cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Tzar on October 24, 2012, 09:32:50 pm

Title: Market place dead?
Post by: Tzar on October 24, 2012, 09:32:50 pm
Is the market place completely dead now? or have people given up looking into supply an demand before putting up stupid offers?

(click to show/hide)

[Note] My screenshot just show an example not all of the offers are stupid but the majority dont have even half the demand as the item in question FX.

The reason i ask is because before people used to check what you could get for the item before demanding gold on top of trades

FX: item A have tons of offers item B has 1 or 2....

Now that way people knew that it was stupid to demand extra for a trade if your own item only had 1 or 2 offers againts the item you wanted had 10 or 11..

Now im not butthurt just a bit annoyed that people dont think before putting out offers for an item... is it because we have clan armouries or is it because people dont check up on items anymore too lasy? i dunno you tell me  :lol: atm it just doenst make sense to trade anymore since the timespan between decent deals are rare...  :lol:
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: Bjord on October 24, 2012, 10:20:22 pm
I share your frustration. Which is why I only trade on the forums, so market sharks like Angelwhore can do whatever they want and anyone desperate enough to accept his offer can suit themselves. I only put up trades once I got an agreement with someone.
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: oprah_winfrey on October 24, 2012, 10:27:10 pm
I think it is more the fact that people have looms they are mostly happy with, but if they can trade it away for a profit, they are more then happy to do so.
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on October 24, 2012, 10:52:50 pm
I think it is more the fact that people have looms they are mostly happy with, but if they can trade it away for a profit, they are more then happy to do so.


Likely this, the marketplace has finally stabilized.
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: dynamike on October 24, 2012, 11:46:21 pm

Likely this, the marketplace has finally stabilized.

We need a revolution!
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: Teeth on October 24, 2012, 11:48:40 pm

Likely this, the marketplace has finally stabilized.
Now would be a good time to remove looms from the game. Oh could you imagine the tears!
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: Joker86 on October 25, 2012, 12:09:01 am
Now would be a good time to remove looms from the game. Oh could you imagine the tears!

Although risking a lot of -1's, but I never liked the idea of the market place or used it. The only purpose of the market place is shifting values between characters, which means one character will most likely end up with more (or less) value than the other one. Scamming, profeteering, turning the game into an economic simulator and a lot of other things always made the idea of the marketplace look kind of pointless to me. I don't see any necessary improvement the marketplace has brought to the game. It even finally cut the last thin nerve which was left of the already broken spine of the upkeep system. Retire once, disable upkeep system, wear whatever equipment you want.

In short: I wouldn't mind seeing the market place gone. It has only brought evil upon us. I guess I stand pretty alone with this opinion, though.  :?
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: Teeth on October 25, 2012, 12:17:29 am
Although risking a lot of -1's, but I never liked the idea of the market place or used it. The only purpose of the market place is shifting values between characters, which means one character will most likely end up with more (or less) value than the other one. Scamming, profeteering, turning the game into an economic simulator and a lot of other things always made the idea of the marketplace look kind of pointless to me. I don't see any necessary improvement the marketplace has brought to the game. It even finally cut the last thin nerve which was left of the already broken spine of the upkeep system. Retire once, disable upkeep system, wear whatever equipment you want.

In short: I wouldn't mind seeing the market place gone. It has only brought evil upon us. I guess I stand pretty alone with this opinion, though.  :?
You'd rather be stuck playing the same class forever cause you happen to have looms for it?
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: Tzar on October 25, 2012, 12:21:06 am
Joker yes you can avoid the upkeep system thx to the market place but then again i dont mind since ive always found the upkeep system to be completely pointless since the only OP items left after the shit storm of nerfs are the steroid horses  :lol:

Btw we gettin off topic  :?:  :lol:
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: Joker86 on October 25, 2012, 12:29:43 am
You'd rather be stuck playing the same class forever cause you happen to have looms for it?

No, but then I would make a fix system: Get a diamond/gold coin/whatever for your loomed item, and buy loomed items for the fix price of one of those currency units (per loom level, ofc). Yes, some looms are worth more than others, but if you don't have a choice you will pay the price for +3 stones as well as for  +3 flamberge, if you really want it. It's not like with the current system people who are looming stones would NOT lose value  :wink:

And even if you find a flaw in my idea (which can be very well, as I just made it up the moment I wrote it), I bet there are hundreds of other possible solutions, which have way less flaws than the market place. Using your limitation on equipment as currency is not the smartest move  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: Torost on October 25, 2012, 12:33:14 am
The tax kills an active market.
So people avoid trading in gold. Trading in loompoints or items instead.

situation: You are tired of your weapon,armor,horse..etc.

You offerto sell  your MW item for sale for 1million gold. After tax you have 950.
You make an offer for the new MW item you want for 1 million gold, and have to pay 1,05 million gold.

You are out 100K gold by changing gear. And took a risk that you could get stuck, not able to buy back anything at that price.

This makes a marked where the patient trader and angleshooters profit by flipping items slowly.

the prices have a limit low and high.

No MW should be sold for more than the price of 3 loompoints. And not less than 2loompoin since the blacksmith sets the floor.
And the 10% cost in taxes in between this doesnt make for alot of tradingmargin.

Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: TurmoilTom on October 25, 2012, 12:40:56 am
The only purpose of the market place is shifting values between characters, which means one character will most likely end up with more (or less) value than the other one.

Do you even understand the concept behind trading?
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: To Kill A Dead Horse on October 25, 2012, 12:50:48 am
Do you even lift?
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: agweber on October 25, 2012, 01:00:29 am
Doing trades like these allow newbies such as myself to have enough pocket change to afford their first MW item without having played for years or every hour of every day.
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: Joker86 on October 25, 2012, 01:11:59 am
Do you even understand the concept behind trading?

I do. That's why I think it is wrong in a game where balance is important. I want all players to have characters of absolutely the same value. (Ofc different levels and really bad builds are not taken nto account).
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: LordBerenger on October 25, 2012, 01:14:34 am
I do. That's why I think it is wrong in a game where balance is important. I want all players to have characters of absolutely the same value. (Ofc different levels and really bad builds are not taken nto account).

Too short. Rephrase yourself in 500 more letters than you already got.
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: Gristle on October 25, 2012, 02:29:48 am
I personally never liked the market. The devs used it as an excuse to not refund heirloom points when they broke weapons, and then it became impossible to get a fair deal on the weapons anyway since everyone knew the weapon sucked at that time. I always thought we should have been given an heirloom respec option instead.

Being able to directly buy heirloom points now is pretty cool though.
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: Kafein on October 25, 2012, 02:41:03 am
But ow can I haz titlez witout merkel profitz ?

No, seriously, the trading game is fun. At times, funnier than cRPG.
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: Macropus on October 25, 2012, 09:51:16 am
Actually marketplace is nice if you follow the main rule: do not accept anybody's offer, create your own one.
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: Vibe on October 25, 2012, 09:59:15 am
I'm being completely honest when I add a "where YOU make profit" tag to my shop. That is because I do not trade for profit, I trade because I actually just want to exchange my looms. This is why I often give a nice amount of gold for looms I really want. Whenever I'm respeccing/retiring I lose about 200k gold in trades because of this. I don't mind because I'm not trying to pile up a massive amount of gold and looms.

Check my shoppe:
http://forum.meleegaming.com/selltrade/vibe%27s-trades/msg586132/#msg586132
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: Fartface on October 25, 2012, 11:51:58 am
I used to make around 1.5m profit each week , now after tax I got myself  6mw´s and I got 10k gold tax ruined me!
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: Falka on October 25, 2012, 12:15:21 pm
I don't see any problem with market. Nobody has to accept offers which he finds unreasonable. When I want some item I pay for it whatever seller demands, e.g. for +3 dark cav robe I traded in +3 normal cav robe and on the top added 315 k and I think it was fair deal. But if I have items which I don't use I put a couple of offers on the market demanding some extra gold. If someone will accept - great, if not - great as well.

Now that way people knew that it was stupid to demand extra for a trade if your own item only had 1 or 2 offers againts the item you wanted had 10 or 11..

Now im not butthurt just a bit annoyed that people dont think before putting out offers for an item...

You're wrong. It's more than probable that someone will accept any offer, no matter how stupid you think it is. Checking supply and demand is also waste of time if you're not looking for any specific item.
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: Kafein on October 25, 2012, 12:31:22 pm
What Tzar points out is that the spread (difference between minimal selling and maximal buying price) is high, which is a sign of bad market fluidity.

There are only a few reasons for this :

- The tax, because people don't want to trade things for gold
- Rare items come in extremely short supply, most of it already in the hands of those that use them (throwing weapons are a good example). And the demand is rather low too, so few new items arrive).
- Common items (like a MW DGS) have become speculation toys, because everyone that needs one already has it.
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: Falka on October 25, 2012, 12:57:57 pm
What Tzar points out is that the spread (difference between minimal selling and maximal buying price) is high,

But is it a problem? If you want to buy rare and at the same time good item you have to expect to either pay decent amount of gold or trade in another rare item and maybe even add some gold. Seems fair in my opinion.

- The tax, because people don't want to trade things for gold

People don't want to buy for gold, but they're more than willing to sell for gold. Ofc not for 800 k, but from my experience 1.2 - 1.25 mln allows to buy any item in no time.
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: peter_afca7 on October 25, 2012, 01:33:21 pm
Now would be a good time to remove looms from the game. Oh could you imagine the tears!
cRPG is FUN because of the retirements and as reward LP so if they get removed why playing for nothing?
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: Riddaren on October 25, 2012, 01:42:52 pm
cRPG is FUN because of the retirements and as reward LP so if they get removed why playing for nothing?

Don't mind Teeth. He complains a lot.
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: Fartface on October 25, 2012, 02:08:28 pm
The fact that I can't trade my +3 wisby gauntlets for +3 heavy gauntlets means evrything , already up for 4 days and nobody accepted.
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: SixThumbs on October 25, 2012, 05:19:43 pm
This is funny because I had just considered putting up a thread involving some PMs where I had made the trader an even more ridiculous offer.
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: Kafein on October 25, 2012, 05:53:58 pm
Don't mind Teeth. He complains a lot.

I think someone opening an arcade near Teeth's home would become a millionaire.


But is it a problem? If you want to buy rare and at the same time good item you have to expect to either pay decent amount of gold or trade in another rare item and maybe even add some gold. Seems fair in my opinion.

I never said it was bad, I just mean there is not so much activity on the marketplace. You have situations like "offer A : item X vs item Y + 100k gold, offer B : item Y vs item X + 100k gold". Either people are really patient, either they think their item is better, in which case it is strange they want to exchange it in the first place.

People don't want to buy for gold, but they're more than willing to sell for gold. Ofc not for 800 k, but from my experience 1.2 - 1.25 mln allows to buy any item in no time.

That's usually coming down to the same thing. Gold itself is not usable on anything, except a small amout of it (compared to the amount of gold in usual heirloom trades) for upkeep. Selling something for gold usually means you are going to buy something else with the gold. People that do that without booths lose a lot of gold through the tax.
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: 3 Tears on October 25, 2012, 06:05:51 pm
Whats happened Tzar? Weren't you one of those jews you are talking about?

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Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: 3 Tears on October 25, 2012, 06:19:57 pm
Oh, I've just looked at the offers you SS'd. And you know what? More than half of them are fair!

Lets look closer:
(click to show/hide)

Conclusion:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: Turboflex on October 25, 2012, 08:09:17 pm
I think part of it is cuz a lot of the people who are on the market are basically professional traders and are all looking to "win" trades by arbitraging this spread, so are tacking on an extra 50 or 100k when it's not really necessary.

One other prob is also that volume is down because of the clan armoury. Right now you can't trade items that you have deposited into your clan armoury, which means you have to choose between letting clanmates enjoy surplus heirlooms or trying to trade them. I think a lot of people are just leaving them in armoury while they try to broker trades on forums which is less efficient.
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: Wrangham on October 25, 2012, 08:14:02 pm
Auction with no tax or a nominal tax should be the only means of exchanging items.

There's basically two hypotheses in this thread:

1) The OP - the marketplace is a conglomeration of scammers looking to make unreasonable profits off of suckers.

and 2) people who disagree - the marketplace is a result of market forces shaping the value of X item relative to Y item.

In either case or a combination of both, why not just let the auction system do all the work? Auction is simpler than a convoluted system of clicking through hundreds of items to see what is being offered for what, auction works more quickly, and auction prevents scamming people with terrible offers. The only people who can possibly defend the current market system are scammers and people with the unreasonable expectation that an item can be sold at above market-value prices based on their personal sentimental attachment.
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: agweber on October 25, 2012, 09:21:02 pm
In either case or a combination of both, why not just let the auction system do all the work?
Because you have to put your gold into the auction just to have them withdraw the offer is why the auction system doesn't do all of the work.
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: Leshma on October 25, 2012, 10:36:22 pm
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Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: oprah_winfrey on October 25, 2012, 10:47:14 pm
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Wow, that is like...almost 100 dollars.
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: ThePoopy on October 25, 2012, 10:53:41 pm
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Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: oprah_winfrey on October 25, 2012, 10:54:32 pm
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Wow, that is like...almost I have no idea.
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: Jarlek on October 25, 2012, 11:25:35 pm
Wow, that is like...almost I have no idea.
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Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: agweber on October 25, 2012, 11:49:36 pm
(click to show/hide)
I don't think they understand that the chance and community chest cards go face down.
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: Leshma on October 26, 2012, 01:31:56 am
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"You asked me if I was in the meth business or the money business. Neither. I’m in the empire business."
Title: Re: Market place dead?
Post by: Mlekce on October 26, 2012, 01:58:07 am
cRPG is FUN because of the retirements and as reward LP so if they get removed why playing for nothing?
If you play for that,then stop playing it while u still can save ur time.
I have 3 body armors,one gloves,one shield,one sword mw and every fool in this game have at elast 2-3 mw items so you don't have any advantage for having those.
You just waisted ur life on shit where you after playing over one year and grinding over 16 gens can't beat half of community in duel,and getting raped by archers,high lvl 2h heroes and golden horde of lancers every time u are on eu1.
Go for lvl 31+ and play when you are realy boored and don't have anything to do.
Grinding doesn't pay off,and it is so fustrating and it takes too long and doesn't give you any advantage since only old players play this mod and they have over 10 looms each.
If you ask me i would remove grind,looms and multi system. it is all crap.