cRPG

Strategus => Strategus General Discussion => Topic started by: Slamz on July 31, 2012, 02:44:15 am

Title: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: Slamz on July 31, 2012, 02:44:15 am
I'd like to know more about what's in store for the future of Strategus crafting.

The current system kinda sucks.  Let me count the ways...

* The burden of crafting tends to be on a small group of people: the people with the most points in the most +3 items.  Out of NH, probably 95% of the crafting burden is on 3 people.  The rest CAN craft stuff but why make "Mail Hauberks" at all when someone else can make "Lordly Scale Armor", which is similar enough and a lot better?  The "Mail Hauberk" guy might as well just not have any points at all.

* It creates a burden on what you wear in game.  I don't really want to be "the swingable polearm guy" but nobody else in the clan uses swingable polearms, so I keep doing it so we at least have someone who can make them (e.g., Mighty Great Long Axe).  Similarly, when I'm bleeding cash I like to downgrade my cRPG armor to something cheaper but then I get "chadz text" and it costs me points in my loomed gear and gives me points in stuff I will never craft.


Whatever the new crafting system is, I think it needs to distribute the crafting better, somehow letting more people be useful rather than all the burden being on the gen 15+ people, and I think it somehow needs to free us up to play however we want in cRPG rather than forcing us to use what we need to craft.
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: Slamz on July 31, 2012, 02:53:07 am
Just as a specific example:

NH_Veraphim has 33 points in a +0 helmet, 33 points in a +0 boot, 24 points in a +0 body armor, etc.

He's a fairly active player but he will never craft anything for NH because there is at least one person who is better at everything.  Turboflex has more points in a +3 helmet, I have more points in a +3 boot, Turbo, Zan and I have more points in a +3 body armor, etc.

So NH_Veraphim has all these points and they're basically useless, which is not that good for strategus player morale.



We need a system that doesn't simply cut out 95% of the players.
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on July 31, 2012, 03:11:21 am
I'm completely with you.

I've got 1 guy for armour and don't bother with anything else because his got 76 skill!

It needs to be directed and controlled. And possibly you should be able to stack your crafting so you have say 4 slots you can use for crafting and you can stack all 4 with one item.

I was thinking last night 2 hours of game play should roughly = 1 skill point so it take a rather active player around 3 months to max out crafting and crafting should degrade when you don't have the items selected with the gear pool or just don't play for say 2 weeks they all degrade a bit.

And it should be a solid simple xp gain that causes the skill to go up.

Current random luck system is balls. I got 3 ticks yesterday where as Arys hasn't had one in 2 gens...

------

Perhaps people should have an option to be able to burn all there ticks and apply then to different things, like a single item they have crafting in or improving there crafting rate for goods or recruiting.
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: Smoothrich on July 31, 2012, 03:22:47 am
Just get rid of heirloomed gear/crafting in Strategus entirely, its garbage and I'm sick of the strength build/heavy cav players porting their lordly plate and champion cataphracts/mw heavy lances from the shit battle servers to even shittier strat battle servers. 

chadz points is a horrible system, transferring and organizing gear and army loadouts in strat is unreasonably difficult and time consuming, and the ability for stacked clans to amass lordly plate and MW top tier weapons makes getting involved in Strat a prohibitively awful idea.
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: Dach on July 31, 2012, 03:32:40 am
NOOOOOOOO!

Don't put my strat blacksmithing skill in the bin, currently having 8 Mw item with 15 or more skill in it!  :(

Fallen_Dach, future ex-blacksmith for the brigade.  :P
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: Slamz on July 31, 2012, 04:02:44 am
I'd like to see something more like maybe "Clan Crafting".

If I have 50 points in Nordic Warlord Helmet then everyone in the clan can craft Nordic Warlord Helmet at 50 points, regardless of if they personally have it.

So "Blacksmiths" still have good value, but you just need to get them in your clan and then everyone with points can do those items.  (Perhaps crafting will take 5 strat points -- 4 from the crafter and 1 from the person who has the recipe, so you can't just have 1 idle blacksmith supply the clan forever.)
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: Havoco on July 31, 2012, 05:04:28 am
Really looking forward to a change tbh. I've been wanting to respec my main for a while now, but since I've had to craft things for hospis I can't.
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: Visconti on July 31, 2012, 05:11:37 am
Just need to go back to Strat 2.0 so we can have some fun again.
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: HardRice on July 31, 2012, 05:25:02 am
Quote from: Visconti on July 31, 2012, 05:11:37 am
Just need to go back to Strat 2.0 so we can have some fun again.

Yup.

I'd prefer if we just used buy menu, so +3 plate wouldn't be everywhere.
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: Lt_Anders on July 31, 2012, 05:49:07 am
Quote from: HardRice on July 31, 2012, 05:25:02 am
Yup.

I'd prefer if we just used buy menu, so +3 plate wouldn't be everywhere.

I think that Crafting is fine as long as it's like...your character has 20 skill and you can craft anyitem(instead of buying that 1 item) to make it a valid tactical choice.

spend 1 week crafting those items for 40% less, or get them NOW with no price decrease.

(If we loose looms all my craft whoring in samurai gear will be useless :evil:)
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: Braeden on July 31, 2012, 06:41:33 am
The future of crafting will be about 100% different.  It is being worked on, and is intended to:

A.  Make things easier
B.  Make things awesomer
C.  Not be random chance based

I will leave the leaking of more information to the devs.
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: HardRice on July 31, 2012, 06:43:21 am
Quote from: Braeden on July 31, 2012, 06:41:33 am
The future of crafting will be about 100% different.  It is being worked on, and is intended to:

A.  Make things easier
B.  Make things awesomer
C.  Not be random chance based

I will leave the leaking of more information to the devs.

HE KNOWS!!

 :shock: :shock: :shock:
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: Havoco on July 31, 2012, 06:53:17 am
Personally I think they should make it so that every x amount of xp u gain in crpg u get a y amount of points to put into an item(any item plz).

Quote from: Braeden on July 31, 2012, 06:41:33 am
The future of crafting will be about 100% different.  It is being worked on, and is intended to:

A.  Make things easier
B.  Make things awesomer
C.  Not be random chance based

I will leave the leaking of more information to the devs.

But if Braeden promises the change will be awesome then i guess ill just have to go on that.
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on July 31, 2012, 09:30:35 am
Yeah they said they were completely reworking it a while ago. I would just like to have some idea of how, and when.

I love being able to produce masses of construction materials and csites as I please, but playing every other gen as a csite nub is... painful, very painful.

What I would like is for the chadz random text of horror to just be turned off until the new system is implemented. Currently there are a great many players shackled beneath the weight of there own black smithing ability. But only if they know the new system will be rolled out inside of 2 months.
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: chadz on July 31, 2012, 10:36:13 am
Fiefs will get loom points over time that can be spent to upgrade the equip you can buy in the fief.
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: Bjord on July 31, 2012, 10:38:58 am
Quote from: chadz on July 31, 2012, 10:36:13 am
Fiefs will get loom points over time that can be spent to upgrade the equip you can buy in the fief.

How long is this time? And is there any way to decrease the time, i.e upgrading your "technology".

Could help with diversity in Strat, all the clans will start looming item combinations unique to their theme.
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: Vibe on July 31, 2012, 10:40:53 am
Should also help a single clan wanting more fiefs instead of just holding them and idling
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: Bjord on July 31, 2012, 10:43:31 am
Naturally, but mainly this will give some incense to new players to give Strat a try, and will make Strat more of a team effort instead of one or few sole suppliers of items.
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: Vovka on July 31, 2012, 11:04:29 am
Quote from: chadz on July 31, 2012, 10:36:13 am
Fiefs will get loom points over time that can be spent to upgrade the equip you can buy in the fief.
I think this means that over time UIF will have a greater variety of +3 items than others (EU atleast)
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: Rhekimos on July 31, 2012, 11:11:21 am
Quote from: Vovka on July 31, 2012, 11:04:29 am
I think this means that over time UIF will have a greater variety of +3 items than others (EU atleast)

To be fair, if the fiefs are of any use at all, it always means that the strong will only get stronger.
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: Jarlek on July 31, 2012, 05:17:13 pm
Quote from: chadz on July 31, 2012, 10:36:13 am
Fiefs will get loom points over time that can be spent to upgrade the equip you can buy in the fief.
Ilvia: The home of the Elder Scrolls Torches!
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: Turboflex on July 31, 2012, 05:52:58 pm
Quote from: chadz on July 31, 2012, 10:36:13 am
Fiefs will get loom points over time that can be spent to upgrade the equip you can buy in the fief.

Can we get anymore hints so people can plan a bit?

What happens to current skill points? wiped? What will the new system hold for lvl 31+? Will they have craft penalties still?

Would appreciate knowing now cuz I'm one of those guys who's basically "trapped" as a clan crafter. Would be relieving to find out I don't have to worry about personal skill levels anymore. I am also in a position to stop retiring my main, but holding back cuz of current strat crafting system so would be grateful for clarification on that too.
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: Ad1no on July 31, 2012, 07:00:45 pm
I hope that those of us with high crafting skill will be compensated when the changes arrive. I've used the same armor for a year to get so high!

Lordly White Transitional Armor with Surcoat   99   75%   60
Cased Greaves   99   75%   15
Lordly White Tournament Helmet   81   72%   27
Lordly Plate Mittens   72   71%   37
Mighty Swiss Halberd   71   70%   32
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: chadz on July 31, 2012, 08:06:39 pm
A pat on the back, if you want
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: LastKaze on July 31, 2012, 08:21:58 pm
RIP My Crafting List
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: Turboflex on July 31, 2012, 08:24:55 pm
So that's why we are always wearing those stupid kettle rimmed hats that don't clip properly with my beard.
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: Lech on July 31, 2012, 09:19:36 pm
Quote from: chadz on July 31, 2012, 10:36:13 am
Fiefs will get loom points over time that can be spent to upgrade the equip you can buy in the fief.

Cool, we will still have everything maxed out like before. Shame that we won't have italian swords and heraldic armors this time around. On the other hand with our number of fiefs and players we will stay on the top which is neat.

Quote from: LastKaze on July 31, 2012, 08:21:58 pm
RIP My Crafting List
(click to show/hide)
Bitch, please :rolleyes:
Lordly Heraldic Mail with Tabard   99   75%   20
Lordly Mail Mittens   99   75%   4
Masterwork Italian Sword   99   75%   22
Masterpiece Knightly Kite Shield   99   75%   14
Lordly Great Helmet with Hat   99   75%   23
Mighty Winged Mace   99   75%   14
Lordly Mail Chausses   90   74%   5
Quote from: Dach on July 31, 2012, 03:32:40 am
NOOOOOOOO!

Don't put my strat blacksmithing skill in the bin, currently having 8 Mw item with 15 or more skill in it!  :(

Fallen_Dach, future ex-blacksmith for the brigade.  :P

Lol, just 15 skill. I have 7 items maxed out (6 at 99, 1 at 90).
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on July 31, 2012, 09:25:10 pm
Well I'll welcome the change (wont' hit me as hard as some of you), but I do like that I can craft champ coursers and mw heavy lances for like 60% of the non-heirloomed price. 

I think the new change will be much improved.  I was so worried on this gen, being it's my final build.  I just got +3 heraldic mail with surcoat and was going to retire again if I didn't get the chadztext but luckily I did twice this gen so far.  Now that it's going away, that sucks balls.

I've had all the same problems as frank, worried that I'm going to get chadztext if I go to cheap gear, so I was playing an alt and basically leeching (using the worst gear and pitchfork) until I got money for my main.  I also think it was unfair to people who were retired, they play just as much or more as other people, why wouldn't they be able to learn from all their hard work?
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: Lech on July 31, 2012, 09:30:42 pm
Quote from: CrazyCracka420 on July 31, 2012, 09:25:10 pm
Well I'll welcome the change (wont' hit me as hard as some of you), but I do like that I can craft champ coursers and mw heavy lances for like 60% of the non-heirloomed price. 

I think the new change will be much improved.  I was so worried on this gen, being it's my final build.  I just got +3 heraldic mail with surcoat and was going to retire again if I didn't get the chadztext but luckily I did twice this gen so far.  Now that it's going away, that sucks balls.

I've had all the same problems as frank, worried that I'm going to get chadztext if I go to cheap gear, so I was playing an alt and basically leeching (using the worst gear and pitchfork) until I got money for my main.  I also think it was unfair to people who were retired, they play just as much or more as other people, why wouldn't they be able to learn from all their hard work?

25 damn generation. I would just go to 16 and level up if i would know it's going to the bin. Would be lvl 34, fuck this shit :(

(on the other hand, thanks to me, my faction control so much land)
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: BaleOhay on July 31, 2012, 09:37:10 pm
Guess this will ruin the nice little crafting business i have been running.
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: Lech on July 31, 2012, 09:42:14 pm
Quote from: BaleOhay on July 31, 2012, 09:37:10 pm
Guess this will ruin the nice little crafting business i have been running.
Guess so, no point in being strat-clanless (with faction who don't participate on strategus) anymore.
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: Turboflex on July 31, 2012, 09:53:10 pm
Quote from: BaleOhay on July 31, 2012, 09:37:10 pm
Guess this will ruin the nice little crafting business i have been running.

You probably couldn't do it yourself anymore, but you still could do something  like organize some other free traders and/or indepedant mercs, and acquire a fief to run it out of
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: Lech on July 31, 2012, 09:55:14 pm
Quote from: Turboflex on July 31, 2012, 09:53:10 pm
You probably couldn't do it yourself anymore, but you still could do something  like organize some other free traders and/or indepedant mercs, and acquire a fief to run it out of

So run a clan that isn't called clan ? Hell yeah. Why not just creating true clan ?
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: Turboflex on July 31, 2012, 10:09:39 pm
call it a cooperative or merchant league, they did exist in the middle ages and held cities.
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: Lech on July 31, 2012, 10:18:03 pm
Hanza, yeah. But from gameplay perspective it would be just another clan, behaving just like regular clan. Look at caravan guards, they also are something like this, themed organisation, but they don't do what their name suggest (not it's even possible in current flawed strategus).
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: Gnjus on July 31, 2012, 10:28:12 pm
Quote from: Lech on July 31, 2012, 09:30:42 pm
(on the other hand, thanks to me, my faction control so much land)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login



If you need any hints about crafting just ask Lech & the rest of Grey Slav(e)s, they could help the devs best with their experience & advises.
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: Slamz on July 31, 2012, 11:18:59 pm
Quote from: chadz on July 31, 2012, 10:36:13 am
Fiefs will get loom points over time that can be spent to upgrade the equip you can buy in the fief.

So you're saying that crafting is going away entirely, to be replaced by buying?  (With fiefs being able to upgrade items within their buy lists.)


....I'm actually not opposed to that.  As mentioned, I do get tired of having to play something specific in cRPG just to be able to craft it in Strategus.


...Although I do wonder if there shouldn't still be some limited production rate.  Currently you have to prepare for a fight in advance, and you risk all that gear you have laying around if someone attacks at the wrong time (you aren't quite ready yet).  Under a buy-only system with no limits, you would just wander around with a million gold in your pocket, risking very little with your naked 1000-troop army, then you see a good target and blamo, instant equipment for 1000 troops.

Basically you could go deep into enemy territory with almost no risk, and then equip your army suddenly once you get there.

You CAN do that now but at a ridiculously high cost compared to crafting over time.
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: Lech on July 31, 2012, 11:20:18 pm
Quote from: Gnjus on July 31, 2012, 10:28:12 pm
(click to show/hide)


If you need any hints about crafting just ask Lech & the rest of Grey Slav(e)s, they could help the devs best with their experience & advises.

Most was already said in public anyway. Aren't you Slav too ? And yeah, we can help the devs with our ides and experience.
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: Knute on July 31, 2012, 11:34:33 pm
Quote from: Turboflex on July 31, 2012, 09:53:10 pm
You probably couldn't do it yourself anymore, but you still could do something  like organize some other free traders and/or indepedant mercs, and acquire a fief to run it out of

That's what happened with Fisdnar, a couple bandits and independent traders combined resources to take it.  Most villages on the EU side were locked down with 100 gold fees so our aim (at least some of us :)) was to create a place for clanless people to work, sometimes combining resources for bigger things like raids and taking AI fiefs just for the loot.  I'm sure a bunch of people with a similar vision will group up and do the same thing again next version of strategus if bigger clans allow.

--------

Sounds interesting, looking forward to hearing more details.  Like is this new system something where fief owners could potentially have one really cheap item if they put all their loom points in it?  Or is it a system where you gradually unlock better equipment?
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on August 01, 2012, 12:56:09 am
Quote from: Lech on July 31, 2012, 10:18:03 pm
Hanza, yeah. But from gameplay perspective it would be just another clan, behaving just like regular clan. Look at caravan guards, they also are something like this, themed organisation, but they don't do what their name suggest (not it's even possible in current flawed strategus).

The Free Peasants of Fisdnar formed out of a group independent trades to take Rivercheg.

I for one will be working on a trade faction for the next round of strat (if it happens sooner rather than later) with only a hand full of fiefs and a shit load of organisation.

-----

One thing I will say is this whole change needs to happen sooner rather than later.

I have been playing with horrible shit ping for the sake of my pals, all my own doing so it's on me but if all the crafting I've been developing in csites and con mats is going to = nothing at all I would rather no now than later.
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: BaleOhay on August 01, 2012, 02:38:00 am
I will be a little disappointed. I loomed my gear based on what I thought would be useful in strat.

instead of husc or heavy round shield I loomed a round shield. Cheaper to mass produce. Same with my MW simeple sword over many better options, same for my hat. So that is a little bleh. but what can you do.
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: Turboflex on August 01, 2012, 04:39:16 am
SO you're the guy responsible for all those round shields!!

HEAVY ROUND
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on August 01, 2012, 08:55:40 am
Yeah his my boy :D I'm always getting Bale to pump out shields for the Free Peasants. No idea how many we are up to now, its a couple :D
Title: Re: Crafting: what's the future hold?
Post by: BaleOhay on August 01, 2012, 06:53:36 pm
Yeah that is me. i make them for like 10-15 gold per shield. so they are a nice option when mw. if u see mw round shields, or mw simple swords around or kettle hats they likely were made in the Hayloft