cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Daniisme on July 24, 2012, 10:50:14 am

Title: Polearms reach VS 2h
Post by: Daniisme on July 24, 2012, 10:50:14 am
For what iv seen from playing both of them I noticed that 2h is way overeach.

And im not talking about stabs only the swings reach some how is longer then my elegent poleaxe,a katana was like 1.70 meters from me and the guy was quite fast so i was walking back a bit and he reached me.....

Im the only 1 seen this?
Title: Re: Polearms reach VS 2h
Post by: Nightingale on July 24, 2012, 11:13:11 am
Pole arms the animation has you holding the middle of the weapon. Two-handed weapons the animation your holding the hilt, meaning 132 reach but your holding the center of the shaft while the katana user is holding the end.... but still if your being out reached by a katana with a pole axe something is wrong. Perhaps it was a Nodachii?

I am sure someone else could explain it with more details.
Title: Re: Polearms reach VS 2h
Post by: Zerran on July 24, 2012, 11:19:26 am
OP is correct, 2H weapons get a massive reach bonus on all attacks. Polearms get atrocious reach bonuses on their swings, and even worse reach on their thrust.

Katana can't outreach a poleaxe unless your timing was a bit bad, but a nodachi can do so very easily (and even then, the katana is a lot closer to the reach of a poleaxe then it should be).
Title: Re: Polearms reach VS 2h
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on July 24, 2012, 11:22:44 am
so even if some might say you have a point there, first you make a thread in suggestions and then nearly the same in General discussion? and outranged by a katana? makes you look like a 2h hater and weakens your argument, imo.

2H weapons get a massive reach bonus on all attacks.
this is getting ridiculous.
Title: Re: Polearms reach VS 2h
Post by: Zerran on July 24, 2012, 11:50:11 am
this is getting ridiculous.

How so? Unless I'm mistaken, both tests done regarding reach concluded that 2H animations give some big reach bonuses. Even disregarding those, go grab a bec and tell me you have the same reach as a nodachi. I agree that a katana can't outreach a poleaxe, but a 2H of the same "length" as a polearm WILL outreach it.
Title: Re: Polearms reach VS 2h
Post by: Count_Adhamar on July 24, 2012, 12:45:36 pm
How so? Unless I'm mistaken, both tests done regarding reach concluded that 2H animations give some big reach bonuses. Even disregarding those, go grab a bec and tell me you have the same reach as a nodachi. I agree that a katana can't outreach a poleaxe, but a 2H of the same "length" as a polearm WILL outreach it.

Yeah we don't need research to show 2h animations give reach bonuses, it's pretty obvious. But what do you expect? The grip of the 2h is at the base of the blade, the polearm near the middle. You want the bec to have the same reach as a nodachi? Lol. Two handers of the same length as a polearm will outreach it, yeah, as they should due to where the weapons are held. I don't know what you're trying to achieve here, besides wanting polearms to outreach 2hers no matter of where they're gripped. Please, you might want to "research" how different weapons should be held.
Title: Re: Polearms reach VS 2h
Post by: Ptolemy on July 24, 2012, 12:50:30 pm
A katana will never out-reach a polearm (at least not a real polearm, rather than a spear) and nodachi doesn't have a stab anymore, so that can't out-stab anything.

The greatswords however, yes, they are stab OP, massively.
Title: Re: Polearms reach VS 2h
Post by: sF_Guardian on July 24, 2012, 12:52:58 pm
A katana will never out-reach a polearm (at least not a real polearm, rather than a spear) and nodachi doesn't have a stab anymore, so that can't out-stab anything.

The greatswords however, yes, they are stab OP, massively.

They are talkin about reach differences in sideswing animations (and theyre huge).
Title: Re: Polearms reach VS 2h
Post by: Youhou on July 24, 2012, 01:02:20 pm
Most of these kind of threads comes from players who aren't used to game mechanics. Katana will never outreach poleaxe. In your case it either wasn't katana or you had bad timing. Also polearms and 2hs are hold differently and if you think 1,7 meters isn't really long distance between you and fast katana player.
Title: Re: Polearms reach VS 2h
Post by: _Sebastian_ on July 24, 2012, 02:23:24 pm
The weapon reach is measured from the middle of the right hand.

And if you compare the 2h- with the polearm swing animations, you will see that the distance between the characters center position and the position of the right hand is bigger on 2h swings.
So the reach is also bigger on 2h weapons.
Title: Re: Polearms reach VS 2h
Post by: Sagar on July 24, 2012, 02:54:59 pm
A katana will never out-reach a polearm (at least not a real polearm, rather than a spear) and nodachi doesn't have a stab anymore, so that can't out-stab anything.

The greatswords however, yes, they are stab OP, massively.

Your every post is whining how European swords are OP over katana, nodachi and all other eastern weaboo toys. Suck it up, European swords are superior in real life as well as in the game.
Title: Re: Polearms reach VS 2h
Post by: korppis on July 24, 2012, 06:18:21 pm
A katana will never out-reach a polearm (at least not a real polearm, rather than a spear) and nodachi doesn't have a stab anymore, so that can't out-stab anything.

The greatswords however, yes, they are stab OP, massively.

Actually it can get surprisingly close. I tried katana vs bec with a friend in duel once, and they have almost perfectly even side swings. The bec maybe 1 or 2 worth of length more but it means nothing. Bec has 120 length on paper and katana 95 so it was very surprising... but since it's shortest pole the rest should out-reach katana easily.
Title: Re: Polearms reach VS 2h
Post by: beniliusbob on July 24, 2012, 08:17:38 pm
It is not a coincidence that most of the best players (on NA, anyway) fight with greatswords of one kind or another. Greatswords totally rule.

So yeah if anyone wants my +2 German Poleaxe for a +2 Danish Greatsword...
Title: Re: Polearms reach VS 2h
Post by: TurmoilTom on July 24, 2012, 08:25:58 pm
2h isn't op

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Polearms reach VS 2h
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on July 24, 2012, 08:28:30 pm
It is not a coincidence that most of the best players (on NA, anyway) fight with greatswords of one kind or another. Greatswords totally rule.

So yeah if anyone wants my +2 German Poleaxe for a +2 Danish Greatsword...

Just depends.  Yes there's a lot of great sword wielders who can top the scoreboards, but I've seen the same from good pikemen, lancer cav, and even archers. 

I'm sure you've all heard the saying, it's not the tool, it's how you use it.
Title: Re: Polearms reach VS 2h
Post by: Fuma Kotaro on July 24, 2012, 08:36:59 pm
Actually 2handers are longer due to the holding but for balancing all this stuff out (lolstab,epic 2h reach, removed polestagger, thrust abilitiy (bigger disadvantage for pole than for 2h) we should make it a bit more realistic in real the poles are better to block because of their holding because you can stabilize the weapon on both sides because your hands are central 2handers cant do that because they are held just on one said so it should be harder to block with 2h also the swing speed of poles should be higher than the speed of 2h due to mentioned reasons
Title: Re: Polearms reach VS 2h
Post by: Hobb on July 24, 2012, 08:37:39 pm
Pole arms the animation has you holding the middle of the weapon. Two-handed weapons the animation your holding the hilt, meaning 132 reach but your holding the center of the shaft while the katana user is holding the end.... but still if your being out reached by a katana with a pole axe something is wrong. Perhaps it was a Nodachii?

I am sure someone else could explain it with more details.
Title: Re: Polearms reach VS 2h
Post by: Tibe on July 24, 2012, 08:51:07 pm
2h isn't op

It's just the only thing that hasn't been nerfed to the state of being underpowered.

Agreed. I never really felt like I was screwed when I faced a greatsword user vs me with 1h, nor have I ever felt OP when I used it. Its all skill. There is no point of nerfing gswords, cause than polearms whould be left OP and those whould be nerfed too. And if all that keeps going we will be fighting with sticks and actual nerfguns soon.
Title: Re: Polearms reach VS 2h
Post by: ildist on July 24, 2012, 08:54:12 pm
be a true hero and right swing like rhaelys, only way to go for polearms m8
Title: Re: Polearms reach VS 2h
Post by: BlueKnight on July 24, 2012, 09:07:42 pm
(click to show/hide)

When you start with "IN REAL LIFE" please... Try it yourself or try looking for the info. Don't write bullshit because "you think so"
Title: Re: Polearms reach VS 2h
Post by: Piok on July 24, 2012, 09:18:32 pm
Side swing reach differences between 2h and pole does not bother me.
But stab animation is different story. With such range bonus on 2h stab you have practically two weapons in one.
Very good (statwise) 4directional weapon + fast stabbing almost as lance long weapon.  And this is big+ on battlefield in tight group engagements.
Not to mention that 2handers have much better chance not to bounce on high angle hits, which is retarded cause pole arms have much wider angle when swinging left or right often hitting or glancing on somebody who is not in your vision field. So 2h are also spammer choice.
Title: Re: Polearms reach VS 2h
Post by: Patoson on July 24, 2012, 09:23:09 pm
The very few times I've tried polearms, I realised it is harder than 2h.

Like I've said many times in the past, replace greatswords' (only) stab with polearms' - half-swording. Stabbing with a greatsword with the current animation is weird and OP.
Title: Re: Polearms reach VS 2h
Post by: Zerran on July 24, 2012, 10:48:20 pm
Yeah we don't need research to show 2h animations give reach bonuses, it's pretty obvious. But what do you expect? The grip of the 2h is at the base of the blade, the polearm near the middle. You want the bec to have the same reach as a nodachi? Lol. Two handers of the same length as a polearm will outreach it, yeah, as they should due to where the weapons are held. I don't know what you're trying to achieve here, besides wanting polearms to outreach 2hers no matter of where they're gripped. Please, you might want to "research" how different weapons should be held.

I was merely pointing out a game mechanic, no need to start getting all worked up. Should I have told him "No, Polearms and 2Hers have the same reach, you just don't know what you're talking about."?
Title: Re: Polearms reach VS 2h
Post by: Fuma Kotaro on July 24, 2012, 10:50:21 pm
(click to show/hide)

When you start with "IN REAL LIFE" please... Try it yourself or try looking for the info. Don't write bullshit because "you think so"

ahh did you try it?

maybe ive chosen the wrong words but at least I know what  I mean
Title: Re: Polearms reach VS 2h
Post by: sF_Guardian on July 24, 2012, 10:51:32 pm
Stop whining fats, I still can outreach and spam alot of Greatsworders with my MW Glaive of Doom and
LHB goes similarily, balance between Pole and 2H is pretty good atm, no reason to whine about it.
Title: Re: Polearms reach VS 2h
Post by: Leshma on July 24, 2012, 11:00:32 pm
It would be ideal if there was new 2H thrust animation, long enough to be on par with poleaxe thrust length. That would be balanced imo.
Title: Re: Polearms reach VS 2h
Post by: Fuma Kotaro on July 24, 2012, 11:37:50 pm
Stop whining fats, I still can outreach and spam alot of Greatsworders with my MW Glaive of Doom and
LHB goes similarily, balance between Pole and 2H is pretty good atm, no reason to whine about it.

xD glaive spammer this seems to be the most op weapon with the gayswords