cRPG
cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Zappo on July 23, 2012, 12:33:42 pm
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I am a 1h + Shield, no matter what weapon I use everyone is swinging faster then me no matter wtf I do.. with weapons of speed 100+ they still swing alot faster then me.
Block a hit as soon as block hits I attack but they are already hitting me with their second swing this is just straight bullshit how are they so fast?
if it was just one person yeah ok, but 90% of the people I fight swing fast as hell.
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I am a 1h + Shield, no matter what weapon I use everyone is swinging faster then me no matter wtf I do.. with weapons of speed 100+ they still swing alot faster then me.
Block a hit as soon as block hits I attack but they are already hitting me with their second swing this is just straight bullshit how are they so fast?
if it was just one person yeah ok, but 90% of the people I fight swing fast as hell.
Use left swing and remember to attack after absorbing 2 hits, thats the moment you want to retaliate.
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Use left swing and remember to attack after absorbing 2 hits, thats the moment you want to retaliate.
why is 2 the magic number..
but that still does not explain how people are attacking so much faster then me.. I don't even have time to attack over half the people attacking me and I have over 110 WPF on 1h
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Timing, positioning, facing, turning into swings.
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Timing, positioning, facing, turning into swings.
What he said. You really need to work on your footwork.
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More wpf
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More wpf
and more agi
and more athletics
and teammates with longspear
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You owe me 20k for this tutorial. ;)
1. as shielder you are not soppust to be offensive player
2. longer the weapon,the faster it is. if you see glaive for example it have 90 speed,but it have very big reach so if player go backwards he will always outspam you,and he will always be faster then you.
3. moust of 2h have 18/21 or 21/18 builds,so they have 6-7 or more athletics,so they move faster then you. You have shield that slows you down a lot.
4. shield speed plays big part in fighting,and weight of your gear. So you need to get any of knightly shields that have 100 or over speed,and use some lighter armors.
5. always be close to team,alone you are easy pray. You are support class,not some 2h hero/rambo.
6. pick longer weapons,or pick some of the picks (steel,military),but i would say knightly arming sword and nordic champ is only swords you need to use because they have pretty big reach.
7.avoid big clusterfucks because you have small reach and everyone will tw you a lot.
8. moust of 2h are spamming sluts so if you see that he is faster,turtle and move back to teammates.
9. moust of 2h will use kick,so don't go straight at them,be little in side to avoid that.
10. know where to move,and when to attack. don't follow ppl in fight with mob if you don't know who they are,becasue moust of ppl run away and let you die.
11. don't attack alone ppl with big polearms or with axes,or you are dead because they will smash ur shield and backpedal or spam you to death.
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It's all about footwork. Imagine you are facing an enemy, but he is slightly to your left and in front of you. You swing from right-to-left. He swing from his left-to-right (but it looks like right-to-left cuz he is facing you.) Even if he has a slower weapon he will you before you hit him, because you are closer to where he is swing his sword from. Your right-to-left swing will have to travel a longer distance (and therefore take more time) to hit him.
This is what is meant my footwork. Move to the side and swing the other way so your hit will connect faster. If they are on the side of you and swinging, don't take your shield down even if they just attacked you. You very well may get hit. Be mindful not just of the timing of the strikes, but where the enemy is located, which way you are facing, and which way you are swinging. Footwork.
Some ppl have very high athletics and very high wpf and a very fast weapon. It can be hard to out-maneuver these people but not impossible. You may have to block a few hits while you line up a shot.
Shielder can absolutely be an offensive class. I think its the best offensive class because you can wade directly into danger. Heavy and slower shields can work just fine. I used a steel shield for a while and noticed barely any difference in speed. Just be aware of your opponent spatially.
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I am a 1h + Shield, no matter what weapon I use everyone is swinging faster then me no matter wtf I do.. with weapons of speed 100+ they still swing alot faster then me.
Block a hit as soon as block hits I attack but they are already hitting me with their second swing this is just straight bullshit how are they so fast?
if it was just one person yeah ok, but 90% of the people I fight swing fast as hell.
The positive to using shields is they are easier to block various attacks (especially multiple attacks at same time) than parrying is (and of course shields are better vs arrows :) ). However, the negative to using shields is this speed factor, the shield slows you down (some more than others). It takes a moment to raise/lower your shield, as it should. In addition, there is a delay after a successful block before you can swing. This happens when someone parries too but it is a shorter delay on parries because the difficulty of parrying is higher than blocking with a shield. Same goes with a chamber - a chamber is the highest difficulty block but comes with the biggest reward in that it has the shortest delay before you can swing again. If that makes any sense.
Most new shielders complain about the same thing you are right now, but eventually they figure out the fine tuning and then get better - some get great. Honestly, as a 2h myself, a GOOD shielder can be one of the most dangerous opponents (imo). The very good shielders do not block as much with their shield, they use it as a reserve if they get in trouble, and they attack. 1h's when you aren't blocking with your shield are very fast, and the animations are harder to read than 2h's....so parrying them can be difficult at times. The length of certain swings (particularly left and stab) are deceivingly long, so as you learn your effective range you can start to utilize that.
Once you get positioning and timing and footwork down like these guys mention (things EVERYONE in crpg has to get good at), you can start being more offensive.
Hope this helps.
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Timing, positioning, facing, turning into swings.
That still does not explain how a 2h can hit twice to a 1h one strike.
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Stun. 2h weapons/poles weight more and can stun u easily.
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Stun. 2h weapons/poles weight more and can stun u easily.
He has a shield though. Still, it depends what shield your carrying. The only weapon that weapon stuns my Heavy round is a str build using a bar mace and holding attacks. Most weapons just aren't heavy enough to shield stun you.
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That still does not explain how a 2h can hit twice to a 1h one strike.
It does.
Timing - you have to be able to return attacks (or initiate them) with very precise timing. If you delay, someone will take advantage of it. You also need good timing to raise/lower your block in time.
Positioning - you have to be close enough to actually hit them without having to move forward - otherwise you are either running forward with a readied attack or swing at empty air and the enemy gets a free hit.
Facing - much more important for 1h/shield than it is for 2h or polearms. If you are not directly facing your enemy (or using the appropriate attack to him him anyway), your attack will land way too late and the enemy will be able to sneak a hit in, if they're going for spam.
Turning into swings - you just have to do this with any weapon to make your hits land earlier.
If you are good at all this, you can easily go on the offensive and even spam less confident 2hers/polearm users.
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When I started to play it was just like this for me too. Now everything is clear and ok.
The only thing you need to overcome this problem is practice.
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If you ever want to hit up duel server I'll show you a few tricks - and anybody else in there as well. You'll get the hang of it with practice. Its hard to articulate what you need to do with footwork and positioning, but which direction you choose to attack with is definitely important, and left swing will be your quickest attack.
If you're too focused on the act of attacking alone, you're losing track of them side stepping you, so you gotta refocus your camera when you get a chance to focus on or near the target. You'll find with practice that you actually have a great deal of time while people are planning their attack strategies in a duel.
One thing to look for - They'll attack first - you block - then you get a swing ready, they'll either:
1) Get a block ready. If they get a block ready, hold your swing - you have the upper hand and do not need to swing immediately. Hold it for a second or two. You then have a chance to get a good position and wait for a weak spot in their defense. If they only tapped their block, or blocked the wrong direction, then you release and get a free hit on them, not to mention there's a damage bonus for a held swing as opposed to a quick lash. If they held their block and successfully defended themselves, then neither of you are hurt, and you start over.
2) They might immediately go for a second swing. Its possible to outswing them if your timing was perfect, was a left swing, and you move slightly out of the direction of their swing. If you aren't confident in your swing though, cancel with a block immediately, and play safe. All you need to do to survive is hold your shield up in a 1 on 1 situation. Experiment with shield speeds too, as elite cavalry shields and heavy round shields will play much differently than a heavy board shield or huscarl.
In a heavy melee situation, you'll want to face forward and play safe, but when assisting a teammate or seperated from the pack and can afford to play offensively, your main objective is going to be to get around your enemy. If they do a right swing and you step left, you're essentially doubling his speed by walking into it - imagine a car in oncoming traffic. If you step to your right, or with his swing, and you did a left swing, you're negating his weapon speed, and increasing yours. Overheads and thrusts are tricky, but a 1 hand overhead is the biggest damage output and is still really quick, but harder to aim. Right swings are your best bet for getting the most out of your weapon's reach, especially if you've got a long weapon like an Arabian Cavalry Sword. When you get better at the game, you'll find yourself fighting near your weapon's max range, but don't focus on that too much yet.
Practice makes perfect - you'll get the hang of the game mechanics just by playing. Stick with it.
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What means "to chamber" ? :rolleyes:
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What means "to chamber" ? :rolleyes:
You use your attack animation to actually block their attack, and immediately swing afterwards.
Say you see somebody start an overhead swing - when they pull back their weapon and begin to swing, you would then do an overhead as well. The upward motion of your character starting the swing will block their attack. They call it a chamber, because pulling back your weapon to prepare for a swing is to "chamber your swing", or prepare for attack.
You can then follow through with an immediate attack that is very difficult to block, or with a fast enough weapon and the right timing, near impossible to block.
Practice with a friend to see how it works. You can chamber:
Thrust - with a Thrust or an Overhead
Overhead - with an Overhead
Rightswing (coming from your left) - with a right swing.
Leftswing (coming from your right) - with a left swing.
On the side chambers, whatever side their weapon is, you want your weapon on that side too.
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A succesfull chamber produce the "clong" sound ?
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You owe me 20k for this tutorial. ;)
1. as shielder you are not soppust to be offensive player
2. longer the weapon,the faster it is. if you see glaive for example it have 90 speed,but it have very big reach so if player go backwards he will always outspam you,and he will always be faster then you.
3. moust of 2h have 18/21 or 21/18 builds,so they have 6-7 or more athletics,so they move faster then you. You have shield that slows you down a lot.
4. shield speed plays big part in fighting,and weight of your gear. So you need to get any of knightly shields that have 100 or over speed,and use some lighter armors.
5. always be close to team,alone you are easy pray. You are support class,not some 2h hero/rambo.
6. pick longer weapons,or pick some of the picks (steel,military),but i would say knightly arming sword and nordic champ is only swords you need to use because they have pretty big reach.
7.avoid big clusterfucks because you have small reach and everyone will tw you a lot.
8. moust of 2h are spamming sluts so if you see that he is faster,turtle and move back to teammates.
9. moust of 2h will use kick,so don't go straight at them,be little in side to avoid that.
10. know where to move,and when to attack. don't follow ppl in fight with mob if you don't know who they are,becasue moust of ppl run away and let you die.
11. don't attack alone ppl with big polearms or with axes,or you are dead because they will smash ur shield and backpedal or spam you to death.
When you say 18/21 and 21/18 do you mean speed and agility
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strength/agility
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A succesfull chamber produce the "clong" sound ?
Yep.
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I remember feeling like this as well.
Here's the rub...
The shield slows you down a little and it is easy to read. If people are spamming you need to break it up with foot work. It's like any kind of hand to hand fighting you need to get the rhythm right, you need to find your opponents and break it.
Forget the weapons speed unless it's a maul it may as well say wizzlewozzel because in the hands of some one that understands it, it will be fast enough.
Once you go past the beginners curve (which no offense, we've all been there, you are on right now) sword and board becomes quiet exceptional.
First lesson is don't go head to head with people, attack on funny angles. Take on 2 people at once. It's not so great to duel with sword and board that's why you often see sword and board old hands throw the shield on their backs and go at with just the 1h when they get in a 1 v 1 situation. Shields help you battle groups because you can use the group against itself. That's where the shielder is strongest. An expert shielder can easily dispatch half a dozen players in a group by themselves without breaking a sweat.
There is a lot of great advice above this post, take it all in.
Here is a guide I read many moons ago. Not bad at all.
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,8020.0.html
One last tip. The left side of your opponent is his/her weak side. Exploit the fuck out of it. Get as close as possible and circle around them on that left side as fast as you can using left slashes to strike them, this alone will boost your KD.
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oh yeah i remember you, dude you were using 2 sheilds that increases your gear weight a lot, makes you atrociously slow no matter wpf or weapon speed.
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oh yeah i remember you, dude you were using 2 sheilds that increases your gear weight a lot, makes you atrociously slow no matter wpf or weapon speed.
Only slows down your movement speed.
Equipment (shields, weapons, arrows, bolts and throwing) only slows your movement.
Armour (head, body, hands and legs) slows your movement and reduces your wpf.
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and teammates with longspear
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Not sure how long you been playing but.... our little group has been on here 10 days or so. We had the same issues as to not understanding what was going on with people being able to out swing everything we tried. 2 things i can tell you..... 1) dont base your observations on and unfinished toon. We found out that as we got closer in lvl and skills it was abit easier. 2) Go to the duel servers ALOT, there are plenty of people that have helped us learn how to do things different and it helped alot. The more you duel and learn to block and move the easier it will get. Lots of nice folks on here that are willing to help out. (Thanks again to those that have already helped us out so much)
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Donate, and you'll notice a distinct improvement in your ability.