cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Smoothrich on November 08, 2012, 03:28:07 am

Title: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Smoothrich on November 08, 2012, 03:28:07 am
           Estoc, Two-Handed Sword
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

"A long sword with a sharp point but no edge, having instead a diamond cross section 'blade' suitable for thrusting with no cutting  edge, having instead a secondary attack of causing blunt trauma. It was used by European Knights for penetrating plate mail. Similar  weapons were also used in Russia where it was called a Kanzer. The Italians called this weapon 'stocco' and the English called it a  'Tuck'.

Polearms and 1handers both have several "thrust" niche weapons like espadas or spears that have limited or really weak swings, and usually  fast speed.  Thrust damage is usually in the 30's, and they are very popular since there is so much armor.  Of course if you're a Poleaxe,  you're good at everything.  But so are the current 2handed swords.

The highest pierce on a sword is the newly increased German Greatsword at 27P, with 39 cut sideswings.  Next is the Great Sword, what I  currently use, with 26P and 37 cut.

Basically the only things that make these different from their high cut sister swords is 1-2 points of damage on the thrust or swing.  Its boring and they all feel the same to use.  No fancy gentleman weapons to duel with sophistication and class like you can with espadas.

I would love to see a niche 2handed weapon added, a historical weapon called the Estoc.  It was between 115 and 150 cm in length, averaged  2 kg in weight, and could either have a cutting edge or be basically a rigid, blunt-damage dealing spike, designed primarily to penetrate  armor.  It was based on the longsword, and eventually evolved into 1handed rapiers and the like.  It was also used on horseback to replace  the lance once it was shattered, to continue thrusting into scrubs with steel.

I think this type of weapon could have two versions, bastard sword and great sword, and something in the middle.

Estoc   
27p thrust
30c/17(20?)b swing
100 spd
104 reach
1.8 weight

Kanzer (pro russian model) (give it a fur hilt or something to match Kuyaks ahah)
29p thrust
32c/19(22?)b swing
94 speed
114 reach
2 weight

Great Estoc
31p thrust
34c/23(25?)b swing (overhead swing only?)
90 speed
125 reach
2.5 weight

Estoc would basically be a cross between Longsword and an Espada/Side Sword or War Spear.  Usable on horseback or with a shield.

Kanzer fits around Two-Handed Sword/Great Sword area, no horseback or shield.  Like a Goedendag if blunted, but weaker swings and a much better thrust.

Great Estoc should be the Poleaxe of the great swords.  Similar speeds and pierce damage, Great Estoc loses lots of swing damage for 2hand thrust animation.  Poleaxe still has shield bust + horse rear.  Wanna see an Awlpike type weapon in 2hand class, this would be good for it.

Not too sure about the numbers (I like the pierce damage, not sure about swings) but you should get the idea.  Espadas get +3 to both thrust and stab instead of +2 stab +3 swing like all other weapons, that could be an idea for these swords too. I think it would be a good addition to create more diversity in 2handers.  I  imagine a model of this type of sword has been made by now, if not I'd ask some 3d talent to give it a shot.

Also, I know how people feel about 2hand stabs already, "LOL OP BULLSHIT FUCK U NOOB LOLSTABBER."  Lately though I've seen the popularity of spears, pikes, and other pokey polearms skyrocket, and more hoplites than ever before.  Hoplites get several more points of damage on their thrusts, comparable reach with the hoplite animation bonus, and have a lovely shield to stand around and poke.  1handers get a few options to have 30+ pierce damage on their thrusts as well, and have very effective animations themselves + shield.  2hand seems lacking in this regard, and would love to see something cool added to plug the gap.

Me beta-testing the Estoc in the top secret cRPG 2.0 engine:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Bjord on November 08, 2012, 03:32:43 am
Yes, please.

The cut damages are fine, too.

Ohohoh, if this gets added I know what to loom!
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: TurmoilTom on November 08, 2012, 03:40:42 am
Sword of Damocles: Warlords mod has an Estoc model.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Laufknoten on November 08, 2012, 03:43:40 am
A masterwork Great Estoc would be the weapon no. 1 for 2h stab abusers. 34 pierce stab would be overkill and 37 damage is what you can still call decent cutting power. If you have the models please add them. :)
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Smoothrich on November 08, 2012, 03:54:04 am
A masterwork Great Estoc would be the weapon no. 1 for 2h stab abusers. 34 pierce stab would be overkill and 37 damage is what you can still call decent cutting power. If you have the models please add them. :)

Haha, yeah I'd expect the Great Estoc to only get 2 pierce at MW for 33 pierce, and wasn't sure if I should say one less cut damage or not.  Then I just look at the Poleaxe and sigh  :(
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Pentecost on November 08, 2012, 04:48:00 am
I wholeheartedly support the addition of an Estoc; I remember wanting to use one when I first started playing and was disappointed that it wasn't in the game. That said, I want to bring up two things:

1.) An Estoc is basically a giant needle. You can swing with it, but it's probably not going to kill even an unarmored target without multiple hits. If it is implemented, I feel it should definitely use the blunt values you have listed rather than the cutting ones.
2.) For balance and also for flavor, the Great Estoc could work like the Rondel in the sense that its default mode is stab only and requires you to switch positions before you can swing it. This would not apply to the normal Estoc, which is much shorter. I'm not sure how the Russian one would fit into the equation.

Also,

Hoplites get several more points of damage on their thrusts, comparable reach with the hoplite animation bonus, and have a lovely shield to stand around and poke. 1handers get a few options to have 30+ pierce damage on their thrusts as well, and have very effective animations themselves + shield.

You forgot to mention the part where hoplites get a 30% damage and speed penalty for using a spear with a shield (putting their damage below both the German and Danish), how the Battle Fork, Red Tassel, and War Spear get outstabbed by greatswords even with the animation bonus you mention, and how the one-handed stab is a situational rather than universal attack like the two-handed stab is. I think you should include these points for consideration so that the Estocs, if they are added, are added to the game in a form with parity relative to other melee weapons with similar roles.
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Smoothrich on November 08, 2012, 05:13:08 am

You forgot to mention the part where hoplites get a 30% damage and speed penalty for using a spear with a shield (putting their damage below both the German and Danish), how the Battle Fork, Red Tassel, and War Spear get outstabbed by greatswords even with the animation bonus you mention, and how the one-handed stab is a situational rather than universal attack like the two-handed stab is. I think you should include these points for consideration so that the Estocs, if they are added, are added to the game in a form with parity relative to other melee weapons with similar roles.

The hoplite penalty was reduced or completely removed when they reworked thrusts and overheads.  I think hoplites are overbuffed right now, and have been stabbed by enough high pierce polearms of all varieties to be jealous of their damage values and want something similar in the 2hand class, at the expense of swing damage.

Agreed they need to be balanced which is why I made a thread for discussion on it from different perspectives.  I know how great the 2hand animation is for stabbing, but they are so low in damage compared to similar weapons.

Also, from my brief research there were varities of Estocs, ones that were just a pure spike and others that were more general swords with sharpened edges.  There is already the Goedendag for blunt swings and pierce thrusts, but that weapon is honestly pretty bad and is primarily used for blunt sideswings anyways.  I think it depends a lot on the model chosen, what alt fire modes could be used, or what people think would work best.

I think the Kanzer would be fine as a sword similar to the Great Sword or Two-Handed Sword, just with more balanced stats.  I'd like to see that one have cut damage on sideswings personally.  Pretty sure most people's problems are with the Great Estoc, which I would like to see as an awlpike type weapon but for 2handers.  Wouldn't even care if sideswings were disabled or had horrible stats.
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Digglez on November 08, 2012, 05:17:29 am
that sword couldnt even cut stale bread, terrible stats. get real
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Smoothrich on November 08, 2012, 05:26:57 am
that sword couldnt even cut stale bread, terrible stats. get real

Did my idea just get diggled?
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Uumdi on November 08, 2012, 05:57:21 am
Estoc's are fuckin awesome.  I have no idea how accurate the suggested stats are, but +1
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Shaksie on November 08, 2012, 06:47:16 am
I endorse this, 2h stabbers needed!
I personally would undoubtedly use a Kanzer. However I think the blunt damage would have to be increased a little, current suggested value is rather weak. Yes I understand it is a stabbing weapon and in real life the damage would not be significant but still. Under 20 blunt damage is quite weak, I think the Estoc should do 19/20 and the Kanzer should do 21/22 while Great Estoc should do 25 in my opinion.
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: EyeBeat on November 08, 2012, 06:58:43 am
Estock should be faster.  It should not weigh much so that it can get block stunned. 



Thrust damage should be through the roof but the swing damage should be like 20 slash.

Better idea would be to give the Estock a bonus to swing damage if used without a shield.
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Shaksie on November 08, 2012, 07:03:53 am
It is already fast and light so will get stunned. Thrust damage could be buffed but swing damage is already a little low in my opinion; it should be quite significantly higher than a spear.
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Tears of Destiny on November 08, 2012, 07:14:59 am
Can't use on horseback
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Smoothrich on November 08, 2012, 07:36:32 am
Thrust damage should be through the roof but the swing damage should be like 20 slash.

Better idea would be to give the Estock a bonus to swing damage if used without a shield.

20 cut damage is too low to work in cRPG.  1handers below 30 cut have lots of difficulty against most loomed medium armors as it is.  It would have to be blunt damage, like spears, if it was to be that low.

I endorse this, 2h stabbers needed!
I personally would undoubtedly use a Kanzer. However I think the blunt damage would have to be increased a little, current suggested value is rather weak. Yes I understand it is a stabbing weapon and in real life the damage would not be significant but still. Under 20 blunt damage is quite weak, I think the Estoc should do 19/20 and the Kanzer should do 21/22 while Great Estoc should do 25 in my opinion.

For the damage table of the Estoc weapons, I was using the War Spear as a main reference.

Compared to Kanzer:

War Spear
weapon length: 150 (comparable to 115 reach 2hander)
weight: 1.5 (-.3)
speed rating: 95 (+1)
thrust damage: 28 pierce (-1)
swing damage: 18 blunt (-1)

The War Spear's main thing is that it is a very good hoplite weapon though.  Kanzer could probably get by with some more damage if it was a blunt swing, in comparison.  Would expect it to cost several thousand more as well.

There is also the:

Goedendag
weapon length: 117 (+3)
weight: 2.5 (+.5)
speed rating: 95 (+1)
thrust damage: 22p (-7)
swing damage: 25b (+6)

I'm weighing 7 extra pierce to be very powerful in comparison to most of the other stats.  But looking at it like this, I think 2 more blunt on sideswings would still keep it internally balanced, maybe even 3 more. 

2 or 3 damage could probably be given to the other Estocs as well, but haven't looked too closely at comparisons for Great Estoc yet.  Except for the alt mode for the Poleaxe, then I don't know what the hell to say because its so OP, but I believe it will be nerfed soon.

I was very conservative in the side swing damage ratings because I expect most people to hate the idea of 2handed weapons designed mostly to stab and consider it OP off the bat, but at least the Kanzer seems pretty balanced to me, with 2 or 3 more blunt added to sideswings.

Can't use on horseback

Haha, what?  The Estoc should be usable on horseback.  It would still be one less pierce than a Long Espada, the preferred 1hand weapon for thrusting, with similar speed and reach.  The longsword in comparison is more like a Nordic Champion Sword or something.  Longsword is one of the only viable 2hand swords for cav, compared to 1hander's diversity, one of the reasons I think this is a good idea.
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Shaksie on November 08, 2012, 07:39:04 am
Ahhh fair enough. Yeah people might cry about this request but I think it is sorely needed, I've always wanted a 94 speed two handed weapon with a good stab. I also love non cut damage types :). Perhaps they could have a base swing damage type of cut and a secondary mode of blunt? (With no other changes, I hate how secondary modes are always unnecessarily bad)
I would love to use a Kanzer, it also has the possibility to look completely awesome with and without Finalboss' heirloom pack, so I would most likely want a loomed one straight away.
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Shaksie on November 08, 2012, 07:43:23 am
Stab animations would need to be fixed for these to be viable though, imo.
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Smoothrich on November 08, 2012, 07:49:31 am
Ahhh fair enough. Yeah people might cry about this request but I think it is sorely needed, I've always wanted a 94 speed two handed weapon with a good stab. I also love non cut damage types :). Perhaps they could have a base swing damage type of cut and a secondary mode of blunt? (With no other changes, I hate how secondary modes are always unnecessarily bad)
I would love to use a Kanzer, it also has the possibility to look completely awesome with and without Finalboss' heirloom pack, so I would most likely want a loomed one straight away.

Yes, that is what I would prefer as well.  Low base cut in regular mode, and turning the sword to use the blunter end for its alt mode that has blunt damage + possibly knockdown.  Could be too complicated or end up not making sense with the model chosen, though.  Thing is it was either a dull-sided spike like a Goedendag, or was made to have a sharpened edge for slashing but was still mostly a thrusting, plate piercing weapon.  I think it would do the Estoc concept justice to have both options in the weapons, though.

Instead, every sword just has a useless halfswording mode that uses polearm WPF.  It usually gives weapons stats similar to what I am suggesting, but removes an overhead, uses polearm animations, and there is no reason for a polearm user to use them over an actual polearm.
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Shaksie on November 08, 2012, 07:59:22 am
Yes, that is what I would prefer as well.  Low base cut in regular mode, and turning the sword to use the blunter end for its alt mode that has blunt damage + possibly knockdown.  Could be too complicated or end up not making sense with the model chosen, though.  Thing is it was either a dull-sided spike like a Goedendag, or was made to have a sharpened edge for slashing but was still mostly a thrusting, plate piercing weapon.  I think it would do the Estoc concept justice to have both options in the weapons, though.

Instead, every sword just has a useless halfswording mode that uses polearm WPF.  It usually gives weapons stats similar to what I am suggesting, but removes an overhead, uses polearm animations, and there is no reason for a polearm user to use them over an actual polearm.

True, they could have one sharp edge and one blunt one, but I don't know if that would work with this game's graphics haha.
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Havoco on November 08, 2012, 08:27:52 am
This weapon sounds really cool and would fit into crpg nicely. I think floris mod has these as well.
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Son Of Odin on November 08, 2012, 09:51:23 am
Did my idea just get diggled?
You got totally Diggled there! 8-)
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Teeth on November 09, 2012, 12:49:24 pm
This weapon has a huge niche to fill for the 2h class. There should be varying sizes of which the small ones should be usable with shield stab only or on horseback with shield and stab only. Swings should be very limited as it is an edgeless sword, completely geared towards stabbing. Therefore weak blunt swings comparable to spears. Stabs should be amazing though damage wise, otherwise its just another greatsword with slightly different properties instead of being a weapon with a completely new role.

My proposed stats:

Estoc   
30p thrust
17b swing
97 spd
104 reach
1.8 weight

Usable with shield and usable on horseback, both only stab though with one hand. With the 2h stab and this speed the low blunt damage swings seem in order to not make it blow spears out of the water. Secondary 2h mode with crazy 32p seems in order.

What the fuck is a kanzer and what has it do with Russia?

Great Estoc
33p thrust
20b swing
88 speed
140 reach
2.5 weight

Make it a flamberge type weapon. Polearm stab, overhead, leftswing with a 2h rightswing. Part of the reason why the blade was non edged was so it could be halfsworded for a more powerful thrust. There were some very long Estoc's according to Wikipedia. Besides, the 2h stab animation is retarded for delivering strong stabs anyway.

Alternatively if it has to be using the 2h animations.

Great Estoc
31p thrust
20b swing
90 speed
125 reach
2.5 weight

No knockdown for any of these weapons, they were really thin and slender blades which were very light.
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Vibe on November 09, 2012, 12:54:59 pm
Alternatively if it has to be using the 2h animations.

Great Estoc
31p thrust
20b swing
90 speed
125 reach
2.5 weight

Awesome, 7ath+ backpedal outrange 31p stab spam, mega fun, pls add
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Smoothrich on November 10, 2012, 02:15:10 am
I would prefer a Great Estoc to be shorter, with the 2hand thrust animation, but sideswings disabled.  So its an awlpike type weapon for 2handers.  Two-handed swords with polearm animations are lame when you can just use a polearm instead.  It would basically be a support 2hander for line fighting, like all the new polearms added with the last patch.  No sideswings would justify a 2hand thrust animation and above 30 pierce damage.

Kanzer is the Russian word for this kind of weapon, and I figured it could be more like a Goedendag/Two-Handed Sword/War Spear hybrid in stats but with much better pierce and much weaker swing than the Goedendag or Two-Handed Sword.  Basically being between Great Sword and Sword of War in the weapon list.  It should have better stats than War Spear but cost twice as much and not be usable with a shield.

My suggestions for Estoc are basically the same as yours, I imagine it as being the Longsword type weapon, but would prefer it to have stats more like an Espada than a Spear, for fast 1vs1 combat.

So the Great Estoc would be slow, long, high damage, two-directional stabbing weapon with two-hand animations.  Estoc would be a duelist weapon comparable to to a Rapier, which could be used as a cutting-edged weapon for swings.  Kanzer is just somewhere in between, a non shit version of Goedendag with more War Spear esque stats.

High thrust and half-swording certainly should go hand-in hand, but they all use polearm WPF thus are worthless and no one uses them at all.  Would not want to see it mandatory on a high thrust 2hander as I'd rather just be a polearm character in that case.
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: BlindGuy on November 10, 2012, 06:31:53 pm
My short sword cost 1000 gold and has 29p on the stab...2handers really are needing a pointy thing tbh. Lets Esto(p) talking about it and do it!
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Strider on November 10, 2012, 06:59:52 pm
This is great! 2 handed weapons has the least amount of equipment to choose from than any other melee class. Need to add more!
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on November 11, 2012, 09:00:24 pm
Would it be possible for the overhead to be a long/weak 2h thrust and the actual thrust to be a short/strong halfsword thrust? Maybe with halfsword side swings.

It would be a cool addition but I feel that it would not fit with the default 2h animations very well. It was meant to be wielded differently than a regular european two-handed sword.

Also agree that it would be really wonky on horseback. Wouldn't you break your arm stabbing like that?
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: autobus on November 12, 2012, 12:13:52 am
Get item balance team approval on that and i'll do the model right away.
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: BlindGuy on November 12, 2012, 12:06:01 pm
This is great! 2 handed weapons has the least amount of equipment to choose from than any other melee class. Need to add more!

The sarcasm is strong with this one.
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Sarpton on November 12, 2012, 05:56:07 pm
The sarcasm is strong with this one.

But...they actually do?  That is a real thing.
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: LordRichrich on November 13, 2012, 06:21:31 am
2h stab is already the most OP thing out there. You can point blank quite easily, you hold it at the very end of the animation for AGES and it still does a crap ton of damage. I can see lots of agi whores running around with these weapons, which would be sad.
I'd like to see an Estoc, but maybe a 1h variety (like in deluge, very very very fast (above 100) with a similar reach but ONLY stab)
And the pierce damage should not be higher than 28 or 29, as with the length and 2h animations, it would make 2h even more preferable over tin can opening
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Shaksie on November 15, 2012, 06:35:45 am
Think of the strength it will require and the fact that two handed stabs are now arguably inferior to other stab types, I don't believe this would be in any way overpowered.
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Jarlek on November 15, 2012, 01:35:19 pm
Think of the strength it will require and the fact that two handed stabs are now arguably inferior to other stab types, I don't believe this would be in any way overpowered.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Piok on November 15, 2012, 02:17:04 pm
Nothing is impossible with lolstab :shock: 
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Darkkarma on November 15, 2012, 02:33:30 pm
Think of the strength it will require and the fact that two handed stabs are now arguably inferior to other stab types


Trust me when I say I don't think very many people are arguing this.

The two handed stab is absolutely phenomenal right now. Its literally the only stab I know of right now that gives the weapon more range due to the animation. That said, i'd personally love to see this weapon implemented with the appropriate stats.
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Tears of Destiny on November 15, 2012, 10:07:12 pm
Think of the strength it will require and the fact that two handed stabs are now arguably inferior to other stab types, I don't believe this would be in any way overpowered.


I'm going to assume that this was a sarcastic post, and +1 you.
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Shaksie on November 16, 2012, 06:30:48 am
Hmm, retrospectively that was probably a stupid thing to say haha.
What I should have said is that they are slower than other stab types and thud at close range more easily (mainly referring to polearm stab) and I'm not sure if I am just some form of tard, but I tend to swing more often than stab simply because it is easier to hit people with. Polearm stabs are better than two handed at close range which is (in my case, being Australian) my main concern.
I regret typing that comment before, it was very stupid :).
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Steelbird on November 24, 2012, 11:37:57 am
The deluge mod had an Estoc it looked pretty good.
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Elmetiacos on November 24, 2012, 05:52:04 pm
I agree with Teeth's stats, not the original ones which described it as having no cutting edge and then gave it 31 cutting damage. Only the 1h version, please, no more lolstabbers than we have already.
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Steelbird on November 24, 2012, 10:55:18 pm
I say they should have this but the better fix 2 hand stab so it can't outreach polearms with stats saying they have more reach then the sword, but then get outreach anyways.
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: [Ant] on November 24, 2012, 11:36:06 pm
 The problem is the hold time. Still a 2H with only one decent attack direction isn't going to be super deadly.

2H strength is that each attck direction is useful most of the time. Polearm and 1H have very conditional attack directions with varying speed and reach.



I would endorse both a 1H and a 2H "sword" (if anyone has played f&s).


A 1H stabbing sword skin does exist in fire and sword. I don't know if we have the appropriate permissions.

Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Jarlek on November 25, 2012, 06:18:34 pm
The problem is the hold time. Still a 2H with only one decent attack direction isn't going to be super deadly.

2H strength is that each attck direction is useful most of the time. Polearm and 1H have very conditional attack directions with varying speed and reach.



I would endorse both a 1H and a 2H "sword" (if anyone has played f&s).


A 1H stabbing sword skin does exist in fire and sword. I don't know if we have the appropriate permissions.
You can't use any WFaS stuff in a Warband mode and vice versa. Sad but true.

Reason given is that you can't be 100% sure that the ones owning WFaS also owns Warband and vice versa.
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Ostulor on December 06, 2012, 11:42:39 pm
Bump, don't want this idea to disappear. 2h could use a bit more variety.
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Spa_geh_tea on January 14, 2013, 06:29:02 pm
Current lolstab not effective enough? Trololololollloloool.

Nerf all the other 2h thrusts by 8 damage and then add estoc of max 106 length with 32peirce 30 cut. Then it might make sense, have a place, and be unique.
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Smoothrich on March 06, 2013, 01:12:51 am
bump due to weapon being neglected in patch rip estoc
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 06, 2013, 06:00:35 am
Do you have models (and the required permission to use them) for these?
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Phew on March 06, 2013, 03:30:05 pm
Lately I'm finding 2h hiltslash to be way more annoying and OP than the 2h thrust; guys with 92 speed 2h are double-hitting against my 100 speed weapon because they are able to strafe left while turning into a right swing.

Give it war spear-ish stats, and I don't see a problem with this proposed weapon.
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: oprah_winfrey on March 06, 2013, 03:33:41 pm
Lately I'm finding 2h hiltslash to be way more annoying and OP than the 2h thrust; guys with 92 speed 2h are double-hitting against my 100 speed weapon because they are able to strafe left while turning into a right swing.

Give it war spear-ish stats, and I don't see a problem with this proposed weapon.

Somewhat biased view, since a stab is the worst attack against a sheilder. That being said, I wouldn't mind similar stats to the war spear, more swing damage though because its cut and maybe 30-31 pierce.
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Phew on March 06, 2013, 03:38:12 pm
Somewhat biased view, since a stab is the worst attack against a sheilder. That being said, I wouldn't mind similar stats to the war spear, more swing damage though because its cut and maybe 30-31 pierce.

Well, they can still do the 'stab past the guy, then drag it into him after he's dropped his block' thing, which is pretty rage-inducing. I also only play siege, so mostly fighting in close quarters where lolstab isn't too common. I can imagine it dominates battle though.
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: //saxon on July 07, 2013, 11:13:50 pm
http://darksouls.wikidot.com/estoc
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Smoothrich on July 09, 2013, 03:54:23 am
http://darksouls.wikidot.com/estoc

Yeah man, wouldn't that be baller in cRPG?  I think it kinda fits the stats you were looking for, plus is historical.  I'm gonna harrass Tydeus, cuz there's a few Warband models of it floating around.
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: Zeniues on July 14, 2013, 10:24:11 am
1+ for estoc
Title: Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
Post by: owens on July 14, 2013, 10:43:34 am
So here is my idea.

MW hand and a half estoc.

press x (polearm mode) with shield out (hoplite).


(click to show/hide)
.


profit