cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Mlekce on February 24, 2013, 07:05:11 pm
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srsly do something about this shit. Not funny anymore.
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today in 2 strategus battles almost all of enemy players had some sort of spear making it unplayable for cavalry. I played 1 battle on horseback but in second i was forced to dismount of my stallion and fight on foot.
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dude i am on eu1 now and 70% of players have spear with shield or longspear and all of them instastab. Not funny at all.
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Nerf downblock. Downblock OP.
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might wanna start with your own clan then Mlekce :P
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I'm going to do some hoplite stuff once I reach lvl 34. I'd imagine even only 3 shield skill will be useful in strategus fights.
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today in 2 strategus battles almost all of enemy players had some sort of spear making it unplayable for cavalry. I played 1 battle on horseback but in second i was forced to dismount of my stallion and fight on foot.
Guess it's called adaption. After having the cavalry roflstomp everything with heavy horses and heavy armour in previous battles, they went with a logical counter; spears.
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And that will last until everyone is Xbow or Archer on a horse. Then there will be no weaknesses.
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ive always threatened to respec all the kokd to horse xbow.
no build can troll better.
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My problem with spear users or hoplites is not the cav part. They're meant to be anti-cav, that's ok. My problem with them is that some hoplites/spear users are even able to spam... Also the ridiculous hitboxes.
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I'm by no means a "good" player. But hell, even I can point blank stab with my spear.
Usually, the better players can abuse the game mechanics, making it appear "skill based", like lolstabs, bendy pikes etc.
It's very annoying to get close to a hoplite, your brain tells you you're inside his range, and too close for him to do anything but glance. But no, he'll spin stab or sI love youtab or ground stab. It's really annoying
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There are a lot of hoplites and spearmen in strat battles lately, but I don't think there's anything that should or would need to be done about it. They are able to do relatively well against a more standard enemy infantry (1h/shield, 2h's and a few pikes/spears), and are able to consistently keep enemy cavalry from doing large damage to their flanks. But at the end of the day, these hoplite armies are losing the 1 on 1 battle against the more standard infantry formations.
It's all adaptation, and I think it's excellent to see. Being cavalry it is certainly frustrating having 10 of your cavalry try to dodge and weave into the enemy infantry flanks only to get skewered mercilessly, but I enjoy seeing armies adapt (just like IRL) and trying different strategies and tactics for success.
Anyone who complains about the enemy doing something logical (using pokey things to stop horses) can suck my dick, and this is coming from a fellow dedicated cavalry player. Stop crying, and adapt to the hoplites (as they have done for cavalry).
Crying on the forums about legitimate tactics and classes needs to stop, and the dev's need to stop listening to these fucks.
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Nerf hoplite threads......love it!
This means ill have more hoplite buddies to play with, since crpg crowd loves doing whatever is "OP"
Let's be honest.....hoplites are just glorified team players. This is a good thing for crpg.
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I was Hoplite long before the Hoplite buff because I got sick of getting shot by archers and got sick of the easy mode cavalry bumping and lancing me to death, also because I like to teamplay and as a hoplite I didn't get much kills but helped the Kuyak heroes get kills by sticking with them and stabbing whoever they fought or stopped that cav from backstabbing them.
It's not the Hoplites that are OP, it's teamwork. If you are fighting more than one hoplites on your own then maybe your team did something terribly wrong. If a hoplite kills you on his own, then just shame on you, learn2downblock.
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srsly do something about this shit. Not funny anymore.
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Block down. (c) Someone
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visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Block down. (c) Someone
good one, but what mlecke says is kinda true :P
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Also Spearmen were the most common of all soldiers. The spear is the most used weapon in history. I don't remember seeing tapestries of armies of greatsword weiding kuyak heroes invading England.
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Hoplites can easily be shut down in battles just like pikemen, as a shielder just block one of their attacks then hold attack against them untill they either let their guard down or just keep holding and watch them be unable to do anything ^^ This is atleast what i do against pikemen as a hoplite ;) Problem is you have to rely on teammates fighting the rest meanwhile..
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a warspear with shield outranges my long awlpike...
nuff said
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a warspear with shield outranges my long awlpike...
nuff said
But your long awlpike outdamages + outspeeds the warspear ^^
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good one, but what mlecke says is kinda true :P
Yep, I just wanted to post that awesome pic somewhere :mrgreen:
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outdamage maybe, outspeed? not at all. they use their autoblock shield and insane reach each time i try to stab, if i hit their shield, i get an insane stun and if i come to close they can still do their insane stupid turn (wich my weapon cant btw)
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outdamage maybe, outspeed? not at all. they use their autoblock shield and insane reach each time i try to stab, if i hit their shield, i get an insane stun and if i come to close they can still do their insane stupid turn (wich my weapon cant btw)
Then dont fight them one on one, your weapon doesnt seem to be that good in 1v1 but can probably pump out some nasty damage in teamfights. Or carry an axe and smash their shields when you find one. Adapt.
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Then dont fight them one on one, your weapon doesnt seem to be that good in 1v1 but can probably pump out some nasty damage in teamfights. Or carry an axe and smash their shields when you find one. Adapt.
I dont care that my pikes arent good at 1v1, but with 1v1 we mean combat were the attacker is very close to you. the problem here is that the ONLY thing where my weapon should be good at (stabbing from a range) is impossible against a class with a weapon that shouldnt have a this insane range (unrealistic, so i hate it).
would you want it that a weapon that is able to outspam you when you let it come close also is able to outreach you? what would you do?
its a stupid as a onehander that has 500 meters of ghostreach and kills an archer across the map
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outdamage maybe, outspeed? not at all. they use their autoblock shield and insane reach each time i try to stab, if i hit their shield, i get an insane stun and if i come to close they can still do their insane stupid turn (wich my weapon cant btw)
You can do stupid turns with a long awlpike, maybe not on EU 2, but on EU 1 the long awlpike should have reasonable turn speed. The long awlpike can easily stab at facehug range. So yes, outspeed and outdamage, outdamage by a fucking lot.
I dont care that my pikes arent good at 1v1, but with 1v1 we mean combat were the attacker is very close to you. the problem here is that the ONLY thing where my weapon should be good at (stabbing from a range) is impossible against a class with a weapon that shouldnt have a this insane range (unrealistic, so i hate it).
would you want it that a weapon that is able to outspam you when you let it come close also is able to outreach you? what would you do?
No hoplite is able to outspam a long awlpike, you don't get the long stun unless you do a late hitting stab, although the mechanics are kinda funky at times. What is unrealistic about the range of hoplite spears?
If you really have that much trouble in a 1 vs 1 with a long awlpike against a hoplite, you might want to learn to chamber, or switch weapons.
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I was Hoplite long before the Hoplite buff because I got sick of getting shot by archers and got sick of the easy mode cavalry bumping and lancing me to death, also because I like to teamplay and as a hoplite I didn't get much kills but helped the Kuyak heroes get kills by sticking with them and stabbing whoever they fought or stopped that cav from backstabbing them.
It's not the Hoplites that are OP, it's teamwork. If you are fighting more than one hoplites on your own then maybe your team did something terribly wrong. If a hoplite kills you on his own, then just shame on you, learn2downblock.
yes but...kicks have gotten really easy to pull off lately
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i was talking about me and some other guy attacking a backpeddeling hoplite, and yes i have 8 ath. this still made it impossible to do anything. be sure i know how to play, but a hoplite is just totally stupid
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i was talking about me and some other guy attacking a backpeddeling hoplite, and yes i have 8 ath. this still made it impossible to do anything. be sure i know how to play, but a hoplite is just totally stupid
You couldnt fight a 2v1 on a hoplite? ._. With high athl it should be easy.
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You couldnt fight a 2v1 on a hoplite? ._. With high athl it should be easy.
i have fought as hoplite and i know that it is easy. the stab is just too long.
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i have fought as hoplite and i know that it is easy. the stab is just too long.
Thats not the point, you should be able to hold attack against the hoplite so he cant do anything while your teammate attacks his shield and with 8athl you should be able to run behind the hoplite and hit him in the back. He shouldnt be able to fight back at all, but you probably just spammed attacks and during the stun he could fight back.
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i think it has something to do with crushthrough, holding overhit is risky just to succeed it, and less mauls means more shielders..
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I dont ride horses, I loathe them. I think however that the hitboxes and distances from which you can stab people in melee with spears are kinda weird and needs to be looked over.
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a warspear with shield outranges my long awlpike...
nuff said
and a German/Danish Greatsword stab outreaches my warspear with a shield.
Whats your point?
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yes but...kicks have gotten really easy to pull off lately
yes but...jumps are still as easy to do and jumpers are still unkickable
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Hoplite's are easy to shut down. Just chamber us. Overhead or poke, doesn't matter, we usually won't be able to recover in time to block.
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Heh, the amount of hoplites increasing could be the result of the average skill level getting higher. People used to think "wtf is that spinstab op shit?!". But nowdays is just "Oh, I can do that too!"
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the only reason for the sudden spike in hoplites is the shear amount of range and cav that control the servers, this is a class that can counter both classes, i dont see Hoplites complaining about the OP lolstab that is longer and does more damage than a spear, plus its not hard to fight a hoplite in 1v1, downblock and hold your attacks and they will get frustrated.
Learn to adapt when fighting different classes, i definitely do. Different classes demand different play styles.
Deal with it.
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I think the amount of hoplites increased because of stab buff that happened recently, also don't forget turnspeed buff for light weapons (even for spears it's noticeable). Stab glances less now, even with 1h.
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only solution is give back burning heavy lances @ full angle with throwing option.
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Hoplites have been overcrowding NA since the day after the spin changes and I've been saying they were overbuffed since then. It's a dedicated lolstab class with perma forcefield shield bubble. The extra range from holding a shield, the reduced hoplite penalty, and the power of pierce damage compared to lets say a typical 1handed sword is all just too strong.
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Nerf da shitz out of them.
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Pro Tip: Block down
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in crowd fights simple down block dosent work
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I have some problems with the instastab since you have to chamber earlier than their animation starts sometimes in comparison to sideswings/overheads, but all this is more of a balance to put them in line with the others rather than buffing them to OP levels. For people saying block down, it's a matter of offense, not defense. I used to risk chambers a lot more, but with the awkward timing I just try to shoo them away now.
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I think one of the reasons people hate hoplites... they dont really attack you directly as much as indirectly; you're in a mob fighting someone right in front of you, then all the sudden you get shanked by a hoplite that ran through the line, right as you're about to take the guy's head off.
btw... its very fun to be a hoplite until you are fighting 1v1. or 1v2
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I have some problems with the instastab since you have to chamber earlier than their animation starts sometimes in comparison to sideswings/overheads, but all this is more of a balance to put them in line with the others rather than buffing them to OP levels. For people saying block down, it's a matter of offense, not defense. I used to risk chambers a lot more, but with the awkward timing I just try to shoo them away now.
this. i used to love chambering pikes and hoplites, now the animations is too fucked up and it's more of a guessing game than a skill.
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this. i used to love chambering pikes and hoplites, now the animations is too fucked up and it's more of a guessing game than a skill.
This guessing is a part of a skill itself. You have to know when you can try chambering and when you should not but all in all I agree that this stab detection sucks :?
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the only reason for the sudden spike in hoplites is the shear amount of range and cav that control the servers, this is a class that can counter both classes, i dont see Hoplites complaining about the OP lolstab that is longer and does more damage than a spear, plus its not hard to fight a hoplite in 1v1, downblock and hold your attacks and they will get frustrated.
Learn to adapt when fighting different classes, i definitely do. Different classes demand different play styles.
Deal with it.
My thoughts exactly.
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in crowd fights simple down block dosent work
To be fair, in crowd fights no block works. If I'm fighting with a teammate I swing the exact opposite direction he does, and it works 95% of the time.
We have a buttload of hoppies due to
- You need a shield to survive the lolspam of crossbows and archers, both surging due to Cav
- You need a spear to help keep your team from being ROFLstomped from aforementioned cav.
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Finally there is a sufficent amount of hoplites woth comparison to history
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To be fair, in crowd fights no block works. If I'm fighting with a teammate I swing the exact opposite direction he does, and it works 95% of the time.
footwork in crowdfights can easily prevent getting hit by this.
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footwork in crowdfights can easily prevent getting hit by this.
True, however this requires an amount of ath or horrible opponents.
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footwork in crowdfights can easily prevent getting hit by this.
and footwork while blocking down cant prevent from getting hit by multiple hoplites?
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Hmm I think I need to post my strategy when dealing with hoplites + infantry.
Do not forget that hoplites have only one attack direction and it is a very long yet slow one. The other infantry will have 3-4 attack directions, and it is probably the opposite of hoplite. Fast, but less reach.
-Always try to stay near the hoplite, possibly very near that his spear won't be useful much. During this time, focus on the other infantries attacks.
-There will be times where you will have to be in the perfect range of the hoplite. So unless they attack at the same time; simply block the infantry attack then use a downblock if you think you'll get attacked by the hoplite. It works if they don't attack at the same time. If they attack at the same time, well it was 1v2 already and they did a good teamjob.
-Anticipating the movements of the hoplite is easy to predict. He/she will be most likely to stay in ideal distance. So it might be easier to leave him/her out of his reach. You said you have 8 athletics, well that is also nearly the maximum for the hoplite too (lvl 30+ most likely). You should be able to leave it out.
Following these guidelines, enemy hoplites are not much of a problem for me in melee fighting. They can be shut down pretty easily, if you have few cards in your hand.
-All in all, awlpikes might not be the best weapon to deal with hoplites. The weapon itself is designed to do big damage to enemy infantry and cavalry, I think. Against a hoplite, I'd reccommend using overhead maybe. I'm not an awlpiker. From what I see in siege server, you can quickly grasp the techniques of dealing with them, no rules.
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Hmm I think I need to post my strategy when dealing with hoplites + infantry.
Do not forget that hoplites have only one attack direction and it is a very long yet slow one.
Stopped reading.
It connects instantly if the hoplite wants to.
Not that I have any problem with hoplites (few of that kind on EU_2), but saying hoplites are slow is a straight lie. Also, shieldless short 2D polearms do this much better than hoplite weapons.
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So, I heard from a few questionable sources that most of melee combat throughout history favored the use of some form of spear. Early forms of it may have even used shields together. Questionable source of course.
Why would such a combination even work? I mean, you stop arrows AND can hit your enemy from a greater distance than they can hit you? You can also use formations to better support your allies at almost no expense to your own safety? Such insanity would never work in any given situation of melee combat!
Sarcasm off.
Google phalanx.
Shield to stop arrows and multiple enemies, potential for one of the longest reaching attacks in the game. The more hoplites, the stronger the team.
Oh, and coming from a hoplite, our greatest weakness is a combination of smart spam with downblocking.
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Stopped reading.
Stopped reading.
Since you are naked, of course it will hit you instantly. Wear higher than 15-20 armor value and you'll see the difference those quick hits will glance you. Or use your nakedness and outrun them.
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Stopped reading.
Since you are naked, of course it will hit you instantly. Wear higher than 15-20 armor value and you'll see the difference those quick hits will glance you.
That is simply not true. They will instastab you even with armor. The problem now is that I'm always constantly trying to chamber block those thrusts. It's just automation in my head. Something is changed because it won't work anymore and the stab connects almost instantly.
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Hmm... ok then. I might be wrong. I'll try if this holds true or not, this night. Maybe it's simply my lack of observation... Readied the STF. Will write a reply by the midnight.