cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kirbies on August 26, 2012, 01:58:48 am

Title: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: Kirbies on August 26, 2012, 01:58:48 am
So people have been telling me to invert the attack direction, saying that its worth it if you get used to it, but what are the advantages? Some people said it makes it easier to spin your attack, like sweeping your mouse right to do a left attack that sweeps right, does that make it do more damage because of the sweep speed?
Do enlighten me  :o
Title: Re: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: Earthdforce on August 26, 2012, 02:39:23 am
You can hilt slash a hell of a lot easier, and if you chamber a side swing it'll pretty much get to your target instantly.
Title: Re: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: Fyre on August 26, 2012, 02:51:18 am
Quote from: Earthdforce on August 26, 2012, 02:39:23 am
You can hilt slash a hell of a lot easier, and if you chamber a side swing it'll pretty much get to your target instantly.

The actual attack speed ingame doesn't change though, so this is assuming that you're not positioning yourself properly with regular attack directions, have a high mouse sensitivity, and move your mouse way too much when you're attacking. If you do all that, then it might be worth it. Otherwise, I'd say it barely makes a difference, if only making it another thing to learn.
Title: Re: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: Butan on August 26, 2012, 03:09:28 am
Inverted attack direction feels much more natural, you accompany the move the blade does with your mouse; think Wii control.
As a result, you move and hit in the same direction so when you swing right (blade goes from the right to the left) you move to the left, when you spin around your blade comes with you.
Title: Re: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: _GTX_ on August 26, 2012, 03:18:15 am
Quote from: Butan on August 26, 2012, 03:09:28 am
Inverted attack direction feels much more natural, you accompany the move the blade does with your mouse; think Wii control.
As a result, you move and hit in the same direction so when you swing right (blade goes from the right to the left) you move to the left, when you spin around your blade comes with you.

Never seen the point in this, im not confused by how the directions work right now.
Title: Re: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: San on August 26, 2012, 03:19:39 am
I want to try, but my hand is much less adept at jerking towards the right than towards the left, so my left swings suffer a lot.
Title: Re: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: Vodner on August 26, 2012, 03:30:39 am
The largest advantage is that it throws a lot of people off. They see your character spin in a certain direction, and they expect a certain attack to come out. It especially seems to throw people off with 2h stabs.

Of course, if a lot of people start switching to inverted, then that won't be the case for very long.
Title: Re: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: Oberyn on August 26, 2012, 03:34:22 am
Always played inverted, for the same reasons given above. It seemed a lot more intuitive from the start.
Title: Re: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: Matey on August 26, 2012, 03:38:39 am
Quote from: Vodner on August 26, 2012, 03:30:39 am
The largest advantage is that it throws a lot of people off. They see your character spin in a certain direction, and they expect a certain attack to come out. It especially seems to throw people off with 2h stabs.

Of course, if a lot of people start switching to inverted, then that won't be the case for very long.

This. Absolutely. I'm not the best at manual blocking but sometimes when I'm really in the zone I pull off some epic shit... right until I fight Saul or Cy with their inverted nonsense that just completely throws me off. I find i predict attacks based off footwork and positioning a lot, so I often block right instead of left or the other way around when fighting vs inverted. It fucks with my mind damn it!
Title: Re: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: IG_Saint on August 26, 2012, 03:42:49 am
Quote from: Oberyn on August 26, 2012, 03:34:22 am
Always played inverted, for the same reasons given above. It seemed a lot more intuitive from the start.

This. Also, I could swear that in the original m&b inverted was the default setting.
Title: Re: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: [ptx] on August 26, 2012, 03:54:15 am
It takes a couple of weeks to adjust to inverted directions, after you've switched, but then it feels great! Makes you want to spam a lot, though :D
Title: Re: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: Kafein on August 26, 2012, 04:08:35 am
It's the normal settings that feel "inverted" to me. It makes very little sense that I would swing my weapon to the right, by making a movement to the left with my mouse.
Title: Re: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: snipercapt on August 26, 2012, 04:11:57 am
Seems like I should try this wizardry!
Title: Re: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: Kafein on August 26, 2012, 04:17:51 am
The downside of inverted attacks is that you tend to make very predictable attacks unless you concentrate on avoiding it. it becomes very easy and natural to block a swing and attack again in the same direction with only one fluid movement of the mouse, leading to most of your left blocks making you start a right swing and vice versa.
Title: Re: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: Uumdi on August 26, 2012, 04:28:57 am
I'll shed light as an inverted player:

It has no benefit to turning into your swings, as there is a delay as you pull your sword back, so that is entirely false.  Maybe if it works in your head for, say a right swing for example, to move left -> right -> stop -> follow through right.  Otherwise, if you're moving right that entire time, you're going to spin in a circle.  If anything, default controls is a rocking motion, and would be right to left -> right.

I simply inverted because when I learned the game, I thought of it in the same way Butan mentioned, like a wii-mote.  I want my sword to go from left to right, so i move the mouse left to right.  That's just it - some people swear by inverted controls, but honestly its just how your brain functions.  When I played console shooters years back, I went from regular, to inverted, to regular, to inverted, back and forth maybe 5 times.

So be reassured, you're not missing out on anything.  You might confuse a few people who instinctively read character animations the default way, though as kafein just mentioned ^, it seems otherwise, and completely natural to block it.  Nothing game-mechanic wise though.
Title: Re: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: Turkhammer on August 26, 2012, 04:51:11 am
Quote from: Kafein on August 26, 2012, 04:08:35 am
It's the normal settings that feel "inverted" to me. It makes very little sense that I would swing my weapon to the right, by making a movement to the left with my mouse.

To swing your weapon to the right means you have to draw it back behind your left shoulder.  This corresponds to the left mouse move to start the swing.  Makes sense to me.
Title: Re: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: Dexxtaa on August 26, 2012, 05:21:52 am
Quote from: Vodner on August 26, 2012, 03:30:39 am
The largest advantage is that it throws a lot of people off. They see your character spin in a certain direction, and they expect a certain attack to come out. It especially seems to throw people off with 2h stabs.

Of course, if a lot of people start switching to inverted, then that won't be the case for very long.

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Title: Re: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: Nessaj on August 26, 2012, 09:48:54 am
It’s what pilots do, and pilots are cool.

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Title: Re: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: v/onMega on August 26, 2012, 10:01:13 am
Never thought about inverting it xD....never. Höhö, after 2500 hours...one would suck.

TOPGUN @ NESSAJ...woohooo..."I got the need, the need for SPEED! Huhhhhh!"
Title: Re: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: sF_Guardian on August 26, 2012, 10:11:47 am
Gosh, gonna try that, guess it will fuck my mind totally up after more than 3k hours without inverted.
Never played inverted in any game but yeah, gonna fuck my mind today :D
Title: Re: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: Equal on August 26, 2012, 11:01:24 am
Oh my god..An Archer picture.. Insta +1

Anyways I go by the if it isn't broke don't fix it mentality - I'm fine with how I attack and block now, why should I change it?
Title: Re: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: Patoson on August 26, 2012, 11:13:41 am
I've always played with inverted mouse (up & down) in all games. I don't know if down-overhead/up-thrust is due to this or it's always like that, but, after trying inverted lateral swings, I must say it's really weird.

If you want to run around someone in circles, the normal swings are better, otherwise you'll turn in the wrong direction when you swing.
Title: Re: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: Teeth on August 26, 2012, 12:36:10 pm
I switched after 1500 hours of regular attack direction, it's a pain in the butt and you'll feel like a drunk retard for a few days. After two weeks I could chamber again, yet after two months I still have the occasional reflex chamber that makes me do the old move, which doesn't exactly work anymore.

Reason I switched is because Senni_Ti always pulled of those turn hits, which look cool and actually confuse a lot of people. He did a 360 during the sideswing animation and hit you, which I couldn't do with regular. Because for example with a right swing, you first have to look right, then move your mouse all the way left, which is too slow. With inverted it is one fluid and natural motion, a really cool move with the 1h rightswing.

Normally with an attack you have to look away from your opponent to start the attack, and then look back to him to hit him early in the animation and not at the arse end. Ofcourse you get used to this and you do it automatically, but its still slightly slower than with inverted. I can hit someone with a right swing and then do a really fast 1h leftswing hit to the face. 2 hits that just consists of two quick mouse swipes.

One big disadvantage though is that normally chambering is basically doing the same as blocking, but with LMB combined with timing and angling. I learned chambering by just looking at the incoming attack and pressing LMB, which is sort of a logical next step after you learned good blocking. With inverted you need to look away from the incoming attack, which makes it hard to maintain the proper angle. I'm still very bad at chambering with the 1h rightswing, which was always harder than the other attacks, but I'm quite sure I used to be better at it. For all weapons chambering with the leftswing is a lot easier than with the rightswing for some reason.

Also nowadays stabbing from high to low works very well at close range with long stab weapons, it's kinda useful that with inverted you look up to stab.

Overall it's pretty minor, I like just having an unusual looking playstyle and doing weird stuff that looks cool visually. It's not necessary at all, if you really don't feel like struggling for two weeks then don't do it.
Title: Re: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: Rantrex on August 26, 2012, 12:51:27 pm
Does anyone play with "realative to enemy position", and just enjoy fighting?
Title: Re: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: Kafein on August 26, 2012, 01:37:56 pm
Actually, the definition of "inverted" and "normal" third person camera controls is completely fucked up.

In some games, the actually logical "aircraft" controls are used, where pitching the stick forward will make you look down, backward will make you look up, to the left will turn the camera clockwise and to the right will make it turn counter clockwise.

What is fucked up is that some games consider that to be inverted, and some do not, which leads to players having different habits and different ways of naming them.


But in 99% of first person games, the opposite setup is used, a movement to the right will turn your camera to the right, which is logical too actually, since the "fixed point" can be considered slightly behind the camera.
Title: Re: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: Butan on August 26, 2012, 02:11:02 pm
Quote from: Rantrex on August 26, 2012, 12:51:27 pm
Does anyone play with "realative to enemy position", and just enjoy fighting?


I would actually like a topic on this  witchery "relative to enemy position" :o
Title: Re: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: Gurnisson on August 26, 2012, 03:16:23 pm
Quote from: SgtTeeh on August 26, 2012, 12:36:10 pm
For all weapons chambering with the leftswing is a lot easier than with the rightswing for some reason.

For you, that is. I guess as a 1H you use left swing more often and therefore practiced left chambers more often. I was a dedicated poleaxe user for a long time quite a while back. I'm shit at chambering left swings nowadays while my right swing chambers is about flawless. I'm so used to using right chamber that I usually get the block up if my opponent did a short held swing with a fast weapon too since I pay attention to the sound while doing it. With a left swing I can miss chambers on non-held attacks and I'm not used to pulling out my block if it should indeed miss, and I do it rarer because of that.

Polearm left swing is shit, so I guess I never bothered too much. I hated fighting polearm users while being one myself, since I rarely could use right chambers, but had a lot of opportunities to chamber left.
Title: Re: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: Uumdi on August 30, 2012, 12:43:43 am
Yeah I've got chambering with right swings down pat, but i suck balls at left swings.
Title: Re: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: TugBoat on August 30, 2012, 12:46:36 am
Quote from: san. on August 26, 2012, 03:19:39 am
I want to try, but my hand is much less adept at jerking towards the right than towards the left, so my left swings suffer a lot.

any reason why your hand is used to jerking only in one direction San?  :D



I'LL BE HERE ALL NIGHT FOLKS

Title: Re: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: San on August 30, 2012, 02:31:02 am
I'm starting to get the feeling most of the people I have difficulty blocking against use inverted.. Not used to not seeing certain visual cues sometimes.

@Tugboat: it's easier to slide the mouse towards me than slide it away from me. I didn't care enough to change my wording. I move my mouse to the right slightly more than to the left. It often causes me to turn too much when blocking right, causing me to get hit a lot of the time.
Title: Re: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: Teddy bear on August 30, 2012, 09:37:21 am
Quote from: Butan on August 26, 2012, 02:11:02 pm

I would actually like a topic on this  witchery "relative to enemy position" :o
Think it's like auto-block option, only regarding attacks :)
Automatically chooses optimal swing by enemy position towards you.
I've strong feelings it's singleplayer available option only (or could be used on servers with auto-block on? :?:) :)
Don't know for sure though.
Title: Re: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: Vibe on August 30, 2012, 10:37:54 am
Didn't even know there was an inverted attack option  :lol:
Title: Re: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on August 30, 2012, 03:43:36 pm
I like the regular attack directions personally, if I move my mouse right and left click I think of it as my guy chambering his weapon to the right of his body, and then when you release, you follow through the swing (like a wii-mote like other people were saying with inverted).  Seems very intuitive to me.

Inverted mouse controls seem like you would be out of position a lot, like if someone is to my right and I want to swing from left to right, I would have to move my mouse FARTHER right to chamber back my swing, and then move my mouse right again to follow through the swing...
Title: Re: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: oprah_winfrey on August 30, 2012, 03:58:14 pm
It is a preference thing. The only "advantages" are:

1) people might not be familiar with your movement
2) Easier to turn into your swings
3) Easier to spam overheads and stab people in the head
4) Not is important with the turn nerf, but lol stabs could look weird because they originate as your players is looking up at the sky.

I think the biggest disadvantage is that chambering side swings is "harder" or not as intuitive.
Title: Re: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: Tanken on August 30, 2012, 09:33:16 pm
Going to give this a shot over the next 2-3 weeks.
Title: Re: Reason to invert attack direction?
Post by: Fyre on August 31, 2012, 06:03:51 am
Quote from: Turkhammer on August 26, 2012, 04:51:11 am
To swing your weapon to the right means you have to draw it back behind your left shoulder.  This corresponds to the left mouse move to start the swing.  Makes sense to me.

This. Especially because of holds. I always felt that the swing was the charge up of the attack, so it made sense that when I moved my sword to the left and held it, the sword stayed on the left, until I let go and then it swung right.