Poll

Which is harder to play, Strength or Agility builds?

Strength Builds
53 (25.1%)
Agility Builds
94 (44.5%)
Cav
31 (14.7%)
Ranged
33 (15.6%)

Total Members Voted: 210

Author Topic: Strength Builds  (Read 5421 times)

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Offline Frankysan

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Re: Strength Builds
« Reply #30 on: October 19, 2012, 12:04:44 pm »
0
balanced builds are by far the easiest and always have been.
and you always been the king of bundle of stickss!

edit: i was rude man but  :rolleyes: that's a declaration of low IQ  :mrgreen:

Offline Xeen

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Re: Strength Builds
« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2012, 12:17:34 pm »
+1
I voted that agi is harder.  I feel like you have to know your role, target, and blocking extremely well to do much of anything.  Every bad player I've ever known to go 36/3 did fucking terribly, though, and in many cases specced out of it because it was unbearable.  I know on my agi builds I loved coming across lumbering targets to massacre, hell ask sosarian how many times I hunted him down when I was 12/27.  My problem as agi wasn't people with a lot of str, it was cav bumps and archers that run faster than you unless you're wearing low enough armor to let them 2 shot you in the body.

Offline Casimir

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Re: Strength Builds
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2012, 12:17:58 pm »
0
and you always been the king of bundle of stickss!

edit: i was rude man but  :rolleyes: that's a declaration of low IQ  :mrgreen:

Well its true, they provide the most adaptable and easiest mixture of both.  Being able to play well in all game modes and map types.

Agi builds serve better on battles, on relatively flat maps with good cover.

Str builds will do better on siege, on town maps and maps where ranged does more damage.
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Offline Xeen

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Re: Strength Builds
« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2012, 12:23:06 pm »
+3
I will say, Casimir, my latest agi build ended up being my most dominant melee build ever for siege.  Steel pick is amazing for tearing up people with armor and any 1h sword with lower-end requirements will shred everything else.  This whole "agi sucks in siege" thing is completely ridiculous to me, especially when siege is largely a mode of logistics.

Offline F i n

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Re: Strength Builds
« Reply #34 on: October 19, 2012, 12:31:11 pm »
+2
Totaly depends on what build you are fighting against.

A 39/3 with a maul could easily chamber crush any 3/39 with a pitchfork.

A 3/39 could spam any 39/3 if he's not using a fast weapon or doesnt know how to chamber. 

So it does not depend on your build if it's "easier" or "harder" . Totally depends on your oponents and your own combat-brain-usage and skill.

And thats the good thing with crpg. You can be highly succesful with a build that most other players would suck at - developing your own style and individual fighting skill.
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Offline IR_Kuoin

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Re: Strength Builds
« Reply #35 on: October 19, 2012, 12:35:05 pm »
0
Totaly depends on what build you are fighting against.

A 39/3 with a maul could easily chamber crush any 3/39 with a pitchfork.

A 3/39 could spam any 39/3 if he's not using a fast weapon or doesnt know how to chamber. 

So it does not depend on your build if it's "easier" or "harder" . Totally depends on your oponents and your own combat-brain-usage and skill.

And thats the good thing with crpg. You can be highly succesful with a build that most other players would suck at - developing your own style and individual fighting skill.


Chase in a nutshell, even if he goes archer he can still kill tincans with his little pick  :)
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Re: Strength Builds
« Reply #36 on: October 19, 2012, 01:09:14 pm »
+1
This coming from an guy who ran 39/3 for 10 gens and even went 39/3 lvl 32 version , it's EASY AS FUCK if you know how to just like every other class. With loomed armour & wep I could take around 11-12 hits and at the same time one hit evrything with my mighty mallet / morningstar / long iron mace. But if my team got owned or I had poor awereness I just get ganked and die.
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Offline Camaris

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Re: Strength Builds
« Reply #37 on: October 19, 2012, 01:24:32 pm »
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On Siege  pure strenght is 100% king.

Offline LordBerenger

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Re: Strength Builds
« Reply #38 on: October 19, 2012, 01:28:18 pm »
0
agi build is easier but str is more effective when footwork and positioning are done right

I get trolled a lot but the truth is most people can't stand being str... they need speed crutch

Only dedicated agi build i like is 13 riding or 13 ath builds. Otherwise STR > AGI.

Rather be a buff #SWOLE warrior than a puny tiny stick with a 2handed greatsword flying around your enemy like a butterfly.
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Offline Casimir

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Re: Strength Builds
« Reply #39 on: October 19, 2012, 01:36:51 pm »
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I will say, Casimir, my latest agi build ended up being my most dominant melee build ever for siege.  Steel pick is amazing for tearing up people with armor and any 1h sword with lower-end requirements will shred everything else.  This whole "agi sucks in siege" thing is completely ridiculous to me, especially when siege is largely a mode of logistics.

The main problem with siege is the movement speed nerf really reduces the effectiveness of athletics, its far easier to fall back and defend key points than to move from place to place all the time.  In such a case survivability rather than manoeuvrability is by far the easier one. 

Remember this is not a discussion of what is best, just which is hardest.
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Offline Uumdi

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Re: Strength Builds
« Reply #40 on: October 19, 2012, 01:58:58 pm »
+8
easy solution: make greatswords/top tier 2h/poles require more STR.


I'm already salty that it takes till level 12-15 to pick up a battle axe.  A 3/3 build is still a grown ass man, and any peasant could pick up an axe to defend his home.  For the sake of game balance, I think its appropriate where weapons are now though.  I would never suggest letting people play 12 str Flamberge and Great Long Bardiche builds, but its bogus enough that you can't pick up your favorite weapon for 10+ levels even when pumping full strength with point conversions - even some mid-tier ones like a persian battle axe, or a support weapon like the english bill.  I miss the ol' 15/24 english billd. 

Could pull a dick move and make the greatswords 16/17 str - a non-multiple of 3, but still over 15. 


Honestly though - as far as agi vs. strength goes, it depends on how far they stray from balance. 

18/18, great.  Some would argue too slow to warrant being so weak.  No real edge, aside from being able to utilize skill points.

18/21 - lethal speed, just enough damage

21/18 - lethal damage, just enough speed

This is where straying from balance makes the strength argument merit

You can stack as high as 27/12 and still be able to utilize impressive footwork, more than enough to warrant sacrificing the athletics.  You can deal lethal damage to ANY character, light or heavy.

When you invert that to 12/27, you still have an extremely lethal build.  Here and beyond lie the cons that start to outweight the pros with agility.  Survivability is the major deciding factor.  Everyone focuses on damage - the ability to affect the world around them, because that's how we are as people.  Take into account getting killed in 1-2 shots from ranged, 1-2 swings from melee, a couple horse bumps, even (and especially) teamwounds.  STR also affects your maneuverability in heavier armors.  It allows you to make more mistakes.  We're flawed, we lapse focus at times, we get outnumbered at times, we miscalculate and even get fucked over at times.

K:D doesn't mean much, but if its anything to go by, my KDs for my 27/12 english bill gens were significantly higher than my 18/21 gens.  Personally I prefer my 18/21 build, but I was certainly in my prime in heavy armor, 27/12, backed by a squad of incredible teamplayers.  High strength is just as much a teamplay build as an agility is, because being more grounded, you should really take responsibility and be in the frontline.  Gutting guys, avoiding hits, blocking pikes, watching your flanks and covering those of others in massive melee engagements, pretty much demands that you perform well.  If you're a 12/27, you'd die from the first mistake made, and nobody would judge you for it because they wouldn't know any better themselves.  With focus and commitment, strength grants you lethality and survivability across the board.  Agility only allows you better control of choosing your battles.  You only need as much as the situation demands.  Strength has a much more passive benefit, and I think that's what bothers people.
--------------------------------

I'm currently 15/21 shortened military scythe cav and was one-shotting people in chain mail by 12 strength.  On foot I wear heavy ass pronoia, and still catch most archers running away, or at least match their speed.  12/27 studded warclub, or shield are fun builds.  27/12 was my best performance.  18/21 was my first infantry build ever, and is still my favorite.  Its all about positioning on the battlefield, and agility does not and SHOULD not dictate that, but rather your mind should.  Think about the bigger picture and consider weapon types, damage types, and versatility.
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Offline Uumdi

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Re: Strength Builds
« Reply #41 on: October 19, 2012, 02:03:29 pm »
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I will say, Casimir, my latest agi build ended up being my most dominant melee build ever for siege.  Steel pick is amazing for tearing up people with armor and any 1h sword with lower-end requirements will shred everything else.  This whole "agi sucks in siege" thing is completely ridiculous to me, especially when siege is largely a mode of logistics.

Weapon type, damage type, and positioning, absolutely.
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Offline dynamike

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Re: Strength Builds
« Reply #42 on: October 19, 2012, 03:05:22 pm »
+3
INT build is the hardest.
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Offline Osiris

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Re: Strength Builds
« Reply #43 on: October 19, 2012, 03:29:00 pm »
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agi is very useful for eu1. hell gotta dodge the arrows of the 15 archers on the enemy team every round :P
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Offline Riddaren

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Re: Strength Builds
« Reply #44 on: October 19, 2012, 10:00:44 pm »
+1
There is no such thing as an easy/hard class in general imo.
What is hardest to play depends on many things: The map, the teams and your own skill.


What might be "easy mode" for a noob, might be much harder for a veteran player and vice versa (relative to players of equal skill).

A noob will in general be more successful using a strength build, which can take more hits and deal more damage.
Yes, a noob being useless at manual blocking can use a shield and come winning out of a duel because of it.
Yes, a noob can use a horse and just run over people and get a few kills each rounds even though most of his attacks fail.
And anyone can be annoying and "OP" being a HA or HX...

But once you become really good at this game:

- You have almost full awareness
- You can block flawlessly
- You master chambering
- You master kicking

Use an agile build with lots of athletics and you are bascially immune to melee damage.
With the high athletics and good awareness you can dodge projectiles pretty damn good as well.
Add a shield and you are invulnerable.

Name ONE very good player, who performs better in MOST situations with a strength build than with an agile build.

For example: 27/12 instead of 12/27.
I haven't seen anyone yet and I've played this game for 1,5 years.

Yes, vs noobs a strength build might be better, but I'm talking about veterans vs veterans here.
Most people in here have played this game for very long.