cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Everkistus on November 03, 2012, 05:14:24 pm

Title: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Everkistus on November 03, 2012, 05:14:24 pm
Thanks devs, I can play again!

This arrow weight increase is a much better fix against kiting archers than fucking up our builds.
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Mlekce on November 03, 2012, 05:17:16 pm
arrows now have weight of 7-10 kg. :lol:
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Fips on November 03, 2012, 05:19:40 pm
Quote from: Mlekce on November 03, 2012, 05:17:16 pm
arrows now have weight of 7-10 kg. :lol:

[17:13] <Kulin_ban> 20 arrows total out at 8kg, that means each arrow is 2.5kg heavy... something along the lines of 57mm anti tank gun projectile
[17:14] <Kulin_ban> i hope the damage is apropriate
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Tennenoth on November 03, 2012, 05:19:52 pm
Quote from: Mlekce on November 03, 2012, 05:17:16 pm
arrows now have weight of 7-10 kg. :lol:

Perfectly reasonable for not buggering up peoples builds I would say. :)

Yes indeed, thanks guys for understanding our point of view! Appreciated.
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Spurdospera on November 03, 2012, 05:21:13 pm
Quote from: Mlekce on November 03, 2012, 05:17:16 pm
arrows now have weight of 7-10 kg. :lol:
Man those bodkins are heavy, one arrow weighting almost half a kilo. :D
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Pejlaen on November 03, 2012, 05:24:07 pm
So atm I am running around with 0 athletics and a total weight of 14kg on my arrows?

I'd say you fixed the kiting problem
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Mae. on November 03, 2012, 05:27:28 pm
looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Plavor on November 03, 2012, 05:28:13 pm
You've also increased the weight of crossbows and bolts, that's ok.


I noticed that the missile speed got nerfed (-2 missile speed).

Did you change anything else with the crossbows?
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Froto_the_Loc on November 03, 2012, 05:29:18 pm
*sigh* Ok so does athletics still decrease wpf?
Or is it back to normal with outrageously heavy arrows?

Cause I had this nice hybrid build thought up.
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: TurmoilTom on November 03, 2012, 05:29:27 pm
So did we revert back entirely to the old system where the best archery build is 18/21+ or are strength archers still viable?
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Moncho on November 03, 2012, 05:31:07 pm
awww yeah now my beloved hybrid build has more weight from items than from armor!
Military cleaver + knightly kite shield + horn bow + bodkins = 2.5+6+2.5+7=18!
Whereas my armor is 10.3+0+0+0.8=11.1
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: justme on November 03, 2012, 05:31:46 pm
Quote from: Fips on November 03, 2012, 05:19:40 pm
[17:13] <Kulin_ban> 20 arrows total out at 8kg, that means each arrow is 2.5kg heavy... something along the lines of 57mm anti tank gun projectile
[17:14] <Kulin_ban> i hope the damage is apropriate

wrong math?
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Strider on November 03, 2012, 05:39:48 pm
Same thing was done for bolts. I no longer want to be a crossbowmen anymore.
Worst part is I have a +3 arbalest and nobody who will want it.  :(
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Segd on November 03, 2012, 05:44:16 pm
Quote from: Strider on November 03, 2012, 05:39:48 pm
Same thing was done for bolts. I no longer want to be a crossbowmen anymore.
Worst part is I have a +3 arbalest and nobody who will want it.  :(
Do few additional kilos make you unhappy? + 2-3kg is nothing for dedicated xbowman.
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Strider on November 03, 2012, 05:49:26 pm
I like the idea, but 10 weight for arrows is a little too extreme. It should be more like 8 weight.
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Moncho on November 03, 2012, 05:50:06 pm
Quote from: Strider on November 03, 2012, 05:49:26 pm
I like the idea, but 10 weight for arrows is a little too extreme. It should be more like 8 weight.
Use tatar arrows then  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Shemaforash on November 03, 2012, 05:51:56 pm
Thanks for at least fixing archery.
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: duurrr on November 03, 2012, 05:54:43 pm
this is the same fix i would of done

did the balance team fire old retards and finally hired some people with more then 40 IQ?
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Jeade on November 03, 2012, 05:55:07 pm
Ah well, I had my fun.
How I will miss thee, 13PD Longbow plated archer with rondel spam.

(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: DaveUKR on November 03, 2012, 05:55:10 pm
Quote from: Segd on November 03, 2012, 05:44:16 pm
Do few additional kilos make you unhappy? + 2-3kg is nothing for dedicated xbowman.

like +4-5 ;)
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Kunio on November 03, 2012, 05:55:44 pm
Quote from: Kunio on November 03, 2012, 05:46:56 pm
Meow said the new formula for WPF LOSS is (14*PD)-((1.4)^PD)

1 PD = 12.6
2 PD = 26.0
3 PD = 39.2
4 PD = 52.1
5 PD = 64.6
6 PD = 76.4
7 PD = 87.4
8 PD = 97.2
9 PD = 105.3
10 PD = 111.0
11 PD = 113.5
12 PD = 111.3
13 PD = 102.6
14 PD = 84.8
15 PD = 54.4

And now i have to learn how weight effects our wpf. Anyone knows about that?
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Malaclypse on November 03, 2012, 06:16:18 pm
Quote from: TurmoilTom on November 03, 2012, 05:29:27 pm
So did we revert back entirely to the old system where the best archery build is 18/21+ or are strength archers still viable?

Anyone play around with STR based builds since the revert? I really hope Strength archery becomes desirable, at least as much as Agility archery.
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Iymore on November 03, 2012, 06:20:37 pm
Is arbalest and bolts weight effect like armor?
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Meow on November 03, 2012, 06:28:39 pm
Quote from: TurmoilTom on November 03, 2012, 05:29:27 pm
So did we revert back entirely to the old system where the best archery build is 18/21+ or are strength archers still viable?

PD formula was slightly adjusted and 13pd was fixed.
They should be as or more viable than last patch.
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: TurmoilTom on November 03, 2012, 06:30:24 pm
Quote from: Meow on November 03, 2012, 06:28:39 pm
PD formula was slightly adjusted and 13pd was fixed.
They should be as or more viable than last patch.

Awesome. Thanks.
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Cup1d on November 03, 2012, 06:32:37 pm
Quote from: Everkistus on November 03, 2012, 05:14:24 pm
Thanks devs, I can play again!

This arrow weight increase is a much better fix against kiting archers than fucking up our builds.

So what, you receive nerf for nothing and now thank devs?
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Elio on November 03, 2012, 06:37:43 pm
So by trying to nerf the runner's archers you changed bow to M16? epic fix. visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Nordwolf on November 03, 2012, 07:07:03 pm
I totally giving a huge thumb up to this revert!

Even though I'm not archer. Except my 2 archer alts.
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Perceval on November 03, 2012, 07:16:32 pm
Quote from: Cup1d on November 03, 2012, 06:32:37 pm
So what, you receive nerf for nothing and now thank devs?

Call me paranoid but I think it's a bit odd they first introduced the weirdest and wrong way to deal with the problem, got everyone raging about the patch and then came up with a decent solution. Now kiting's nerfed and even the ranged are happy about it.
I'd even bet the 13PD thing was just some sick game they played on us.
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Cup1d on November 03, 2012, 07:17:21 pm
I'm quite sure, that it must be possible to use quiver of standart arrows as blunt weapon with crushthrough ability. Now this quiver weigh more than Great Maul. I can live with 88 weapon lenght. This will justify this Big Idea of our balancers.
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Cup1d on November 03, 2012, 07:20:40 pm
Quote from: Perceval on November 03, 2012, 07:16:32 pm
Call me paranoid but I think it's a bit odd they first introduced the weirdest and wrong way to deal with the problem, got everyone raging about the patch and then came up with a decent solution. Now kiting's nerfed and even the ranged are happy about it.
I'd even bet the 13PD thing was just some sick game they played on us.

I'm one of this nonstandart archers with 1slot bow and 2hander as secondary weapon. I do not run from melee. I can tell you more - I've got even quantity of melee and ranged kills. And I call this patch bullshit.
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Nordwolf on November 03, 2012, 07:24:50 pm
Quote from: Cup1d on November 03, 2012, 07:20:40 pm
I'm one of this nonstandart archers with 1slot bow and 2hander as secondary weapon. I do not run from melee. I can tell you more - I've got even quantity of melee and ranged kills. And I call this patch bullshit.

This thread is for appreciation of removing athletic nerf :)

Although I don't like the new nerf too, it doesn't brake the game that much.
At least we can think of this as a hotfix. Hope for better archer fix soon enough.
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Turk_Otto_Knight on November 03, 2012, 07:27:38 pm
Quote from: Turk_Otto_Knight on May 31, 2012, 04:27:28 pm
Arrows should be get heavier so they cant run like chickens  8-)

on: May 31, 2012
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Perceval on November 03, 2012, 07:40:49 pm
Just drop the bow and quivers before engaging in melee. Quite a bit more trouble than you were used too but it adds to the gameplay as you may want to retreive it at some point. Hell, it's realistic. This fix is awesome.
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Turk_Otto_Knight on November 03, 2012, 07:49:09 pm
Quote from: Kulin_ban on November 03, 2012, 07:37:52 pm
So, half a year of cry......lobbying to get your whi......suggestion implemented. Will write that one down.

dude im an archer too
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Cup1d on November 03, 2012, 07:51:32 pm
Quote from: Perceval on November 03, 2012, 07:40:49 pm
Just drop the bow and quivers before engaging in melee. Quite a bit more trouble than you were used too but it adds to the gameplay as you may want to retreive it at some point. Hell, it's realistic. This fix is awesome.

Realistic arrow weight is 0.025-0.040 kg. 20 arrows will weigh 0.8 kg. Stop your realistic comments please. This fix is crap. Even this fix is not enough to add little more brains to army of our pussycats melee heroes
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Frankysan on November 03, 2012, 08:49:42 pm
Quote from: Cup1d on November 03, 2012, 07:51:32 pm
Realistic arrow weight is 0.025-0.040 kg. 20 arrows will weigh 0.8 kg. Stop your realistic comments please. This fix is crap. Even this fix is not enough to add little more brains to army of our pussycats melee heroes
you should tnx god that devs can't stand all the crying and every nerf get reversed in 24h 90% of times because of ppl posting crap no stop.
They will say it was intended etc etc, but  we didn't even had a chance to see how the new archery worked; a smart move would have been to fix the pd accuracy stacking and balance out the ath malus...
now you are not even happy with the weight thing, so what is that you want? being able to kite and jumpshoot likea  boss hitting like a truck with 100% accuracy?
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Rhekimos on November 03, 2012, 09:04:38 pm
Silly, but still a much better way to alter how the game is played than destroying builds.
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Uumdi on November 03, 2012, 09:07:15 pm
Thanks guys, awesome change.  I have yet to play around with the new weights, but it gives more reason behind carrying 1 or 2 stacks into battle.  Even lighter, faster archers are going to need to place shots that count, rather than firing dozens of blanks, hoping they hit a cloud of people across the map.
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Belatu on November 03, 2012, 09:18:23 pm
I think the real problem is that ANY of the people who are building this mod is an archer or have been an archer for a long time so they doesnt really know how to figure out what is going on

but anyway, you got my respect, as usual.


 
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Lemmy_Winks on November 03, 2012, 10:38:45 pm
Im cav and i approve of this change. It used to be when kiling archers they would be so fast theyd jump to the side or could run around in zig zags making it difficult to kill them. They are now so slow its almost as easy as hitting a stationary target.
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Mwahahaha on November 03, 2012, 10:50:41 pm
I`m moving like full plated knight, but this is better than yesterday )
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Juhanius on November 03, 2012, 10:58:51 pm
Thank you this was right thing to do. Also this affects positively to arrow spamming...if you still want be somewhat agile you will propably use only one stack of arrows.
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on November 03, 2012, 11:51:15 pm
well archers can still decently run, remove jumpshooting and everything would be perfect. and archers shooting around shields...but meh...
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Froto_the_Loc on November 03, 2012, 11:53:51 pm
All I've seen is "the nerf" or "the change"!
What the hell happened?!
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on November 03, 2012, 11:57:37 pm
oh, and since when is archery so accurate?

getting headshot really often. and the number of archers is insanely high

ps : really really high

ps2 : ah i can't take this anymore, even with a sheild you get stuck in a intense crossfire. be back when this all calms down
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: LordBerenger on November 04, 2012, 12:08:15 am
Guess it's a buff to peeps with +3 loomed arrows who gets more ammo but can still use 1 stack. Say...+3 Tatar Arrows maybe.
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: XyNox on November 04, 2012, 12:26:59 am
Jumping into a server after a 2 week break with my lvl 33 archer I noticed:

Movement speed heavily nerfed
Missile speed nerfed
Missile drop nerfed
Draw speed nerfed
Damage nerfed (?)

Dodging light/medium horses now close to impossible
Ghost arrows still not fixed
Hitting a shield with an arrow no longer interrupts a couch

Reticule hold time buffed a bit

Correct ?
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Kafein on November 04, 2012, 12:28:25 am
Afaik missile speed, drop and damage have been buffed, if you use the new optimal build
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Leshma on November 04, 2012, 12:44:17 am
Quote from: Mlekce on November 03, 2012, 05:17:16 pm
arrows now have weight of 7-10 kg. :lol:

Quote from: Leshma on June 11, 2012, 11:27:13 pm
4) New quiver weight - 2*currentweight*30% (not realistic at all I know but it's there to stop archers from running)

Arrow TypeOld weightNew weightModifier
Arrows510x2
Barbed Arrows4.59x2
Tatar Arrows48x2
Bodkin Arrows3.57x2

Guess they ignored the 30% part :P
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Moncho on November 04, 2012, 12:54:15 am
And the doubling the arrows and slots amount as well. Yours was just a rework, this is a weight increase
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Fips on November 04, 2012, 01:20:53 pm
Horsearchers are a pain in the ass now, though.
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Bronto on November 04, 2012, 02:22:02 pm
Even through all the kiting tears, I was more in favor of the str archer because it forced melee. I mean going 30/9 and having 10pd and 10ps and being able to hit like a ton of bricks will hopefully still be viable.
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Piok on November 04, 2012, 02:40:08 pm
One nice day with nerfed accuracy before they find glitch. One day without constant zig zag or to be killed by small dot on horizon. Now they are back (slightly nerfed at least affect xbows also).
Archery is once more retarded strafing self sufficient unit effective against all.
But seeing psychopathic river of tears was worth of it.

In my opinion biggest loser are Danish 2hspamers and 4directional pole users. Undeserved buff in many 2h make polearmers even more useless. Not to mention damage buff for those baseball bat/axe users.
   
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Blackbow on November 05, 2012, 05:35:01 am
i tested to play with heavier armor + new weight of arrows ... it's just unplayable u look like stuck on the ground...
increase weight of arrows is rly not the good option ...

and i still dont understand why we dont get free respec after every big change ...

imo the solution is to decrease body dmg of 30 % keep hs dmg and increase missile speed (like it was in past)  to counter the ghost arrows effect
and why buff the longbow when ppl cry about archery do to many dmg ???
it's stupid no ??

but btw let this mod die in peace
and let's go play on chivalry and natural selection 2 =p
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Vibe on November 05, 2012, 07:54:46 am
Quote from: Everkistus on November 03, 2012, 05:14:24 pm
This arrow weight increase is a much better fix against kiting archers than fucking up our builds.

except it doesn't fix kiting at all, was still kited by every archer I met (6 ath medium armor), so I'm not convinced this change actually altered archer run speed much
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: dodnet on November 05, 2012, 08:10:13 am
Devs just implemented these features, they fully describe the heavy weight:

(click to show/hide)

 :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Thanks for reversing the archery ath nerf!
Post by: Joker86 on November 05, 2012, 10:28:35 am
Although I think it's a pity the devs still stick to changing the movement speeds of the different classes, it is good to see the ATH nerf gone. It just didn't work.

On the other hand, right now while writing this, I think I would tend rather to have tried sticking to the ATH nerf and tweaking it a bit. The entire class of archers could have benefited from such a change and gained a little bit diversity.

Like I said, having to choose between WPF and ATH is no choice at all, so basically ATH was removed for archers. But if you implemented a mechanic with a good tradeoff where both extremes and the values between those are valid choices, you would have more diversity.

How about that:

- ATH only starts to reduce WPF on higher values, like ATH 7 or the like

- every point PD above 3 or 4 reduces the WPF-penalty-free ATH value above by 1. So if you have PD 4 you can only have ATH 5 without penalty, PD 5 means ATH 4 and so on.

- I guess with this change you need to have PD lower WPF a bit again, otherwise I suppose the PD builds will be much more popular than the ATH builds.