cRPG
cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Joxer on May 02, 2011, 08:08:32 pm
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My judgement is that the normal pike is far superior. Long pike is too slow to be a good anti-cav weapon. Many times you barely have enough time to turn and face an incoming cav. God forbid you kill a horse and the rider survives. Then you're certainly screwed. At least with the normal pike you have some decent melee possibility. Only use I can think for this is to form pike walls on tight spaces. It's ok as a support weapon in melee but still slowness makes that more difficult than with a normal pike. The extra reach isn't worth the speed penalty imo.
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The fact that it takes up three slots just kills it for me. Of course, I didn't know this until I bought it. So annoying.
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The fact that it takes up three slots just kills it for me. Of course, I didn't know this until I bought it. So annoying.
Hmm, so it enforces the traditional Pikeman look. (Weapon-wise.)
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That's not bad, imo.
But I had no time to test the weapon, yet.
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Thw weapon has a length of 280, what did you expect? To have amazing speed?
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The whole point is that the extra lenght isn't worth the penalties vs. normal pike.
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The whole point is that the extra lenght isn't worth the penalties vs. normal pike.
Untrue.
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true.
There. Fixed.
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I actually really dig this weapon. Able to break a door over my teammates heads in siege, stay way back in any battle while knocking opponents off balance. I got four kills and dismounted several riders with this thing in a single life as a level 12, supporting a group of people. Will definitely continue using this.
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The long pike shines in formation and close team play.
In loose team play the pike is better. Yes, you are right.
I lobbied hard to get [a] long pike added with thrust only as a pike would be, and I am glad to see it. Even I don't use it usually, there is a good time and place for it though.
Exactly as a pike was and should be.
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Yeah except anything the long pike does the normal pike does better :D
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Yeah except anything the long pike does the normal pike does better :D
Except formation. You can have a three rank deep formation and still hit someone who gets right next to the front rank of shielders.
And you know, just normal 2 rank combat but you can have more long pikes hit a single target if it attacks a lone, or hit it from further, etc, etc.
Like I said, tight formations it is better. Loose formations/ generic teamplay, regular pike is better.
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Longpike will be a godsend for teams who use proper formations in Strat, however, in pub play it's not worth using.
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Longpike will be a godsend for teams who use proper formations in Strat, however, in pub play it's not worth using.
Unless you play with your clan ofc. Doh!
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I've found the long pike perfect for those situations where your enemy is hiding on the other side of a barn and you're too lazy to move closer to them.
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Unless you play with your clan ofc. Doh!
Duh~ ;)
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Except formation. You can have a three rank deep formation and still hit someone who gets right next to the front rank of shielders.
And you know, just normal 2 rank combat but you can have more long pikes hit a single target if it attacks a lone, or hit it from further, etc, etc.
Like I said, tight formations it is better. Loose formations/ generic teamplay, regular pike is better.
so for formations what is the best way to avoid attacking teammates in the back.
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so for formations what is the best way to avoid attacking teammates in the back.
Stop spamming. Use side slashes only if you are on the side. Use only thrusts if you are in the middle. Overhand with polearms if you are in the back. Cancel your attack if there is even a small chance you might miss.
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only time i have been killed by long pike as cav was when some1 used it as lance...
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Stop spamming. Use side slashes only if you are on the side. Use only thrusts if you are in the middle. Overhand with polearms if you are in the back. Cancel your attack if there is even a small chance you might miss.
This.
Also, don't side step. Don't you dare move side to side in any close formation. all footwork is subtle rotating and slow movement or of the entire formation.
long pikes can thrust over your team and bring it down on enemies, too. Similar to the overhand thrust used in actual phalanxes.
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only time i have been killed by long pike as cav was when some1 used it as lance...
Wait what? You can't use it on horseback... :?
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Some ppl can :D
In my opinion long pike reach is not that greater than of pike, with so less speed and damage. I did like it but pike is still superior to it. If requirement would be lowered to at least 12 so you could use it with 9Ath that would cancel out its downfalls.
and it has that nasty cool down period after you hit shield with it, maybe it's because of it's low speed.
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Some ppl can :D
In my opinion long pike reach is not that greater than of pike, with so less speed and damage. I did like it but pike is still superior to it. If requirement would be lowered to at least 12 so you could use it with 9Ath that would cancel out its downfalls.
and it has that nasty cool down period after you hit shield with it, maybe it's because of it's low speed.
That is due to low speed.
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Sounds like the long pike might possibly be useful in battle servers for being able to protect a wider swath of allies from flanking cav. But it may only be good at getting the horse to rear up, though not nearly as good for actually killing the horse once you've stopped it, compared to the normal pike.
I think if this thing takes 3 slots, it should at least be clearly better in its anti-cav role. Maybe at least give it equal damage compared to the pike. With its slow speed and the lack of overhead attack, I think it will be very hard to say that it's as good vs infantry as the normal pike, even when ignoring the lower damage and 3 slot usage. But maybe with equal damage, it might be worth it for support role of protecting the line from cav.
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The long pike is really like some sort of ranged weapon. You can't defend yourself at all with it, so I don't really think I'm gonna use it on my piker alt (soon to be doubleclassed lancer as 1h cav is dead now, I will keep Kafein for historical purposes) on foot. The pike has just enough range and has all the marvelous properties of the bugged hitboxes. For example, an overhead will NEVER hit any ally in front of you, but will with people behind :rolleyes:. Aiming slightly at the left of an ally will usually strike him although the weapon didn't touched the player model. To the right, you can hit through your mates. I'm trying to aim for heads again (I played piker a long long long time ago so I forgot everything...).
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(...) 1h cav is dead now (...)
Wait, what? Did i miss something? I was playing my 1h cav guy a lot two nights ago with great success. What are you talking about?
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Wait, what? Did i miss something? I was playing my 1h cav guy a lot two nights ago with great success. What are you talking about?
Dunno. As far as I know 1h/cav didn't get nerfed in any other way the other classes have been nerfed.
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For some reason cav even easily survives pike\long pike hits. With 6PS I've managed to 1hit\dehorse cav only in "perfect" circumstances. Btw, this is another con of long pike, mostly you only stop cav, then you still need to make several hit to dehorse him and it's much much easier to do with a pike then a long pike, too often they would easily block your second stab and just gallop away.
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For some reason cav even easily survives pike\long pike hits. With 6PS I've managed to 1hit\dehorse cav only in "perfect" circumstances. Btw, this is another con of long pike, mostly you only stop cav, then you still need to make several hit to dehorse him and it's much much easier to do with a pike then a long pike, too often they would easily block your second stab and just gallop away.
By "perfect circumstances" you mean using the speed bonus of the horse against himself ? If so, its normal that its the only time you can OS/dehorse due to the rather low damage output of pike and the rather high horse's hit points.
If the horse is going away from you, the speed becomes a malus (even if it goes parallel to you you could only stop it for a short while except if the horse is already wounded).
Except in perfect situation then, even the normal pike is hardly enough to outright kill a cav: you need support in most case.
But as a cav I can tell you that the role of a pike is more about area denial and protecting people than killing, even if it can happen (mostly when a cav fall in a trap, ganking and/or noob killing).
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Oh yeah, the area denial is what makes pike useful vs cav.
Higher athletics means that area is larger, whether the cav knows it or not.
And higher powerstrike means it can just down most cav and infantry in 1 or 2 pokes.
Currently building a 10 PS pikeman. It works well.
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I'm not sure what to do with heirloom respec now. On the other hand I love to help inf out with MW pike when I can. On the other hand I cant melee. So if I were to switch over to heirloomed long pike I might be able to take down some horsies. Problem with that is that if the rider survives I'm doomed. AARRRGGHHH :twisted:
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Yup pike is usable on horse as a bug, but pretty useless since youll miss in close combat.
I'm wondering what to heirloom too, maybe loom my plated charger after this heavy lance bullshit.
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Tried it a few rounds, I really feel it will take me A LOT of time to adapt to the long pike. So I won't probably do it. Furthermore, the overhead swing is really useful (it's impossible to teamhit someone in front of you with it)
Wait, what? Did i miss something? I was playing my 1h cav guy a lot two nights ago with great success. What are you talking about?
Well, I guess it's me raging after a few horrible rounds surrounded by gay lancers everywhere.
But seriously, the proportion of lancers and 1h cav is just absurdly imbalanced towards lance. There's a reason. I had the hope the patch would fix this. In fact the patch itself solved the lancer problem, but the hotfix after it made it worse than it was before. Now I'm unable to bring a heavy lance as a side arm versus cavalry with me. cav vs cav with 1h is possible but not proper (loosing shield and horse HP for very risky kills isn't really what I want).
So I think I will do better by going lancer. My 1h doesn't seem as powerful as before (it lost 2c, not really a problem but sometimes I feel the difference), and I really like the piker role. So I'm doing a pure polearm dude with 15/21, a shitload of ath, riding and wm. I can actually spam the pike thrust and often people don't even block the second attack because the attacks looks incredibly slow, but really aren't.
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Well, if lance would be able to break (like in 1257 ad mod), then lances would be an additional weapon to 1h or 2h cav build. Not a primary weapon like they are used right now.