cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Thomek on September 21, 2012, 03:21:42 am

Title: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Thomek on September 21, 2012, 03:21:42 am
To get more new players up to speed with the rest of the field who has all the loompoints they need.

The learning curve for a new player has never been been steeper than now.

* Skill levels are higher on average than they used to be, as mostly hardcore/old-timers are active.
* Those same players have all the looms they need.
* Because of the above, most players have 32+ characters.

I suggest 2 loompoints. Then they would have some motivation to get their items masterworked too.

Discuss. Preferably in light of less and less people on the servers..

(Of course the items loomed like this, should not be tradeable either, or it would lead to instant abooze.)
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Thomek on September 21, 2012, 03:28:18 am
Abooze method discovered.. :P

Players could make an account, get free looms then transfer all the stuff from other characters to the NEW account....
Don't have a good answer to that abooze possibility yet.. Any ideas?
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Torost on September 21, 2012, 03:55:24 am
Why not just give 3 loompoints to all playes... new and old..

For the old players... it doesnt really give them any benefit if they have a full armorset loomed already..
For new players it close the loom-gap somewhat.

And a booming market. With lots of transactions..
Ofc some traders will be pissed, as they have hoarded loompoints and looms.
The new loompoints will drive down demand...

Less grinding .. more fun..
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: MarktpLatz on September 21, 2012, 04:35:16 am
I´d rather suggest ONE loompoint for the beginning, item untradeable, item disappears after you retire the first time.

Why not just give 3 loompoints to all playes... new and old..

For the old players... it doesnt really give them any benefit if they have a full armorset loomed already..
For new players it close the loom-gap somewhat.

And a booming market. With lots of transactions..
Ofc some traders will be pissed, as they have hoarded loompoints and looms.
The new loompoints will drive down demand...

Less grinding .. more fun..

Yay more benefits for multiaccounting  :rolleyes:
Nah srsly, insta-lvl 35 or insta-mw is no fun at all.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Haboe on September 21, 2012, 10:23:52 am
(click to show/hide)

New player: whats this loompoint i have? Well they are free so lets just try this "heirloom button". Hey look at that, the stats went up! lets try it again! It worked again! And again, hmm doesnt work, seems like i need heirloom points for that. What you say? it takes 8 million xp before i can get another one? :O Why did i spend them all on this scythe :@
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: [ptx] on September 21, 2012, 10:42:35 am
This seems incredibly pointless :/

Besides, you want new players to try out stuff, not heirloom something and then stick with it.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Vovka on September 21, 2012, 12:09:58 pm
Abooze method discovered.. :P

Players could make an account, get free looms then transfer all the stuff from other characters to the NEW account....
Don't have a good answer to that abooze possibility yet.. Any ideas?
one +3 item for new player which disappears after 1 month   :P
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Kafein on September 21, 2012, 12:11:05 pm
Stop Native-ing cRPG !
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Mlekce on September 21, 2012, 12:32:30 pm
Let them fight for it,if they have enough guts they will grind it if they are weak they will quit this no matter what you give them.
When i first started playing this i played dtv,and there was few ppl that had some clans and whenever i played with them they would ban me for hour because i was too low lvl and they had more chance to get further alone.
THis happened to me at least 10 times.
Did i GTX mode? No i was so pissed off that i was determinated to get higher lvl,and i played,and played untill i reached high enough lvl.
now i am gen 12 and play every day at least 4 hours this mod.
This mod is alive because of ppl like me,who spend a lot of time in game,others just come and go,but  no life players :D like me is keeping this mod alive.
Who has no life will stay and play it,and don't need any looms.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Kalp on September 21, 2012, 12:37:30 pm
Bad idea. And not fair to people who played their 1st gen without any privileges. I understand the story of helping new players, but not in this way.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: LordRichrich on September 21, 2012, 12:40:48 pm
I've played this game for 2 years, so while I'm not a new player, I've only ever had one loom, a +1 tempered nordic champions sword, and maybe a long hafted spiked mace or something.
While I currently borrow looms from the clan armory, this is so I don't have to buy the weapon itself.
My normal gear has no looms, on occasion I'll use a +2 German poleaxe that my friend lent me, but that's more for the looks (and again so I don't have to buy it)
Now I'm no amazing player, average, maybe slightly above, idk. But I never feel at a massive disadvantage to INFANTRY MELEE players who have looms compared to myself.
Now if I'm playing cav, and someone has a +3 Arabian warhorse, I really hate that (I personally think the turning etc is too fast) or if an archer has +3 bow and +3 bodkins, I'll be pretty annoyed at how fast they can kill me (but it's usually ok as I have a shield and don't go chasing archers)
So really, there's a few items that need their looms rebalancing, in MY OPINION, it's bows and the arabian warhorse (those being op to me) and while I haven't ridden the arabian, I did spend some time as an 18/18 longbow archer with +3 longbow and +2/3 bodkins. It was ridiculous.

EDIT: Just make your first gen MAIN char a lvl 30 straight of that bat, but it takes the eqiuvalent of 1-31 to retire (so normal retire time, just meaning they can't all bitch about the difference in stats which really pisses me off -.-)
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Mlekce on September 21, 2012, 12:57:09 pm
let them cry and suffer,don't give a shit.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Vibe on September 21, 2012, 01:29:09 pm
no free looms ever

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Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Miwiw on September 21, 2012, 02:42:35 pm
Looms aint needed to keep on playing. Not really....
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Mlekce on September 22, 2012, 06:16:33 pm
i spammed yesterday blackcorsair_rs guy with not loomed short falcon.
I first killed his champion destrier,and then spammed him in melee and he had mw calibanarious armor,mw gloves,mw italian sword,mw KHS,mw some crossbow,mw bolts,mw boots,and mw zitta bascinet.
He is very good player,but my spam was too powerful and i killed him with no looms and unloomed weapon.
He had full set loomed,so if i can kill him,so others can. looms are not skill.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: HarunYahya on September 22, 2012, 06:24:03 pm
meh , looms don't grant immunity , they give very tiny bonuses compared to time spent to get them.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Smoothrich on September 22, 2012, 06:35:33 pm
just make leveling 1/3 faster for everyone
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on September 22, 2012, 07:41:39 pm
Looms are only really that great for a select few items (my old friendchery, cavalry, and armor)...
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Thomek on September 22, 2012, 08:00:58 pm
Looms aint needed to keep on playing. Not really....

True, but they represent a huge mental wall once a new player understand everyone around him has them..
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Miwiw on September 22, 2012, 08:10:17 pm
Then they must play more. No one got them for free until now....
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: SoA_Sir_ODHarry on September 22, 2012, 10:21:28 pm
i dont get the downside of givin Newcomers an Mw for start
just can attract some more too stay at crpg and if every1 say that there is no really advantage of them why not????
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: ThePoopy on September 22, 2012, 10:23:17 pm
remove heirlooms
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Kafein on September 22, 2012, 10:27:44 pm
remove heirlooms
just make leveling 1/3 faster for everyone

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Disclaimer : this is from a guy that only uses a +3 armor



cRPG used to be more fun back when you regularly had level 43 and level 20 people around playing on the same server.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Akynos on September 25, 2012, 12:20:18 pm
Indeed new players are disadvantaged now...I remember when I started on crpg ( not so long ago compared to some of you) and it was already the steepest learning curve I had ever endured in all the online games I had ever played.To be honest, I would have had stopped playing after a month of constant deaths if it wasnt for an IRL friend who rocks at this game and convinced me to carry on.
So if this community wants some fresh blood, we are gonna have to lure the new players into thinking that they are having a great time dying all the time :D So I guess extra xp for the first two gens, or temporary heirlooms, etc.
For example, a newbie in his first gen would start directly at level 30 and have access to a special menu granting 'special' items (loomed or not, depends).
Anyway, the whole point is to avoid that the newbie starts as a pure peasant as he would die all the time, wouldnt feel rewarded for hitting someone ( as he would have like 4-5 ps and a bastard sword) and so would probably RQ after a few hours of gameplay.
Look at most MMO games, they give new players advantages to draf them in the game and enslave them into this system of constant grinding !
We could do the same :D
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Elindor on September 25, 2012, 05:18:07 pm
I kinda agree...maybe FIRST CHAR FIRST GEN starts at lvl 25+
When you retire, then you go to lvl 1 like anyone else. 

As Akynos mentions, for most brand new players to cRPG the combo of being TRAGICALLY underskilled compared to the average cRPG veterans - AND - being low level is maybe too much.  Even good players can have a hard time really accomplishing much at low levels. 

People get hooked when they can eek out a couple kills :)
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on September 25, 2012, 05:28:19 pm
If you're gonna give them a starting level I'd say 20, they get to experience 1 level of killing level 1-5s in EU_5.
But overall I'm against the idea.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: beniliusbob on September 25, 2012, 06:28:59 pm
Give all players as much experience as the oldest player in the game and give everyone free access to all masterwork items for all time and remove upkeep and let me change my build between deaths and change the gamemode to Team Deathmatch and change the name of the mod from cRPG to Native.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Kafein on September 25, 2012, 08:54:13 pm
Luring new players by pretending cRPG is yet-another-FPS is not the right way to do it.

New players are not supposed to get kills and they won't get kills no matter how many free heirlooms and levels you give them. To play on a level playing field only to get utterly destroyed because they suck at the game is in no way more appealing than getting stomped because they don't have the stats and the skill.


Back when I joined cRPG myself (autumn 2010) there was a rather complete guide to the game. One of the most important things said in that guide was :

"As a peasant, your goal is to survive. Follow a high level knight, help him the best you can and rack up the xp"

I was okay at the game (played Native a lot) and had of course bad stats. I didn't feel entitled to get kills like so many players seem to be today. This "new" attitude is ruining the atmosphere. Back then fighting high level people was a bit like a boss battle. Yes it is unfair, but everything is unfair. And when you win an uphill combat, you feel much better than just getting another kill, I can assure you. A defeat was taken much more lightly since you had bad odds anyway.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Thomek on September 25, 2012, 09:38:49 pm
Again you fail to get the point.

1. This is not supposed to cater towards people who love super-challenging games. It's about catching NEW players and making them STAY. This is not happening at the moment if you look at the servers.

I'm not worried they will have an "easy" time, because they won't. cRPG now is more hardcore than ever.

2. Don't compare when you and me and most vets started playing.. Sure battlefield was uneven, but skill levels were not even near what they are now. The average player at EU1 now would beat most top players back then.

Sure gear or levels won't help them much, but i.ex start at lvl 25 would make them get their first loompoint faster and they wouldn't have to experience being a useless peasant until 2nd gen. I honestly don't see the problem with this.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Teeth on September 25, 2012, 09:46:06 pm
Dunno why I haven't ever considered this, but yes ofcourse. As the average looms/person ratio increases, get new players up to speed by giving them a fraction of what everyone else already has. Alternatively, one could implement an xp bonus. A catchup system of sorts, to make the gap between old players and a new player decrease a little faster. Give him a big bonus when he starts out, that gradually slows down as he gets a few generations/millions in xp. Ofcourse all of this would have to be abuse proof.

Actually I'd much rather have looms and levels altogether removed from the game. Grinding is not good gameplay, the idea that it is has been thrown at us for years now, but we don't have to accept it. If gameplay is not interesting enough to keep you playing, you should stop doing it. Sadly I am one of the few to who grinding does not appeal it seems. I say we go to a system with a fixed level cap and respeccing with a money fee or a cooldown. No loom or level crutching.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Zanze on September 25, 2012, 09:48:50 pm
Didn't read the rest, but just came back. Would the loom points given be re-usable? I wouldn't trust my just finished downloading crpg with loom points...
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: oprah_winfrey on September 25, 2012, 09:54:18 pm
Didn't read the rest, but just came back. Would the loom points given be re-usable? I wouldn't trust my just finished downloading crpg with loom points...

That is a good point, perhaps give the first retirement 3 loompoints, as they will have so experience to know what they want to loom.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Haboe on September 25, 2012, 10:00:53 pm

Actually I'd much rather have looms and levels altogether removed from the game.

Takes away a part of what seperates crpg from native (not all ofc)
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Leshma on September 25, 2012, 10:10:05 pm
This isn't year 2010. and native seems rather dead. cRPG is going there as well.

Game is awfully outdated and many people got sick of it because they've seen it all.

War of the Roses is crappy game but many people will migrate there because it's fresh. If it was decent alternative to Warband, 90% of Warband's player base would migrate to it in first few days.

I support Thomek's idea but I fear it's too late. The longer I'm absent from the servers, less desire I have to ever come back. When a player sever last link (these forums) he's gone for good.

Face it, this mod is OLD.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: oprah_winfrey on September 25, 2012, 10:12:07 pm
This isn't year 2010. and native seems rather dead. cRPG is going there as well.

Game is awfully outdated and many people got sick of it because they've seen it all.

War of the Roses is crappy game but many people will migrate there because it's fresh. If it was decent alternative to Warband, 90% of Warband's player base would migrate to it in first few days.

I support Thomek's idea but I fear it's too late. The longer I'm absent from the servers, less desire I have to ever come back. When a player severe last link (these forums) he's gone for good.

Face it, this mod is OLD.

Retire.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Leshma on September 25, 2012, 10:14:32 pm
That means I'll be on top of nerd list until this mod finally shuts down.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: oprah_winfrey on September 25, 2012, 10:16:06 pm
That means I'll be on top of nerd list until this mod finally shuts down.

If you don't want to be on the nerd list just hit respec A LOT.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Teeth on September 25, 2012, 10:18:07 pm
Takes away a part of what seperates crpg from native (not all ofc)
The crap part, which leaves us with Native with better balance and customizable characters, perfection.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Mlekce on September 25, 2012, 10:23:40 pm
Teeth that would be shitty mod to play.
You would play it for like 2 moths and get boored and quit it. Grind and looms are reason why everyone play this,you remove it and mod will be dead.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Haboe on September 25, 2012, 10:25:48 pm
The crap part, which leaves us with Native with better balance and customizable characters, perfection.

But crpg players dont want only balanced builds. They wanna have 13 ps, or 10 ath because its fun or their playstyle, someothing native doesnt have.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: phrstbrn on September 25, 2012, 10:29:01 pm
I'm coming at this as a new player, so my theory-crafting might be all wrong on this.  I don't think giving new players free heirloom points will solve anything.

Perhaps the problem is being looked at the wrong way.  I'm looking at the gear and there is no reason to use +1 looms.  The bonus going from +0 to +1 is tiny, +1 to +2 is bigger, +2 to +3 is even bigger.  So of course anybody with all +3 gear is going to completely outclass anybody in something less.  Give the gear diminishing returns for looming, so the +1 items are actually viable items.  So instead of running around with 1 +3 item for min maxing purposes, you'll run around with 3 +1 items.  And since the difference between the +3 and +1 gear has shrunk, there is less of a curve between those with all +3 looms and those who are running around with +1 and +2 looms.  New players are still boned, but at least their first few loom points will help close that gap much quicker, by Gen 5 they'd be in a pretty good place, mostly +1 armor a +1 weapon.

As an example, take any armor piece, instead of giving +1, +3, +5 armor bonuses, give as +3, +4, +5 bonuses.  Lordly armor would stay the same, but the gap between Thick and Lordly would shink.

As of right now, there is no reason why I'd want anything other than a +3 chest.  Why use a +1 chest, +1 boots, and +1 gloves to get a measly +3b/+1l armor, when I can just wear a +3 chest and get +5b/+5l.  With the proposed values, you're looking at +6b/+6l if you wore those same 3 +1 looms.

If you want to fix the gap between fresh players and those running around with looms, then just nerf those +2 and +3 looms altogether to bring their bonuses down across the board.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Kafein on September 25, 2012, 10:37:55 pm
Again you fail to get the point.

1. This is not supposed to cater towards people who love super-challenging games. It's about catching NEW players and making them STAY. This is not happening at the moment if you look at the servers.

I'm not worried they will have an "easy" time, because they won't. cRPG now is more hardcore than ever.

2. Don't compare when you and me and most vets started playing.. Sure battlefield was uneven, but skill levels were not even near what they are now. The average player at EU1 now would beat most top players back then.

Sure gear or levels won't help them much, but i.ex start at lvl 25 would make them get their first loompoint faster and they wouldn't have to experience being a useless peasant until 2nd gen. I honestly don't see the problem with this.


cRPG still has level differences, luring players in by making them think there aren't any probably isn't a good idea.

However, the level 25 thing seems ok. But that means new players will actually "learn" the game later on.



Making the game more "noob-friendly" shouldn't default to "erasing the grind aspects". People have varied opinions about grind, but I think it is important that anytime on the battlefield, there are people that have better stats and people that have worse stats (note : this is not really linked to grind, as an example in some FPS games you have a "mutant" mode where one guy is uber powerful and each other player has to kill the mutant to become the next one). The generation system was introduced so that high level players would go back to level 1 willingly, exchanging roles with players of lower levels. I think that's a very good idea, but the incentives for generation grinding were too high. It's totally possible to fix that.

Ideas :

1) No more gen xp bonus, each gen should actually be longer (or just equal in duration) than the previous one. E.g. the level requirement could increase.
2) A generation should give more diverse long term bonuses. They can be cosmetic like titles, banners or exclusive armor skins. They can also take the form of LPs or unlocking skill cappers.
3) The LP system could be so much better. If weapons could be more freely customised, there would be a real depth and variety to it. Imagine improving you weapon speed, weight and damage separatedly.
4) Skill cappers : Imagine that as a gen 1 character, you cannot invest more than X skill points in any given skill, and each generation lets you go one point further than that in one or a couple of skills you choose. That would force people that want lots of specialisation to retire. Also, switching classes when retiring wouldn't be that easy, but still possible.
5) Improving your equipment should be enough of a motivation to retire as soon as you reach the requirements. To keep people from going high level, equipment pieces should be upgradeable much much further than just putting 3 LP in them. Of course further improving your already improved equipment would mean spending more loom points to get the same stats increments.
6) Smoother xp curve, people should be more or less equally spread among levels


As a result, even hardcore grinders would go back to peasantdom regularly, this allowing them to craft unique items with the LP they make through retiring, and unlocking more extreme builds.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Teeth on September 25, 2012, 10:40:04 pm
But crpg players dont want only balanced builds. They wanna have 13 ps, or 10 ath because its fun or their playstyle, someothing native doesnt have.

The crap part, which leaves us with Native with better balance and customizable characters, perfection.
Customizable characters as in customizable builds as well, just with a fixed level. Just like lvl 30 builds now for example, but without having to grind to 30 or having the ability to go above it. Perfectly balanced aswell.

Teeth that would be shitty mod to play.
You would play it for like 2 moths and get boored and quit it. Grind and looms are reason why everyone play this,you remove it and mod will be dead.
I haven't gotten a single loom for a year now and I am still here. I love the gameplay, fuck the grind, stopped retiring as soon as I had all the looms I really needed.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Mlekce on September 25, 2012, 11:07:29 pm
Yeah teeth but you use chase looms,you have full set mw,while i have only shield,wepaon and light armor mw.
You rolled all gens like a boss,and i rolled like a shitty peasant,first 7 gens my gear cost was under 15k. Now it is arround 30k or lower.
Is it fair to me to be equal with newbie or called stupid because i grinded and suffered to get this shit looms that doesn't realy get me any advatage?
I like the idea that we could maybie get some points instead of looms after we retire that we can invest in any stat we want for our weapon or armor to upgrade.
Stuff should stay as it is now,with gen exp bonueses,and looms. Ppl who grinded and suffered should be rewarded and should have advantage over ppl who starded to play yesterday. End of story.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Teeth on September 25, 2012, 11:46:01 pm
Yeah teeth but you use chase looms,you have full set mw,while i have only shield,wepaon and light armor mw.
You rolled all gens like a boss,and i rolled like a shitty peasant,first 7 gens my gear cost was under 15k. Now it is arround 30k or lower.
Is it fair to me to be equal with newbie or called stupid because i grinded and suffered to get this shit looms that doesn't realy get me any advatage?
I like the idea that we could maybie get some points instead of looms after we retire that we can invest in any stat we want for our weapon or armor to upgrade.
Stuff should stay as it is now,with gen exp bonueses,and looms. Ppl who grinded and suffered should be rewarded and should have advantage over ppl who starded to play yesterday. End of story.
There is loads of stuff in our bank, if you want to borrow something just ask Schmatso :p. I only have 3 MW's myself and that is all I need. If you feel like you suffered while grinding, how can you say that grinding and looms should stay? Only because you are too selfish to lose them now if they get removed altogether? You would be equal with everyone else, no one would have any advantage over anyone apart from skill. Would be awesome in my opinion.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Elindor on September 25, 2012, 11:57:42 pm
I'm coming at this as a new player, so my theory-crafting might be all wrong on this.  I don't think giving new players free heirloom points will solve anything.

Perhaps the problem is being looked at the wrong way.  I'm looking at the gear and there is no reason to use +1 looms.  The bonus going from +0 to +1 is tiny, +1 to +2 is bigger, +2 to +3 is even bigger.  So of course anybody with all +3 gear is going to completely outclass anybody in something less.  Give the gear diminishing returns for looming, so the +1 items are actually viable items.  So instead of running around with 1 +3 item for min maxing purposes, you'll run around with 3 +1 items.  And since the difference between the +3 and +1 gear has shrunk, there is less of a curve between those with all +3 looms and those who are running around with +1 and +2 looms.  New players are still boned, but at least their first few loom points will help close that gap much quicker, by Gen 5 they'd be in a pretty good place, mostly +1 armor a +1 weapon.

As an example, take any armor piece, instead of giving +1, +3, +5 armor bonuses, give as +3, +4, +5 bonuses.  Lordly armor would stay the same, but the gap between Thick and Lordly would shink.

As of right now, there is no reason why I'd want anything other than a +3 chest.  Why use a +1 chest, +1 boots, and +1 gloves to get a measly +3b/+1l armor, when I can just wear a +3 chest and get +5b/+5l.  With the proposed values, you're looking at +6b/+6l if you wore those same 3 +1 looms.

If you want to fix the gap between fresh players and those running around with looms, then just nerf those +2 and +3 looms altogether to bring their bonuses down across the board.

This basically.  He's right.

Both the bonus to leveling gained from generations and the way looms stack (+3 best, +1 almost worthless) should be INVERTED (or at least reworked) if you want to help new people / people with less.

And overall I agree with Thovex on this - average cRPG skill level has gone up a lot (I've been around off and on for some time now - im sure not as long as some of you but long enough) and new players have a hard time really doing much of anything, let alone getting kills lol.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Leshma on September 26, 2012, 12:05:15 am
He needs to take a week long break from cRPG.

I know from my own experience, if you play a lot you lose perspective. Of course you'll think cRPG is the best thing ever if that's only thing you play :)

New player buy this game, hear about cRPG being like MMORPG somwhere, download it from chadzRPG flashy site and try it out. After half an hour, after being devoured he'll stop playing forever.

As Thomek said, skill level is already ridiculously high, no need for grind to make a difference between players.

When I started, there were extremely high level people but there was a ton of lowbies like me. Grind bought me a horse and I started killing other peasants who weren't much worse players than me.

Nowadays everyone has loomed items and is high level, lowbies stand no chance. Giving them better gear won't make them invincible and certainly won't make them harder kill if you're decent player.

I'm really looking forward to Project Asisnus but I hope that chadz will soften grind, making it different. It's not as bad as in most korean MMORPG but it's there and I don't like it.

Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Mlekce on September 26, 2012, 12:11:31 am
There is loads of stuff in our bank, if you want to borrow something just ask Schmatso :p. I only have 3 MW's myself and that is all I need. If you feel like you suffered while grinding, how can you say that grinding and looms should stay? Only because you are too selfish to lose them now if they get removed altogether? You would be equal with everyone else, no one would have any advantage over anyone apart from skill. Would be awesome in my opinion.

Imagine you are building a realy nice house,and you almoust finished it,and i come and say to you,hey man lets destroy all ur houses and live in tents to be equal.
No i don't want to be equal to peasants,and i don't want to be equal to someone who is playing this mod longer then me.
With weapon,gloves and armor you are equal to someone who is having more mw,because body armor and hand armor and weapon is what matter moust,rest of gear is just for fun. If you are cav horse is also important.
I grinded 250k gold in one gen,if i can do it,everyone can,with a little selling of items you dont need you can collect enough money to buy yourself +1 item (i bought rus scale armor for 300k),and peasants after gen one can upgrade that item to +2.
After second gen it is already mw. Or they can trade 2 loompoints for mw item.
I could grind over milion exp in one day,average gamer can do at least 500-600k per day,so in one week he is completed his gen.
They don't deserve a thing to be given for free.
This is not communism,we don't want to be equal.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Leshma on September 26, 2012, 12:18:53 am
We aren't equal, some people are better than others at this game.

What you want is to minimize the skill difference with grind. It's okay for you to wish for that but I don't think most would agree. This isn't World of WarCraft MMORPG type of game, this is skill based competitive game.

Btw. you don't have a house, you merely have a shack, I have a house :)

And I'm not boasting to make myself feel better, I'm doing it to make you realize how insignificant is what you own in this game. The sooner you realize that the better for you.

Don't get me wrong, I grinded this game like hell but I enjoyed most of the time. If I didn't I would quit a lot earlier. From your posts I feel you didn't enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Mlekce on September 26, 2012, 12:35:13 am
Dude i will never get that much skill to be the best in this game.
Crpg have some mission,some reason to play,it is not stupid game like CS where you buy same gear over and over,and over again and play same map.
I like it cuz i keep my stuff and money.
I like to loom stuff,cuz they look then special and shiny,i enjoy having them.
Realy like dtv more then battle and siedge. Bouth of game modes are very tense and stressfull and i get angry easily so i play even worse,so i like dtv because i don't worry abbout anything and can relax.
I don't like anyone to get anything if we don't get same item as them,because we all beated game on ultra hard and some new ppl are gonna play it on normal.
You leshma have finished this game,you are lvl 35,have 20 looms,you played,you had joy owning ppl that are lvl 30 or less,but some of us want to feel that too. You can't force us to play different just because you are fucking boored.
Why dont you delete ur main and looms and start from lvl 1 again?
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on September 26, 2012, 12:42:01 am
I actually wrote a reply to Mlekces bs here but I ended up realizing that arguing with him is impossible as he's saying exactly the opposite of what he just said and you therefore cannot address his arguments without argumenting for what he just said.

But I'll just throw in an old example of Mlekces hypocracy:

Back when Mlekce was a lancer he was moaning and bitching about how pikes were to good about lancers but about that when he was playing inf in strat battles he weren't good enough with a pike...
...Now, when Mlekce stopped being a lancer he imidiatly started bitching bout how pikes are to good against infantry and to weak against cavalry...
..Essentially Mlekce is saying that he doesn't want new players to have the same experience as him while playing lancers and pikers as he wants them nerfed.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Mlekce on September 26, 2012, 12:49:16 am
I actually wrote a reply to Mlekces bs here but I ended up realizing that arguing with him is impossible as he's saying exactly the opposite of what he just said and you therefore cannot address his arguments without argumenting for what he just said.

But I'll just throw in an old example of Mlekces hypocracy:

Back when Mlekce was a lancer he was moaning and bitching about how pikes were to good about lancers but about that when he was playing inf in strat battles he weren't good enough with a pike...
...Now, when Mlekce stopped being a lancer he imidiatly started bitching bout how pikes are to good against infantry and to weak against cavalry...
..Essentially Mlekce is saying that he doesn't want new players to have the same experience as him while playing lancers and pikers as he wants them nerfed.


That was 10 gens ago,in the mean time i went trough all classes,and tried a lot of builds.
Every class is fun to play for 2-3 hours,after that you realy see how every class have it's weakness and have its OP ness in something.
Mod is pretty balanced now,after native i realy love our archers,and lancers,and pikers,and 2h. Ok i lie abbout 2h,but there isn't any class that is realy op or easy.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Teeth on September 26, 2012, 12:50:01 am
I actually wrote a reply to Mlekces bs here but I ended up realizing that arguing with him is impossible as he's saying exactly the opposite of what he just said and you therefore cannot address his arguments without argumenting for what he just said.

But I'll just throw in an old example of Mlekces hypocracy:

Back when Mlekce was a lancer he was moaning and bitching about how pikes were to good about lancers but about that when he was playing inf in strat battles he weren't good enough with a pike...
...Now, when Mlekce stopped being a lancer he imidiatly started bitching bout how pikes are to good against infantry and to weak against cavalry...
..Essentially Mlekce is saying that he doesn't want new players to have the same experience as him while playing lancers and pikers as he wants them nerfed.

How do you that, you sometimes seem retarded while looking very clever the next moment?
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Lichen on September 26, 2012, 01:02:50 am
Just have all gen 1 new players able to get to level 40 in the xp it currently takes to get to level 31. They don't even need looms that way and it's a much simpler solution.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Leshma on September 26, 2012, 01:08:47 am
Why dont you delete ur main and looms and start from lvl 1 again?

Some things you do only once in your lifetime :D
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Mlekce on September 26, 2012, 01:10:57 am
Some things you do only once in your lifetime :D

Oh realy? :D
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on September 26, 2012, 01:23:58 am
How do you that, you sometimes seem retarded while looking very clever the next moment?
75% of the time I seem retarded I'm joking and I'm perfectly fine with being the only guy laughing.
The other 25% is just me being so brilliant you cannot comprehend it.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Teeth on September 26, 2012, 02:54:24 am
75% of the time I seem retarded I'm joking and I'm perfectly fine with being the only guy laughing.
The other 25% is just me being so brilliant you cannot comprehend it.

Seems legit.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: SoA_Sir_ODHarry on September 26, 2012, 03:03:52 am
well Mod seems pretty dead cept the nerds already playin it since 2 yearsxD

maybe we should concentrate on noobfriendly Introduction of crpg for M&B2

1 MW Item at start WHY NOT????

start at Lv30
Gen bounded Server maybe till gen3(nab server)

make a TS channel with some kind guys like too help Newcomers and explain the Melee system at Duels and maybe make trainee groups at battel/siege/CONQUEST mode

how too attract more peeps too Strat+CRPG at once:

make a Strat Faction which every Participant of Strat belongs too when he enter Strat ,this Faction will exist too the End and is indestructabel, its welcome any Newcomer while hold a large Area too also welcomes any Traders with good prices and also Mercenaries/small Clans with Jobs for good Coin like protecting Caravans of this Faction  and patroulling the  Factions Area too fight against Bandits which try too raid the caravans(AI based).
Also Clans could trade with that Faction in the Middel of the Map.
Looking for Members/Goods/Troops/Wepons/Mercenaris it would be quite a good spot for the big Clans too...
Well too attract more peeps too crpg generally we need too implement INDEPENDET Mercenaris for strat.Too give a Goal and Way too players too improve their Gear and Skills while
interacting with crpg.(opposite of the stare RPG world we got now)
its all should be connected and not seperated.While advance into the game in the starter Strat Faction peeps will find Connection too the Game and join the Clans or seek fortune in being lonly Hero like LoLwen.
So 1 Way too catch more people could be Strat ,through rewarding they invested Time through Gold/Exp/Looms/Knowlege/ and finding a Clan.Symbotic with plain playin Crpg.
When i think bout it right now
Why not taking the Kingdome suggestion was made here :

[url]ttp://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/crpg-kingdoms/[url] 

and connect it with the starter Strat Faction?
so useless Rounds of battel and siege get replaced by givin any Round a "Sence" in Strat.
1 Battel could last 1 day or something.
so crpg meets strat noobfriendly :)

im out
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: MarktpLatz on September 26, 2012, 04:39:11 am
1 MW Item at start WHY NOT????

-Because it would be unfair for all the other players who had to grind a lot to get a MW item.
-Because it won´t help the newcomers very much since, once more: skill>equipment.

start at Lv30
Gen bounded Server maybe till gen3(nab server)

-I think we´re fine with the under lvl 20 server, server would not be really populated since other clan members can´t join the server, therefore it would be easier to get xp and experience while playing on a regular server with a clan.

make a TS channel with some kind guys like too help Newcomers and explain the Melee system at Duels and maybe make trainee groups at battel/siege/CONQUEST mode
Actually not a bad idea, but nobody wants to spend time sitting in an empty channel just waiting for hours :P
Solution: Join a clan, they will help and explain.

make a Strat Faction which every Participant of Strat belongs too when he enter Strat ,this Faction will exist too the End and is indestructabel, its welcome any Newcomer while hold a large Area too also welcomes any Traders with good prices and also Mercenaries/small Clans with Jobs for good Coin like protecting Caravans of this Faction  and patroulling the  Factions Area too fight against Bandits which try too raid the caravans(AI based).

Big faction for all no-faction members without leadership: Worse than no faction, because:
It doesn´t give you any advantage since there is no leadership to organize something
No more neutral raiding targets / Very effective raiding because you can see what the other guys are carrying.

How would you connect the neutral castles with reality? "No, you cant attack us, because ______ ???"
Big clans would just occupy the trading routes between the castles=> not much S&D left for randomers.
Factions could not be wiped from the map in any way since they can just go to this invulnerable refugee and rebuild their armies :P

Nuff said.

Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: SoA_Sir_ODHarry on September 26, 2012, 09:54:18 pm
-well the sence of the loompoints is too make some guys stay and not leave crpg.
maybe its personal my View but i wouldnt care bout when a newcomer would get some Help...

-Lv.30 well ye we have STF chars...agreed

-the Thing with the Lv 20 server is that every player under lv 20 can join it also killhungry Vets..
let it be just first Gen Restriction it would be a better zone for noobs in my opinion

-well too revive Zendar town ,for exampel Bandits or free traders ,already was suggested plenty of times
i just gaved it a shot and thought bout too also help new players who joined strat with it
The Fiefs might just could be raidabel for regular Players/Clans but not conquerabel also they could have TONS of excelent Equip and Troops so every1 would think twice before they attack it...
same for Ai Cravans and Patrouls, which btw seem too might be planed too be added.
How Clans can be wiped out now?Why they cant rebuild an Army? How is this bad for Strat when defeated Clans not loose the Interest at Strat and just leave it???

-the Kingdome thread just popped up in my mind... not really thought bout it how too connect it too Strat...


Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Akynos on September 26, 2012, 10:49:56 pm
The answer to this debate is, there is no answer.

If we leave it as it is, it is too hard for most newbies to learn.

==> Loss of community on the long-term

If we make it more fair ( ie: involves less diversity and possibilities) as Teeth suggested, newbies will want to join, but most people will not see the point of this mod and will play native/quit altogether

==> Loss of community+ gain of community

If we make it more diverse, it will expand the differences, thus leading to no pop. growth.

==>Loss on the long term

As Leshma truthfully said, this mod is old. Is is bound to go down and die eventually. The game is old, therefore the community will not grow, as players simply will not buy the game.

I actually don't believe we can get new players, so let the vets have their fun, and let the new players have their tough time. If they are not determined enough to play this game, they don't deserve to play it (bam.)

Let the mod have its peace. Take advantage of the fun while you can. Its far from perfect, but game balance is correct, community still pretty stable and its still real fun to play if you keep an unbiased view. People will be whining about stuff, that's how it goes.
We can't have everything.


Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Leshma on September 26, 2012, 11:30:05 pm
If we make it more fair ( ie: involves less diversity and possibilities) as Teeth suggested, newbies will want to join, but most people will not see the point of this mod and will play native

Why don't you test that yourself?

Native isn't supported by devs anymore, it has ton of bugs that are fixed in cRPG and balance is lulz. In other words, compared to cRPG, native siege/battle are shit. Not even taking leveling into account.

Native is better for dueling tho.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Mlekce on September 27, 2012, 01:16:11 am
Can we have a look how much players play this mod?
I feel it too,like community is getting lower and lower. Just as exmple byzantium have 50 members,but ikarus,teeth,sonjar,shmacko,me,cow,jackie,renegat,intolerant and sometimes chase is playing crpg. 40 ppl don't play it.
Eu1 have 200 slot but it is moust of the time under 100 ppl in server.
Maybe we should all get one mw item for free. Bigginers and veterans,that would be fair for all if that is gonna get us more players.
Every time it is the same people on server.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Cup1d on September 27, 2012, 01:24:11 am
True, but they represent a huge mental wall once a new player understand everyone around him has them..

Better remove wall completely. I mean remove looms from game. Just like good old times.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Mlekce on September 27, 2012, 01:28:08 am
But then why would ppl retire and how would they pay repairs?
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Rhekimos on September 27, 2012, 01:28:15 am
If I see an advertisement for a game: "Come here, you get 5000 FREE virtual gold pieces for joining!!!" I don't think, "That's a fair offer." Instead I think that the game is probably very bad and the people pushing it desperate.

I joined because the game was interesting and gaining that little experience and gold as a peasant covering behind plated knights felt meaningful. If we start dishing out free stuff at every opportunity, we will devalue it all.

Also I generally see games do this when they are about to die and out of ideas. It never brings the interest back.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Mlekce on September 27, 2012, 01:34:52 am
Contra is right abbout one thing,removing looms is step backwards,not forward. It is realy bad idea to remove it.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Haboe on September 27, 2012, 02:19:54 am
well Mod seems pretty dead cept the nerds already playin it since 2 yearsxD


Stopped reading after that.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: SoA_Sir_ODHarry on September 27, 2012, 03:27:48 am
meh funny thing i can see at servers daily more and more vets drop outta the game and some new players take they place
cept for  expampel me who is playin since 2 years straight
and still see future for crpg
in M&B 2 :)))
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Lichen on September 27, 2012, 04:52:35 am

If we make it more diverse, it will expand the differences, thus leading to no pop. growth.

==>Loss on the long term
I don't understand that reasoning. I thought more diversity makes it so MORE players would want to play.

Can we have a look how much players play this mod?
I feel it too,like community is getting lower and lower.

Didn't people keep complaining about everything being 'OP' 'crutch', 'no skill' etc etc? Well guess what? A LOT of the fun was also removed because of the nerfs. Now we have a game where you can't really dominate even if you have all the looms you want. Also build diversity is lower than it used to be which further reduces diversity and fun. I know that's exactly the game many want to play, however that game might not be noob/casual player/low skill friendly.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Akynos on September 27, 2012, 12:17:13 pm
I don't understand that reasoning. I thought more diversity makes it so MORE players would want to play.
If you look at Teeth's post, you will see that he suggests more limits so that we avoid situations like a 1vs1 with a lvl33 full plated/full loomed knight vs a low level peasant.
By creating levels, we created diversity in player levels.
By introducing looms, we created diversity on who has the best equipment.
By having specialisation in builds ( like me, 36/3), we have diversity in gameplay.

Of course, this is an attractive perspective, most of us play crpg for this. But is diversity such a great thing for a newbie?
So this way, a newbie will never be as performant as a veteran, for the simple reason that he cannot take advantage of this diversity because he lacks experience - both in game and in real life.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: OssumPawesome on September 27, 2012, 01:43:16 pm
rather than giving away loom points at the creation of a new/character/on new m$b key/etc (which just sounds like asking for trouble) just make them easier to acquire.  decrease the amount of xp it takes to get to 31 or increase rate of xp gain.

simple, effective, and ill play the game a lot more.

I hate being stuck halfway into 30 on a build that I'm getting sick of.  I have cooled out on playing when I hit this point in the past and probably will again.  I feel like this is not just me.
Title: Re: Give free untradable loompoints to new players.
Post by: Mlekce on September 27, 2012, 03:22:19 pm
Even if you give a peasant full mw set,and lvl 31 he will still die a lot.
He don't know to play this game. He don't know to block,he don't know when to attack,and community is pro.
So this suggestion is bad.