cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Tibe on August 31, 2012, 12:56:12 pm
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I know this is getting rather old to hear: Cav OP, archer OP,2h OP, your moms butt OP, upkeep sucks, but what the hell?
I always tought that the upkeep system was being fair, cause I played with heavy armor. Now I played with extremely light armor for many many many hours/days, the only thing that costed anything was my greatsword and I still gained no money at all. And the x5 wasnt very rare aswell. I mean wtf? I feel like im getting conned here by the local blacksmith who keeps repairing my stuff with dirt. Cant we fix this? Cause I dont feel like going naked with a 2h stick.
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Melee should not be complaining about upkeep. The ones who can complain are cav and archers. Arrows and Horses are the things that make me lose money =O
I never lost money with my 2h, no matter what gear i used.
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I make about 200k each gen by using a tribal warrior outfit some low tier boots, gloves and helmet. I got either my german or danish great sword equipped 75% of the time.
What's your definition of "light armor" anyway? Kuyak? Also remember that items that use up 2 slots have twice the chance to break per round.
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Also remember that items that use up 2 slots have twice the chance to break per round.
DID NOT KNOW!
Making decent amount of money with 35,795 gear cost and 2,503 max upkeep though.
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If you have 2 of 3 slots of the same we same weapon ( ex jarids ). Does it increase the risk of breaking ? I'm not sure they can break 2 on same round. I'll check this out.
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Blue Brigandine over Aketon, pantyhose and blue hood. And sometimes I go monks robe. Its basically light armor. And I dont gain shit. I mean, yea....sure, I dont loose much, but I dont gain anything here either.
How did people earn the money for looms and shit in the first place? I dont remember the upkeep system being so brutal when I started playing.
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If you have 2 of 3 slots of the same we same weapon ( ex jarids ). Does it increase the risk of breaking ? I'm not sure they can break 2 on same round. I'll check this out.
You can break the same item twice if you got it equipped in multiple slots.
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If you have 2 of 3 slots of the same we same weapon ( ex jarids ). Does it increase the risk of breaking ? I'm not sure they can break 2 on same round. I'll check this out.
Yes, it does. If I equip two great swords, there is a chance that both of them might get repaired. If you play an archer, you will see your two quivers being repaired quite often.
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Blue Brigandine over Aketon, pantyhose and blue hood. And sometimes I go monks robe. Its basically light armor.
The Brigandine is not. That's somewhere in the medium range.
You might wanna have the max amount of weaponmastery your build allows since weapon repair chance is dependant on your WPF. Really becomes noticable when you're using one of the 10k+ weapons.
Oh and overall upkeep used to be like 1/2 of what it is nowadays and the xp bonus was 100 for each gen with no cap.
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If you have 2 of 3 slots of the same we same weapon ( ex jarids ). Does it increase the risk of breaking ? I'm not sure they can break 2 on same round. I'll check this out.
Both sets can break.
Anyway, never had trouble with upkeep with any character and I've played everything but (dedicated) thrower from horseback.
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The only time I have an issue with upkeep is when I use 3 or 4 MW items or put on a bunch of heavy shit + a couple looms. I don't see any issues with it. I'm not really making any money, but don't need it either.
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Melee should not be complaining about upkeep. The ones who can complain are cav and archers. Arrows and Horses are the things that make me lose money =O
...
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I don't understand how anyone that isn't on a horse has trouble with upkeep, including archers. On my main right now, my loadout is 38k (haubergeon, hourglass gauntlets, rus cav boots, kettle helmet, greatsword, elite cav shield, italian sword) and only have 113 2h and only 46 1h wpf. I still make money pretty easily.
When I did archery, I had khergit lamellar, horn bow, 2 stacks of bodkins, and a langes messer and make money.
Hell even in full plate you still break even/lose a little bit of cash over the gen.
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if i play with bodkins and 182 wpf i never make money even on x5, i just trade to get some money for my alts.
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Lordly Cased Greaves
Lordly Katafraktoi Armor
Lordly Milanese Sallet
Lordly Wisby Gauntlets
Masterpiece Knightly Heater Shield
Masterwork Italian Sword
thats what i use but i still make money, sometimes im even brining an axe, stell pick or xbow but still make money so i dont see a problem with upkeep
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shhh all of u!
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I think the game hates me than. :cry:
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What is up with the upkeep system is the keep.
/thread
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Its not that I have moneyproblems. The loommarket has kept me well financed. Its just that I tried to make some cash ingame just for lolz, by using cheap(almost cheap) stuff and somehow I still barely make any cash at all. This is not a QQ thread, cause I wont be running out of cash any time soon. I just want some clarification. Seems its just me. :evil:
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I can't hope to make money at all ingame anymore. Kinda sad, but i can just save 100k each gen and is just enough for cav it seems. But thats the price i pay for easymode.
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I never have problem with earning money. Might be because I never use the 10k+ weapons.
The gen I lost the most money on was my 1h/shield/crossbow gen. Only lost like 40k the whole gen...
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Upkeep is so gay. I am using peasant gear and only one expencive item,and every fucking round expencive item brakes,but if i wear all expencive items only cheaper ones will brake.
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I know this is getting rather old to hear: Cav OP, archer OP,2h OP, your moms butt OP, upkeep sucks, but what the hell?
I always tought that the upkeep system was being fair, cause I played with heavy armor. Now I played with extremely light armor for many many many hours/days, the only thing that costed anything was my greatsword and I still gained no money at all. And the x5 wasnt very rare aswell. I mean wtf? I feel like im getting conned here by the local blacksmith who keeps repairing my stuff with dirt. Cant we fix this? Cause I dont feel like going naked with a 2h stick.
True!
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Both sets can break.
This brings up an interesting point: if you have (for example) two instances of the same set of Jarids, with auto-repairs turned off, and both get damaged in the same round. Do they become -1 Jarids, or -2 Jarids?
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sometimes you loose
sometimes you earn
sometimes you just forget that you bought a horse for 50k
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14 million dollar shemale !
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I haven't made a damn thing this gen, playing siege a lot on x5 with practically peasant gear and a long spear (not that expensive). It says on website the max upkeep I'll pay is 833, but I still seem to not make any money.
Something is weird here.
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I play dtv with medium gear(?) nordic warlord helmet wisby gauntlets black lamellar khergit leather boots and great long axe and i earn money? Dafuq
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I haven't made a damn thing this gen, playing siege a lot on x5 with practically peasant gear and a long spear (not that expensive). It says on website the max upkeep I'll pay is 833, but I still seem to not make any money.
Something is weird here.
Unless you win all the siege maps fast, siege has the HIGHEST chance to loose money. As break chance is PER MINUTE, Siege is always 6 minutes long. Battle is much shorter(4-5 minutes unless you get stuck with hiding archers, or big maps), and have less chance to repair stuff.
I pay 2,429 gold upkeep, and that's mainly for Katana, horse, and xbow(or lance which ever i decide), medium armor and I can do decent as long as i get a x5 streak for 1 map every so often.
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Siege is always 6 minutes long.
Except when attackers win after 45 seconds.
And afaik repairs are excatly the same it's just that ticks are somewhat more frequent.
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I make money using Glaive, Heavy Kuyak, Red Wisby Gauntlets, and Gotland Helmet. Oh and Rus Cav Boots. So.....?
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great maul+siegue = long x5 :mrgreen:
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I know this is getting rather old to hear: Cav OP, archer OP,2h OP, your moms butt OP, upkeep sucks, but what the hell?
I always tought that the upkeep system was being fair, cause I played with heavy armor. Now I played with extremely light armor for many many many hours/days, the only thing that costed anything was my greatsword and I still gained no money at all. And the x5 wasnt very rare aswell. I mean wtf? I feel like im getting conned here by the local blacksmith who keeps repairing my stuff with dirt. Cant we fix this? Cause I dont feel like going naked with a 2h stick.
i make buckets of money in my light gear
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The problem with the upkeep is that archers pay too little.
That's why they are so many. People are actually saving money by playing an archer for a generation.
The best equipped foot archers pay 1500-2000 in upkeep.
The best equipped cavalry players pay 4000-8000.
I seriously don't see why archers should not pay 3000-4000.
The dedicated archers will still play archers.
But overall the number of archers will decrease and thanks to that the archer class doesn't have to be nerfed.
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You obviously don't know jack about archers. Even though they wear light gear, they have nerfs that make arrows repair every round, nearly. They pay the same as a standard footman.
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The problem with the upkeep is that archers pay too little.
That's why they are so many. People are actually saving money by playing an archer for a generation.
The best equipped foot archers pay 1500-2000 in upkeep.
The best equipped cavalry players pay 4000-8000.
I seriously don't see why archers should not pay 3000-4000.
The dedicated archers will still play archers.
But overall the number of archers will decrease and thanks to that the archer class doesn't have to be nerfed.
Archers should not pay more, cavs should pay less.
I think by now we have these damn exorbitant repairs supposed to nerf the class called "op", everyone could see that it did not change anything about the use of these classes by the players.
And therefore it is stupid to keep repairs at a so high cost.
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The problem with the upkeep is that archers pay too little.
Our shit breaks much more often, between the bows wpf being brutalized by WPF penalties (My effective wpf despite having 7WM is about 65 due to PD penalties), and arrows have a greatly increased break chance period.
Old archers had this problem of making too much money, the new ones though have their stuff break much more often then normal, balancing things out. Additionally, we have a lower score, lower kills, so why should we pay as much as a "main" class? We are a support class, so leave it at that.
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44,646 goldCost
3,122 goldUpkeep (max)
I play as a 2h with a dgs, medium bordering on heavy armour.
I make money.
I dont see a problem. If upkeep was less than it is, i could sustain plate armor indef. I dont think it would be good for the game.
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I have a 2k repair bill or so on my main but I can easily make money with him. Plus I have an alt that was a pure str guy to mess around on with a 3k+ bill which also makes money.
I don't see the issue with repairs. Cav knew going in that they were most likely going to lose money since horses have a high mending bill (repair bill sounds so weird) by themselves.
People who complain about upkeep don't understand that you need a buffer since sometimes shit hits the fan and you run a continuous x1 while your stuff breaks more than usual. Shit happens.
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You obviously don't know jack about archers. Even though they wear light gear, they have nerfs that make arrows repair every round, nearly. They pay the same as a standard footman.
Why should they pay the same as a standard footman?
Upkeep isn't fair and has never been. It's about limiting certain classes and use of items considered too much to deal with for melee infantry.
Like ranged and cavalry.
Additionally, we have a lower score, lower kills, so why should we pay as much as a "main" class? We are a support class, so leave it at that.
That depends. Sometimes it's better to be an archer than a horseman.
I'm not even a good archer. Still I can top the scoreboard with it.
And don't tell me it's a supportive class. I can go skirmish taking on several horses.
It's the only class imo that can take on any opponent, in any situation, on any map.
Not saying archers are OP. Most archers are weak and harmless due to bad player skills.
But in the hands of a good player, the archer is the most deadly class.
If you have played a clan match you should know that a good archer is the most valuable player for his team.
My suggestion will prevent archers from being nerfed by decreasing the number of archers by incresing upkeep.
Again, upkeep has very little to do with fairness. It's main purpose is to limit the use of "OP" items like heavy armour and horses.
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Just remove fucking upkeep entirely, most people would wear full plate if they felt particularly stronger wearing it already...
Most cav would ride plated chargers if they felt plated chargers were op...
...an example is archers, they got bodkins, an arrow kind that beats other arrows horribly, one of the only times (besides the 2h items) where the expensive items are truly greater, and EVERY archer uses bodkins, proof upkeep is useless.
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Just remove fucking upkeep entirely, most people would wear full plate if they felt particularly stronger wearing it already...
Most cav would ride plated chargers if they felt plated chargers were op...
...an example is archers, they got bodkins, an arrow kind that beats other arrows horribly, one of the only times (besides the 2h items) where the expensive items are truly greater, and EVERY archer uses bodkins, proof upkeep is useless.
I would support that. The game would balance itself somewhat.
I wouldn't be on an elephant for sure because I know it's shit.
Just like an archer knows it's useless to be using plated armour.
If something is "OP" and too many start to use it, it will become less effective due to more players learning how to counter it and also due to more competition between those who play it.
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The game would balance itself somewhat.
I wouldn't be on an elephant for sure because I know it's shit.
Just like an archer knows it's useless to be using plated armour.
Besides a few items (like pure cloth, nobleman outfits, the Dadao, and a few others) there are no items that are beaten by another item in everything.
As long as 95% of the items aren't balanced by the pricetag upkeep is useless, maybe back when (I heard, didn't play back then) plate was strong there'd be a reason for upkeep, but not anymore.
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Besides a few items (like pure cloth, nobleman outfits, the Dadao, and a few others) there are no items that are beaten by another item in everything.
As long as 95% of the items aren't balanced by the pricetag upkeep is useless, maybe back when (I heard, didn't play back then) plate was strong there'd be a reason for upkeep, but not anymore.
This.
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how chadz feels about general discussion
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My suggestion will prevent archers from being nerfed by decreasing the number of archers by incresing upkeep.
First off, you have a really funny definition of nerf if "increasing upkeep" does not count as one.
Secondly, people will still play archer and will merely use the "cheaper" gear since most people roll archer due to a need to hunt the high numbers of cavalry (at least for NA).
I enjoy melee substantially more then archer, I am even good enough with my shielder to be very competitive, and alright enough with a polearm to kill a bit more then I die from more often then not, but I roll archer because of the stupid high levels of cavalry (Hence my 24/21 build).
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I was going to post some of the lamentations of a horse archer last week but respec'd back to melee instead. So here's my data from a ~31,857 gold setup as a horse archer (Light armor, Rouncey, Arabian Cav sword, Yumi, 1 set Tatar, 1 set regular arrows.)
Gold ------------ XP
528,679 = [did not note XP total] (Bought appropriate gear and respec'd into horse archer.)
525,958 = 1 891 680
527,391 = 1 979 040
525,832 = 2 065 280
524,062 = 2 170 560
520,452 = 2 226 560 (Upset with losing money. Exchanged Arabian Cav Sword for one of the cheaper 1H swords.)
518,624 = 2 243 360
As others have pointed out, high PD and ~50 1H proficiency increased repairs significantly but even if you double arrow upkeep I was still well under the "sustainable" figures posted by many people in this thread. I don't know about game/item balance but it is very obvious that playing a moderately-geared horse archer is unsustainable without consistent valor.