then disappeared, or evolved down a different path. Nature is not in a constant state of perfect equilibrium. It is a chaotic war of life that is never stable, if you take a long enough view. The entire history of humanity is barely a blip when you consider the emergence of life in general.
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Leshma on May 16, 2013, 05:18:23 pm
Don't blame me for that theory, blame Agent Smith :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: zagibu on May 17, 2013, 01:31:07 am
Leshma by that interpretation all life is a "virus". Like Panos says, the only difference is humans are just much, much better at it than all other lifeforms. We're still beholden to "nature" in many ways, but our greatest glory is in trying to escape the darwinian wheelhouse that all other life on earth is shackled by. Everything that is considered progress, not only in material manipulation (agriculture, domestication, science in general) but also in politics/social terms, is directly opposed to what is "natural". I can't stand neo-malthusian misanthropic hippies who embrace appeal to nature fallacies. Natural =/= good. When people start making arguments along those lines it makes me want to chuck them in the Amazon on their own with no other human help.

edit: Also many, many species have come to dominate over others, and then disappeared, or evolved down a different path. Nature is not in a constant state of perfect equilibrium. It is a chaotic war of life that is never stable, if you take a long enough view. The entire history of humanity is barely a blip when you consider the emergence of life in general.

While what you say is certainly true, Leshma's point of view is not wrong either. Since mankind is on this planet, the amount of different species of animals and plants living on the planet has plummeted rapidly. The total amount of living beings has plummeted as well, because we transform diverse biosystems like forests into lakes of concrete or seas of wheat and corn. And last but not least we're hard at work poisoning the water we drink and the air we breathe.
Title: Re: Armenian Genocide.
Post by: Leshma on May 18, 2013, 01:11:30 am
All animals reproduce and spread, not only humans, the difference between humans and other animals, is that we evolved into smart living beings.


Are they dumb for eating the shit we produce or are we dumb for producing that shit no one on earth except us has any use of?