cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Huey Newton on October 19, 2012, 09:41:02 am
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You're all shit :lol:
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I voted cav.
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would read again.
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lol every time i read about how agi build are "harder" to play i roll on the floor.
18/24 two handers of all kingdoms, you suck!
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agibuilds is the easiest shit there is.. which dillusional my old friendit told you that slander?
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3 attribute system (STR, CON, AGI) with scaling point buy system, the closer you are to max the more it begins to cost, just like WPF
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agi build is easier but str is more effective when footwork and positioning are done right
I get trolled a lot but the truth is most people can't stand being str... they need speed crutch
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agi build is easier but str is more effective when footwork and positioning are done right
I get trolled a lot but the truth is most people can't stand being str... they need speed crutch
this!!
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FYI, most ppl don't consider a 18 24 or 24 18 an agi or str build
36 - 3
9 - 30
Staying alive AND contributing to the team is harder as an agi build. Have to be good at it to get points/ kills.
A lucky strike of an agi build makes someones cheek itch, a lucky strike of a str build obliterates your face beyond recognition.
So yes an str build is easier for noobs, that doesn't mean there is no such thing as a pro str-build player.
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Ever tried 9/30? Try 9/30 then come back and say that agi builds are easy.
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It's ridiculous how easy it is to play STR build. Just look at all the robocops, taking 6-7 hits before dropping while they 2 hit everyone else.
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agi build is easier but str is more effective when footwork and positioning are done right
I get trolled a lot but the truth is most people can't stand being str... they need speed crutch
hahahahahahahhaha
It's ridiculous how easy it is to play STR build. Just look at all the robocops, taking 6-7 hits before dropping while they 2 hit everyone else.
^
truth
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agi build is easier but str is more effective when footwork and positioning are done right
I get trolled a lot but the truth is most people can't stand being str... they need speed crutch
hahahahahahahahahahhaha
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agi build is easier but str is more effective when footwork and positioning are done right
I get trolled a lot but the truth is most people can't stand being str... they need speed crutch
Just because you strength crutch doesn't mean you have to make the other strength crutchers sound stupid as fuck.
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agi build is easier but str is more effective when footwork and positioning are done right
I get trolled a lot but the truth is most people can't stand being str... they need speed crutch
You are fucking adorable with this shit dude. God damn
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It's ridiculous how easy it is to play STR build. Just look at all the robocops, taking 6-7 hits before dropping while they 2 hit everyone else.
you need to be able to hit to kill ppl; and having lower ath/wpf requires by far better positioning and leave you by far less space for footwork errors. 7ath and more just let you jump around like a crack ninja with a greatsword even in medium/heavy armor, still dealing some insane damage tnx to speedbonus.
easy solution: make greatswords/top tier 2h/poles require more STR. You want run like Bolt with a 2h? fine, but you have to stick with a low dmg weapon. Don't even get me started about weapons with 12 STR req, 43 cut DMG and 96 speed.
STR build may have higher potential in the hand of a skilled fighter, but a very average player can make a skip the fun char in medium armor with a danish or a GLA , go 15(or16)/24 and rape like a boss.
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you need to be able to hit to kill ppl; and having lower ath/wpf requires by far better positioning and leave you by far less space for footwork errors. 7ath and more just let you jump around like a crack ninja with a greatsword even in medium/heavy armor, still dealing some insane damage tnx to speedbonus.
easy solution: make greatswords/top tier 2h/poles require more STR. You want run like Bolt with a 2h? fine, but you have to stick with a low dmg weapon. Don't even get me started about weapons with 12 STR req, 43 cut DMG and 96 speed.
STR build may have higher potential in the hand of a skilled fighter, but a very average player can make a skip the fun char in medium armor with a danish or a GLA , go 15(or16)/24 and rape like a boss.
Enjoy getting one shot because you think you can out-footwork my glaive, nerd.
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Enjoy getting one shot because you think you can out-footwork my glaive, nerd.
you should be ashamed of using a glaive in the first place, noob!!! 8-)
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you should be ashamed of using a glaive in the first place, noob.
I'm 30/12 with 10 IF and 10 PS. I don't think I'm worried about shame.
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I'm 30/12 with 10 IF and 10 PS. I don't think I'm worried about shame.
then you are a MAN but still a my old friendgy one!
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I'm 30/12 with 10 IF and 10 PS. I don't think I'm worried about shame.
Thats low ...
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Any shit player can spec 36/3 and do well. With a build like that you can make 10 mistakes and 2 shot anyone how is that hard?
I'm 30/12 with 10 IF and 10 PS. I don't think I'm worried about shame.
Strength crutching puutie
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18/18
Bitches.
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Any shit player can spec 36/3 and do well. With a build like that you can make 10 mistakes and 2 shot anyone how is that hard?
Strength crutching puutie
if you can't block/outmanoeuvre a guy with 1 ath it's time to quit. If we are talking about team fight situations i understand your frustration, but those guys are usually early focused if your team is anywhere close to decent.
And my last word: real men use balanced builds. Those shine in no particular situation but can always excel if played right; wich means you are not aboozing your ath/ps/if, but doing it smart with superior "skill"/brain.
btw this is going nowhere, i suggest you all go post more nurf in the nerf archers post!!
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And my last word: real men use balanced builds.
Finally something we can both agree on.
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Just because you strength crutch doesn't mean you have to make the other strength crutchers sound stupid as fuck.
you have 15 agility... you are def a high lvl crutch
don't talk to me about sounding stupid as fuck i've been in ts with you plenty
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balanced builds are by far the easiest and always have been.
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FYI, most ppl don't consider a 18 24 or 24 18 an agi or str build
36 - 3
9 - 30
Staying alive AND contributing to the team is harder as an agi build. Have to be good at it to get points/ kills.
A lucky strike of an agi build makes someones cheek itch, a lucky strike of a str build obliterates your face beyond recognition.
So yes an str build is easier for noobs, that doesn't mean there is no such thing as a pro str-build player.
I guess what I consider a agi build is 15+ agi... thats 5 ath...
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I guess what I consider a agi build is 15+ agi... thats 5 ath...
You can be 24/15 and that's very clearly not an agi build.
Please stop viewing the world from the perspective of 36/3
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Idk why you guys are even arguing Xbow builds are obviously the easiest, get an arbalest or a reg Xbow get a good position and shoot. Easy kills all day if you can aim and know good spots to be in. Proof of this is karma ;P hahaha but seriously I liked rhalys bettar when he had that GLB.
Balanced builds are the most fun! 21/21 far superior to everything
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balanced builds are by far the easiest and always have been.
and you always been the king of bundle of stickss!
edit: i was rude man but :rolleyes: that's a declaration of low IQ :mrgreen:
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I voted that agi is harder. I feel like you have to know your role, target, and blocking extremely well to do much of anything. Every bad player I've ever known to go 36/3 did fucking terribly, though, and in many cases specced out of it because it was unbearable. I know on my agi builds I loved coming across lumbering targets to massacre, hell ask sosarian how many times I hunted him down when I was 12/27. My problem as agi wasn't people with a lot of str, it was cav bumps and archers that run faster than you unless you're wearing low enough armor to let them 2 shot you in the body.
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and you always been the king of bundle of stickss!
edit: i was rude man but :rolleyes: that's a declaration of low IQ :mrgreen:
Well its true, they provide the most adaptable and easiest mixture of both. Being able to play well in all game modes and map types.
Agi builds serve better on battles, on relatively flat maps with good cover.
Str builds will do better on siege, on town maps and maps where ranged does more damage.
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I will say, Casimir, my latest agi build ended up being my most dominant melee build ever for siege. Steel pick is amazing for tearing up people with armor and any 1h sword with lower-end requirements will shred everything else. This whole "agi sucks in siege" thing is completely ridiculous to me, especially when siege is largely a mode of logistics.
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Totaly depends on what build you are fighting against.
A 39/3 with a maul could easily chamber crush any 3/39 with a pitchfork.
A 3/39 could spam any 39/3 if he's not using a fast weapon or doesnt know how to chamber.
So it does not depend on your build if it's "easier" or "harder" . Totally depends on your oponents and your own combat-brain-usage and skill.
And thats the good thing with crpg. You can be highly succesful with a build that most other players would suck at - developing your own style and individual fighting skill.
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Totaly depends on what build you are fighting against.
A 39/3 with a maul could easily chamber crush any 3/39 with a pitchfork.
A 3/39 could spam any 39/3 if he's not using a fast weapon or doesnt know how to chamber.
So it does not depend on your build if it's "easier" or "harder" . Totally depends on your oponents and your own combat-brain-usage and skill.
And thats the good thing with crpg. You can be highly succesful with a build that most other players would suck at - developing your own style and individual fighting skill.
Chase in a nutshell, even if he goes archer he can still kill tincans with his little pick :)
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This coming from an guy who ran 39/3 for 10 gens and even went 39/3 lvl 32 version , it's EASY AS FUCK if you know how to just like every other class. With loomed armour & wep I could take around 11-12 hits and at the same time one hit evrything with my mighty mallet / morningstar / long iron mace. But if my team got owned or I had poor awereness I just get ganked and die.
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On Siege pure strenght is 100% king.
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agi build is easier but str is more effective when footwork and positioning are done right
I get trolled a lot but the truth is most people can't stand being str... they need speed crutch
Only dedicated agi build i like is 13 riding or 13 ath builds. Otherwise STR > AGI.
Rather be a buff #SWOLE warrior than a puny tiny stick with a 2handed greatsword flying around your enemy like a butterfly.
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I will say, Casimir, my latest agi build ended up being my most dominant melee build ever for siege. Steel pick is amazing for tearing up people with armor and any 1h sword with lower-end requirements will shred everything else. This whole "agi sucks in siege" thing is completely ridiculous to me, especially when siege is largely a mode of logistics.
The main problem with siege is the movement speed nerf really reduces the effectiveness of athletics, its far easier to fall back and defend key points than to move from place to place all the time. In such a case survivability rather than manoeuvrability is by far the easier one.
Remember this is not a discussion of what is best, just which is hardest.
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easy solution: make greatswords/top tier 2h/poles require more STR.
I'm already salty that it takes till level 12-15 to pick up a battle axe. A 3/3 build is still a grown ass man, and any peasant could pick up an axe to defend his home. For the sake of game balance, I think its appropriate where weapons are now though. I would never suggest letting people play 12 str Flamberge and Great Long Bardiche builds, but its bogus enough that you can't pick up your favorite weapon for 10+ levels even when pumping full strength with point conversions - even some mid-tier ones like a persian battle axe, or a support weapon like the english bill. I miss the ol' 15/24 english billd.
Could pull a dick move and make the greatswords 16/17 str - a non-multiple of 3, but still over 15.
Honestly though - as far as agi vs. strength goes, it depends on how far they stray from balance.
18/18, great. Some would argue too slow to warrant being so weak. No real edge, aside from being able to utilize skill points.
18/21 - lethal speed, just enough damage
21/18 - lethal damage, just enough speed
This is where straying from balance makes the strength argument merit
You can stack as high as 27/12 and still be able to utilize impressive footwork, more than enough to warrant sacrificing the athletics. You can deal lethal damage to ANY character, light or heavy.
When you invert that to 12/27, you still have an extremely lethal build. Here and beyond lie the cons that start to outweight the pros with agility. Survivability is the major deciding factor. Everyone focuses on damage - the ability to affect the world around them, because that's how we are as people. Take into account getting killed in 1-2 shots from ranged, 1-2 swings from melee, a couple horse bumps, even (and especially) teamwounds. STR also affects your maneuverability in heavier armors. It allows you to make more mistakes. We're flawed, we lapse focus at times, we get outnumbered at times, we miscalculate and even get fucked over at times.
K:D doesn't mean much, but if its anything to go by, my KDs for my 27/12 english bill gens were significantly higher than my 18/21 gens. Personally I prefer my 18/21 build, but I was certainly in my prime in heavy armor, 27/12, backed by a squad of incredible teamplayers. High strength is just as much a teamplay build as an agility is, because being more grounded, you should really take responsibility and be in the frontline. Gutting guys, avoiding hits, blocking pikes, watching your flanks and covering those of others in massive melee engagements, pretty much demands that you perform well. If you're a 12/27, you'd die from the first mistake made, and nobody would judge you for it because they wouldn't know any better themselves. With focus and commitment, strength grants you lethality and survivability across the board. Agility only allows you better control of choosing your battles. You only need as much as the situation demands. Strength has a much more passive benefit, and I think that's what bothers people.
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I'm currently 15/21 shortened military scythe cav and was one-shotting people in chain mail by 12 strength. On foot I wear heavy ass pronoia, and still catch most archers running away, or at least match their speed. 12/27 studded warclub, or shield are fun builds. 27/12 was my best performance. 18/21 was my first infantry build ever, and is still my favorite. Its all about positioning on the battlefield, and agility does not and SHOULD not dictate that, but rather your mind should. Think about the bigger picture and consider weapon types, damage types, and versatility.
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I will say, Casimir, my latest agi build ended up being my most dominant melee build ever for siege. Steel pick is amazing for tearing up people with armor and any 1h sword with lower-end requirements will shred everything else. This whole "agi sucks in siege" thing is completely ridiculous to me, especially when siege is largely a mode of logistics.
Weapon type, damage type, and positioning, absolutely.
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INT build is the hardest.
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agi is very useful for eu1. hell gotta dodge the arrows of the 15 archers on the enemy team every round :P
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There is no such thing as an easy/hard class in general imo.
What is hardest to play depends on many things: The map, the teams and your own skill.
What might be "easy mode" for a noob, might be much harder for a veteran player and vice versa (relative to players of equal skill).
A noob will in general be more successful using a strength build, which can take more hits and deal more damage.
Yes, a noob being useless at manual blocking can use a shield and come winning out of a duel because of it.
Yes, a noob can use a horse and just run over people and get a few kills each rounds even though most of his attacks fail.
And anyone can be annoying and "OP" being a HA or HX...
But once you become really good at this game:
- You have almost full awareness
- You can block flawlessly
- You master chambering
- You master kicking
Use an agile build with lots of athletics and you are bascially immune to melee damage.
With the high athletics and good awareness you can dodge projectiles pretty damn good as well.
Add a shield and you are invulnerable.
Name ONE very good player, who performs better in MOST situations with a strength build than with an agile build.
For example: 27/12 instead of 12/27.
I haven't seen anyone yet and I've played this game for 1,5 years.
Yes, vs noobs a strength build might be better, but I'm talking about veterans vs veterans here.
Most people in here have played this game for very long.
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Ever tried 9/30? Try 9/30 then come back and say that agi builds are easy.
I have a 3/36 character (1ps 12at 12wm).
If I play my best I top the scoreboard with it.
If I go 36/3 I will eventually end up being ganked due to my low speed which makes it:
- impossible to keep up with the team
- impossible to fight outnumbered
It's not easy to play full agility. Sometimes, you just die, really quick.
But the other times you stay alive until the end of a round.
That's not really the case with a strength build.
You usually get killed somewhere in the middle of a round.
With that said, an agility build atleast gives you the possibility to dominate totally.
You can kill 10 guys on your own being the last on your team. That is not the case with a strength build.
Furthermore, but that is just my personal opinion, it's so much more fun being fast than slow.
36/3 is one of the most boring builds I've played.
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Ever tried 9/30? Try 9/30 then come back and say that agi builds are easy.
I'm 9/30 and its hard. I can hit an str build in armor 6-9 times in a row without them dying, but they can one shot me.
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This again eh?
I actually agree with Digglez in a way here...just decouple Strength and HP, the massive HP gain from strength alone is the only thing that bothers me really. Either make it a 3 Stat system or take the 1HP gain off of strength and have IF give you 3 or something.
I'm 22/21 so.....im about as balanced as you get lol.
So....NERF STRENGTH AND AGILITY BUILDS! :)
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Name ONE very good player, who performs better in MOST situations with a strength build than with an agile build.
Allers or Rhaelys or Miley to name just a few, or even Tydeus (I'm sorry Tydeus but you were more scary back when you STR/Armor crutched with the 'dao and 27/12).
Sad thing is, with teamwork you need Agi less and less.
Then again, I'm a 24/18 (used to be 24/21 before I respeced) so whatevs.
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I'm pretty sure Miley is 21/21. I would not call that a strength build.
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Fuck you too Huey.
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If I go 36/3 I will eventually end up being ganked due to my low speed which makes it:
- impossible to keep up with the team
- impossible to fight outnumbered
You can kill 10 guys on your own being the last on your team. That is not the case with a strength build.[/b]
I beg to differ. I kill many oftentimes when I'm the last on team. And I prefer fighting multiple enemies at once, and I usually come out unscathed when I do so.
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Haha, I'm so bad, I'm forced to crutch on my 30 strength and heavy plate to kill people. I probably could pull off an agility build, but I'm sure I do better as strength my old friend.
In my book, strength builds are easier than agility
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I have only 18 STR, but then again, my horse takes care of the rest.
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But once you become really good at this game:
- You have almost full awareness
- You can block flawlessly
- You master chambering
- You master kicking
Use an agile build with lots of athletics and you are bascially immune to melee damage.
With the high athletics and good awareness you can dodge projectiles pretty damn good as well.
Add a shield and you are invulnerable.
Name ONE very good player, who performs better in MOST situations with a strength build than with an agile build.
For example: 27/12 instead of 12/27.
I haven't seen anyone yet and I've played this game for 1,5 years.
Yes, vs noobs a strength build might be better, but I'm talking about veterans vs veterans here.
Most people in here have played this game for very long.
Me
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Me
s key right swing
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Nothing more obnoxious than fighting someone that isn't clueless about this game with a STR build. Yeah sure you can kill boatloads of people that don't block your swings and make a lot of duelling errors yourself. That doesn't change the fact good players will either avoid you, either take you down, because even though you hurt a lot when your attacks are successfull, they aren't bound to be successfull, and it's agility that matters when you want to get your hits in.
Then again, agility is freedom, and to utilize this freedom to the fullest extent requires experience playing the game. Much more so than strength does.
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Me
wow rhaelys more like gaylys heh, HEH
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39/3 long dagger warrior only build best build
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^this is old news but...
str builds have many weakness' but will save your ass if you have to move as a unit.
Team hits and projectiles while fighting as a blob or regiment are inevitable and agility builds cant take that type of punishment.
I see only a few fundamental foot work styles in warband (some people are unique).
* Received damage minimization. Guys that move in a way that limits the damage you can do and causes you to bounce more often.
* Lunging. Stepping back and forth to get speed bonus and stay out of enemy reach (weak vs kicks) (common with stabbing weapons)
* Twisting. Making it difficult for your opponent to block and attack. (common 1H technique)
*Damage Maximization Staying at highest damage reach for you. You deal the most damage but are at risk of being in you opponents optimum range as well. You are likely to be in trouble against an opponent who has a longer weapon.
Of course we all use a combination of this techniques we will always push towards one over the others. The best build for us personally is dictated by how we use our feet more than our mouse buttons. Of course the weapons and speed of our opponents can not be neglected either.
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39/3 is easier to play than 3/39(which is useless because Warband is not Olympics simulator.)
However, 15/25 can deal around same amount of damage when you take into account speed bonus from movement.
Therefore, usually skilful melee players increase agility over strength because it gives them good damage along with more control(footwork).
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Regarding the poll, we can clearly see how many agy whiners play this mod.
Strength builds are more difficult to play, because you need better footwork, timing and you need to be more patient to make a nice devastating hit.
Also you need to be a good at blocking (to defend yourself from agy spammer :mrgreen:)
And str builds are more historically accurate, because there no agy runners and ninjas in middle ages - combat was much solver then in this mod.
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Strength builds are easy as fuck, and I can say that because I'm a 30/12 glaive nerd.
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Glaive builds are easy as fuck, and I can say that because I'm a 30/12 strength nerd.
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Strength builds are easy as fuck, and I can say that because I'm a 30/12 glaive nerd.
You're a fraud! everytime i fight you i block left and you swing in another direction.
Not cool bro... not cool
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i use str build because i love to fight vs 3-4 enemies at once, its my playstyle, and to reduce damage from arrows and teamhits.. nothing more nothing less... and more i play with it more disadvantages i see.. but i have no intention to change my playstyle..
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Yesterday I had an wet fart seeming less like shit than this topic.
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People can say that strength builds aren't OP, but they'll never make me forget how easy it is to 3-4 shot everyone with 13 power strike and a +3 Practice Longsword.
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People can say that strength builds aren't OP, but they'll never make me forget how easy it is to 3-4 shot everyone with 13 power strike and a +3 Practice Longsword.
...until whoever you are fighting starts to take you seriously.
I also frequently experience the same "boosted performance" whenever I am not using an equipment setup people tend to fear. It works during a few days, then it wears off because most of the people you are playing with know that you are dangerous and play accordingly.
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The only real problem with strength builds is the amount of hp you can stack. It gets kind of ridiculous when someone can make 4-8 mistakes before they die.
Also, each point of str gives you 1 hp and 1/6 points of damage.
Each point of agi only gives you 1/4 points of athletics.
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cav is undeniably hard
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cav is undeniably hard
This man knows.