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Strategus => Strategus General Discussion => Topic started by: Vovka on November 20, 2012, 01:02:46 am

Title: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Vovka on November 20, 2012, 01:02:46 am
So what we have?

 Owner had Night time, so battle moved to 5AM
 http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesupcoming#!?page=battledetail&id=1503

Its ok, he sleep in that time for sure but why he attack in previous day in his night time?
 http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesupcoming#!?page=battledetail&id=1482

So please replace that stupid system of 8h night-time, after which 90% of people go to work / school. On the system of prime-time fraction. For almost all it is 3-4 hours every evening, so that the 8 hours prime time overrides all European clans, similar to NA. The old system never worked, and only exploited to increase the reinforcements  time from 5h to 13h or for moving battle in shitty time for attackers.

Prime time must be selected by the leader of the clan and for the long time such as a month or more.

How can we Exploit new system?
    1. Go out to create a new faction with the new prime time.
    2. Put stupid prime time for the whole faction for a month.

How to prevent it?
   1. If you leave the faction, you get a countdown for a week and you can not join or create a new one.
       If a faction kick player, faction gets  countdown for a week and can not kick or accept new players.
       All simple, it works in 100,500 games
   2. Only stupid leader will do this and he will be punished by the game mechanics.

(click to show/hide)

+
If u had night time it should mean that you can not be attacked or attack at this time.
+
Also remove defenders getting more than 5 hours to rinforce just becasue of their nighttime settings.  Just standardize it at 5 hours and nighttime wont be abused as much.



discuss  :P





Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on November 20, 2012, 02:06:09 am
I'd prefer to have it set by the faction leaders, and you set a 4 or 6 hour "prime time" to fight battles. 

Or keep the current night time system but allow people to put it up to 16 hours, and during your night time you can't move on the map.
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Vovka on November 20, 2012, 02:42:35 am
I'd prefer to have it set by the faction leaders, and you set a 4 or 6 hour "prime time" to fight battles. 
Or keep the current night time system but allow people to put it up to 16 hours, and during your night time you can't move on the map.

"night time 16h"
its the same as "prime time 8h"  :P
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Casimir on November 20, 2012, 03:31:14 am
Large battles should ONLY be allowed during prime time.

If you wish to initiate a night attack (e.g. Non prime time) the attackers should have to pay with troops/gold/respawn time. But the reinforce time should remain unchanged.

It is sad that people abuse the night time so, i for one hope the devs will fix it.
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Lt_Anders on November 20, 2012, 03:47:01 am
Or just make one week cooldown.

Also, you can't change your night time if you are IN your night time, atm. AKA, you have to be OUT of your night time to change it.

BTW, nice battle time for NA players. 8 PM(20h) at night.
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Keshian on November 20, 2012, 07:53:27 am
yeah but if you are attacked you can still change your nighttime once you are out of it.  So for example someone with a nightime of 8 pm PST to 4 am PST (lets randomly call him shik) is attacked.  During the 24 hours wait he leaves his nighttime and see also that he will be attacked again after the 1 hour window is up post-battle.  So this random person, shik, will change his nighttime setting that day to 2 am EST to 10 am EST to provide an extra 7 hours of reinforcement time to his allies who are bringing two 1000 shiny man armies toward him but with one going slowly and wouldnt reach him in time otherwise.  Now what if this wasa  programmer/developer who did this - wouldn't it indicate that abusing nighttimes was condoned as a normal strategy in strategus??  So it makes it less likely to be fixed.
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Vovka on November 20, 2012, 07:59:11 am
yeah but if you are attacked you can still change your nighttime once you are out of it.  So for example someone with a nightime of 8 pm PST to 4 am PST (lets randomly call him shik) is attacked.  During the 24 hours wait he leaves his nighttime and see also that he will be attacked again after the 1 hour window is up post-battle.  So this random person, shik, will change his nighttime setting that day to 2 am EST to 10 am EST to provide an extra 7 hours of reinforcement time to his allies who are bringing two 1000 shiny man armies toward him but with one going slowly and wouldnt reach him in time otherwise.  Now what if this wasa  programmer/developer who did this - wouldn't it indicate that abusing nighttimes was condoned as a normal strategy in strategus??  So it makes it less likely to be fixed.
Looks legit right now Its part of game meshanics  :P
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Andswaru on November 20, 2012, 08:36:44 am
please sign up for a nice battle, keep the flaming to a minimum and lets have a good time.
We made sure to wait till this hour so we attack at primetime, we actually were there already 17 hours ago, but as i am not a friend of early morning battles and also want my members to have a chance at reallife i try to stay on a civilized time, i can't promise that will be the case everytime, but i try.

^^ Nice one Kinngrimm.
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Uumdi on November 20, 2012, 08:40:34 am
I say remove Night Time.  It was mostly implemented because NA / EU shared a map right?  All it does now is piss people off and alienate people working the graveyard shift.
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Gingerpussy on November 20, 2012, 08:44:00 am
Who is whining now ?

But i agree on prime time, but not 8 hours. Night time should be set for 12 hours
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Vovka on November 20, 2012, 09:02:33 am
Who is whining now ?
But i agree on prime time, but not 8 hours. Night time should be set for 12 hours

its called proposal
even my Google translator knows it  :P
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Tears of Destiny on November 20, 2012, 10:21:40 am
So what we have?

 Owner had Night time, so battle moved to 5AM
 http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesupcoming#!?page=battledetail&id=1503 (http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesupcoming#!?page=battledetail&id=1503)

Its ok, he sleep in that time for sure but why he attack in previous day in his night time?
 http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesupcoming#!?page=battledetail&id=1482 (http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesupcoming#!?page=battledetail&id=1482)


...
discuss  :P
Looks legit right now Its part of game meshanics  :P


Could not resist :P



On a more serious note, I am firmly against a nighttime that is a blanket time for an entire faction, we don't all have the same sleeping/work schedules, much less timezones (West Coast like California for NA is significantly different then say East Coast Canada like Nova Scotia, 5 hour time difference).
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Vovka on November 20, 2012, 10:30:07 am
On a more serious note, I am firmly against a nighttime that is a blanket time for an entire faction, we don't all have the same sleeping/work schedules, much less timezones (West Coast like California for NA is significantly different then say East Coast Canada like Nova Scotia, 5 hour time difference).

and what?
So your members have the time like
X and X+5

its mean what time convenient for all your members is from X-1 to X+7

also i dont think what u make battles 1k vs 1k specially for 3 man who have diferent sleeping/work schedules

Aslo NightTime needed only during weekdays, dont see any problem if its disabled for weekends
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Tears of Destiny on November 20, 2012, 10:36:09 am
Smoke gets off work at 1700 Nova Scotia. Jade gets off work at 1500 in LA, examples of common work schedules and this is a 7 hour difference which is hardly supportive of an 8 hour window. When we look at all the different schedules people have in NA (hardly traditional), having a tiny window would be difficult and hardly fair.


I say we remove nighttime entirely.
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Malaclypse on November 20, 2012, 11:33:27 am
I say remove Night Time.  It was mostly implemented because NA / EU shared a map right?  All it does now is piss people off and alienate people working the graveyard shift.

Yup. Get rid of it entirely. No safe times in Calradia.
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Vovka on November 20, 2012, 11:55:27 am
Smoke gets off work at 1700 Nova Scotia. Jade gets off work at 1500 in LA, examples of common work schedules and this is a 7 hour difference which is hardly supportive of an 8 hour window. When we look at all the different schedules people have in NA (hardly traditional), having a tiny window would be difficult and hardly fair.

I say we remove nighttime entirely.
This is a speculation)
90% of members of the clan can play in the window at 8h
intersection with at least 1 hour (1 battle per day)
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Digglez on November 20, 2012, 01:11:30 pm
Smoke gets off work at 1700 Nova Scotia. Jade gets off work at 1500 in LA, examples of common work schedules and this is a 7 hour difference which is hardly supportive of an 8 hour window. When we look at all the different schedules people have in NA (hardly traditional), having a tiny window would be difficult and hardly fair.


I say we remove nighttime entirely.

Other games did it, [Shadowbane, Pirates of the Burning Sea, pretty much any competitive clan play FPS] and it promotes good fights for the VAST MAJORITY that live normal lives & schedules.  Letting people do shit in the middle of night and early morning doesnt promote fun play.  If you have a shitty schedule, tough shit.
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Vovka on November 20, 2012, 01:36:16 pm
Other games did it, [Shadowbane, Pirates of the Burning Sea, pretty much any competitive clan play FPS] and it promotes good fights for the VAST MAJORITY that live normal lives & schedules.  Letting people do shit in the middle of night and early morning doesnt promote fun play.  If you have a shitty schedule, tough shit.
the star ploblem is what in 1 night u can loose army 1-2 mounth cost. And its not fun.
If I could afford to lose the village at night to fight off her morning, I would have slept like a baby
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Andswaru on November 20, 2012, 05:34:08 pm
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Hes not even sleeping/working during his night time. How nice.
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Lt_Anders on November 20, 2012, 05:50:19 pm
And?
http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesparticipated#!?page=battledetail&id=1456 (http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesparticipated#!?page=battledetail&id=1456)

I got up for this battle even though I normally SLEEP during this time. So what if I got up for a big battle? My night time is usually set during the time this battle takes place, but I can't show up to earn XP if i want?

I am sure I can find many people who say the same. They get out of their routine(if they can) just to show for these big battles because they are fun.
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Andswaru on November 20, 2012, 06:11:29 pm
I am sure I can find many people who say the same. They get out of their routine(if they can) just to show for these big battles because they are fun.

111 vrs 181 a big battle? Read, think then post.
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Lt_Anders on November 20, 2012, 06:15:03 pm
So what? He wants to be there, he will be there. Even if it's his night time. People make allowances to be there for battles if they can. Doesn't stop the fact that night time doesn't mean that they are not there. It just means they aren't usually there.
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Falka on November 20, 2012, 06:47:45 pm
So what? He wants to be there, he will be there. Even if it's his night time. People make allowances to be there for battles if they can. Doesn't stop the fact that night time doesn't mean that they are not there. It just means they aren't usually there.
If they're at work it means that they are not there. Not now, not ever.
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Casimir on November 20, 2012, 06:48:32 pm
what if they work from home? :P
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Andswaru on November 20, 2012, 07:13:43 pm
what if they work from home? :P

then they should be banned from been able to set a nighttime  :P
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Falka on November 21, 2012, 03:21:02 am
Exploiting night time is shitty move, no doubt. It's valid tactics, but winning battle thanks to the change of night time - and preventing half of the UIF from participating in battle - is just meh. How many DRZ guys was there? 3? But battle was funny  :wink:

what if they work from home? :P
not allowed! Ban!
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Gingerpussy on November 21, 2012, 07:56:56 am
The question is NOT the nighttime itself. The issue here is why DRZ whines about a Grey attack ?
Do DRZ control Greys now to ?

Hahahaha BUSTED !!!
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Segd on November 21, 2012, 08:16:26 am
The question is NOT the nighttime itself. The issue here is why DRZ whines about a Grey attack ?
Do DRZ control Greys now to ?

Hahahaha BUSTED !!!
you don't have the fucking decency to stay silent
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Gingerpussy on November 21, 2012, 08:31:21 am
yeah again tell me why DRZ have to start a post about Night time when it was a Grey army that did the attack.

Its not logical :P
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: kinngrimm on November 21, 2012, 08:57:04 am
yeah again tell me why DRZ have to start a post about Night time when it was a Grey army that did the attack.

Its not logical :P
Because i already apologized to Harpag about the cirumstances, which but DRZ perhaps didn't know. Harpag also accepted my apology. Harpag feel free to share our communication about this with Vovka.

To all others, i am sorry for this and it shouldn't happen again.

@Nightime/Primetime
I and others already made suggestions how to make a better system, it had been also been confirmed to some extent that changes would be thinkable in several ways. So lets just hope these changes come sooner then later and we could test a then perhaps friendlier system for people who also want to enjoy life beyond Strategus.
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Vovka on November 21, 2012, 08:59:02 am
yeah again tell me why DRZ have to start a post about Night time when it was a Grey army that did the attack.
Its not logical :P
cos DRZ want make that game better  :P
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: IR_Kuoin on November 21, 2012, 11:19:21 am
Yeah ... it is so sad that many battles are lost because the attack / defense is so late that you have to ditch sleep if you want to fight in it :/
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Harpag on November 21, 2012, 12:10:49 pm
Because i already apologized to Harpag about the cirumstances, which but DRZ perhaps didn't know. Harpag also accepted my apology. Harpag feel free to share our communication about this with Vovka.

To all others, i am sorry for this and it shouldn't happen again.


When someone is very sleepy, he can forget about simple things :P
Nothing happened. We just lost one army. Compared to devs action it's really small trifle. The only problem that's wasn't our army...

BTW:
quote from Segd:

"Current battle & loot system prevents dynamic warfare. Even within 4 months you couldn't do much.
For example current Tshibtin situation: UIF & Anti-UIF have about 10k troops each. UIF could attack the village only with 1.5k max(constant charge, little tactics) due to battle timer. & Anti-UIF need to have 2-2.5k troops in the village to always win & to get shitload of loot. So all we could do is to send 1.5k armies one by one, until one side will finally run out of tickets(which is hard since every side have more than one hundred active recruiters).
Same goes for Anti-UIF. They can't counterattack our armies in the field, cause we could reinforce our 1.5k armies to unbeatable 2.5k amount & get a lot of loot after battle.
Thats why Strat is boring as hell right now on EU
."

Instead of inventing new solutions, it's better to remove annoying bugs and take advantage of all previously tested good solutions, and implement as soon as possible, because soon will be too late for anything. 35 people on cRPG_1 in primetime is a grim joke that best shows what we are dealing now.

SCALING or At fifteen, I had the will to  learn ; at thirty, I could stand ; at forty, I had no  doubts ; at fifty, I understood the heavenly Bidding ;  at sixty, my ears were opened ; at seventy, I could  do as my heart lusted without trespassing from the  square..

TBH everyone is waiting for Warband II...
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Keshian on November 21, 2012, 02:19:38 pm

"Current battle & loot system prevents dynamic warfare. Even within 4 months you couldn't do much.
For example current Tshibtin situation: UIF & Anti-UIF have about 10k troops each. UIF could attack the village only with 1.5k max(constant charge, little tactics) due to battle timer. & Anti-UIF need to have 2-2.5k troops in the village to always win & to get shitload of loot. So all we could do is to send 1.5k armies one by one, until one side will finally run out of tickets(which is hard since every side have more than one hundred active recruiters).
Same goes for Anti-UIF. They can't counterattack our armies in the field, cause we could reinforce our 1.5k armies to unbeatable 2.5k amount & get a lot of loot after battle.
Thats why Strat is boring as hell right now on EU
."



Lulz.  We have done two city sieges with over 3000 troops and won.  The timer has been fixed for a while - you actually get more than 90 minute in big fights.  one we got 112 in game and the other was 106.  1 hr. 52 minutes and 1 hr. 46 minutes were more than enough.  In the first one they had heraldic mail and we killed 2000 of them and capped all flags in 50 minutes.  The other one they had lesser equipment and we capped flags in roughly the same amount of time (someone had glictched outside of map but close enough to spawn it wouldn't go down).  We had an hour to spare in each.  You can use more troops and thereby get enough time to kill plenty of tickets and even cap flags if you had the balls.  Its not developer's fault you are too scared to attack with more than 1500.

However, i do think a bigger battle like that deserve to have 60 or 70 mercs like in old strategus.
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Segd on November 21, 2012, 03:04:15 pm
Lulz.  We have done two city sieges with over 3000 troops and won.  The timer has been fixed for a while - you actually get more than 90 minute in big fights.  one we got 112 in game and the other was 106.  1 hr. 52 minutes and 1 hr. 46 minutes were more than enough.  In the first one they had heraldic mail and we killed 2000 of them and capped all flags in 50 minutes.  The other one they had lesser equipment and we capped flags in roughly the same amount of time (someone had glictched outside of map but close enough to spawn it wouldn't go down).  We had an hour to spare in each.  You can use more troops and thereby get enough time to kill plenty of tickets and even cap flags if you had the balls.  Its not developer's fault you are too scared to attack with more than 1500.

However, i do think a bigger battle like that deserve to have 60 or 70 mercs like in old strategus.
Fighting against hobos & fighting against carebear is not the same thing :) I was on the second battle, poor bastards could only die & retreat until they got spawnraped. If there was an equal teams you couldn't take their flags or kill all defenders.
http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesparticipated#!?page=battledetail&id=1337

What would you do with your bals if they had same equip & non-stop reinforcements after each battle?
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Andswaru on November 21, 2012, 03:18:33 pm
And his fucking nighttime is still 18:00 till 02:00.
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Lt_Anders on November 21, 2012, 04:03:51 pm
And his fucking nighttime is still 18:00 till 02:00.

can't be changed if it's during night time. Gotta wait until he is out of it to change it.
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Andswaru on November 21, 2012, 04:12:30 pm
Its over 24hrs since the thread started and the guy is moving round the strat map attacking other people outside his village.
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: kinngrimm on November 21, 2012, 04:45:47 pm
Its over 24hrs since the thread started and the guy is moving round the strat map attacking other people outside his village.
he is 17 and goes to school i stand up at 4pm atm and we often speak only in the evening, i am sorry you feel like this now a ruse to prolong this fucked up nighttime setting, but it isn't a bit less jumpiness on your site could safe you stomach pain. Take a chill pill.
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Andswaru on November 21, 2012, 05:02:50 pm
enjoy 8am thursday then.
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Thovex on November 21, 2012, 07:11:25 pm
max sad, just make the night time take 7 days to switch, then 7 days cooldown to switch again.
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Andswaru on November 22, 2012, 12:28:57 pm
max sad, just make the night time take 7 days to switch, then 7 days cooldown to switch again.

Thovex, how does that stop nighttime been abused when some people are happy to leave it set, as a "valid defense against attacks", between 6pm and 2am.
Title: Re: And again exploiting night time
Post by: Casimir on November 22, 2012, 02:06:03 pm
Remove nightime, add set time slots available for attacks (EU Prime Time).

Attackers get first choice of the tiem they attack, Defenders can only move this forward by a few hours.