cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: matt2507 on January 10, 2013, 01:48:13 am

Title: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: matt2507 on January 10, 2013, 01:48:13 am



Small personal experiment: use a bow as a melee weapon with the secondary mode.
This simply transforms some bow into melee weapon, some as 1H, others as 2H.

I think after all the nerfs that archers sudden, this feature would be welcome.
In addition, it would be very simple to implement since I provide the code (maybe not perfect).

The only problem I encountered is that the shot is given in the direction of the string, if the devs find a solution..

(click to show/hide)

Code: (module_items.py) [Select]
["short_bow", "Short_Bow", [("short_bow_h1",0)],itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed|itp_next_item_as_melee ,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bow_back,
728 , weight(2)|difficulty(1)|spd_rtng(75) | accuracy(96) | shoot_speed(37) | thrust_damage(18 ,cut),imodbits_bow ],
["short_bow_melee", "Short_Bow", [("short_bow_h1",0)],itp_type_one_handed_wpn |itp_primary|itp_wooden_attack|itp_wooden_parry ,itcf_carry_bow_back|itc_scimitar,
728 , weight(2)|difficulty(0)|spd_rtng(96)|weapon_length(60)| swing_damage(10,blunt),imodbits_bow ],

["hunting_bow", "Bow", [("bow_h1",0)],itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed|itp_next_item_as_melee ,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bow_back,
728 , weight(2)|difficulty(2)|spd_rtng(72) | accuracy(96) | shoot_speed(37) | thrust_damage(20 ,cut),imodbits_bow ],
["hunting_bow_melee", "Bow", [("bow_h1",0)],itp_type_two_handed_wpn |itp_primary|itp_wooden_attack|itp_wooden_parry ,itcf_carry_bow_back|itc_nodachi,
728 , weight(2)|difficulty(0)|spd_rtng(96)|weapon_length(88)| swing_damage(10,blunt),imodbits_bow ],

["nomad_bow", "Nomad_Bow", [("nomad_bow_h1",0)],itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed|itp_next_item_as_melee ,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bowcase_left,
728 , weight(2.3)|difficulty(3)|spd_rtng(69) | accuracy(96) | shoot_speed(38) | thrust_damage(21 ,cut),imodbits_bow ],
["nomad_bow_melee", "Nomad_Bow", [("nomad_bow_h1",0)],itp_type_one_handed_wpn |itp_primary|itp_wooden_attack|itp_wooden_parry ,itcf_carry_bowcase_left|itc_scimitar,
728 , weight(2.3)|difficulty(0)|spd_rtng(95)|weapon_length(50)| swing_damage(10,blunt),imodbits_bow ],

["khergit_bow", "Tatar_Bow", [("tatar_bow_h1",0)],itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed|itp_next_item_as_melee ,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bowcase_left,
728 , weight(2.3)|difficulty(4)|spd_rtng(66) | accuracy(97) | shoot_speed(38) | thrust_damage(22 ,cut),imodbits_bow ],
["khergit_bow_melee", "Tatar_Bow", [("tatar_bow_h1",0)],itp_type_one_handed_wpn |itp_primary|itp_wooden_attack|itp_wooden_parry ,itcf_carry_bowcase_left|itc_scimitar,
728 , weight(2.3)|difficulty(0)|spd_rtng(95)|weapon_length(56)| swing_damage(10,blunt),imodbits_bow ],

["strong_bow", "Horn_Bow", [("horn_bow_h1",0)],itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed|itp_next_item_as_melee ,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bowcase_left,
728 , weight(2.5)|difficulty(5)|spd_rtng(60) | accuracy(97) | shoot_speed(39) | thrust_damage(24 ,cut),imodbits_bow ],
["strong_bow_melee", "Horn_Bow", [("horn_bow_h1",0)],itp_type_one_handed_wpn |itp_primary|itp_wooden_attack|itp_wooden_parry ,itcf_carry_bowcase_left|itc_scimitar,
728 , weight(2.5)|difficulty(0)|spd_rtng(94)|weapon_length(58)| swing_damage(12,blunt),imodbits_bow ],

["yumi", "Yumi", [("yumi_h1",0)],itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed|itp_next_item_as_melee ,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bow_back,
728 , weight(3)|difficulty(6)|spd_rtng(60) | accuracy(100) | shoot_speed(35) | thrust_damage(26 ,cut),imodbits_bow ],
["yumi_melee", "Yumi", [("yumi_h1",0)],itp_type_two_handed_wpn |itp_primary|itp_wooden_attack|itp_wooden_parry ,itcf_carry_bow_back|itc_nodachi,
728 , weight(3)|difficulty(0)|spd_rtng(93)|weapon_length(143)| swing_damage(13,blunt),imodbits_bow ],

["war_bow", "Rus_Bow", [("rus_bow_h1",0)],itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed|itp_next_item_as_melee ,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bow_back,
728 , weight(3.5)|difficulty(6)|spd_rtng(56) | accuracy(99) | shoot_speed(39) | thrust_damage(28 ,cut),imodbits_bow ],
["war_bow_melee", "Rus_Bow", [("rus_bow_h1",0)],itp_type_two_handed_wpn |itp_primary|itp_wooden_attack|itp_wooden_parry ,itcf_carry_bow_back|itc_nodachi,
728 , weight(3.5)|difficulty(0)|spd_rtng(92)|weapon_length(88)| swing_damage(14,blunt),imodbits_bow ],

["long_bow", "Long_Bow", [("long_bow_h1",0)],itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed|itp_next_item_as_melee ,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bow_back,
728 , weight(4)|difficulty(6)|spd_rtng(50) | accuracy(103) | shoot_speed(40) | thrust_damage(31 ,cut),imodbits_bow ],
["long_bow", "Long_Bow", [("long_bow_h1",0)],itp_type_two_handed_wpn |itp_primary|itp_wooden_attack|itp_wooden_parry ,itcf_carry_bow_back|itc_nodachi,
728 , weight(4)|difficulty(0)|spd_rtng(92)|weapon_length(106)| swing_damage(16,blunt),imodbits_bow ],

Quote
note: melee item should always be below the bow which it depends for the "itp_next_item_as_melee" flag.
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: no_rules_just_play on January 10, 2013, 01:59:27 am
how is this realistic?
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on January 10, 2013, 01:59:48 am
If an axe hit that, it would break in half.

In my opinion. No this should not be added.
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Panos on January 10, 2013, 02:04:39 am
Besides the fact that it`s not realistic,having a secondary mode in bows,means that archers can have one more quiver of arrows because they won`t need a sidearm, fuck that.

NO.
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Cris on January 10, 2013, 02:06:08 am
I like it

If an axe hit that, it would break in half.

In my opinion. No this should not be added.

The same applies to any wooden melee weapon (like staff), or thin blades bending, armor being damages as it gets hit and many other realistic mechanics this games lack.

With the right stats it could be a great idea. I would not give bows the melee attributes of any viable melee weapon.

Besides the fact that it`s not realistic,having a secondary mode in bows,means that archers can have one more quiver of arrows because they won`t need a sidearm, fuck that.

NO.

That would only apply for Yumi bow and below. Longbow and Rus bow users already use a 0 slot weapon. Again, with the right stats it wont make a difference.

 Good archers already don't run out of arrows so it should affect the amount of missiles that much.
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: matt2507 on January 10, 2013, 02:06:16 am
It's like the staff, the pike, the long spear or other lance, it should not be able to parry and yet they do it when it is easily removable.

reason: gameplay
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: matt2507 on January 10, 2013, 02:11:12 am
Besides the fact that it`s not realistic,having a secondary mode in bows,means that archers can have one more quiver of arrows because they won`t need a sidearm, fuck that.

NO.

no because the bow has always the same number of slots. This is true for 1 slot bow, but this is not a real weapon. In addition, the stats will have lower when bows are smaller so it is in their interest to take a secondary weapon with a 1slot bow.

In addition, the difference between 2 or 3 arrow stack is not to be taken into account since in general it does not finish the second at the end of a round.
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Panos on January 10, 2013, 02:13:24 am


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Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on January 10, 2013, 02:24:13 am
I like it

The same applies to any wooden melee weapon (like staff), or thin blades bending, armor being damages as it gets hit and many other realistic mechanics this games lack.

With the right stats it could be a great idea. I would not give bows the melee attributes of any viable melee weapon.

Watching that video and seeing the speed on it, even with 14 blunt that would be enough to out swing and do enough damage to people that it would just become silly. If the bow was unable to block then I would be a tiny tiny tiny bit more infavour for this but then archers would just spam spam spam so it wouldn't matter.

And yes I know the speed on it would be changed but even at 90 it would be to fast.
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Butan on January 10, 2013, 02:29:56 am
Its in no way realistic (even if some hardwood could block blades) but like others said, it is the same for all wooden weapons and all greatly smaller weapons (stick blocking a flamberge anyone?).

It would give archers incentive to melee fight instead of kiting (yes, they still try to kite as much as they can even after the kiting nerf), and they will be able to defend themselves better.

This "melee mode" flag should be on every bows IMO, but with the blunt damage of a wooden stick, so they cant duel meleeist efficiently but can block and finish/injure enemies.


Then, if it "unbalances" the game, just put every bows at 2 slots, so they cant block with a 1 slot bow, 1 quiver, and pull out a danish greatsword out of their asses (which is something some archers already does...).

Also, with the actual weight of arrows, bringing a 3rd quiver with a 1 slot bow melee mode would be a good choice for spamming them, but would be COMPLETELY impossible to kite.



The only downside I see with this is, good archers often just block with their melee weapon, so that would give them even more of a window of opportunity to release that last arrow, then do a quick melee mode block, block while going back and when out of reach, go back to archery and shoot, etc...

So it would need to be perfectly balanced to implement to the game, so that good archers doesnt become super OP / impossible to reach.



P.S.: the video shows the "concept" of melee mode on bows. DAMAGE and SPEED arent decided by matt, he is only suggesting the OPTION TO have melee mode: exact stats will be decided by more responsible persons.
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Torben on January 10, 2013, 02:31:24 am
+1 for the effort,  not sure how it would be in game,  but archers need some love.
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: no_rules_just_play on January 10, 2013, 02:32:16 am
ok pikes should break, and im a piker that approves that. but multiple pikes stabbing at you should not be blockable (i made a thread about this and about all other formation fail like shieldwalls, pikewalls and archerlines that dont make sense in crpg because ninjas do better), you can now retardly block 100 pikes by just downblocking, but i wouldnt be very realistic to just charge a wall of pikes wouldnt it? same for horse charges and others.
but still, we are talking here about bows: its a thin piece of wood that is used in fantasy fiction to swing around and hit people with. we are talking here about BOWS not a single archer would think about trying to hit someone or something with his bow. he either payed alot for this piece of master work or he did it himself and knows how fragile it is. if you want to use a bow to hit somebody: hit him once (doing no damage unless to naked people) and find your bow either broken or just atleast unusable. the wood of a bow is meant to be flexible in the way you pull at it, not flexible to hit with it. and lets not mention the thin cord that is used to shoot your arrow, if that doesnt break...

http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/pikewalls/
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: matt2507 on January 10, 2013, 02:34:54 am
Watching that video and seeing the speed on it, even with 14 blunt that would be enough to out swing and do enough damage to people that it would just become silly. If the bow was unable to block then I would be a tiny tiny tiny bit more infavour for this but then archers would just spam spam spam so it wouldn't matter.

And yes I know the speed on it would be changed but even at 90 it would be to fast.

1: I make my test in native, so my archer have skills in melee, which is not the case for most archer on cRPG. In addition, it has been 20 blunt damage in the video. If you look at the stats I posted, it does not have this value.

2: In the video, the bow has 97 speed and I use it with a light equipment, which is not the case with the weight added to bows lately. In addition, as I said, my archer was probably the wpf in melee, which is not the case in cRPG, which will reduce the speed yet.

The purpose of this is mainly that the archers can defend themselves, but this is in no way offensive purposes. Remove the ability to parry would give this a no interest.
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: matt2507 on January 10, 2013, 02:43:48 am
we are talking here about BOWS not a single archer would think about trying to hit someone or something with his bow. he either payed alot for this piece of master work or he did it himself and knows how fragile it is.

I think if I was in a situation with a big barbarian with an axe in front of me and was prepared to kill me in one hit, I would not hesitate to throw my bow in his face rather than take the time to out my sword.

Although, in cRPG, most archers who die in melee die during the time they take their secondary weapon.
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on January 10, 2013, 02:46:52 am
Most archers already have a melee weapon even if it is the 0 slot hammer or pic they still do surprising damage, so please don't say archers can't defend them selves they have a melee weapon as shit as it is they can still defend them selves.

Also you want to make the Rusbow easymodebow the same speed as my axe? Nice now archers are going to out swing me along with everyone else! Plus all blunt weapons have knockdown, if bows get knockdown then that will be just utter nonsense and madness.


I think if I was in a situation with a big barbarian with an axe in front of me and was prepared to kill me in one hit, I would not hesitate to throw my bow in his face rather than take the time to out my sword.

Although, in cRPG, most archers who die in melee die during the time they take their secondary weapon.

So do pikers and other people who have supportive weapons yet they deal with it.
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: matt2507 on January 10, 2013, 02:53:57 am
Most archers already have a melee weapon even if it is the 0 slot hammer or pic they still do surprising damage, so please don't say archers can't defend them selves they have a melee weapon as shit as it is they can still defend them selves.

Also you want to make the Rusbow easymodebow the same speed as my axe? Nice now archers are going to out swing me along with everyone else! plus all blunt weapons have knockdown, if bows get knock down then that will be just utter nonsense and madness.


So do pikers and other people who have supportive weapons yet they deal with it.

It seems to me logical that a bow which is ten times lighter than your axe is faster than it. Especially as your axe make ten times more damage..

And no, they do not have a knockdown

So do pikers and other people who have supportive weapons yet they deal with it.

In the meantime, they can parry with their weapons..
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: no_rules_just_play on January 10, 2013, 03:03:36 am
I think if I was in a situation with a big barbarian with an axe in front of me and was prepared to kill me in one hit, I would not hesitate to throw my bow in his face rather than take the time to out my sword.

Although, in cRPG, most archers who die in melee die during the time they take their secondary weapon.
yes, i would also love it to be able to throw my long awlpike at the last moment, doesnt mean it should be implemented.


ok if you guys agree melee bow that can hit once before its unusable, and maybe 2-3 times before you cant even melee with it anymore. its ok if its fast as long as it does almost no damage (especially against armored guys) and its also ok if you cant block (or you can, but your bow will only absorb 0.000005% of the damage as its flexible)
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: owens on January 10, 2013, 04:41:14 am
3 stacks of arrows is not viable (too heavy)


The bows shouldn't be able to block.

So i say yes this idea is a good one
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Shaksie on January 10, 2013, 05:02:17 am
It could be added but items that hit it with a pretty measly amount of power (maybe the equivalent of 25 points of damage?) will have a high chance to break it should it block.
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Rumblood on January 10, 2013, 06:08:34 am
The auto-kick against ranged weapons would just disrupt you anyhow and make it worthless as a weapon against melee. It could be useful against marauding cavalry however, and allow you to block an attack from them since you can't dodge them anymore. A couched lance would still go through, and the good 'ol bump slash would still work. So if all it did was enable you to block, I would be for that. You would still have to pull out your 0-1 slot melee weapon against infantry.
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Blackbow on January 10, 2013, 07:56:33 am
we was talking with raylin to a solution on how make archers stop kiting...
since a long time i say : it should be nice to block some hit  with the bow time to get some help from team mates
and finaly raylin did more, imo it could be a good idea to encourage archer to fight and not kiting =...
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: no_rules_just_play on January 10, 2013, 08:10:41 am
we was talking with raylin to a solution on how make archers stop kiting...
since a long time i say : it should be nice to block some hit  with the bow time to get some help from team mates
and finaly raylin did more, imo it could be a good idea to encourage archer to fight and not kiting =...
yes, totally right, but there are better ways
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Haze_The_Hobo on January 11, 2013, 11:21:44 am
Nah this would make it too easy for archers, if this was added they don't have to take off immediatly after seeing a melee guy close. Archers can stand there and try to give final case closed headshot and then block insanely fast since they can just switch weapon mode.

BE HAPPY WITH WHAT YOU GOT!!
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Blackbow on January 11, 2013, 12:21:01 pm
yes, totally right, but there are better ways

tell us a better way dude we are here to find a solution
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Butan on January 11, 2013, 01:45:17 pm
tell us a better way dude we are here to find a solution

accept that archers are good at ranged, and sucks at melee?  :wink: except hybrid classes (which you now have and enjoy a lot :P)
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Blackbow on January 11, 2013, 02:23:39 pm
the idea with this melee bow option is just to defend not to kill
so we dont want huge melee damage
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Sir_Senior_the_Eldest on January 11, 2013, 04:56:08 pm


we are talking here about BOWS not a single archer would think about trying to hit someone or something with his bow. he either payed alot for this piece of master work or he did it himself and knows how fragile it is. if you want to use a bow to hit somebody: hit him once (doing no damage unless to naked people) and find your bow either broken or just atleast unusable.

have you ever held a longbow in your hands? they have to resist up to 130 pounds draw weight (!) so you could stand on one of them and it won't break. (I am speaking about the big warbows now, not any composite bows for horse archery). Of course it does not that much damage but in general there is not much difference to a normal wooden stick which is already in use in crpg. And if you talk about the string, well, it is not unusal that a string broke when you where in battle. they were objects of utility and nothing really precious. (warbows often had strings out of linen and not tendons) Thats why archers always kept some dry strings between their head and the helmet, when they were lucky enough to have one :)

so talking about the realistic factor at least for the 2 slot bows it's not that impossible. after all, the archer is fighting for his life when using this. he wouldn't take care of his bow.
but as others have mentioned this could be a problem with archers who could fire another arrow before having to pull out any melee weapon to block.

so difficult to balance but nice work though +1


Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: //saxon on January 12, 2013, 12:09:51 am
fuck getting killed of a melee bow.
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Tavuk_Bey on January 12, 2013, 05:08:00 pm
yes but only if i'm going to get a bayonet for my xbow as well
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Tigero on January 12, 2013, 05:43:52 pm
Three words:

Fuck this shit.


And go make a better build, 9/30 works good for an archer
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Adalwulf on January 15, 2013, 08:49:19 am
Honestly, Just make all bows 1 slot and allow archers to pick a 1 slot weapon so they can stand their ground. That's all. Fuck this bow as a melee weapon. All archers in combat had a decent melee weapon on them. ALL OF THEM.
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Butan on January 15, 2013, 01:50:11 pm
Honestly, Just make all bows 1 slot and allow archers to pick a 1 slot weapon so they can stand their ground. That's all. Fuck this bow as a melee weapon. All archers in combat had a decent melee weapon on them. ALL OF THEM.

True.

But if you do that, some of them will pick 3 quivers and I guarantee you noone likes it when its raining arrows :mrgreen:

Even though the actual weight/upkeep by quiver is really high, so maybe it could be a good idea ? +1 for a live-test  :)
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Son Of Odin on January 15, 2013, 07:28:39 pm
Nice video, but my answer is no.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Jarlek on January 15, 2013, 07:34:29 pm
Not saying I want this, but if it was implemented I say they should be unable to block.

Why? Because then there would still be a reason to take an actual melee weapon with you.
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Templar_Steevee on January 16, 2013, 01:56:05 am
spd_rtng(92)|weapon_length(106)| swing_damage(16,blunt) for longbow (regular one), so loomed will have about 19 blunt dmg.

With good footwork and some WPF in melee I could be able to spam some players...

IMO silly idea, really unrealistic, and i probably don't have to tell you why  :mrgreen:

no from me
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Akynos on January 16, 2013, 07:26:55 pm
Whenever I feel like I wanna treat someone like shit over the internet, I take a tour through the suggestions.
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Smoothrich on January 16, 2013, 08:38:21 pm
Neat idea, but the stats are overpowered.  You basically made the rus and long bows more effective melee weapons then War Spears (minus the stab) :D

Also here is historical evidence of horse crossbows manually blocking couched lances, I demand this also be added immediately

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also
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bring back lollance
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 16, 2013, 08:41:39 pm
Neat idea, but the stats are overpowered.  You basically made the rus and long bows more effective melee weapons then War Spears (minus the stab) :D

Also here is historical evidence of horse crossbows manually blocking couched lances, I demand this also be added immediately

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also
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bring back lollance

Nice finds!  Implement these now!

Whenever I feel like I wanna treat someone like shit over the internet, I take a tour through the suggestions.


I always + your posts because of your signature, I don't even read what you type.
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: matt2507 on January 17, 2013, 01:08:58 am
Neat idea, but the stats are overpowered.

I know, but these stats are only there as an example. This is the devs to adjust this if they implement.
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Berserkadin on January 17, 2013, 03:27:02 pm
Totally okey, IF I get to mount a small xbow on my melee weapon so I can shot you archers before I reach you.
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: darmaster on January 17, 2013, 10:12:57 pm
Besides the fact that it`s not realistic,having a secondary mode in bows,means that archers can have one more quiver of arrows because they won`t need a sidearm, fuck that.

NO.

they still use a 0 slot weapon (rus and long bow users)
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Afina on November 22, 2013, 06:04:59 am
Long bow 16 blunt wtf? are you seriously? i think it bad idea :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Ronin on November 22, 2013, 03:20:11 pm
It is a good idea if they were set as unable to block. An archer would still be carrying a 0 slot sidearm, but it can be nice for archers to be able to fight back when someone gets close to them unexpectedly and the archer does not have the time to switch weapons to fight back. It wouldn't effect balance much at all (very minor), but would bring a rather good element to the battlefield.
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: MURDERTRON on November 22, 2013, 05:28:03 pm
Add blocking with the bow, but no attacks, that's just stupid.  Also if you get crushed through, your bow breaks.
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Clockworkkiller on November 22, 2013, 08:28:41 pm
Long bow 16 blunt wtf? are you seriously? i think it bad idea :mrgreen:

I think it's a bad idea to necro long dead threads  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Sir_Hans on November 23, 2013, 07:34:58 am
As long as they couldn't block with a bow I think it would be an alright addition... But If archers were able to quickly switch to melee mode and block attacks with their bow they would no longer be squishy targets.

That's just what I think.
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Thorvic on November 23, 2013, 09:49:27 am
There can be a thing what can be realistic : allow the defensive nudge with the "long" bows (I include Bow, Yumi, Rus Bow, Long Bow) (The Skyrim players will understand me about the animation to add^^)

As i said, this can be more interesting, but they won't have the attack/block ability ; they have swords for that  :D
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Tomas_Miles_again on November 23, 2013, 01:32:31 pm
Without a block this would be decent.
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Torwald on November 23, 2013, 03:28:13 pm
 If its break 99% of the time. when used as a melee weapon.
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Ronin on November 23, 2013, 04:19:29 pm
As long as they couldn't block with a bow I think it would be an alright addition... But If archers were able to quickly switch to melee mode and block attacks with their bow they would no longer be squishy targets.

That's just what I think.
Not really, they would still be very very squishy if they try to fight with a bow. Notice that their attacks will mostly glance on high tier armor and they have to rely on chambers, which is a very non reliable way of defecting blows if your opponent knows what he's doing. In other words, you can simply hold your attacks before striking and the archer will most likely fuck up with his timing. Not to mention they might not even damage you if you have over 10.0 weight of armor most likely.
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Sir_Hans on November 25, 2013, 01:15:18 pm
Not really, they would still be very very squishy if they try to fight with a bow. Notice that their attacks will mostly glance on high tier armor and they have to rely on chambers, which is a very non reliable way of defecting blows if your opponent knows what he's doing. In other words, you can simply hold your attacks before striking and the archer will most likely fuck up with his timing. Not to mention they might not even damage you if you have over 10.0 weight of armor most likely.

I wouldn't really be worried about them damaging me. The thing I wouldn't care to see is someone who is average or better at blocking, switch to a secondary melee mode with a bow and block a weapon like a bardiche 10 times in a row until a nearby melee ally of the archer can join in and save him. That's what I mean about how it would make them less squishy... they are better able to defend themselves without sacrificing a weapon slot

It's bad enough archers can block heavy weapons with a 0 slot 1h'er with no power strike or wpf.

Like I said, it's just what I think.
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Varadin on November 25, 2013, 02:49:04 pm
Blocking with a bow on rope side, genius  :idea:
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: HUtH on November 25, 2013, 03:10:30 pm
Just make the bows and xbow ability to attack with like 5 dmg, but with that you can use chambers so you got your block. So you could even block a couched lance.
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: BlindGuy on November 25, 2013, 03:18:30 pm


I think after all the nerfs that archers sudden, this feature would be welcome.



Read this, stopped reading.
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Ronin on November 25, 2013, 06:28:27 pm
Actually chambering with a fist is not possible anymore, so there should be something for archers to do it if they are not carrying any melee weapon. It will probably not be a case most of the time for public servers, but would be useful for strat. Sometimes there are no access to 0 slot weapons and an archer needs to carry as much ammo as possible with him. I remember chamber-fisting saved my life once.
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Templar_Steevee on November 25, 2013, 07:49:50 pm
Sometimes there are no access to 0 slot weapons and an archer needs to carry as much ammo as possible with him.
For that you should blame strat battle commander. Blocking with a bow is bullshit
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Ronin on November 25, 2013, 11:54:16 pm
Blocking with a bow isn't, chamber blocking is... well... acceptable I guess. Especially if they can't even stagger their opponents most likely, with something like 15b or so.
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: BlindGuy on November 26, 2013, 07:47:28 pm
Blocking with a bow isn't, chamber blocking is... well... acceptable I guess. Especially if they can't even stagger their opponents most likely, with something like 15b or so.

With 18 str (most archers have at least that) and 15b dmg you can more than stagger, you can kill. 5b would be acceptable I guess.
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Ronin on November 27, 2013, 10:49:58 am
I doubt this will be the case against skilled players. Archers usually have to fight with extra weight (10.0 per arrows), which will make them worse in footwork. If the melee mode doesn't even have a chance to stagger at all, it will be pointless. Yes you can stagger with 15b, you can even kill someone with it. But good luck killing an infantry with a weapon that does as much damage as a cudgel (1h mode) and can't be used to block.
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: Templar_Steevee on November 27, 2013, 02:04:28 pm
Really, why some ppl want to implement a silly thing like this, while we have few really nice 0 slot 1h weapons? And most of them are deadly, and with them you can easily kill ppl if you have any PS (I have 2 and i'm able to kill ppl with it :D )
Title: Re: Secondary weapon mode: melee bow
Post by: HUtH on November 27, 2013, 03:29:50 pm
I doubt this will be the case against skilled players. Archers usually have to fight with extra weight (10.0 per arrows), which will make them worse in footwork. If the melee mode doesn't even have a chance to stagger at all, it will be pointless. Yes you can stagger with 15b, you can even kill someone with it. But good luck killing an infantry with a weapon that does as much damage as a cudgel (1h mode) and can't be used to block.
I think it'd be ok if archer can nudge and kick someone after chamber... It's kind of last think what you can do if there's no time for changing weapon. It's just a funny feature, it doesn't need to be really effective and changing the balance... it just makes the game deeper in some sense.