cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Sultan Eren on April 05, 2011, 01:19:53 pm
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Xbows
Require powerdraw instead of str.
Hunting 0
Light 0
Crossbow 1
Heavy Crossbow 2
Sniper 3
Archery
Less arrows in one bag. Reduced by 5.
Plate Buff
Arrow damage should be less and bolt damage should be more.
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Naw.
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Interesting that throwing is not mentioned, which most desperately needs a nerf in reach and damage.
Make xbows a bit harder to use without making them less powerful: yep. If PD is the best way to go can be discussed.
Less arrows: xbows already have more ammo than we do per bag, most archers sacrifice two weapon slots to have enough ammo, and I guess we agree that archery has had its butt kicked enough.
Plate buff: sorry but that's a joke. Already almost impossible to take down plated guys with arrows (you need several of them, even at high PD, and low-level archers already have their arrows bounce when they shoot turtles). In reality, at least the longbow could one-shot plated enemies at longer distance than most maps in c-rpg are long... would love to hear the whining of the turtles if we had realistic archery in c-rpg... ;-)
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The only nerf i think is reasonable are the 13 PD archers or whatever but else it's fine.
(limiting the PD, not nerfing all archers)
The amount of arrows already got reduced last patch.
..hell.. i use melee weapon+bow and 2 slots of bodkin arrows.
I must kinda each run sneak around and collect arrows from the ground like some thrower..
BTW:
Buy a shield.
Invest 3 points and you are like jesus against ranged.
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A nerf to archery is impossible, it would cause to much whine from the large base of archers. I say dont nerf archery but tweak armor a bit.
I find it funny that i have a full steel helmet yet the arrows dont glance off but one shot me. Kinda makes the helmet useless.
Should just go a lighter one and save speed/money.
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Interesting that throwing is not mentioned, which most desperately needs a nerf in reach and damage.
That´s true.
Archery is hard enough to use ...
If you don´t like them :
1. take a shield
2. go to them and hit them hard.
Edit : Fluffy_Muffin is a little bit right too. A steel helmet should protect you , from most arrows, that are shot from the "beginner bows" ( hunting and short bow ). But a war bow/long Bow should get through too , cause real war bows penetrate plate !
Watch This : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2lbB3OMNns&feature=related ( Were a plate armor is penetrated from arrow )
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I find it funny that i have a full steel helmet yet the arrows dont glance off but one shot me.
Good point. Strong bows and appropriate arrows could indeed penetrate an inch of metal and most helmets are vulnerable in the front for obvious reasons, but a certain rate of bouncing / glancing off depending on hit angle etc. would be natural.
Unfortunately I have the feeling that the M&B engine with its stupid hitboxes - opposite to some modern warfare simulations - will not be able to deliver that level of realism.
But anyways: protection with plate armor seems to be ok right now - even with PD10 and Bodkins a decent turtle survives more than 2 arrows from me and falls with the 3rd or 4th, in case I get the chance to hit them so often...
And by the way: with decent shield skill even a little steel buckler makes you almost immune to arrows and you can't shoot around it. Highly unrealistic, but nobody, incl. archers, has cried for a shield nerf so far...
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And by the way: with decent shield skill even a little steel buckler makes you almost immune to arrows and you can't shoot around it. Highly unrealistic, but nobody, incl. archers, has cried for a shield nerf so far...
That´s true. I have tested it with my 1h build. The buckler gets absolute no damage from arrows, and catch arrows out of the air , which should hit me. So don´t whine about archers .... get a shield ! ;-)
One thing by the way .... even if you are a 2 hand build .... get a shield , go to the archer , wait till he hits your shield , drop shield , change weapon and kill. So you don´t have the weight of the shield.
( Why do i say such things ? I play an archer too ! ^^ )
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But a war bow/long Bow should get through too , cause real war bows penetrate plate !
Watch This : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2lbB3OMNns&feature=related ( Were a plate armor is penetrated from arrow )
Why do you support your argument with a vid that shows an arrow not piercing plate, but poking a tiny hole in it not even big enough for the entire arrow to go through? You think plate is worn on bare skin? On top of that, the guy shooting the arrow could've done it from 10 yards away.
I now present my "evidence" that arrows did not pierce plate armour (look closely, you'll see em bounce off):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCywaYlQxWE&feature=related
In reality, at least the longbow could one-shot plated enemies at longer distance than most maps in c-rpg are long... would love to hear the whining of the turtles if we had realistic archery in c-rpg... ;-)
Yeah and katana can cut through plate armour too. Ninja are invisible and you shouldn't sail the seas to their end, cuz there be dragons and stuff.
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Yeah and katana can cut through plate armour too. Ninja are invisible and you shouldn't sail the seas to their end, cuz there be dragons and stuff.
read a bit about archery in the history of the real world, then come back to troll if you like.
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Hirlok maybe you should spent less time reading your "history" books and do some testing or find people that did the testing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3997HZuWjk
That's just one of many videos that will show you how effective longbow was against plate.
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Hirlok maybe you should spent less time reading your "history" books and do some testing or find people that did the testing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3997HZuWjk
That's just one of many videos that will show you how effective longbow was against plate.
Why would you put quotations around the word history?
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A nerf to archery is impossible, it would cause to much whine from the large base of archers. I say dont nerf archery but tweak armor a bit.
I find it funny that i have a full steel helmet yet the arrows dont glance off but one shot me. Kinda makes the helmet useless.
Should just go a lighter one and save speed/money.
In my plateish helmet i take headshots every now and then, its rather rare for an archer to oneshot me even with a headshot tbh.
@OP: Lol
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This has to be a troll thread
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Why would you put quotations around the word history?
...because a Youtube clippppp of some semi-scientific "test" for the LULZ-generation has def more weight ;-)
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...because a Youtube clippppp of some semi-scientific "test" for the LULZ-generation has def more weight ;-)
Has more weight than a shitty history book with for all we know no proof whatsoever. Also this game is about BALANCE not historical accuracy for fuck sake, if you want historical accuracy go do some LARP shit.
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If you have a problem with archers even without a shield then you just need to l2p. Some people just never learn :(
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Why would you put quotations around the word history?
Because I don't believe a proper history source would feed you that kind of crap.
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Because I don't believe a proper history source would feed you that kind of crap.
Because plate armor is completely invulnerable against arrow fire? No. Pick up a book, I personally recommend something about the Hundred Years' War or Why the English Had Such an Early Advantage Against Bumblefuck Tincan Cavalry
One can't argue for historical accuracies in this game because there is no set time-line, or historical model for that matter, to follow. While bows played a pivotal role in a great deal of medieval combat, eventually blacksmiths were able to discover formulas to make plate armor very resistant, as seen in the video Nemeth posted. Times change, equipment changes.
Ultimately it all comes down to reference. Could the bow pierce plate armor? Up to a certain era of time, yes; but as times and technology advanced, armor was made very powerful while the construction of the bow remained pretty much the same. It's what led to the discontinued use of the bow and the invention of guns and other pretty things that were capable of rending steel and flesh alike, while sometimes meshing the two materials into a very fun slurry.
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Because I don't believe a proper history source would feed you that kind of crap.
there is nothing like the bliss of ignorance and "belief". Go be happy with it.
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Anyway. I DON'T agree with making PD requirement for xbows, unless we are going to get a buff due to higher PD... then yes... but otherwise, GTFO.
WPF repair scalling is hundreds times better.
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there is nothing like the bliss of ignorance and "belief". Go be happy with it.
You are the one claiming that "In reality, at least the longbow could one-shot plated enemies at longer distance than most maps in c-rpg are long".
Just so you know, the speed and thus power of the arrow was lower with distance. That's physics. While longbows could penetrate plate at shorter range, the idea that they were one shotting plated knights 200-300 yards away from them is just ignorance on your part.
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Yes to xbows needing skill contribution- then lower damage a little bit (-2 to 3 pierce maybe). Then make pd give them plus dmg like archery.
No to arrows thing and no to plate.
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The only nerf i think is reasonable are the 13 PD archers or whatever but else it's fine.
(limiting the PD, not nerfing all archers)
How many of them are there?
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That´s true. I have tested it with my 1h build. The buckler gets absolute no damage from arrows, and catch arrows out of the air , which should hit me. So don´t whine about archers .... get a shield ! ;-)
One thing by the way .... even if you are a 2 hand build .... get a shield , go to the archer , wait till he hits your shield , drop shield , change weapon and kill. So you don´t have the weight of the shield.
( Why do i say such things ? I play an archer too ! ^^ )
Na, it is not.
Sometimes you can catch a few arrows, but mot of the time you got hit (well, if they know how to aim).
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You are the one claiming that "In reality, at least the longbow could one-shot plated enemies at longer distance than most maps in c-rpg are long".
Just so you know, the speed and thus power of the arrow was lower with distance. That's physics. While longbows could penetrate plate at shorter range, the idea that they were one shotting plated knights 200-300 yards away from them is just ignorance on your part.
+1 for this one.
Longbows were a force to be reckoned with... even against plate. Nemeth's link is a valid test... however, just to play devil's advocate, there is the question of how high quality the steel was in the test. A suit of armor is useless if the steel is of poor quality. Most modern day replicas of 16th and 17th tools of war are far inferior to the originals.
That said, an English longbow could have a draw power of 200 pounds. With that much power going behind a single arrow tip, you bet your ass it could pierce plate at close range.
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I'd like to know one thing, who said Knights = the definition of being fully plated?
Alot of knights still used mail with maybe some plate plates here and there, so you guys have to take into account that the knights killed by archery most likely wore mail, and not plate.
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You are the one claiming that "In reality, at least the longbow could one-shot plated enemies at longer distance than most maps in c-rpg are long".
Just so you know, the speed and thus power of the arrow was lower with distance. That's physics. While longbows could penetrate plate at shorter range, the idea that they were one shotting plated knights 200-300 yards away from them is just ignorance on your part.
What's that physics thingie that an arrow coming down gains speed... You know something like gravity or something I remember from kindergarden :twisted:
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This is already in afaik, shooting down from tower does more damage than shooting up.
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What's that physics thingie that an arrow coming down gains speed... You know something like gravity or something I remember from kindergarden :twisted:
Yes it gains speed but its still not like the power it gets from the release
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What's that physics thingie that an arrow coming down gains speed... You know something like gravity or something I remember from kindergarden :twisted:
terminal velocity, look it up
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Yes it gains speed but its still not like the power it gets from the release
Which goes down like a cows tail in few meters...
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To go down, it should go up, and gravity make that it loose speed...