cRPG
cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Osiris on August 01, 2012, 11:25:13 pm
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so ive respecced tons of times and it seems ive turned shit at 1h :D Most of the good 1h moves i knew got nerfed to the ground by that stab change :(
So im lazy and need helps ^^ Im calling all good 1h users to post ye tips here 8-)
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1st of all. What 1 handed weapon and sheild do you use? Makes all the difference.
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1-Get 7 ps
2-Get +3 steel pick
3-Use left swing only
4-???
5-Profit
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Yeah, I think weapon and build matters.
I can give my #1 super secret universal tip though.
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1-Get 7 ps
2-Get +3 steel pick
3-Use left swing only
4-???
5-Profit
this is impossible to do with 5 athl. You will get kicked all the time,and you will be everyones bitch.
you need 12/27 build for that.
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Wiggle your attacks while using holds. Best with left swing while keeping the weapon right next to their head (hiltslash method of 1H). If you use a mace, slash them once on the ground after a knockdown and kick them up again for another free hit (and possibly a new knockdown)
I could make a long post about 1H play, but alas, I'm lazy.
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45* turn - overhead spam, they always block left and right
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As a 1h user you've got to keep on the move constantly, irrespective of your PS amount or weapon the speed bonus is your main weapon.
Don't concentrate on one target, you've got a shield (right?), this allows you to weave through mobs and cause damage to unsuspecting foes while those facing you most often backpedal hoping to outreach you - let them, they're only granting you a free hit on their teammate's backs. When you've done this to the same mob once, alter the method - pretend you're switching targets, then roll back onto the first. It's critical in a mobbing situation that EVERYONE expect to be hit EXCEPT the one YOU intend to hit. You won't outrange people, you won't beat them in terms of damage output for the most part, but by toying with your opponents and luring them into trying to catch you they'll unknowingly allow you to deal huge amounts of damage by suddenly facing and outswinging them.
Theres much, much more to say but I too lack the time right now. Might write more later! :D
Bjorn
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As with every melee technique, use of feints, chambering, and footwork can work wonders.
What I like to do personally due to my desire for teamwork, is that I'll soak up hits on my shield, giving others the chance to fight. When they're attention turns to the others, I give them a nice slash in the back.
What I've noticed, unfortunately, is that my stabs have glanced almost every single time. This shouldn't be an issue when I have 7 powerstrike. What I've found is that the only time they are useful is either when fighting swordcav or when both you and your enemy are running straight towards eachother.
Another thing I'd recommend is to get good at directional blocking. For me, at least, it just came with practice, to the point where it's reflex based. Since a shield slows your swings when it's equipped, don't be afraid to put it on your back, especially when dueling, and even more so when fighting swordcav.
Finally, train yourself to not be tricked by holds and feinting. When in a team fight (almost always), learn to recognize when you're in danger of being hit. Many two handers are decent at switching targets, so when you try to swing at them when they have a swing readied, they'll just turn slightly and hit you.
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this is impossible to do with 5 athl. You will get kicked all the time,and you will be everyones bitch.
you need 12/27 build for that.
I played it last gen and it was pretty damn brutal(Im going for it again this gen)
People kick you so what ?
With this build you gonna have
7 PS
7 IF
5 ATH
5 WM
if they managed to kick/slash you you lose a portion of your health but if you managed to land your left swing , you kill them in max 3 hits no matter what they wear.
In battle,strat or siege kicks are not very effective most of the people fail at timing their kick and or even if they kick they fail at hitting due to timing mistake but landing your left swing is the easiest thing to do :)
%0 chance to glance , it goes to head all the time = WIN .
This is my way of playing shielder , since i actively play on strat i have to have a STR based character but for public use 18/18 is just fine aswell.
I disagree people who claim that shielders should be fastmover spammers , i tried that aswell and it's funny how fail that is.
I play my shielder as a pusher , since i have a fucking huge shield i should be the guy who climbs the ladder , rushes to tower , charge the enemy group first !
I heard people giving athletics to shielders because they think it's their duty to chase archers lol
It's horsemen's job not yours !
Some people say you need athletics to getaway from bad situations.
Yeah you do need it unless you have a shield that blocks any attack coming towards you.You can just hold right click and wait for your teammates to arrive.After few hit people will start relentlessly swing their weapons at you and lose concentration thinking you are paniced and since you are a shielder you deal shit damage so they don't even think about possibility of getting hurt by your attack , then ta-da a surprise left-swing might even get you an easy kill while you wait for your teammates.
Some people say you need athletics to switch targets faster and hit them more times by your high wpf.
I disagree again.
Let's think of it.
Your steel pick is your best tincan opener it deals 32p
Surprise ! Great maul deals 43b ,has crush through and its longer
Elite scimitar a high tier mainstream 3 direction 1h deals 31c
Warcleaver a high tiermainstream 3 direction 2h deals 45c and its longer
Nordic champion sword a high tier mainstream 4 direction 1h deals 32c
Danish greatsword a high tier mainstream 4 direction 2hander deals 40c and it's longer
Take those 2 handers if you want to be an agiwhore bunny like jumping spammer because even with low PS , they hit like a truck but when you swing your 31c damage sword with 5 ps...its just a source of entertainment to your enemy.
You are outclassed in damage and reach while your weapons are always faster .
Giving more speed will just cause faster glances to compete with 2handers in terms of damage and being deadly , you need to increase your damage as much as you can to compete this damage .Since you can't have longer reach than any 2h and you are already faster only thing you need to improve is your damage.
TL;DR 100 bites of a fly can't kill a man but a single bite of lion can .
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Get a 100+ range 1h and learn the range of the rightswing. Hold it, wiggle it a little and hit all those pesky greatsworders in the face who perpetually underestimate your range. Always aim for faces, with the leftswing you barely have to. Learn the sweetspots of your left and right swings, it can make you hit a lot faster and a lot harder.
The stab is completely different now. At close range, when stabbing at the feet and then aiming up during the animation, it can sort off insta hit. They get hit halfway the animation and it is very tricky to block. Thet stab is completely useless at longer range now though. I do not exactly have a stabbing 1h, NCS, but it will still glance a lot more than you'd think at medium or longer range. It is unpredictable to such an extent that I don't recommend using it apart from at short range.
In general, hold attacks while moving your camera around or even spinning around confuse the shit out of people. I do it with all the types of attacks with reasonable succes. Leftswing feint spam works very well too, or blatant left swing spam. Leftswing/overhead feintspam works well too. I at least noticed myself mistaking a leftswing for an overhead occasionally.
Chambering is very useful as a 1h, especially with the stab, overhead and leftswing. These attacks are so fast that even veteran players will have trouble blocking these chambers. Especially against greatsworders who like to stab a lot chambering is useful. If you chamber the stab with either an overhead or stab it will mostly be impossible to block the chamber for the greatsworder due to stabblockstun.
Last but not least, watch for kicks.
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Im currently trying a 1handed char for the first time, no shield.
Right now i have:
STR 12
AGI 15
PS 4
IF 4
ATH 5
WM 5
Should i add more str? or is 12 enough? o.O
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Go 18/18 , 15/21 or 21/15 at Level 30 with your build. 12 is not that much.
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ill try the 15/21 then thx. I wanna go fast. :)
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go 21/15 or 24/15 like a pro. Get heavy armor and turtle untill someone makes mistake and then smash it in face with hammer or mw sword.
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ill try the 15/21 then thx. I wanna go fast. :)
Only experienced players can kill with 5 PS and one handed sword.
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tip : respec and buy a great danish lightsabre
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Only experienced players can kill with 5 PS and one handed sword.
I wouldnt call myself experienced, tho i manage most of the times unless its a tincan or knockdown, or both...I usually just jump in the middle of 3-4 ppl and circle around them. I survive, most of the time anyway. :)
If by any chance i go 18/21, could the 7 ATH be sufficient to chase archers/xbowers?
tip : respec and buy a great danish lightsabre
Whats that? Danish greatsword? I had a 2handed character as 1st gen.
go 21/15 or 24/15 like a pro. Get heavy armor and turtle untill someone makes mistake and then smash it in face with hammer or mw sword.
Turtle? I dont want shields :).
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Thought your'e going with shield.
Without shield you can do: 15/24 18/21 21/18 24/14 and so on.
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I'm 15/21 this gen, almost lv31. It's my 1st time trying this build and its fun. The speed IS a great asset. I can wear heavyish armor and a shield that weighs 8.5 and still go faster than many people, maneuver well, and take on several enemies at once and (sometimes) win.
You'll definitely want a MW weapon. I'm using a MW KAS and the high athletics lets me use its length to my advantage. However, the drop in damage compared to a blunt or pierce weapon takes some getting used to. If I use a pick or something it's awesome fun. :)
Just my experience...your mileage may vary!
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I wouldnt call myself experienced, tho i manage most of the times unless its a tincan or knockdown, or both...I usually just jump in the middle of 3-4 ppl and circle around them. I survive, most of the time anyway. :)
If by any chance i go 18/21, could the 7 ATH be sufficient to chase archers/xbowers?
Whats that? Danish greatsword? I had a 2handed character as 1st gen.
Turtle? I dont want shields :).
I have 8 ath on my main and it's not really enough for catching most archers because they either work together or have more ath. Also, going for archers isn't smart thing to do.
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Thought your'e going with shield.
Without shield you can do: 15/24 18/21 21/18 24/14 and so on.
27-15, 24-18, 21-21......these are also available to no shielders.
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I have 8 ath on my main and it's not really enough for catching most archers because they either work together or have more ath. Also, going for archers isn't smart thing to do.
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1h is one of the hardest weapons to be effective with in that you really have to refine the raw speed bonus with properly landed hits in the correct timing of the animation. When I attempt to connect a hit, I visualize a hard hit(or a series of unpredictable feints) that is also visually appealing. If you just swing without further thought, you will become predictable and quickly spammed. A good duelist/player will spot someone who doesn't use his wits to fight in a few seconds and spam them.
tl;dr Think before you swing.
Some pointers for improving on the long run:
-Be ready to block a lot(if shieldless)
-Try chambering, it will get you a long way when mastered
-Practice feints
-Learn the ranges of your weapon
-Focus on your opponent as a whole, not only his attack directions, that includes vs multiple enemies
-Pretty much same as above; don't tunnel vision
-Spent at least 1 hour per day on duel server(preferably longer)
-Always duel someone better than you
There is more, but I might make a really conclusive tutorial with videos sometime next year or December(next year).
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im pretty handy as a shielder in most battles and i used to be a decent dueler untill they nerfed spin stabs :P Ive got a mighty broad axe and a Mw LEE so i think ill duel around a bit more with the lee untill i get used to it again :D dont expect to see me in the top 100 duelists with 1h tho ^^
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Right swing to outrange & troll 2hero's who think they can spam. :lol:
Everything has been said really, thought i'd add this. :)
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here is a tip
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I was watching you're signature, does it ever end? It's longer than my attention span, thats for sure.
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Only experienced players can kill with 5 PS and one handed sword.
I have 1 PS on one of my alts (Quickfeet) using a 1H without shield.
Currently level 30 with 11 AT and 11 WM (will both be 12 at level 31).
It's quite an extreme build but I still manage to do quite well with it. The speed bonus and 197 WPF in 1H makes the damage pretty decent.
I can imagine it would be somewhat OP in the hands of a really good 1H player (not me that is).
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If by fine you mean having 0-5 score 80% of the time then you might be right :P
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No offense, Riddaren, but that is a stupid build and far from potentially OP. :lol:
Fun, maybe, but OP? :lol:
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No offense, Riddaren, but that is a stupid build and far from potentially OP. :lol:
Fun, maybe, but OP? :lol:
:D
Don't underestimate this build, it can be deadly good if used by a skilled player with patience.
I mean, in theory, if you were really good, you could be able to take on 10 melee guys at the same time.
38 HP and low armour surely makes you extremely fragile vs ranged but they are also the only ones who can kill you really.
And with 12 athletics dodging missiles becomes as easy as it can get.
Melee (horses and infantry) can only kill you if you let them.
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If by fine you mean having 0-5 score 80% of the time then you might be right :P
301/787, 1:2.6 is my stats so far with this build.
I have even topped the scoreboard a few times, for a few rounds... :D
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I think Kinngrimm has a 12/30 build or something in that line. Probably a 31+ build, but he's doing pretty well with it, topping the score most of the time I see him on the servers.
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There is more, but I might make a really conclusive tutorial with videos sometime next year or December(next year).
I am still waiting for two handed tutorial!
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@Laufknoten kingrimm is lvl 35 and isnt the best shielder
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Most important rule I have is "Stay alive!". I suck at duels and 1v1, but when it comes to getting kills I'm ok with that. Most people die, because they hunt kills and get into bad positions. I try not to. Everytime I die is mainly, because I played without brains and got myself into bad situation. Shield helps out a lot in staying alive. Its better to turtle and swing for a long time than get one kill and die.
I'm doing 24/15 build. So far its 21/15 and its very effective.
I also have 15/18 atm and its ok with masterwork nordic. I do suggest getting atleast PS 7.
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Stick to the bad guys left shoulder like your life depends on it and then do this http://recordsetter.com/world-record/longest-time-running-bat-on-forehead/9341#contentsection
While following Koyama's tip.
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I played it last gen and it was pretty damn brutal(Im going for it again this gen)
People kick you so what ?
With this build you gonna have
7 PS
7 IF
5 ATH
5 WM
if they managed to kick/slash you you lose a portion of your health but if you managed to land your left swing , you kill them in max 3 hits no matter what they wear.
In battle,strat or siege kicks are not very effective most of the people fail at timing their kick and or even if they kick they fail at hitting due to timing mistake but landing your left swing is the easiest thing to do :)
%0 chance to glance , it goes to head all the time = WIN .
This is my way of playing shielder , since i actively play on strat i have to have a STR based character but for public use 18/18 is just fine aswell.
I disagree people who claim that shielders should be fastmover spammers , i tried that aswell and it's funny how fail that is.
I play my shielder as a pusher , since i have a fucking huge shield i should be the guy who climbs the ladder , rushes to tower , charge the enemy group first !
I heard people giving athletics to shielders because they think it's their duty to chase archers lol
It's horsemen's job not yours !
Some people say you need athletics to getaway from bad situations.
Yeah you do need it unless you have a shield that blocks any attack coming towards you.You can just hold right click and wait for your teammates to arrive.After few hit people will start relentlessly swing their weapons at you and lose concentration thinking you are paniced and since you are a shielder you deal shit damage so they don't even think about possibility of getting hurt by your attack , then ta-da a surprise left-swing might even get you an easy kill while you wait for your teammates.
Some people say you need athletics to switch targets faster and hit them more times by your high wpf.
I disagree again.
Let's think of it.
Your steel pick is your best tincan opener it deals 32p
Surprise ! Great maul deals 43b ,has crush through and its longer
Elite scimitar a high tier mainstream 3 direction 1h deals 31c
Warcleaver a high tiermainstream 3 direction 2h deals 45c and its longer
Nordic champion sword a high tier mainstream 4 direction 1h deals 32c
Danish greatsword a high tier mainstream 4 direction 2hander deals 40c and it's longer
Take those 2 handers if you want to be an agiwhore bunny like jumping spammer because even with low PS , they hit like a truck but when you swing your 31c damage sword with 5 ps...its just a source of entertainment to your enemy.
You are outclassed in damage and reach while your weapons are always faster .
Giving more speed will just cause faster glances to compete with 2handers in terms of damage and being deadly , you need to increase your damage as much as you can to compete this damage .Since you can't have longer reach than any 2h and you are already faster only thing you need to improve is your damage.
TL;DR 100 bites of a fly can't kill a man but a single bite of lion can .
Yeah it's a solid build but I would make 1 change, not a big one but I've found it helps.
21/18
6IF
7PS
4Shield
6ATH
But you need a good +3 Shield.
The other way to go that I find terrifying is:
24/15
7IF
8PS
3Shield
5ATH
You take a serious beating and deliver horrible amounts of damage. I like this build for cav but with the ATH subbed for riding, I also wear full +3 plate and ride a cataphract so I take a serious beating and when I do finally land a hit through the sea of 300 ping it really, really hurts.
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Yeah it's a solid build but I would make 1 change, not a big one but I've found it helps.
21/18
6IF
7PS
4Shield
6ATH
But you need a good +3 Shield.
The other way to go that I find terrifying is:
24/15
7IF
8PS
3Shield
5ATH
You take a serious beating and deliver horrible amounts of damage. I like this build for cav but with the ATH subbed for riding, I also wear full +3 plate and ride a cataphract so I take a serious beating and when I do finally land a hit through the sea of 300 ping it really, really hurts.
But why no WM ?
Without sufficient WPF , your heavy armour will destroy the bonus damage that given by your powerstrike so giving 8 ps would be useless.
If you decide to wear light armor it's ok but with heavy armor i don't see the point of giving more ps since your damage is getting cropped by wpf penalty heavily.
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I tested out the cropping with heavy armour going naked and in full plate and dealt the same damage. I'm not sure if it has an effect on PS, I know it does on throwing and archery.
104 should be all I need for 8 power strike. I would like to know if it really is doing it, because if it is then I really need to change my build to 21/15 with 5 points in MW to deal with the heavy wpf reduction.
Thanks for pointing it out, I'm going to go back and test it again.
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Just tested it on duel.
Full plate I did half damage to a guy with an over head.
Same guy naked first hit only did a quarter I then held the swing on for a second more and did the same damage.
I don't think it effects PS...
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I tested out the cropping with heavy armour going naked and in full plate and dealt the same damage. I'm not sure if it has an effect on PS, I know it does on throwing and archery.
104 should be all I need for 8 power strike. I would like to know if it really is doing it, because if it is then I really need to change my build to 21/15 with 5 points in MW to deal with the heavy wpf reduction.
Thanks for pointing it out, I'm going to go back and test it again.
No problem , i didn't test it personally , im speaking by what i read on "Game mechanics mega thread"
Melee damage
Damage before armor is calculated by:
hold_bonus * (WPF*0.01*0.15+0.85)*(power_strike*0.08+1.0)+strength/5.0
Implications:
- Each power strike point is 8% extra damage
- 10 wpf is equal to 1.5% damage. You have a 15% damage penalty at 0 wpf compared to base weapon damage. At 100 wpf there is no penalty or bonus to damage.
But still , 5 wm is too much you get 146 or something wpf with it but 120 is enough for my armour set for example.2 wm would be sufficient.Cuz with 120 wpf , i get 101 effective wpf (No penalty from wpf).
With 5 wm i get 147 wpf and 124 effective wpf it gives me like 2 damage more.
Instead of 2 more damage , you could invest those 3 excess points into riding or throwing maybe but with 3 points you couldn't be useful rider nor thrower tho :D
For people who doesn't know how to calculate stuff and charbuild in cRPG:
Test your effective WPF here : http://infinitum.dyndns.org/crpg/calc.htm
edit:
Tap your attacks for fair test , you know holding your attack increases your damage aswell .
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Until now I always went 21/15 with 5 WM, on my final build (and one I ceased retireing) I've ditched WM in favour of 24/15 - I wear heavy equipment and while most players are faster than me they certainly feel the pain when I hit them. Speed bonus, holds and head shots thrown in I'll kill equally well armoured players in three to four hits on average. Great build for piling into a mob, well able to whistand the innumerable team hits a group-oriented shielder exposes himself to.
Highly recommended if you rather stick to the pack than go solo.
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4 wm is enough for pure 1h shielder? wpf penaly is like 30-35 with my armor, or it is better to have 6 wm and 2 if less?
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4 wm is enough for pure 1h shielder? wpf penaly is like 30-35 with my armor, or it is better to have 6 wm and 2 if less?
0 is enough, I'm sure you'll do fine with 4.
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Hmmm i'll try 0 wm next gen.
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Hmmm i'll try 0 wm next gen.
dont go 0 wm, for example with 6 ps and mw iron war axe(40 cut) and like 110 1h wpf you will glance on 50+ armor sometimes, so if you have armor i suggest 130-145 wpf atleast.
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dont go 0 wm, for example with 6 ps and mw iron war axe(40 cut) and like 110 1h wpf you will glance on 50+ armor sometimes, so if you have armor i suggest 130-145 wpf atleast.
20-30 points of WPF won't change that. Using held attacks or a blunt or pierce weapon will. WPF does BARELY anything for damage.
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dont go 0 wm, for example with 6 ps and mw iron war axe(40 cut) and like 110 1h wpf you will glance on 50+ armor sometimes, so if you have armor i suggest 130-145 wpf atleast.
Using mw steel pick (33 pierce) with 7 ps like a boss so i think i won't glance at all.
Btw i made an experimental alt with 4 ps and 172 wpf guess what , steel pick glances on armor with 4 ps and 172 wpf lol
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My alt is 12/22 atm with 0 ps 53 in 1h wpf and with shortsword glancing it is not a problem. Biggest problem is damage but my alt will be 12/27 annoydaggerthrower :shock:
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Using mw steel pick (33 pierce) with 7 ps like a boss so i think i won't glance at all.
Btw i made an experimental alt with 4 ps and 172 wpf guess what , steel pick glances on armor with 4 ps and 172 wpf lol
I like the new avatar. That's more like the koyama I have in my head.
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I like the new avatar. That's more like the koyama I have in my head.
Nah that is Harun Yahya not koyama .
He claims he is messiah , jesus's new life to save humankind.(He is muslim and he objects darwinism and shit he also claims that computers and science is made by allah aswell.)
Koyama is sadly this:
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No , i didn't know him before i get this name.
No , i wouldn't get the name Koyama if i knew that japmy old friend before :lol:
Although it sounds Japanese , in Turkish "Koy ama" means "bang the pussy"
and for the last time no, i don't know why i post all those irrevelant info in this suggestion thread.
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this is impossible to do with 5 athl. You will get kicked all the time,and you will be everyones bitch.
you need 12/27 build for that.
I did exactly this with a +3 Steel Pick and the 5 ath was fine. Wrecks peoples faces lol
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I did exactly this with a +3 Steel Pick and the 5 ath was fine. Wrecks peoples faces lol
Depends on the opponent. If you're fighting somebody who has high ath and who can kick consistently, 5 ath with a pick is going to force you to play very defensively / boring.
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Depends on the opponent. If you're fighting somebody who has high ath and who can kick consistently, 5 ath with a pick is going to force you to play very defensively / boring.
True, but I find as long as you keep moving you can avoid the kicks, I usually just side step them as long as I never sit one place too long. And the Steel Pick seems to just fuck people up, does so much damage, and the feints fucks people up pretty badly. But if you're footwork isn't the greatest, definitely advise against a different weapon or you'll get s-keyed/kicked to death.
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Using mw steel pick (33 pierce) with 7 ps like a boss so i think i won't glance at all.
Btw i made an experimental alt with 4 ps and 172 wpf guess what , steel pick glances on armor with 4 ps and 172 wpf lol
Because you need footwork. Forward momentum.
People tend to forget 'bout that.