cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Leshma on July 23, 2012, 02:51:31 pm
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Two months ago I've started with trading again. During that time I've nearly doubled amount of looms and earned couple millions of gold.
Many will find this repuslive but I didn't cheat anyone. I just understand how marketplace works and know how to get best deals for myself.
During that time I've also noticed something interesting.
Best deals I've had and also people I'm regularly doing business with are mostly American or Chinese players.
I've also noticed that NA players seem to have more looms, looking at marketplace sell section on forums, and their prices are realistic and they know the value of items.
On the other hand, I've noticed that EU player either have little amount of looms or they are trading looms for the whole clan.
EU players have unrealistic prices and I rarely see them trading stuff, it's always the same.
What's your opinion on this topic?
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NA have Poophammer , that's all
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In my opinion you are bored and try to write shit about whatever comes to your mind. Just like me
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Inb4 EU QQ.
Also Asia got the most looms and gold. Nuff said.
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Well, I`m an EU player and trader, tripled my amounth of looms (6 out of 2) and gave 3 looms away.
I just trade cuz I deleted my old char and want looms again, but I begin to be addicted to trading :D
I made many people happy and had some luck too, last guy I made happy
was Massassin, now ive his +3 Long Dagger :)
I think I did 50/50 trades with NA/EU and at least one trade with a chinese guy.
Ive seen unrealistic prices from NA and EU players and honestly didn`t notice a major difference.
I just noticed that young players seem like "overvalueing" their Items, I rather trade with old players.
But yeah, some players just demand too high prices cuz thei dont really want to trade, and if just for a very good
offer, which I can completely understand and have no probs with.
Imo this is just another silly NA vs EU topic.
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I'm very bad at this trading stuff as I'm very low on patience.. Just accept the deal that offers the most money and you'll win. Classes are seasonal so you'll get your stuff traded if you're just willing to give it a time(ofc +3 are the easiest to trade and +2 the hardest).
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It's because Europeans, living in socialist hellholes in government housing, have no true concept of the glory of the free market us True Blue American Heroes do. Your average German sees, say, a loaf of bread for 10 bucks on the market and says "VHAT? I NO HAFF WAIT BREAD LINE?" and immediately buys it. Your average American, using his vast scientific knowledge thoroughly examines the bread and says "This bread is from Eastern Europe, and like all things Eastern European is wormy". The CRPG market works the same way.
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I have 5 +3 items and 2 +1 items and below 200k gold. And I'm gen 15 by now, so 14 loompoints = 4 +3 items and 1 +1 item. I lost a lot when I just accepted a trade when I had no patience to wait for a better deal. I often also paid a top and accepted some bad deals, one for example for my clan, so bagge could get the rus bow +3 recently. =)
After all I'm fine with what I have as too much gold and any looms aren't really needed to play.
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Imo this is just another silly NA vs EU topic.
It's about marketplace economy so I don't think it will assplode like k/d epeen NA vs EU threads. Unless someone comes here with RL talk how american economy is OP or how EU economy is better etc.
Edit: Too late :lol:
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It's about marketplace economy so I don't think it will assplode like k/d epeen NA vs EU threads. Unless someone comes here with RL talk how american economy is OP or how EU economy is better etc.
Edit: Too late :lol:
Thats what I meant Leshma, I didn`t criticize your intention but there are far too many trolls around ;-)
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It's because Europeans, living in socialist hellholes in government housing, have no true concept of the glory of the free market us True Blue American Heroes do. Your average German sees, say, a loaf of bread for 10 bucks on the market and says "VHAT? I NO HAFF WAIT BREAD LINE?" and immediately buys it. Your average American, using his vast scientific knowledge thoroughly examines the bread and says "This bread is from Eastern Europe, and like all things Eastern European is wormy". The CRPG market works the same way.
^
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I've got 40 gens of looms (12 +3s, 1 +2, 2 +1s), and being gen 10, I would think that's pretty good. :)
The market is more about patience and luck than knowing the prices. Just wait for a good deal to come pop up and nail it.
A few days back I traded my loompoint and 20k for a +2 Light Kuyak. Never talked to the guy discussing the trade or anything. The trade popped up on the market and I just happened to get to it first.
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Many will find this repuslive but I didn't cheap anyone. I just understand how marketplace works and know how to get best deals for myself.
Actually if you want to make money on the marketplace, "cheaping" someone is exactly what you have to do. Are you telling me you made gold by buying heirlooms for exactly what they are worth (in your opinion) then reselling them for the exact same price (i.e, what you think they are worth)? Of course not. Just like in RL the traders and speculators provide exactly nothing of worth, no labour and no resources beyond basically fucking over their "customers". They "create" wealth out of other people's labour then tell themselves they are titans of industry, instead of the worthless leeches they are.
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The market is more about patience
This..
Not many people get it an does stupid trades where they pay 150k or 50k for trading items of the same value.
The only reason i made some gold an items on the market is because i wait for people to take my offers or not trade at all i only trade with gold if the item i want rid of is almost impossible to trade...
PRO TIP dont pay 50k on top when u wanna try out a new set of gloves or armor just wait until someone does the deal without gold involved.
Ive made tons of gold fx trading my light kuyak to a heavy one without gold an then trade the same armor back an forth while demanding gold at the sametime its stupid people fall for it.
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i am not patient to trade,and i don't realy know what would i do with some shitty items like some ppl have.
Yeah you have 20 looms,but half of them are pure shit that you bought realy cheap (daggers,tridents,silly hats,very weak armorslike dresses).
I have 4mw items that i think are very uselful and they worth a lot more to me then half of things you earned trading.
I lost arround 800k gold in trading,but i earned 2-3 loompoints. There are always some offers like i give you +2 item,and someone give me +3 item for it.
I got free gen.
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Actually if you want to make money on the marketplace, "cheaping" someone is exactly what you have to do. Are you telling me you made gold by buying heirlooms for exactly what they are worth (in your opinion) then reselling them for the exact same price (i.e, what you think they are worth)? Of course not. Just like in RL the traders and speculators provide exactly nothing of worth, no labour and no resources beyond basically fucking over their "customers". They "create" wealth out of other people's labour then tell themselves they are titans of industry, instead of the worthless leeches they are.
I meant to say, cheat :D
You know, abusing unintentional mistakes. I'm willing to revert the trade if anyone asks me few hours after it's done or maybe a day but no one ever asked.
Of course I'm "cheaping" but not much. My usual price is 60k when I want to make gold by trading equal item for an equal item.
If I ask more that's because I think that my item worths more. In my eyes, good horses and armor will always have higher value than weapons.
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Unless the trade was obviously a mistake (selling a +3item for 150k instead of 1,5mill), there's no need to revert a trade as the marketplace rule also wont take place. :P
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Well, if someone feels that he made mistake I'll do it, regardless of that rule.
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I once bought a heirloom point from Templar_Vincent_Ruth for 625 gold. I gave it back but only got stones in return. Vincent owes me 623 gold :evil:
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I'm not a huge trader but have dabbled when I need to and have 23 loom points for 17 gens. To make a lot of money you gotta spend a lot of time watching market. But some things I've noticed...
As others said, patience. Show your cards leave out your bids and offers and eventually someone will bite. The market here is low volume with wide spreads, so if you're willing to be what on the stock exchange is called a "market maker" you will have impatient people. It's not cheating people it's just working the low and high ends of the spread. The spread is generally a 2:3 ratio of unused loom points to final loomed item + some gold throw in.
Right now people have a poor concept of value as Leshma said. You can buy loompoints for 550k, so why is anyone trying to sell items for more than 1.6 million? Still stuck in past of 6 months ago with looms at 700k... A rare but very good +3 isn't worth more than 1.55ish million, a common +3 isn't worth much more than 1.2m.
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It's not cheating people it's just working the low and high ends of the spread.
I don't actually have as much against speculators and traders as my loathing filled words might suggest, but yeah, that's literally the definition of cheating someone. Working as the middle man you do actually provide some valuable service, such as getting the right items to the right people at the right time, the only off part being the "right" price. The only valuable part of the whole enterprise is acting as a type of escrow. You could make the case that those getting cheated are trading their money not only for the item but also for their time, but proportionally they probably only have a small fraction of the wealth of the traders getting their cut. Just because some people are idiots doesn't make fucking them over (even if they are willing participants, because they are idiots) morally just.
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Just because some people are idiots doesn't make fucking them over (even if they are willing participants, because they are idiots) morally just.
You really believe in that?
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You really believe in that?
Do I believe that acting as a predator to other people, manipulating and scamming them is morally unjust? I'd say it's pretty self-evident. Unless you dress it up in social darwinian retardedness to justify it.
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i think there is some cind of cartel here of traders who sell some stuff,and then lower the price of that item to buy it back,and sell it for more money.
take +3 mail gauntlets for example. 1 month ago that item worth almoust as 3 loompoint,but now it is like 1500k.
Ok prices went down,but others are asking 1700k for other gloves that are much worse and worth less.
First light kuyak worth shitloads of money,now it is almoust like 2 loompoints. There was short period (about one week) when everyone was buying sarranid guard armor,servers were full of ppl wearing it. Now it is so much rare to see.
If i sold kuyak 2 moths ago,i could buy back +3 kuyak and +1 item for that money now.
Rouncey was worth also a lot of money,now nobody want to buy it.
Market is so free that 4-5 ppl with 20 looms could make cartel and steal ppl looms.
Baby wolf is ruining market and getting filty rich. I don't trade because i don't want to give ppl my hardly earned looms for free.
+3 sword 1 milion gold. I would buy it,just to have it because it is so fucking cheap.
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Baby Wolf had to pay 120k+ gold today, for cancelling his auction :D
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I'm really bad at trading. I have shitty deals with jews, i've lost billions of gold and etc.
BUT only thing that make me to continue trading is Kapikulu's
That guys believe that their loom are priceless. Their requests and offers make my day.
Im really thankful to that guys, they make me laugh ---> make my life longer)))
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Baby Wolf had to pay 120k+ gold today, for cancelling his auction :D
nvm he bought 100 +3 gs for 1milin gold and sold ithem for 1300 or 1200k. he ownes the market now.
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When I want a certain item, I will put a decent chunk of gold on top so it gets accepted quicker. As infantry, its almost impossible to lose gold, so it has no value to me other then getting people to accept trades, or buying looms. I would rather have what I want then a bunch of random stuff, because it was cheap to buy or whatever.
To me, I would rather spend my time playing then scouring the market for deals. If I wanted to spend the time to play the market, I would rather do so on the stockmarket where I could make actual money.
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I don't actually have as much against speculators and traders as my loathing filled words might suggest, but yeah, that's literally the definition of cheating someone. Working as the middle man you do actually provide some valuable service, such as getting the right items to the right people at the right time, the only off part being the "right" price. The only valuable part of the whole enterprise is acting as a type of escrow. You could make the case that those getting cheated are trading their money not only for the item but also for their time, but proportionally they probably only have a small fraction of the wealth of the traders getting their cut. Just because some people are idiots doesn't make fucking them over (even if they are willing participants, because they are idiots) morally just.
the crpg market is low volume and wide spread, this kind of market allows a patient trader lots of opportunity to arbitrage this spread. It is NOT cheating people if anything it is helping the market by creating volume and more stable prices. If this arbritrager is creating bids a +3 item at the low end of around 1.1 million and an offer at 1.5 million he is not cheating anyone who accepts these, cuz it's within the natural spread of the items. This is a very honourable form of trading and merchants/traders have been doing it for 1000s of years.
A different moral arguement could be made for more "predatory" traders who only made money by seeking out ignorant people who listed their items at liquidation prices (like a +3 for 900k) or were dummies buying at 1.8m (over the price of 3 loompoints). Taking advantage of the desperate or ignorant on the surface is less honourable than smartly arbitraging, although it's not 100% the traders' fault as the person shouldn't really be trading in the first place if they are that bad at it. As W.C. Fields said "Never give a sucker an even break" but the crpg market isn't really supposed to be a shark tank, just a community tool, which is why it was good the no exploiting entry mistakes rule was created.
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I lack the patience to try and game the system here. Used to play the market more in eve and wow, but then its not exactly hard there.
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Baby Wolf had to pay 120k+ gold today, for cancelling his auction :D
by those taxes, the auction is a no-go anyway :D
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Baby Wolf had to pay 120k+ gold today, for cancelling his auction :D
I was the highest bidder, I should get this money :(