cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: zagibu on November 18, 2012, 05:31:47 pm
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1h stabs are harder to pull off than 2h or pole stabs, therefore I suggest removing the delay on a failed 1h stab (stab that was blocked or that glanced).
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I'm pretty sure that even if the developers wanted to do this, they couldn't. I believe Paul said a while back that thrust stun (the "delay" you're referring to) is hardcoded into the game engine and can't be changed.
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Would probably result in super fast stab spam,, there must be some other way to fix it.
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Would probably result in super fast stab spam,, there must be some other way to fix it.
So what? Super fast 1h thrust spam == super fast glance and miss festival.
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I know that when you stab with a 2h and bounce you can instantly strike again. I never saw anyone pulling this off with a polearm or a 1h.
Maybe that should be fixed, maybe not. Only a handful of players actually use this to their advantage anyway. IMO it's a bad mechanic no matter the weapon.
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Right now 1h stabs glance at close range and at long range. It should be one or the other.
I'd prefer that they only glance at long range as that would make more sense given the operational range you need for 1h weapons.
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In my opinion it makes more sense for 1h stabs to glance at the start of the animation than at the end of the animation at the tip of the blade, no class, neither 1h or 2h or pole, should get a free instahit so fast it can't be blocked.
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They just fucked too much with the engine when they made the turnspeed nerf.. its just weird how come they just leave us with this broken version of melee combat with stupid half arsed restrictions beats me...
Wish they would revert the freakin change an speed up the combat :rolleyes:
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I know that when you stab with a 2h and bounce you can instantly strike again. I never saw anyone pulling this off with a polearm or a 1h.
Maybe that should be fixed, maybe not. Only a handful of players actually use this to their advantage anyway. IMO it's a bad mechanic no matter the weapon.
I assume you mean when you are feinting at point blank with a 2h, sometimes if you feint into a thrust and out again it makes the "whiff" noise on armour but the thrust doesn't actually go through and you can right swing or whatever. It's not actually thrusting and then attacking again right after but still kinda bullshit.
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I'm pretty sure that even if the developers wanted to do this, they couldn't. I believe Paul said a while back that thrust stun (the "delay" you're referring to) is hardcoded into the game engine and can't be changed.
It is able to be manipulated. You can shorten the stun duration on weapon-blocks. They just don't.
I've never understood why the thrusts have so much longer stuns than side swings, it isn't preventing any problems that aren't already there.
HOWEVER: The issue is NOT the stun duration of failed 1h stabs. It is that they fail extremely easily due to some awful sweetspot/animation glances inherent to our current 1h animation/settings.
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I'm pretty sure that even if the developers wanted to do this, they couldn't. I believe Paul said a while back that thrust stun (the "delay" you're referring to) is hardcoded into the game engine and can't be changed.
They said that about polestun as well.
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I know that when you stab with a 2h and bounce you can instantly strike again. I never saw anyone pulling this off with a polearm or a 1h.
I do (read:did) this with a polearm very often, but it requires some thought.
You can't just do it with any bounce, you need to bounce really early in the attack animation but not instantly because then your character gets stunned.
When your character does one of these special bounces there's a distinct sound. I quickly learned to listen for it when fighting competent duelists.
Learning how to do it takes a little time, but it's not that hard. Learning to recognize and defend against it is even easier, just keep your cool and anticipate it.
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I do (read:did) this with a polearm very often, but it requires some thought.
You can't just do it with any bounce, you need to bounce really early in the attack animation but not instantly because then your character gets stunned.
When your character does one of these special bounces there's a distinct sound. I quickly learned to listen for it when fighting competent duelists.
Learning how to do it takes a little time, but it's not that hard. Learning to recognize and defend against it is even easier, just keep your cool and anticipate it.
Yep, you can do it with every class, it's one of the few things that regularly gets people. I don't think there is a distinct sound though, just the regular glancing noise, but then way too early. It is as simple as doing a stab feint at facehug range, that is all. It is probably a bug, but in these times of near perfect blocking for everyone it is one of those precious things that actually works somewhat reliably. As everyone can use it, I'd say it should not be fixed.
You can do multiple in a row as well, that throws even veteran players off.
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I don't use 1 handers with stab. It solved this problem for me :P
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There is nothing to fix 1h stab works just fine imo.
No spam, get good dmg for risk.
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I do (read:did) this with a polearm very often, but it requires some thought.
You can't just do it with any bounce, you need to bounce really early in the attack animation but not instantly because then your character gets stunned.
When your character does one of these special bounces there's a distinct sound. I quickly learned to listen for it when fighting competent duelists.
Learning how to do it takes a little time, but it's not that hard. Learning to recognize and defend against it is even easier, just keep your cool and anticipate it.
Yeah, you can anticipate it but still annoying as fuck. GTX does that with 2hand lolstabs and stab you in the face while he is hugging you. I don't even see him if he is holding his attack or releasing.
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i wouldnt mind it....it would be a nice change for 1h imo they are glancy as a motherfucker and this would be one less thing on their plate
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1h thrust needs a lot of help, and removing this delay is one of several issues that need to be addressed (including the glances at all ranges and the fact that the actual hitbox way to the right of the animation).
I feel like landing a clean 1h thrust requires all the stars to align perfectly, whereas there is pretty much no situation where the 2h thrust isn't the ideal attack. I practice on DTV peasants all the time, and I bet I glance at least half the time. Against an aware (not even skilled) player? Forget about it. They see the animation start, and just lunge forward and attack, knowing that that can force a glance just by stepping toward me.
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Would probably result in super fast stab spam,, there must be some other way to fix it.
A super fast stab spam wouldn't be soo unrealistic or unballanced. It would only drive people to use more stabby weapons, since atm swinging is more efficient.
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I know that when you stab with a 2h and bounce you can instantly strike again. I never saw anyone pulling this off with a polearm or a 1h.
Maybe that should be fixed, maybe not. Only a handful of players actually use this to their advantage anyway. IMO it's a bad mechanic no matter the weapon.
Unture. I can do both of these "thud feints" quite easily. That being said it is generally much more annoying when it doesn't work with a 1h weapon.
Honestly, I think 1h weapons could use this buff at the very least.
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Considering 1h has overall the lowest stab damage (average stab damage), lowest top stab damage (halfswording and awlpike does more pierce than +3 LEE), lowest (actual) stab reach AND glance a lot. Why not give it something to compensate?
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Does anyone think that a 1h stab animation change is in order? it seems like the animation itself is really slow. im sure there's plenty of replacements on taleworlds.
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Does anyone think that a 1h stab animation change is in order? it seems like the animation itself is really slow. im sure there's plenty of replacements on taleworlds.
The animation was actually really good when you could spin it. It was more like an alternate left swing in terms of effective reach and hit speed. Even better, turning your character away prior to the thrust made it momentarily difficult for your opponent to tell if you were right swinging or thrusting.
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Hmm. I was using thrusts as my common attacks, back when the nerf wasn't there. My first loom was a tempered nordic champ sword, which I didn't like because I was using thrusts more. So I traded it with a tempered long espada eslavona, my favourite sword of that time.
Since it was changed, I find thrusts more of an optional attack. I still find thrusts to be a part of my gameplay, just not that much. Long espada can still be useful, just not the strongest sword for me. Knightly arming is better.
Some sort of skill was required back in the day. Now it just requires more skill. It's effectiveness is still valid, although a bit decreased. All in all my opinion is, what suggested in OP can be a good feature. But I don't have many problems with the current system too. It's doable and viable. Just not the strongest part of 1h anymore.