cRPG
cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: oohillac on October 18, 2012, 12:13:36 am
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Having used something other than Horse Archery or Hoplite the past few days, I have realized I cannot get past others' blocks.
I can manually block pretty decently, but how do I feint well? Certain combinations? Holds? Randomly flailing around?
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Either get a buddy for some gang-banging action, spam kicks (while you can, because blocking while kicking is going out the window as soon as the beta launcher gets released in December 2010) or trade swings and blocks until the other guy gets bored and lets you win. I personally hardly ever feint anymore because of how ineffective it has become.
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Either get a buddy for some gang-banging action, spam kicks (while you can, because blocking while kicking is going out the window as soon as the beta launcher gets released in December 2010) or trade swings and blocks until the other guy gets bored and lets you win. I personally hardly ever feint anymore because of how ineffective it has become.
? :? ? me confused
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I've noticed feinting has fallen out of favor lately. (Or my ping jumping from 50 to 500 at the drop of a hat is affecting it) I find myself using it less and less and just relying on getting the best angle for your swing. Pull your mouse to the left when you right swing and to the right when you left. Of course this is less effective with the turn speed nerf, so you might need to hold your swing for a moment as you turn.
Not to say feinting isn't effective, it just doesn't work against skilled players. And sometimes will get you killed when a skilled player can read your attack patterns. I mostly use feints just to set up the best angle for my swing.
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players/the metagame in crpg are so bad feinting will get you hit more then it will benefit you
a lot of players now just roll around with 80 body armor and spam side swings waiting for you to feint (i dont blame them, i wouldnt bother trying to block either since the game is so slow and you need to kill people fast, so hoping you feint/bounce is actually not that retarded anymore)... yea i too wish the devs balance team played the game sometimes
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If you feint on every attack, all the other guy has to do is ready a swing and release at the right moment and you will die.
Feints counter held blocks, held attacks counter feints, held blocks counter held attacks. Rock, paper, scissors + kick is the crpg metagame.
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Learn to hold your attack and wiggle your mouse (works sometimes :D). Also helluva lot better damage when you learn how long to hold until the release. Best to use some kind of a feint & held attack combo because neither one is effective alone really. Also break the usual left right left right left right pattern and feint an overhead or stab somewhere.
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Thanks everyone
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There are many different types of feints. But my favorite is sometimes called "Feint Feinting" It is where you hold an attack then let go to a quick block/reload (looking like your gonna change attack direction) then you quickly feint to the same attack direction you started with. Gives your enemy the idea that your trying to trick them but your not. :D Counter Physcology.
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I developed my current playstyle primarily from watching Rhaelys of Chaos play. The whole feint-spamming rightswing thing. It seems to be very effective against newer players, but I've got to resort to S-key heavy outranging against skilled players. It makes me feel like a real asshole, too.
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Feinting is more of a tool in
cRPG is pretty slow, and as others have said feinting is more likely to get you hit than to aid. It's conditionally useful against people, depending on how they play.
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Didn't use feinting for a long time, but having used it a bit with a 1H lately, I have to say it's still effective when performed well. Sneaking in a feint here and there is nice, just don't resort into feint-spamming. Getting hits in is mostly about timing to be honest. It matters for everything. Timing a dodge, timing an outreach, timing a chamber, timing a thrust-stun, timing a held attack etc. :)
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If you notice someone is blocking frequently, try holding your attack and waiting for them to drop guard. This won't work too well on experienced players but sometimes it will keep them from attacking you back until help arrives.
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Problem is in cRPG feinting is shit-slow and not really worth it against any half-decent player.
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In my personal experience I've found well-timed holds to be more useful then feints. Holds can be amazing if used correctly, just don't try and use them against a spammer obviously ^^ It is how I break up flows in shielder fights.
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If somebody who can block well is willing to focus on you completely, then you are probably in for a long fight.
With an HBS or longsword you can do a thrust-right-thrust pattern that will throw off people not used to it. Most players accustomed to native duel won't be fooled. With a fast 1h you can quickly alternate between overheads and left swings, which will throw some people off. All classes become a bit harder to read if you spin your character model to obscure your chamber animation.
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my new mouse doesnt allow feinting. 8-) but it's usefull though, with a good mouse with smooth clicking buttons.
hold the held attacks btw.
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my new mouse doesnt allow feinting. 8-) but it's usefull though, with a good mouse with smooth clicking buttons.
hold the held attacks btw.
Hmm... Used to play with Ctrl as attack button, and Left Shift as block button for over a year - made perfect feint-chains. Pretty sure i could do feints using my G25 pedals as attack/block.
On the topic - do 2-3 "normal" attacks, as in strike-block-strike-block, make a feint afterwards - it will usually go through. Same goes for holding attack, since it is about breaking the fighting "rhythm" :( I would use holding against shield users, and feints against 2h.
Feints look much more impressive though, if you are holding a poleaxe or a greatsword - peasants shit their pants when they see you swing so quickly :)
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I have noticed that surprisingly many people fall for the old overhead feint nowadays :D. At some point you could never land that hit because everyone knew it was coming. Now less and less people even do overheads (because of the turnspeed) so you can easily learn that trick and do some good damage. It's just overhead attack, feint and another overhead attack (maybe hold the last one if the opponent tap- blocks. You will land that hit with that small delay and boy does it hurt!)
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Feinting is more of a tool in
cRPG is pretty slow, and as others have said feinting is more likely to get you hit than to aid. It's conditionally useful against people, depending on how they play.
its crazy how crpg melee is bad compared to this
holy
shit
its like 2 completely different game, native takes too much player skill and is dead, crpg caters to derpies and is alive, yay
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its crazy how crpg melee is bad compared to this
holy
shit
its like 2 completely different game, native takes too much player skill and is dead, crpg caters to derpies and is alive, yay
catering to casuals pays off, just look at World of Warcraft
btw pandas implemented in next patch
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Feinting still works pretty well. Your goal isn't to simply hit them, but also induce hesitation on their blocks and attack decisions.
Feints, holds, wiggling, and stepping out of your opponent's sweetspots can all be used in conjunction. 1h can really only effectively switch between overhead and left swing. With 2, i see a lot of strafing towards the edge of their sweetspot. I find that feints after interrupting an attack works best on overheads. Make sure you find timings that you like and stick to them. Feinting randomly is pretty ineffective, too.
Overall, I feel that being able to stay in your sweetspot range and messing up opponent timing is all you really need to do. Feints/holds are just a means to that end. I barely even notice when I feint when I fight, because I am trying to pay attention to other aspects of the fight.
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Learn to macro feint.
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One more for "feinting gets you killed".
I've been playing a lot of DTV lately due to burnout/lack of time/whatever and feinting has become second-nature as a result. This gets me murdered when I play siege or battle because I'll frequently get hit with spam if I try to feint a player. There are some feint combinations that work in some situations like mentioned above but you'll usually be better off with a hold and some dancing.
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the difference between native duels and crpg duels is pretty clear :P Most native duelers just abuse feint spam while looking down so you cant see wtf is going on :P also the lol insta stab and x feinting with weapons like the great long axe. Native caters to skill if skill is abusing the system as much as possible :P Sure crpg is a bit slow for duels but its fixed a lot of the problems that you have in native duels
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The good old overhead feint + sideswing still works well enough on a good part of the player base. Also, a nice trick is to feint then hold your actual attack.
the difference between native duels and crpg duels is pretty clear :P Most native duelers just abuse feint spam while looking down so you cant see wtf is going on :P also the lol insta stab and x feinting with weapons like the great long axe. Native caters to skill if skill is abusing the system as much as possible :P Sure crpg is a bit slow for duels but its fixed a lot of the problems that you have in native duels
...while at the same time creating others that often prove to be much, much worse. In cRPG we got engine shortcomings such as hiltslashing that basically allows one to spam and get away with it.
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i fail to see how hilt slashing is any worse than point blank lolstab to the face
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Some time ago at eu3 I decided to go full abooze with my 39/3 STR build in a matter of 2 days I wen't from place number 89 ( or something ) to number 1. Then I realised that was gay as fuck . So I tryd to fight as nice as possible ( not kickslashing , no hiltslash, no random spam ) and now I lose to evryone! YEAAAHHH
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This native hate is a scrubby attitude that appears in every single online game. Label any perfectly valid emergent gameplay, ie anything but the most basic first-day mechanics, as an exploit. Refuse to adapt and get destroyed accordingly.
Not saying the combat changes in cRPG is for the worse since it appeals more to the masses. Native is a better proving ground for competitive play. However for me, native melee>cRPG melee becuase I'm so damn hardcore.
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Feinting isn't ineffective in battle, noone expects you to feint in battle since theres so much going around you and it's so fast paced (unless you fight a decent player), I assume thats why I get most of my kills. In terms of dueling, if you are bad at feinting it is a hinderence. However, you get some excellent feinters, if I were you I would spectate some good duelists and then duel them- In my opinion, the only way to learn is getting your ass handed to you many many many times.
Also I agree, Native duelists (Nditions guys) are much greater than cRPG duelists in terms of feinting (which is relevant to the OP- feinting). You see some of the best dueling there, especially since there is no armour crutching and one sword fits all. You should train there, in fact everyone should train there!
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i fail to see how hilt slashing is any worse than point blank lolstab to the face
Hiltslashing is basically spam. No skill required whatsoever, and on top of that completely random.
Feints and holds are blockable, do not rely on glitchy collision detection between players, do not rely on your opponent not doing a countermeasure instantly, do not rely on your weapon's reach or damage. Get a hit in because you feinted or holded and it means you simply outplayed your opponent. Get a hit in by hiltslashing and it just means you were lucky he didn't block twice. Besides, mechanics that require someone to block twice in a row are terrible.
Also, a point blank lolstab is much, much slower than the effective speed of an hiltslash.
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Hiltslashing is basically spam. No skill required whatsoever, and on top of that completely random.
Blind hiltslashing is spam. Good players will usually go for a hiltslash, then cancel if they see the counter. Alternatively, they might fake the hiltslash footwork, and then go for a chamber when the predictable counter is executed. The last thing I want is a return of the 'dance-off' style of 1v1 combat that was so prevalent about a year and a half-ago: I feint, you block; you feint, I block.
The only change I really want in terms of double-swinging is an increase in 1h cut damage, so that the risk-reward of going for double swings as a 1h isn't so skewed.
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Also I agree, Native duelists (Nditions guys) are much greater than cRPG duelists in terms of feinting (which is relevant to the OP- feinting). You see some of the best dueling there, especially since there is no armour crutching and one sword fits all. You should train there, in fact everyone should train there!
They are better at feinting because the animations allow it. Native duelling is a piece of shit. It is faster, but the 2h stab is so outrageously omnipotent that it ruins the fun of duelling. It's a fluke based, animation and macro abusing pile of crap.
Duelling is dead. We are all too good at blocking and the combat is too slow. Feinting works excellent in duel and battle though. I could give two or three specific combinations for every class that have decent success.
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lezard i dont hate native :P i go to nditions duel server and IG battle grounds every few days. I just fail to see how its better its different sure. better is debatable.
Its nice to go to native when the eu1 ranged fest gets to you :P there is less ranged on most maps because you can carry a 2h a shield and throwing weapons so archers cant rape you so hard.
the top native duelers are very skilled true but most of the "skills" you see in native duels are people eurofeinting to such extent that they are just trying to abuse a glitch. sure its fine but id much rather be killed by good footwork a well timed chamber or hold or a great feint anyday. imo feint spamming isnt something to be proud of :P
PS im all for speeding up the Duel server speed
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Its nice to go to native when the eu1 ranged fest gets to you :P there is less ranged on most maps because you can carry a 2h a shield and throwing weapons so archers cant rape you so hard.
You go to native to escape the ranged fest?
!
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Yes there is actually less ranged on native battles usually thanon eu1 and 4 often :-D and you can carry 2h shield and throwing so you dont get kited
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They are better at feinting because the animations allow it. Native duelling is a piece of shit. It is faster, but the 2h stab is so outrageously omnipotent that it ruins the fun of duelling. It's a fluke based, animation and macro abusing pile of crap.
Duelling is dead. We are all too good at blocking and the combat is too slow. Feinting works excellent in duel and battle though. I could give two or three specific combinations for every class that have decent success.
I understand completely what you mean. However, I believe that if you can block the Native duelists you can block the cRPG duelists. As you've said, the combat speed is notably faster in Native. Whilst I agree that the buggy animations are present, I don't agree that it ruins the fun. For me, it's a challenge and if you die at the end then you can only learn- your eyes are forced to adjust to the speed and therefore reflexes attune accordingly :D. In essence, you are always improving on that server.
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I've found feinting into a hold can sometimes land a hit, since people expect a feint to lead into another quick attack and it can throw off someone's rhythm.
Also as mentioned before the right swing & thrust being combo'd as a 2H can be quite effective.
But yeah if you are too predictable with your feinting you will set yourself to take hits if your opponent tries to chamber your first swing; either they chamber you, or you take a hit while you are too busy trying to feint.
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Native duelling is a piece of shit. It is faster, but the 2h stab is so outrageously omnipotent that it ruins the fun of duelling. It's a fluke based, animation and macro abusing pile of crap.
Implying cRPG dueling isn't about 2h stab lololol
Even worse, a lot of the efficient duelists use 2h stab with backpedal all the fucking time (GTX, Tyr, Torm), which is probably the single most gay way to duel. Even I use it because it's so damn effective (because cRPG is too slow to win any other way against any kind of competent player).
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Chambering then holding the chamber swing, get's them every time (5% of the time, anyway)