Armenian Genocide.

[Panos]

Any people that have made considerable conquests in the past are guilty of massacres. Massacres does not mean genocide, though.

A genocide is a specific type of massacre, the massacre of the people has a specific purpose behind it, to do with their ethnic group or religion or colour etc etc

and also as far as I can tell, genocide is systematic while on the other hand massacre is nondiscriminatory, kill anyone and everyone that is around.

[Butan]

I dont know anything about if the Armenian genocide occured or not, what I know is that men can do very bad things.

Then when the deed is too terrible to bear, men try to forget and do like it never occured. Sometimes they even try to say it HAS not happened.

It is hard to live in a country where your parents/grand parents have maybe participated (with their passive/active acceptance) in something that is not right.




But in the end, you are only responsible of your own actions, not those of your fellow countryman, even though you are closer to them than those of other countries. So what if it had happened or not ? The only people who should feel concerned about this are those that died (they dont care anymore) and those that participated in their death.
If you are not one of the latter, the only thing it should teach you is that you have the CHOICE to do or not do such a thing, if in your destiny you will ever have that kind of power.

This is the meaning of history, to try to learn from our past. The rest is only relevant to patriotism which, past a certain point, becomes very stupid.

[Panos]

History tends to repeat itself.

And thats why WE never should forgive nor forget such actions

[Bjord]

I see your point, Butan, but discussing vile acts of mankind is always healthy as long as you don't go overboard. It's good to condemn the definite bad.

[Araxiel]

Greeks did terrible things in the past disguised as poor Turks.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

This is the meaning of history, to try to learn from our past. The rest is only relevant to patriotism which, past a certain point, becomes very stupid.

History also occasionally has some interesting stories as well.

[[ptx]]

Any people that have made considerable conquests in the past are guilty of massacres. Massacres does not mean genocide, though.

That applies to chocolate chip cookies aswell, if we go by your logic 

A genocide is a specific type of massacre, the massacre of the people has a specific purpose behind it, to do with their ethnic group or religion or colour etc etc

and also as far as I can tell, genocide is systematic while on the other hand massacre is nondiscriminatory, kill anyone and everyone that is around.

So... you're doing what exactly? Arguing against yourself? I don't get it...

[zagibu]

Nah, he is not stupid. He will of course oppose your arguments to the death, but he is capable of reflection, so they will eventually convince him. I don't know exactly how it works in his head, maybe he is assimilating the arguments as his own ideas, at least this is what a lot of people do.

[Casimir]

It's hard to make a concise, logical and reasonable decision when you haven't eaten in three weeks.

[H4rdn3ssKill3r]

I think it's what they are taught in school.

It is.
It's also illegal to say that it was a "genocide" in Turkey.

[the real god emperor]

It is.
It's also illegal to say that it was a "genocide" in Turkey.

It is not illegal Don't make statements for things that you re not sure about

[the real god emperor]

Okay guys, please do not insta-minus me before reading my text wall.

Panos, after you made a thread about Armenian Genocide in this part of the forum, I was thinking like all other Turkish people, I was denying the genocide - I am still denying it - But I had a feeling like ; "What if it happened?" Then I started to search the Genocide from book which is written by Turkish,French,Armenian,American people - ofc different books - . All of the books saying the same thing at the beginning; everything starts during WW1 , when all Ottoman Forces were in battle, Armenians asked for what is theirs. Like Greeks and Serbians, they were putting up a rebellion. Firstly, It was a little rebellion, really little one. So the government of the OE, didn't care about them so much. Then Armenians made agreements with Russia.When Ottoman Empire loses some land, Armenians were with Rus soldiers, and murdered Turkish people. The idea was a new Armenian country - just like the Megalo Idea - and the only way to make this happen was, forcing Turkish to leave their lands or die.Then, Ottoman forces made their move, they arrested over 2000 Armenians, charge was leading terrorist groups. Then OE wanted to force Armenians to relocate from their homelands - because they were causing lots of troubles -  to Syria.According to Turkish and Armenian Books, 300.000 Armenian died during the Relocation. ACCORDING TO ARMENIAN BOOKS 1.400.000 Turkish died, in Armenian terrorism.Battle ended, but Armenians started their terrorism facts again, this time 15th regiment of OE, as commander Kazım Karabekir Pasha - Who denies Armistice Agreement - pushed Armenian forces out of Anatolia. This time there were no Russia helping Armenians, so Armenians made an agreement with OE, which denies thier claim on Northeast Anatolia, and the mass murder. Yeaaars later, a terrorist organization called Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia - ASALA - claimed the same thing in the WW1. They murdered Turkish ambassadors, commanders, and civillian. 12 years later, this organization lost their activity.Did they? Of course not. They stopped their actions for PKK to act like the same as Kurds - PKK : Partiya Karkerên Kurdistan or Workers Party of Kurdistan - . From 1985 and on, PKK is still active. Armenian and Kurdish people went to government party leaders of big European countries, got IDs there to vote for the leader party again and again. So if the party success , the country would accept the Genocide and stand agains Turkey. - Eg: France . -

Thats all what i learned about the genocide. There are still no proofs of it, but I THINK it never happened. Turkish were Muslims then,the schools were teaching about Islam,Muhammed and Allah. Islam says : You can't kill innocent people, and if you die during battle for your rightful claim, you go to Heaven. Ottoman soldiers must not did that. Also they found graves of people while searching about the genocide. But it belonged to the Muslim Turks.

Please comment after reading and thinking. Do not say: "its illegal to say Ermenian Problem is a genocide in Turkey guys did u know that yeah i know everything because i live there xdxdxd"

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

its illegal to say Ermenian Problem is a genocide in Turkey guys did u know that yeah i know everything because i live there xdxdxd

[Oberyn]

What interest would french, armenian, russian and american have in condemning anything as "genocide" prior to WW2? The word didn't even exist back then. They were considerered as armenian "pogroms" back then, and very accurately. Why do turks pretend there was no such thing? Ataturk forged the turkish nationality in opposition to the ethnically tolerant Ottoman past. After centuries of trying to minimize the turkic component it reversed fullspeed into the opposite. They tried to eliminate or deport anyone that identified with the ethnicity of "armenian", that is documented. The kurds were just as vicious in their enminity agains the armenians, but does that mean turks had no part in it?
That's completely ignoring that the vast majority of "turks" are basically accultured greek, armenian and kurd ancestry in the first place, with an neglibeable small admixture of east asian steppe genes. I'm not sure why so many turks view that fact as an insult.
From my perspective, as french, the very word we use to identify ourselves comes from the franks, a germanic tribe. Yet genetically we are almost entirely descended from gallo-romans, and even the roman admixture was only had a small impact on the celtic base. The franks themselves were always a vanishingly small minority in the lands they conquered. They addopted the language and customs of the people they ruled. Just like the turks. Yet french people don't view that fact based history as some sort of slight. Heck, even the identity of "french" itself came about relatively late, ignoring the occitan (most important, at least half the country geographically), breton, basque, catalan and even germanic dialects as other languages/ethnicities that comprise the "french" identity.
I know turks love to think of Ataturk as some sort of immaculate saviour, but that is an illusion. He was an extremely intelligent and charismatic fascist dictator. Out of all the fascist dictators of the era he is the closest one to come to "benevolent", but his hands are still incredibly bloody.

[the real god emperor]

Well, the so-called genocide happened in 24 April 1915, thats 8 years before the declaration of Turkish Republic. So Mustafa Kemal has no parts in those "pogroms".Turkish Government says there were no such thing, because there are no proofs of it. If there were, no one could deny it, including me.Mustafa Kemal was a man that graduated from Ottoman Schools, which was studying Jihadism and how to be a good servant to the Sultan . Its hard to think as a secularist man in that garbage.I won't say Mustafa Kemal was a PERFECT man, everybody knows he is not.But there were people who trusted him. After Ottoman Empire screwed up and French,English,Italian,American forces started to occupate Ottoman Lands, Mustafa Kemal and his friends who thinks the same as him, agreed on Misak-ı Milli, -which drawn the borders of current Turkey- And promised themselves to dismiss the foreign forces from Minor Asia.They managed to do this, and they finally declared the Republic. It was the best thing Mustafa Kemal did.He was the best leader of his era.He wasn't a dictator nor fascist, people choose him to be president, he did not even wanted it himself.Also there were no Fascist regime back than, Fascism emerged before WW2, in Italia. Mustafa Kemal was hardly nationalist, but not fascist. The Armenian Problem is still continues , also there is Kurdish Problem now, thats happening because Turkey is still a Multi-Nationed country.We got Armenian,Kurdish,Circassian,Georgian minorities living in Turkey.All people are free in Turkey but they are searching "freedom" in the wrong side. And when Turkey reacts these kind of situations, its considered as violence. I do not support our current government but this is the truth.My point is, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk and his friends saved the Turkish people from a violent end , and gave freedom to everyone.He smoked,was a drunk,never married.But he did what was right, and it worked really.

Today, nearly all Asian nations are carrying Turkic blood, and Turks are carrying nearly all Asians blood.Let me show you the Turkic world map;

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