cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Spook Island on August 23, 2012, 04:55:09 pm

Title: Don't ever add stamina to the game
Post by: Spook Island on August 23, 2012, 04:55:09 pm
The last thing this mod needs is another buff to cav riders.
Title: Re: Don't ever add stamina to the game
Post by: Haboe on August 23, 2012, 04:56:25 pm
Stamina for horses?
And for the riders ofc (holding a lance horizontally should drain stamina with the speed of light.
Title: Re: Don't ever add stamina to the game
Post by: Spook Island on August 23, 2012, 04:58:16 pm
Stamina for horses?
And for the riders ofc (holding a lance horizontally should drain stamina with the speed of light.
just a horrible and unnecessary idea all round

besides, horses are built for endurance

if they want to change anything involving horses, make them take collision damage when you hit trees/buildings going 15mph, and if  the horse dies doing this the rider should take damage as well
Title: Re: Don't ever add stamina to the game
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on August 23, 2012, 05:04:09 pm
I think stamina would be good, but at this point I'd rather not see it added seeing warband is years old, and m&b even older and they haven't had this since inception. 

But to play devil's advocate I had these ideas regarding stamina:

*Infantry doesn't lose stamina from running but it regenerates slower while running versus standing still.
*Infantry loses stamina when they swing their weapon, the heavier the weapon, the higher the drain on stamina. 
*Both Strength (getting less tired from the weight of the weapon) along with Weapon Master (learning how to properly swing the weapon) would help negate some of the loss to stamina every swing.

*Horses would have stamina built in where at a medium "trot" they wouldn't lost stamina, but would regain slower than if they were stopped or walking.  At their fastest gallop they would start to lose stamina, somewhat similar to Red Dead Redemption.
*Swinging a weapon from horse would drain your stamina similar to being on the ground and swinging a weapon, couching lances would lower your stamina until it was drained, and then your lance would pop up (like it currently does after you couch for 6 seconds or so).
*Holding your weapon chambered would also slowly drain stamina

I'm not sure how to balance ranged with stamina, but it would be similar to melee, when you draw your bow back it would start to lower your stamina, and after say 4 or 5 seconds it would be completely drained and you would have to release the string.  It would have to regenerate pretty quickly however if you were stationary, I'd say faster than infantry maybe. 

Crossbows seem like they might be OP in this system, but I figure that when they are aiming their crossbow you would start to lose stamina, reloading would also take stamina. 

Title: Re: Don't ever add stamina to the game
Post by: Spook Island on August 23, 2012, 05:16:20 pm
In my opinion, it's just a horrible idea that will erode more fun out of the game.  There are ways to improve mechanics without limiting players further.  Let's see some of that.

Let's see some additions to mechanics that don't revolve around reducing player abilities.
Title: Re: Don't ever add stamina to the game
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on August 23, 2012, 05:17:56 pm
Yeah I think stamina and first person mode would be awesome, but should not be added.  It would be too much for people to try and deal with after not having them in the game for years.  Warband isn't super "arcadey" compared to a lot of modern FPS games, and that War of the Roses game, but not having stamina is one major drawback, IMO.  But like I said, I wouldn't want to see it added at this point.
Title: Re: Don't ever add stamina to the game
Post by: seddrik on August 24, 2012, 08:59:04 am
Ingame, spook is a total (ahem!!!!) but he is right here:  "..it's just a horrible idea that will erode more fun out of the game.  There are ways to improve mechanics without limiting players further.  Let's see some of that."

"Just Say No To Stamina!"
Title: Re: Don't ever add stamina to the game
Post by: Vibe on August 24, 2012, 09:10:11 am
Stamina would suck. Skyrim that way :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:
Title: Re: Don't ever add stamina to the game
Post by: Duckzern on August 24, 2012, 09:23:07 am
In my opinion, it's just a horrible idea that will erode more fun out of the game.  There are ways to improve mechanics without limiting players further.  Let's see some of that.

Let's see some additions to mechanics that don't revolve around reducing player abilities.

This all the way.
Title: Re: Don't ever add stamina to the game
Post by: chadz on August 24, 2012, 09:28:20 am
depends on the implementation. just because other games did a crappy job (out of stamina, can't attack, herpaderp), doesn't mean this is the only way this could work.
Title: Re: Don't ever add stamina to the game
Post by: Cicero on August 24, 2012, 09:36:24 am
There is a line which totally so thin between realism and arcade for games ;
 If you make the game realistic it will be nice to play but probably u will get bored soon. (MW)
 If you make the game arcade it wont be really nice to play but probably u will have fun so much. ( BF3 )

So the main reason we are all playing this mod for 2 years its neither arcade nor realistic ; Its just between both and thats why its nice to play so stamina bar would be nice but it wont really freeze the fuck of you =)
Title: Re: Don't ever add stamina to the game
Post by: Spook Island on August 24, 2012, 10:25:07 am
I just had a great idea.  Instead of considering a stamina bar, just add a sprint bar instead.  That way you'd be adding a dimension without taking ability away from players.

Just enough juice for a about 5 seconds of a 50% increase to speed that recharges very slowly.

Something that would add flavor to the game without making a real impact on gameplay.
Those are almost always the best changes.


Title: Re: Don't ever add stamina to the game
Post by: seddrik on August 24, 2012, 11:59:11 am
Nice idea.  ADD something instead of handicapping players more....  herpa derp
Title: Re: Don't ever add stamina to the game
Post by: Taser on August 24, 2012, 12:03:58 pm
I just had a great idea.  Instead of considering a stamina bar, just add a sprint bar instead.  That way you'd be adding a dimension without taking ability away from players.

Just enough juice for a about 5 seconds of a 50% increase to speed that recharges very slowly.

Something that would add flavor to the game without making a real impact on gameplay.
Those are almost always the best changes.

That'd be cool. And could have the regen on the stamina based on weight, agi, str, etc or just a baseline regen rate. Either way it'd be cool to have something like that.
Title: Re: Don't ever add stamina to the game
Post by: LordRichrich on August 24, 2012, 12:11:25 pm
And for the riders ofc (holding a lance horizontally should drain stamina with the speed of light.
Well no. You'd hook the lance in the crook on your elbow, not hold it
Title: Re: Don't ever add stamina to the game
Post by: Spook Island on August 24, 2012, 12:54:17 pm
That'd be cool. And could have the regen on the stamina based on weight, agi, str, etc or just a baseline regen rate. Either way it'd be cool to have something like that.

Only problem I can conceive with it so far would be archers using it to kite people further like some have been known to currently do.

Title: Re: Don't ever add stamina to the game
Post by: rustyspoon on August 24, 2012, 02:01:33 pm
Spook! YOU FOOL! The Devs may add stamina now just to troll you!

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?! D:
Title: Re: Don't ever add stamina to the game
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on August 24, 2012, 04:01:10 pm
Yeah I think stamina and first person mode would be awesome, but should not be added.
Agree with the fat part, it's already ingame...
Title: Re: Don't ever add stamina to the game
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on August 24, 2012, 04:07:02 pm
Agree with the fat part, it's already ingame...

Hey cock breath, you knew what I meant, that I meant FORCED first person  :P  I play in first person 90% of the time, since 90% of the time I'm lancer cav.
Title: Re: Don't ever add stamina to the game
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on August 24, 2012, 04:09:14 pm
I just had a great idea.  Instead of considering a stamina bar, just add a sprint bar instead.  That way you'd be adding a dimension without taking ability away from players.

Just enough juice for a about 5 seconds of a 50% increase to speed that recharges very slowly.

Something that would add flavor to the game without making a real impact on gameplay.
Those are almost always the best changes.

I just showered no more than 2 hours ago, but I feel dirty agreeing with you...still...I have to say this is an awesome idea.  Stamina would be nice, but it's way too late in Warband or c-rpg to add it.  But adding a sprint mechanism would be pretty fucking cool (would need a decently long slow down).

*EDIT* Shit double post, punish me!
Title: Re: Don't ever add stamina to the game
Post by: gazda on August 24, 2012, 04:11:58 pm
the moment someone says stamina, you immidetly think of a magic bar that when empty , prevents you from attacking.

It doesn't have to work this way. Maybe it should work as a base value that depends on your build/skills. When it runs out instead of being unable to attack, you get a combat/skill penalty of certain value.
Title: Re: Don't ever add stamina to the game
Post by: HUtH on August 24, 2012, 04:14:44 pm
Stamina would balance many things with agi/str builds imho...

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Don't ever add stamina to the game
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on August 24, 2012, 04:15:01 pm
Hey cock breath, you knew what I meant, that I meant FORCED first person  :P  I play in first person 90% of the time, since 90% of the time I'm lancer cav.
Eh, first person cav sounds retarded TBH, anyone on a loomed courser could couch/ride right up behind and headshot you.
Title: Re: Don't ever add stamina to the game
Post by: Spook Island on August 24, 2012, 04:28:29 pm
the moment someone says stamina, you immidetly think of a magic bar that when empty , prevents you from attacking.

It doesn't have to work this way. Maybe it should work as a base value that depends on your build/skills. When it runs out instead of being unable to attack, you get a combat/skill penalty of certain value.

I think of a bar that limits me in some way when It's drained, personally
Title: Re: Don't ever add stamina to the game
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on August 24, 2012, 04:29:47 pm
Eh, first person cav sounds retarded TBH, anyone on a loomed courser could couch/ride right up behind and headshot you.

Well I'm on a +3 courser.  And you can still look around in first person...it's much much easier to see in 3rd person, and I ride around in 3rd person when I'm not in the heat of battle.  But when I'm attacking (thrusting with lance) I am in first person.  I find it so much easier to judge exactly where the tip of my lance is in first person.  Similar to being able to shoot accurately with bows in first person.  I melee in 3rd person (of course).
Title: Re: Don't ever add stamina to the game
Post by: Spook Island on August 24, 2012, 04:30:36 pm
Spook! YOU FOOL! The Devs may add stamina now just to troll you!

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?! D:

lord have mercy if you are right...

may the baby jesus not forsake me
Title: Re: Don't ever add stamina to the game
Post by: Banok on September 05, 2012, 02:35:25 pm
why wouldnt riding drain some stamina, I would think galloping more tiring for rider than walking, admittantly Ive never rode a horse.
Title: Re: Don't ever add stamina to the game
Post by: OssumPawesome on September 07, 2012, 09:06:17 pm
ban stamina.
free spook.
Title: Re: Don't ever add stamina to the game
Post by: Kafein on September 08, 2012, 02:58:55 am
I suggest naming it otherwise so we don't have to suffer the prejudices of retarded posters. Projecting everything bad you can think of in a word isn't debating.

Therefore, we should add refrigerators in the mod.
Title: Re: Don't ever add stamina to the game
Post by: kinngrimm on September 10, 2012, 03:00:04 pm
Keep in mind wise players will learn to conserve stamina for the situations they need it, others will perish  :twisted:


suggestion for stamina usage:
First include into the following mind game a difference between
Stamina Capacity and Stamina Recharge Rate

attacking/blocking stops the Stamina Recharge Rate
running around and riding decreases the Stamina Recharge Rate(there is still a recharge of Stamina, it is just slower)
standing around has no effect on Stamina Recharge Rate

- open attacks of any weapon would drain constantly stamina depending on
* how long you hold the attack open before you release it, every second drains your stamina
* the weight of the weapon, the heavier the more stamina you use

- Stamina Capacity would be influenced by
* your strength, the more the bigger your Stamina Pool
* the weight of your overall gear, would reduce that stamina pool again

- Stamina Recharge rate would be also influenced by
* your agility, the more agility the higher the Stamina Recharge Rate
* the weight of your overall gear, would reduce that stamina recharge rate

- effects of low stamina or empty stamina pool
if you run out of stamina your movement speed and/or attack speed is reduced

results i imagine:
those ranged my old friends aiming for hours not watching their surrounding, but kiting away after first strike will run a tic slower if they didn't keep a little stamina reserve.
Those dudes just standing/walking around with open strikes for hours may do so, but will have to consider they may become slower in movement and attacks, that shouldn't be a problem with one opponent but with more then one.
Faster paced gameplay overall as those who don't take stamina into account will loose sooner.

Why not have running around use up stamina or standing around replenish it fast?
simple reason, people would hide somewhere to replenish before they go for the next fight or till they get found which never happen if the two last dudes are both counting on the other one will loose stamina while searching for him who is replenishing while waiting, that would be boring to watch, it should be done in a way that doesn't hinder the gameplay but supports the pace and fun and rewarding those who reserved and/or spent their stamina wisely.
Title: Re: Don't ever add stamina to the game
Post by: Doppel on September 10, 2012, 11:19:56 pm
Stamina should totally be in the mod... There is no diversity on duelservers. 80% are lolfeinting, carousel spinning 2h, who run around you like a rabbit. Nobody could swing a damn greatsword like a stick for so long. Stamina would force the players (espacially 2h/polarm heroes) to think about thier attacks. You could combine different animations, if it's possible: usual 2h stab with good stmina --> polarm stab animation for 2h with low stamina
Add stamina, but buff the damage of big weapons, so that a good placed attack is rewarding and deadly.
Title: Re: Don't ever add stamina to the game
Post by: Konrax on September 11, 2012, 12:47:04 am
just a horrible and unnecessary idea all round

besides, horses are built for endurance

if they want to change anything involving horses, make them take collision damage when you hit trees/buildings going 15mph, and if  the horse dies doing this the rider should take damage as well

Horses actually have pretty gimp stamina when blasting full speed for a length of time.

They can go long distances if they are just walking though.
Title: Re: Don't ever add stamina to the game
Post by: Zerran on September 11, 2012, 11:34:54 pm
I find I agree with Spook on game mechanics more than I feel comfortable with.  :lol:

Seriously though, stamina is a terrible idea. Ya, it's realistic, but I don't get on my computer and play video games because I want total realism.

The effects that stamina would have:

1. Less spam: Good, maybe? Though as I say all the time, spam is VERY EASY to counter unless you just screw up, or they have better footwork. For crying out loud, I have a 69 speed weapon and people rarely outspam me. The only time you can get outspammed while performing better footwork than your opponent is an extreme case like GMaul vs. katana, but that's the big downside of a weapon like the GMaul.

2. Less techniques (feinting, spinning, etc.) Ya, they look kind of silly when done over and over, but without these, fights between good players take forever. That leads to #3:

3. People avoiding tough fights, and chasing easier kills even more than they do already. Good player vs. Good player fights take time, and a fair bit of technique usage. This means that if they choose to fight each other, they won't be as capable later. No one wants that.

4. Less footwork. Terrible TERRIBLE consequence here. Footwork is one of the most important differentiating factors between a good player, and a bad player, imo. Why the hell would you want to reduce this factor?


TL:DR: Stamina does nothing but reduce the skill in the game. "Oh, but you need to conserve stamina" is a bullshit excuse. All the "conserving stamina" means, is more boring fights, and people avoiding good players more.

Besides, these aren't multi-hour long battles, save in strat (where you respawn). A trained warrior isn't going to get tired in 5 minutes. Hell, even some scrawny, malnourished peasant won't get tired that fast.
Title: Re: Don't ever add stamina to the game
Post by: Dr_Pockets on September 11, 2012, 11:39:29 pm
I really don't care that much about realism. To an extent yes, but when it starts taking away fun from the game. I don't want people with builds that make them stamina tanks that can outlast me in a fight.

 
I find I agree with Spook on game mechanics more than I feel comfortable with.  :lol:

Seriously though, stamina is a terrible idea. Ya, it's realistic, but I don't get on my computer and play video games because I want total realism.

The effects that stamina would have:

1. Less spam: Good, maybe? Though as I say all the time, spam is VERY EASY to counter unless you just screw up, or they have better footwork. For crying out loud, I have a 69 speed weapon and people rarely outspam me. The only time you can get outspammed while performing better footwork than your opponent is an extreme case like GMaul vs. katana, but that's the big downside of a weapon like the GMaul.

2. Less techniques (feinting, spinning, etc.) Ya, they look kind of silly when done over and over, but without these, fights between good players take forever. That leads to #3:

3. People avoiding tough fights, and chasing easier kills even more than they do already. Good player vs. Good player fights take time, and a fair bit of technique usage. This means that if they choose to fight each other, they won't be as capable later. No one wants that.

4. Less footwork. Terrible TERRIBLE consequence here. Footwork is one of the most important differentiating factors between a good player, and a bad player, imo. Why the hell would you want to reduce this factor?


TL:DR: Stamina does nothing but reduce the skill in the game. "Oh, but you need to conserve stamina" is a bullshit excuse. All the "conserving stamina" means, is more boring fights, and people avoiding good players more.

Besides, these aren't multi-hour long battles, save in strat (where you respawn). A trained warrior isn't going to get tired in 5 minutes. Hell, even some scrawny, malnourished peasant won't get tired that fast.

Zerran is completely correct.
Title: Re: Don't ever add stamina to the game
Post by: Kafein on September 11, 2012, 11:41:07 pm
1. Less spam: Good, maybe? Though as I say all the time, spam is VERY EASY to counter unless you just screw up, or they have better footwork. For crying out loud, I have a 69 speed weapon and people rarely outspam me. The only time you can get outspammed while performing better footwork than your opponent is an extreme case like GMaul vs. katana, but that's the big downside of a weapon like the GMaul.

There's no real counter to spam. Sure any decent player will not die due to spam, but that doesn't mean it is countered.

Long forgotten is the time only Cicero could spam indefinitely and just block when needed. Now many people do that and it ruins every technique you can use, except chamberblocking and just as lame very smelly footwork.