cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Draulius on January 06, 2011, 01:19:59 pm

Title: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: Draulius on January 06, 2011, 01:19:59 pm
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,345.msg4251.html#msg4251

Scroll down to chadz' post:

" i'm working on a hotfix, hopefully released today, including the following so far:

you have 60 seconds to leave after the match started
you can join in the first 60 seconds
break chance: from 3% to 4%
repair cost: from 20% to 5%
repair dice roll: does not matter if you are on the winning or losing team.
fixing no heirloomed items bug ingame
changed xp from 1500 to 1000 per minute
siege - blue fog removed
- some other minor stuff"

 Discuss  8-)
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: dado on January 06, 2011, 01:23:42 pm
very good! 8-)
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: Penchik on January 06, 2011, 01:27:24 pm
He should not change the price for repair.
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: BlackMilk on January 06, 2011, 01:32:12 pm
changed xp from 1500 to 1000 per minute

shit
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: Helrekkr on January 06, 2011, 01:34:11 pm
He should not change the price for repair.

He also increased the repair price (3% -> 4%) and now you pay repairs regardless of whether you win or lose.
I don't mind, it's just more consistent overall instead of feeling random.
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: Salamol on January 06, 2011, 01:38:03 pm
changed xp from 1500 to 1000 per minute

shit

You get enough as it is as the moment (when it's working at least) so it could be decreased without a problem.
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: Nietos on January 06, 2011, 01:40:39 pm
I am neutral to these changes except the fact that getting xp becomes more difficult. That is a big nerf considering multiplier after 5 victories. more than 10 000 xp less per round.

Basically equipment brakedown probability is increased 267 % (3 % losing team -> 4 % and both teams)  and repair cost is cut 75 %. Repair costs do not increase as aggressively as before, but become unavoidable. This does not however change the fact that it is still feasible to play as a peasant if you are stuck in several rounds in losing team after team balancing failure.
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: Casimir on January 06, 2011, 01:52:51 pm
Break chance should remain on just losing team IMO. Else people are not encouraged to play smart and those who win may still be punidhed even if they do play smart.

Also horses will be fixed yes?
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: Takoul on January 06, 2011, 02:16:34 pm
  Agreed that if you introduce breakages to the attackers you need to reduce the overall repair costs. Because if you spend half your time defending and half your time attacking, repairs would be needed twice as often than before.

It would be nice to have breakages ONLY for the losers. But as it stands, the requirements for the attackers to win a game on siege are just too easy. Its not a 50/50 chance of either side winning atm.

Less gp and less exp and more repairs will still be the money sink that was needed for the longevity of this excellent mod. Just worried a little that the less exp will make it less enjoyable to those starting for the first time.

Blue fog. I actually enjoyed it. Suited my playstyle as a hybrid thrower/1HD well admittedly. Hurts the archers who have already just been nerfed. But it adds to the atmosphere. Seeing a plated rhino come at you of the fog, or a tincan with what you know is going to be a very sharp sword is a) frikkin scary and b) FRIKKIN SCARY  :P
So yeah, add fog to the random weather elements. Fog and snow could be a good way to reduce the dominance of archers/xbow without a harsh equipment nerf.  Random weather elements will make the rounds less alike. Can only be good.

When you do get a round with clear weather sure you'll get shot more, but hey c'est la vie. Play smart, weave around more, hug scenery, employ the human shield tactic and wait til the next foggy or snowy map to terrorize the shooters some.
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: XavierX on January 06, 2011, 02:18:33 pm
Punishing people for dieing, regardless of the outcome (my team won, my team lost) is BAD. You will encourage passive behavior, delaying of rounds further etc...

Whats my incentive to rush to an objective, or play near the front lines? I probably will die and thus have to pay more in repairs. Maybe ill just hang in the back now...

make it 2% but it rolls for it every round or something to that effect.
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: Ganon on January 06, 2011, 02:20:21 pm
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,345.msg4251.html#msg4251

Scroll down to chadz' post:

" i'm working on a hotfix, hopefully released today, including the following so far:

you have 60 seconds to leave after the match started
you can join in the first 60 seconds
break chance: from 3% to 4%
repair cost: from 20% to 5%
repair dice roll: does not matter if you are on the winning or losing team.
fixing no heirloomed items bug ingame
changed xp from 1500 to 1000 per minute
siege - blue fog removed
- some other minor stuff"

 Discuss  8-)

Weird "fix" if you sum it all up it's like 2/3 of the current repair costs on average, also the 4% seems a little off since multiple items break per round so it's not 4% per round. 4%/round for every item to break is ok, 4% for every item to break every minute not so much :D Not sure which one it is but it wasn't 4% per round for sure. Edit: this also punishes people for dieing but doesn't encourage winning (wtf), so if you're on the winning team you should just hide in a corner and NOT DIE, if you're on the losing team you have to still play naked.
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: Noely on January 06, 2011, 02:24:03 pm
One of the things i enjoyed about playing the patch was gambling on winning rounds with your best gear on, I think making it just a chance for both teams takes out some of the meta gaming that would have happened with repair costs. I don't think people should end up destistute after loosing acouple of rounds though so its good to see a lower price on it, but as a previous poster said 3% for a looser to 4% for both is a massive increase in amount of repairs you'll face. See how this goes i guess.  :o
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: zagibu on January 06, 2011, 02:28:10 pm
There's still the multiplier as incentive to win.
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: Helrekkr on January 06, 2011, 02:29:05 pm
There's still the multiplier as incentive to win.

And it's a pretty good one at that; getting to x5 means effectively getting 5 rounds worth of xp/gold in one ! (yes I'm a math genious I know :P )
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: krampe on January 06, 2011, 02:51:24 pm
Punishing people for dieing, regardless of the outcome (my team won, my team lost) is BAD. You will encourage passive behavior, delaying of rounds further etc...

Whats my incentive to rush to an objective, or play near the front lines? I probably will die and thus have to pay more in repairs. Maybe ill just hang in the back now...

make it 2% but it rolls for it every round or something to that effect.

God why are people so dumb. Dieing has NOTHING to do with breaking of equipment.
Your equip will brake no matter if you win, lose, die or live at the end of the round with a chance of 4%.
BUT to get gold (to pay repairs for example) you probably want to win though you get MORE gold if you do.
So more breaking of equip which is balanced out by reducing the repair cost to 5% from 20%.

So now people don't go the bum style when they see they are on the losing side and hopefully the overall equip value is increased at bit. Time will tell and lead to further balancing patches.

Thanks dev team!

Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: Freland on January 06, 2011, 02:52:44 pm
Pretty good changes - should prevent people from switching to bad gear when losing.
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: cmp on January 06, 2011, 02:54:36 pm
Punishing people for dieing, regardless of the outcome (my team won, my team lost) is BAD.
Dying or not doesn't change anything.
You will encourage passive behavior, delaying of rounds further etc...
Passive behavior and round delaying lead to a greater break chance.
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: Morghann on January 06, 2011, 02:58:10 pm
Your equip will brake no matter if you win, lose, die or live

Exactly.  If you're on the field getting pounded with rocks, swords, clubs, what-have-you, it doesn't matter who is standing at the end; everyone is going to need to fix something.  Armor will be dented. Straps will be cut/broken. Blades will be notched. Repairs for all.  I like it. 
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: krampe on January 06, 2011, 03:11:48 pm
Passive behavior and round delaying lead to a greater break chance.

Liar :D
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: Ganon on January 06, 2011, 03:12:00 pm
I started playing a few days ago, slowly working my way up in gear and trying to understand the mechanics. With this patch i don't earn enough gold to even play naked with a weapon so i can try stuff out and learn to play properly, starter weapons don't do so much damage so it doesn't matter if i do something right or wrong. I just played a few rounds, even got to 3x bonus and still lost gold. I don't know how this patch is supposed to make me or any other new player play longer, when we can't progress or even learn the game. The fix (which i know isn't up yet) as i said previously doesn't really change things alot on average for players like me, and punishes good players that make a difference in winning/losing the round.
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: Paladin on January 06, 2011, 03:29:56 pm
the best thing in the fix is the decrease of the repairing costs. I´ve played a lot since the patch released and every second round i lose, i must pay up to 5000 g (mostly 3-4 k) only to repair my armor. And with the rest of gold,  you can do nothing. So hands up to the fix.
Greetings
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: bruce on January 06, 2011, 03:45:24 pm
Awesome.

Especially the "repairs whether you win or lose", should reduce the "plated tank when on winning team, naked when on losing" fad.
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: Brutal on January 06, 2011, 03:46:56 pm
Quote
repair dice roll: does not matter if you are on the winning or losing team.

This mean that you're almost sure to loose money if you have high end equipment no matter what happen. You can't gamble anymore as was aid before. It's not good for diversity although i can't think of a better system right now.

One other thing to consider, maybe reduce the base speed and maneuverability of horse since you can have pretty high ridding skill now. That way you have to spend  many skill point on ridding to be a good horseman, making you a truly dedicated horseman and not an infantry with 3 riding skill.

Other than that: The patch is really great, the game is really fun for me again, i love X5. 
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: Vexus on January 06, 2011, 03:47:10 pm
Good job! maybe I'll be able to use some better armor now since throwing lances, xbows are annoying with low armor :P

This way everyone has to pay attention on what they equip not only losing team.
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: Camaris on January 06, 2011, 03:51:25 pm
I started playing a few days ago, slowly working my way up in gear and trying to understand the mechanics. With this patch i don't earn enough gold to even play naked with a weapon so i can try stuff out and learn to play properly, starter weapons don't do so much damage so it doesn't matter if i do something right or wrong. I just played a few rounds, even got to 3x bonus and still lost gold. I don't know how this patch is supposed to make me or any other new player play longer, when we can't progress or even learn the game. The fix (which i know isn't up yet) as i said previously doesn't really change things alot on average for players like me, and punishes good players that make a difference in winning/losing the round.

How does this patch in any way punish a good player more then a bad. Could you explain it to me?
And its not true what you are saying. Probably cause you dont give it a chance and play for a while.

I am playing with about 20k Equipment atm and still earn a little bit of money.
When i startet playing the patch my armor was worth about 13k. I earned shitloads of money in very short time.

I so far bought 3 2handed swords, 2 helmets,  2 handarmors, 1 Footarmor, 1 Pike, 1 Shield and 2 Armors worth probably about 20-30k in total.
All that i did yesterday. I can switch so much in between my sets so i can choose between earning lots of money, wasting a bit or being on a point of even.
You never had it easier as a new player to get a good set of equipment so fast.
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: Vexus on January 06, 2011, 03:54:11 pm
Btw was the limit of items you can have fixed?

If no can I know how many items you can have without it screwing up?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: LordSnow on January 06, 2011, 04:45:28 pm
Nice changes :D
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: cmp on January 06, 2011, 04:46:24 pm
Liar :D
Nope. The break chance is per-minute, didn't you know? :D
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: Keshian on January 06, 2011, 05:01:16 pm
Good change.  Makes it more predictable, people will de-equip not because of losing round but becasue they wasted too much money before with high end equipment.  They can alternate between good and bad or just steadily use medum equipment.  Curious what the other stuff changed is..., God, I hope the lame looking goblin archer animation goes away, its incredibly distracting in 3rd person and no archer in his right mind would bend over his bow like that when shooting.
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: Banok on January 06, 2011, 05:08:33 pm
repair cost wont change that much so dont get too excited, tincans

break chance is going from ~1.5 (3/2)  to 4% but cost going down from 20% to 5%

so overall its going to be like 50% cheaper or something like that. (1.5x20=30 vs 4x5=20)
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: krampe on January 06, 2011, 05:13:02 pm
Nope. The break chance is per-minute, didn't you know? :D
No, very interesting thanks ;)
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: bruce on January 06, 2011, 05:15:16 pm
In fact, it becomes consistent now, and actually it will prevent the "tincan when autobalance favours you, else naked" fad we're seeing.

Btw:
0.04 (4% break chance) * 0.05 (5% cost) * 25000 gold gear = 50 gold per minute

Incidentally, the same as your gold income sans multipliers - so you will be able to upkeep 25k gold gear (actually, probably a bit less because of, well, rounds not lasting for exactly X minutes but less etc) if you're constantly on the losing team.

Which will probably translate into 50K of gear for a average player taking the average multiplier for a average player is 2x. Which actually gives a lot of leeway, 50K is a big sum - top tier weapons are about 10k, good armour / gloves / boots / helm combined cost about 30ish, etc. In fact, it may be too much, actually. Maybe 5% break chance would be better.

Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: AgentQ on January 06, 2011, 05:24:35 pm
 :cry:

Just found my favorite polearms base price were inflated x2 at least. NOW I CAN"T upkeep a decent gear.

Long Hafted Blade   4622
Heavy Lance   4798
Bec de Corbin   7312

Maybe i should go back to 2hand, one weapon kills all mode.
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: Jalum on January 06, 2011, 05:27:58 pm
In fact, it becomes consistent now, and actually it will prevent the "tincan when autobalance favours you, else naked" fad we're seeing.

Btw:
0.04 (4% break chance) * 0.05 (5% cost) * 25000 gold gear = 50 gold per minute

I think it's a little more complicated than that?  I was under the impression each minute there was a 4% chance the game would select one of your unbroken equipped items and break it.  Your formula applies if every item you equip is worth 25k, right?
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: ThePoopy on January 06, 2011, 05:29:32 pm
loomed items, is their upkeep cost 5% of items original price or loomed price???
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: AgentQ on January 06, 2011, 05:31:33 pm
Base price definitely goes up... about 33% each heirloom
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: Pavel on January 06, 2011, 05:32:54 pm
I don't like your idea...
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: Grey on January 06, 2011, 05:48:53 pm
:cry:

Just found my favorite polearms base price were inflated x2 at least. NOW I CAN"T upkeep a decent gear.

Long Hafted Blade   4622
Heavy Lance   4798
Bec de Corbin   7312

Maybe i should go back to 2hand, one weapon kills all mode.

TBH, WHY should you be able to carry 3 high tier polearms: Swords are not the fastest, or the most damage, or the longest, but they ARE (ingame and irl) the best balanced: You can do a bit of everything with them. Polearms each fit a different purpose: There is no swiss army knife anymore in crpg, and nor should there be. If Rock beats Paper AND Scissors, we broke the game.
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: Spawny on January 06, 2011, 06:30:22 pm
In fact, it becomes consistent now, and actually it will prevent the "tincan when autobalance favours you, else naked" fad we're seeing.

Btw:
0.04 (4% break chance) * 0.05 (5% cost) * 25000 gold gear = 50 gold per minute

Incidentally, the same as your gold income sans multipliers - so you will be able to upkeep 25k gold gear (actually, probably a bit less because of, well, rounds not lasting for exactly X minutes but less etc) if you're constantly on the losing team.

Which will probably translate into 50K of gear for a average player taking the average multiplier for a average player is 2x. Which actually gives a lot of leeway, 50K is a big sum - top tier weapons are about 10k, good armour / gloves / boots / helm combined cost about 30ish, etc. In fact, it may be too much, actually. Maybe 5% break chance would be better.

There's 1 miscalculation here:
The break chance is 4% PER INDIVIDUAL ITEM. So if you use 8 different items, you have 8 times a 4% chance it will break.
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: bruce on January 06, 2011, 06:32:22 pm
There's 1 miscalculation here:
The break chance is 4% PER INDIVIDUAL ITEM. So if you use 8 different items, you have 8 times a 4% chance it will break.

Doesn't matter, since the sum of 0.04*0.05*individual_item_cost for all items totalling 25K of cost and 0.04*0.05*25000 both equal 50 gold.

Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: Gorath on January 06, 2011, 06:32:27 pm
There is no swiss army knife anymore in crpg

Except the lolswords.   :wink:
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: Astinus on January 06, 2011, 06:55:17 pm
in b4 didn't read anything but OP.

Why reducing exp gain? There's the cap there, the sooner we reach it, the better
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: Ganon on January 06, 2011, 07:10:58 pm
Doesn't matter, since the sum of 0.04*0.05*individual_item_cost for all items totalling 25K of cost and 0.04*0.05*25000 both equal 50 gold.

It does matter, grab a book and look it up. The 4% is for each item per minute, with 8 slots that more like 32% one item breaks, while your formula is only correct if you wear a single item of 25k value and nothing on the other slots.
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: Jalum on January 06, 2011, 07:19:48 pm
It does matter, grab a book and look it up. The 4% is for each item per minute, with 8 slots that more like 32% one item breaks, while your formula is only correct if you wear a single item of 25k value and nothing on the other slots.

4% each item, or 4% chance that one item breaks? 
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: Xol! on January 06, 2011, 07:24:14 pm
It does matter, grab a book and look it up. The 4% is for each item per minute, with 8 slots that more like 32% one item breaks, while your formula is only correct if you wear a single item of 25k value and nothing on the other slots.

Sword (10K): .04*.05*10000 = 20
Body Armor (5K): .04*.05*5000 = 10
Head Armor (4K): .04*.05*4000 = 8
Leg Armor (3K): .04*.05*3000 = 6
Hand Armor(2K): .04*.05*2000 = 4
Shield (1K): .04*.05*1000 = 2

You can add these up, and it comes out to 50 gold. 

(click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: Grey on January 06, 2011, 07:33:42 pm
pwnd with math   :o
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: Vicious666 on January 06, 2011, 08:31:52 pm
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,345.msg4251.html#msg4251

Scroll down to chadz' post:

" i'm working on a hotfix, hopefully released today, including the following so far:

you have 60 seconds to leave after the match started
you can join in the first 60 seconds
break chance: from 3% to 4%
repair cost: from 20% to 5%
repair dice roll: does not matter if you are on the winning or losing team.
fixing no heirloomed items bug ingame
changed xp from 1500 to 1000 per minute
siege - blue fog removed
- some other minor stuff"

 Discuss  8-)


this is a fix?   this is  fool ppl,  make you calculation


chance at 4% instead 3 (+33%), upkeep from   20% to 5%(-75%), but you have it on losing and winning team (+100%) in total still 66% of what it was previously so upkeep still around 15%   


for give you an idea play  with a charger   win or losing team will cost you,        up to   50k in a map      LOL  (if you get unlucky and get it need repair every time   who is very probable with  an average round of 5 min x 4 = 20% , so at list   15-20k map    )
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: SgtAlex86 on January 06, 2011, 08:41:20 pm
tincans everywhere ITS TOO CHEAP!   :evil:
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: AirPhforce on January 06, 2011, 08:57:07 pm
tincans everywhere ITS TOO CHEAP!   :evil:

Wrong. It's perfect.
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: StonedSteel on July 27, 2017, 03:51:43 am
Wrong. It's perfect.

I agree, that actually sounds pretty fun.
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: Sharpe on July 27, 2017, 03:53:50 am
I agree, that actually sounds pretty fun.

Yeah but everytime I see a tincan I'm like "Oh shit, Plumbo is back", but then when I die I'm like "Oh fuck, that's a random scrub"
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: Vibe on July 27, 2017, 01:36:21 pm
grey and vicious and you know that shit old
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: Xant on July 27, 2017, 01:41:09 pm
grey and vicious and you know that shit old
Holy shit I'd forgotten about Vicious, one of the dumbest people ever to grace these forums. Signature phrase: "is mathematics"
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: Ikarus on July 28, 2017, 12:23:39 pm
answering to a comment in an over 6 years old thread

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Patch Fix On The Way Today! (Changelog Included)
Post by: the real god emperor on July 28, 2017, 01:13:46 pm
fuck i got baited