cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: RichBaby on April 04, 2011, 06:51:43 pm

Title: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: RichBaby on April 04, 2011, 06:51:43 pm
Can somebody tell me please? By good I mean can kill Tommy and Oberyn all the time, as opposed to picking up easy kills (though which I think is the true job for cav). :D
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Armpit_Sweat on April 04, 2011, 06:54:51 pm
Couch a Heavy Lance or use Jarids.

EDIT:
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Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on April 04, 2011, 06:58:25 pm
Being aware of your own limits for starters.

Try and kill the ones who are unaware, and avoid getting into massive groups of enemies who will mob and slow you down. If there is a particularly troublesome opponent, do not be one of the many stupid cav players out there and keep circling him to try and kill him, and instead just run off (Speed is an advantage, so always use it) and go kill some other player.

Playing a slow ring-around-the-rosie of a single opponent when there are a few dozen remaining enemies is a sin too many cav commit.

If there are a half dozen team mates mobbing a single guy, do not be a prick and run into them to try and add one more kill to your count. Learn how to play smart and do a well timed cav bump to the enemy for your team mates to exploit while he is getting up from the ground, and learn to not run over your own team mates.

Being greedy as an infantry hurts team mates, being greedy as a cav kills them.

A great example would be BlueGreen who is one of the best armored cav players I have seen on any server. Never allows himself to be stuck, never slows down, always moves to new places, and knows when to switch weapons or avoid people with pikes.
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: RichBaby on April 04, 2011, 07:03:01 pm
Being aware of your own limits for starters.

Try and kill the ones who are unaware, and avoid getting into massive groups of enemies who will mob and slow you down. If there is a particularly troublesome opponent, do not be one of the many stupid cav players out there and keep circling him to try and kill him, and instead just run off (Speed is an advantage, so always use it) and go kill some other player.

Playing a slow ring-around-the-rosie of a single opponent when there are a few dozen remaining enemies is a sin too many cav commit.

If there are a half dozen team mates mobbing a single guy, do not be a prick and run into them to try and add one more kill to your count. Learn how to play smart and do a well timed cav bump to the enemy for your team mates to exploit while he is getting up from the ground, and learn to not run over your own team mates.

Being greedy as an infantry hurts team mates, being greedy as a cav kills them.

A great example would be BlueGreen who is one of the best armored cav players I have seen on any server. Never allows himself to be stuck, never slows down, always moves to new places, and knows when to switch weapons or avoid people with pikes.

Thanks for this Tears! Found really helpful. I am now playing on EU1, you? I know Bluegreen well, he is a nice guy.
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Phazey on April 04, 2011, 07:07:29 pm
Can somebody tell me please? By good I mean can kill Tommy and Oberyn all the time, as opposed to picking up easy kills

Sound like you want to be a cav that's good against other cav? A heavy lance and polearm skill is really nice against other cav. Practice on the duel server with some other cav friend to get the timing and subtleties right.

Use a maneuverable horse like the sarranid or steppe horse. Consider going throwing + horse archery, it's a great cav-vs-cav build. Go for maximum riding skill always.

A nice trick i use a lot is to body-block their horse with yours, forcing them to stop. Combined with a maneuverable horse and high riding skill, you should be able to get behind them and slash or stab them once or twice before they can escape you. Risky move though, if they are on to you they'll just aim for your horse instead of you.

Edit: one more important tip for cav versus cav: always try to move in front of other cav. Never cut in behind, always cut along their front. Server latency and mechanics seem to favor the guy that swings or stabs really early and aims slightly ahead of where they are displayed on your screen. 
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on April 04, 2011, 07:09:15 pm
Thanks for this Tears! Found really helpful. I am now playing on EU1, you? I know Bluegreen well, he is a nice guy.

I usually alternate between NA and EU servers. Right now I am actually not at my computer, and just running some code and fixing a few things.

I will remember to keep an eye out for you out of curiosity, best of luck, I hope you enjoy being a cav!

Oh, and great advice from Phazey.
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: RichBaby on April 04, 2011, 07:10:10 pm
Couch a Heavy Lance or use Jarids.

EDIT:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

like your pic :P
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Oberyn on April 04, 2011, 07:11:21 pm
Meh, you've killed me enough times to know by now :P.
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Zisa on April 04, 2011, 07:14:38 pm
If you can find a native server that is not a ghost town, get on it, go Rhodok or Nord vs Khergit or Swads, take a light lance and prepare to be the lone cav vs a horde.
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on April 04, 2011, 07:17:05 pm
I consider you  a pretty decent cav
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Furax on April 04, 2011, 07:22:23 pm
Its ALL about the timing of your lancing and placement of horse. Keep your horses head safe whilst not sacrificing range of your own lance to get the other guys horse, it does not take long to become proficient at it. Also run away from all HA's like its the devil himself coming to eat your eyeballs.
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Zisa on April 04, 2011, 09:10:49 pm
Rich is pretty good.
Just want to stress .. avoid bumping friendlies like the plague. Melees tend to get antsy and may swing before seeing the flag over a horseman's head after the tenth 'friendly' bump.
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Christo on April 04, 2011, 09:26:20 pm
Stop going Road Rage on your teammates. It's not funny.
Especially when you kill them/knock them down so they die from an enemy.
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Miralay on April 04, 2011, 09:33:08 pm
Knowing your role on battlefield is the key for being for a good cav player..

Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Daergar on April 04, 2011, 09:56:39 pm
Just some random tips.

As stated, aim and thrust your lance earlier than you think you should (practice is a must). Veer your horse away as you strike, or right after, with the goal of avoiding his lance while planting yours in the face. Sounds simple, is rather simple, works like a charm.

Which is why you often see two good cav players doing circles, meeting at the apex and trying to land a hit while both veer away.

When striking infantry, make sure you land the hit with the lance almost fully extended, to gain the maximum of the speed bonus. If they do a downward block or raised shield, simply run over them. Try the next pass with your 1her out, sometimes people still block and then you can bump and slice them instead of simply running them down.
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on April 04, 2011, 10:18:44 pm
As others have said, be careful with your bumps.

Know your targets. Kill archers and any infantry armed with weapons shorter than your (probably) heavy lance. The safest of targets are shielders, who are unable to defend themselves. If they try to block your thrust, you can bump them. If they try to attack your horse, you can thrust them (or just bump them). Stay away from ranged cavalry, throwers, or people with long, pointy weapons.

Use your weapon to its fullest potential. The heavy lance is really long; always try to attack using the weapon at its maximum range, whereby risk of damage to yourself or your horse is minimized. Try to avoid charging head-onwards towards any targets, whether they be enemy cavalry or infantry.

For killing cavalry: go for their horses. The horses head sticks out like a large, easily poked target, as does its rump. Don't be afraid to slow down in order to maneuver around your opponent, and always keep in mind the limits of your lance.

Final tip: slow-speed maneuverability is your friend. I love nothing more than engaging a large clump of infantry and prancing in circles around them, staying just out of range, but (as Daergar sort of described) attacking while I veer just out of range. Get familiar with the veer-thrust movement, whereby you slow down and turn left (or right) while stabbing in such a way that you get maximum reach.
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on April 04, 2011, 10:26:00 pm
start doing joga and meditation, before any m&b session, also play some ambient waterfall in the background and turn off game sounds

it helps! ;]
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Christo on April 04, 2011, 10:27:16 pm
Indeed. Hunt down ranged while flanking.
It's your top priority.

Also, if you enjoy assassination, like I did in my Cav days, try to take out the top players of the Enemy team, or Horse Archers.
Your team will love your for this, as you drastically increase chances of a victoire.

Do as much damage as you can. Couch into shielders for fun, and to weaken their Huscarl shields, it will hurt them heavily, and your mates can open them persistent facehuggers much faster.

For cav vs cav, do what everyone said, turn, turn, turn. Learn your effective speed, manouvering ability is a must. Always, I mean ALWAYS slow down when you turn around, it will take less time, and can give you the finishing blow against an enemy horseman who just pressed W+A/D like an idiot. Learn the range of your lance, obviously. Practice releasing before you meet the target, you will feel when to do after some time, I can assure you. Don't be afraid of Couching: It is your trump card, use it wisely.

Don't be afraid of straight charges either! Sometimes, it can shake the enemy, and for once, you fought well, with glory and courage, to strike into a wall of ranged, and pole weapons. The risk is high, though, but if you manage to kill an MvP while you do it, it was well worth it.

Also, learn how to annoy the enemy cavalry, when they pursue you. I managed to annoy 10 enemy cav for 5 minutes in native, they weren't able to catch me, I just had to circle around them, and use their predictable movements against them. It's so much fun, I always enjoyed being chased.  :wink:
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Akryn on April 04, 2011, 10:46:58 pm
If this is RichBaby_(lots of 0s), you have to be trolling. You are one of best horsemen I see playing. You are an inspiration to those who suck at being cav (just me). No asslicking intended.

Thanks Christo,Phazey, Daergar, KaMiKaZe_JoE & Tears_of_Destiny for the tips as well though, even if they aren't directed to me they will surely help!
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Kryser on April 04, 2011, 11:00:08 pm
I love when people try and chase my champ courser, just to the point when i switch to a sword and rear my horse on purpose in the middle of a field, watch them pass...... with a now dead horse because they didn't expect the unexpected.
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Joxer on April 04, 2011, 11:01:03 pm
Go die in a fire. That's a good cav  :twisted:
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Kafein on April 04, 2011, 11:34:59 pm
Why are so many cav kind of obsessed with lances and pointy things ?

Right know I would estimate the melee cav population like this :
80% of lancers with over-maneuvrable horses like the sarranid
15% of traditional bump-slashers (just like Bluegreen mentioned above) with more charge-oriented horses
5% of lowlevels/trolls

And the goal of many horsemen on the battlefield seems to be to kill enemy cav. That's the worst thing you can do as a cav. In most cases, cav duels are extremely risky, just for one enemy cav down. Don't loose your time and risk your life duelling with other cav, the thing you are good at is poking archers and unaware infantry in general. As a cav, you should consider yourself precious and allways try to survive as long as possible. You will likely have much more opportunities to land a cheap kill than any other class so the longer you live, the better you do.

Killing other cavs with 1h works very well too, just block the enemy horse and swing. An important thing to note is that hunting HA's (something you should normally avoid at all costs) goes much easier with slashing weapons on horse (and you need the overhead slash for those moments when the opponent is right in front of you).
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: RichBaby on April 04, 2011, 11:43:12 pm
Sound like you want to be a cav that's good against other cav? A heavy lance and polearm skill is really nice against other cav. Practice on the duel server with some other cav friend to get the timing and subtleties right.

Use a maneuverable horse like the sarranid or steppe horse. Consider going throwing + horse archery, it's a great cav-vs-cav build. Go for maximum riding skill always.

A nice trick i use a lot is to body-block their horse with yours, forcing them to stop. Combined with a maneuverable horse and high riding skill, you should be able to get behind them and slash or stab them once or twice before they can escape you. Risky move though, if they are on to you they'll just aim for your horse instead of you.

Edit: one more important tip for cav versus cav: always try to move in front of other cav. Never cut in behind, always cut along their front. Server latency and mechanics seem to favor the guy that swings or stabs really early and aims slightly ahead of where they are displayed on your screen.

Thanks Phazey. Really helpful detailed advice!
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Zisa on April 05, 2011, 12:20:31 am
Why are so many cav kind of obsessed with lances and pointy things ?

Right know I would estimate the melee cav population like this :
80% of lancers with over-maneuvrable horses like the sarranid
15% of traditional bump-slashers (just like Bluegreen mentioned above) with more charge-oriented horses
5% of lowlevels/trolls

And the goal of many horsemen on the battlefield seems to be to kill enemy cav. That's the worst thing you can do as a cav. In most cases, cav duels are extremely risky, just for one enemy cav down. Don't loose your time and risk your life duelling with other cav, the thing you are good at is poking archers and unaware infantry in general. As a cav, you should consider yourself precious and allways try to survive as long as possible. You will likely have much more opportunities to land a cheap kill than any other class so the longer you live, the better you do.

Killing other cavs with 1h works very well too, just block the enemy horse and swing. An important thing to note is that hunting HA's (something you should normally avoid at all costs) goes much easier with slashing weapons on horse (and you need the overhead slash for those moments when the opponent is right in front of you).
Sorry, the most fun as cav is.. lancer vs lancer. I tend to get bored when there is no enemy cav left.
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: RichBaby on April 05, 2011, 12:22:28 am
Meh, you've killed me enough times to know by now :P.

I should have asked earlier, but just figured out how to register today..

I admit that you are the first to inspire me to be a Cav, nice lancing just like sending a billiard ball to its hole, I adore you.

Then I saw Templar_Tommy who often had 30-40 kills every round, very stable.

I also saw vernadian made 50+ kills the highest record I've ever seen.

So think cannot call myself a good cav unless can kill you guys most of the time...em..I know, maybe mission impossible!

Oberyn, if you know any trick to kill an infantry pointing heavy lance at you, do please let me know  :P
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: RichBaby on April 05, 2011, 12:27:31 am
I consider you  a pretty decent cav

Thank you, though any pikeman can easily kill me.
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: RichBaby on April 05, 2011, 12:30:38 am
Rich is pretty good.
Just want to stress .. avoid bumping friendlies like the plague. Melees tend to get antsy and may swing before seeing the flag over a horseman's head after the tenth 'friendly' bump.

I trust I have not done so often, and I want to say the similar thing to friendly archers. Sometimes they don't bother to stop shooting at an enemy surrounding by teammates.
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Gnjus on April 05, 2011, 12:34:41 am
I admit that you are the first to inspire me to be a Cav, nice lancing just like sending a billiard ball to its hole, I adore you.

Then I saw Templar_Tommy who often had 30-40 kills every round, very stable.

I also saw vernadian made 50+ kills the highest record I've ever seen.

So think cannot call myself a good cav unless can kill you guys most of the time...em..I know, maybe mission impossible!

Oberyn, if you know any trick to kill an infantry pointing heavy lance at you, do please let me know  :P

Sorry to disappoint you mate but it's not that hard to be a "good" cavalry guy, all you need to do is hunt down all those unaware/blind fools that just go straightforward and.....die........you backstabb 'em and they.....die.....their life sucks and then they just....die..........
As for the Tommy/Oberyn/Ujin......give 'em a half-decent opponent (one who is not blind/stupid/incompetent/unaware) and they just......die..........    :rolleyes:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on April 05, 2011, 12:39:35 am
With all due respect if you attack a guy face on and repeatedly do it as a cav, then you are a blooming thrice damned idiot.

In a straight fight a cav player is at a disadvatage due to that ugly massive clumsy horse that can actually get in the own rider's way. At least BlueGreen can defend himself when dismounted and still get kills.

Gnjus, there is a difference between an effective cav player, and a "skilled" one who is macho and does nothing but forward attacks and gets his horse cut down from him due to any sane 2Her outreaching him with a stab, or a Piker saying "shove it" and stopping the horse, or even a 1hander doing a jack-in-the-box jump and slicing off the head of the horse.

Stick with playing your 2Her with crushthrough (Because god knows your wooden hammer needs massive amounts of skill) and be a dear and stop diving into cavalry threads.
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: RichBaby on April 05, 2011, 12:46:47 am
Server latency and mechanics seem to favor the guy that swings or stabs really early and aims slightly ahead of where they are displayed on your screen.

Phazey, you have pointed out one thing I ve always found odd. This explains why sometimes I expected to be killed but got kills instead..
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: RichBaby on April 05, 2011, 12:51:02 am
If this is RichBaby_(lots of 0s), you have to be trolling. You are one of best horsemen I see playing. You are an inspiration to those who suck at being cav (just me). No asslicking intended.

Thanks Christo,Phazey, Daergar, KaMiKaZe_JoE & Tears_of_Destiny for the tips as well though, even if they aren't directed to me they will surely help!

Hi Akryn, my pleasure to inspire someone. I do play quite shit sometimes, especially when my gf calls in and have to stay on line for hours and play without sound.

As a reasonably veteran cav, I still feel hopeless when killed by a peasant holding a pitchfork which happens a lot...
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Gnjus on April 05, 2011, 12:54:26 am
With all due respect if you attack a guy face on and repeatedly do it as a cav, then you are a blooming thrice damned idiot.

In a straight fight a cav player is at a disadvatage due to that ugly massive clumsy horse that can actually get in the own rider's way. At least BlueGreen can defend himself when dismounted and still get kills.

Gnjus, there is a difference between an effective cav player, and a "skilled" one who is macho and does nothing but forward attacks and gets his horse cut down from him due to any sane 2Her outreaching him with a stab, or a Piker saying "shove it" and stopping the horse, or even a 1hander doing a jack-in-the-box jump and slicing off the head of the horse.

Stick with playing your 2Her with crushthrough (Because god knows your wooden hammer needs massive amounts of skill) and be a dear and stop diving into cavalry threads.

I never doubted for one second that a dedicated archer could comprehend my post.....i never said cavalry should charge into the pikes that await for em.....nor did i say they should charge the lolstabbers......all i said is that when you see Tommy/Ujin/Oberyn get scores like 50-60/2-3 its all down to the incompetent opponents, rather then their own "uber-OP-skill".....just ask them and they will confirm it. When they face some able (or at least half-able) opposition they dont get very far.......and they know it very well.  :)

As for my 2hander with "godly" crushthrough" (that needs some skill)...that is exactly where i was waiting for you....when i played a shielder you called me a noob who cant manual block, now when i play a 2hander (and having a slow/short mallet requires some manual blocking skill) you still call me a noob (using an OP/no skill required weapon)......and all that coming from a guy who plays a class which requires the most biggest amount of skill = a dedicated archer ? Youre having a laugh.......   :)

And yes...i played a cavalry...a lot in native, somewhat less in cRPG but yeah, i played it.
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: RichBaby on April 05, 2011, 12:57:37 am
Sorry to disappoint you mate but it's not that hard to be a "good" cavalry guy, all you need to do is hunt down all those unaware/blind fools that just go straightforward and.....die........you backstabb 'em and they.....die.....their life sucks and then they just....die..........
As for the Tommy/Oberyn/Ujin......give 'em a half-decent opponent (one who is not blind/stupid/incompetent/unaware) and they just......die..........    :rolleyes:

(click to show/hide)

I appreciate your comment. I did say 'not picking up easy kills' so I will strive to be one of ' half-decent opponent'. :P

Also, your existence has made me give up my will to be a 2 hander。。
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Casimir on April 05, 2011, 01:04:29 am
I dont thonk its fair to say that those guys completly fail when fighting aware people. Cav Vs Cav fights require very good timing so its not like they are complete skillless noobs as your somewhat rejective post suggest my old friend  :lol:
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Gnjus on April 05, 2011, 01:27:25 am
I dont thonk its fair to say that those guys completly fail when fighting aware people. Cav Vs Cav fights require very good timing so its not like they are complete skillless noobs as your somewhat rejective post suggest my old friend  :lol:

No, no, no....i never said all these guys were bad.....skilless noobs, etc.......and im not being rejective to them...but we are talking about these insane 50-60/3-4 scores.....i played cavalry and i know how hard it is to beat em....but you cant deny that most of their scores is based on other people's unawareness (something that i never had the nerves for...just waiting/stalking and backstabbing poor blind people, ive done it on a few occasions and it worked perfectly but mostly i just charged and died :--)).....some like to call it "skill of the cavalry who can catch all these blind/unaware people.....but i prefer calling it "taking advantage of the fact that all these opponents are so frigging blind/useless/whatever".....also, you cant deny that most of em are skilled even without their horses (Oberyn, Ujin, Tommy, etc).....with a few exceptions (Bluegreen, and a few more names i wont mention cause i dont want to "insult" them)  :wink:
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on April 05, 2011, 01:27:36 am
I never doubted for one second that a dedicated archer could comprehend my post.....i never said cavalry should charge into the pikes that await for em.....nor did i say they should charge the lolstabbers......all i said is that when you see Tommy/Ujin/Oberyn get scores like 50-60/2-3 its all down to the incompetent opponents, rather then their own "uber-OP-skill".....just ask them and they will confirm it. When they face some able (or at least half-able) opposition they dont get very far.......and they know it very well.  :)

As for my 2hander with "godly" crushthrough" (that needs some skill)...that is exactly where i was waiting for you....when i played a shielder you called me a noob who cant manual block, now when i play a 2hander (and having a slow/short mallet requires some manual blocking skill) you still call me a noob (using an OP/no skill required weapon)......and all that coming from a guy who plays a class which requires the most biggest amount of skill = a dedicated archer ? Youre having a laugh.......   :)

And yes...i played a cavalry...a lot in native, somewhat less in cRPG but yeah, i played it.

Wait now darling, where did I say that you were a n00b? I never recall complaining about your shield skills either, though I do remember being in that particular thread, it was someone else who complained about that. I don't think crush through is godly either, mainly just the barmace needs a small nerf.

As for archers requiring the most amount of skill, that is simply foolish (And I dare you to find a single post of mine that claims that statement is true). It does require skill to lead targets and account for speed and target priority and distance, but I think melee takes a great deal more work considering in archery there is no footwork, while in melee there is.

I understand your intense hatred of archers (And considering how much your clan gets shot at, I do not blame you, even if it is also amusing at times to watch), but it is really silly to drag that into a thread where it has nothing to do with it. How does me playing an archer have any correlation with my argument or your argument or this thread, considering I do not recall mentioning it once. Would it please your heart if I were to inform you that I spend much more time playing melee then as a range character? I doubt it...

Shush now, be a dear, and go back to playing where you can inform the entire world how much you hate archers. Everyone in the forums knows by now this, but there are still new players on the servers that do not read the forums, and need your kind and caring words. Run along now, play nice!

No, no, no....i never said all these guys were bad.....skilless noobs, etc.......and im not being rejective to them...also, you cant deny that most of em are skilled even without their horses (Oberyn, Ujin, Tommy, etc)...

Really?

As for the Tommy/Oberyn/Ujin......give 'em a half-decent opponent (one who is not blind/stupid/incompetent/unaware) and they just......die..........    :rolleyes:

You have a marvelously unique way of putting that they are skilled. Simply fascinating.
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Gnjus on April 05, 2011, 01:36:49 am
Run along now, play nice!

Sorry mate but i think that running kinda suits YOU much more then it suits myself. You have vast experience with it(taking into account the class you play with such passion and dedication) so....feel free to hit the road Jack.  :wink:

(click to show/hide)



You have a marvelously unique way of putting that they are skilled. Simply fascinating.

They are....
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on April 05, 2011, 04:53:27 am
SHAME, IT WAS LOOKING LIKE A GOOD THREAD FOR A WHILE THERE.

Anyway, does anyone else like fighting on the front lines next to infantry, exactly as infantry normally do, except on horseback? I find it entertaining to ride on up to the melee, and if there's room (don't even need flat terrain) go to down with my heavy lance. It requires alot of maneuverability, awareness, and timing; the horse must constantly be moving, mostly parallel to the enemy peoples. You also need to avoid hitting/bumping teammates.

Still I think its uber fun, and REALLY distracting to enemy infantry. They see a horse that isn't galloping away at full speed and they think "OH GOD KILL IT KILL IT!", only to see said horsie prance just out of reach, and its rider poke a bitch.

Another tip on "how to be a good cav". If you're really low on money, have a rouncey, and feel like being annoying I suggest the following: Naked horse bump the enemy team to death. Don't just rush into them all KaMiKaZe like, but gallop around looking for unwary people. The best situations involve the enemy forming a generally straight line, which generally happens when they are facing an opposing line of your team's infantry. In this case, simply gallop at full speed down the enemy line and trample half their team into the dust. Your team may then lunge in and pwn the knocked down baddies.

It's hilarious, and the "thunk" sound makes me giggle.

Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Tomas_of_Miles on April 05, 2011, 07:48:53 am
I consider you  a pretty decent cav
+1 keep doing what you are doing, as much as it pains me...
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Vibe on April 05, 2011, 08:37:12 am
I do play quite shit sometimes, especially when my gf calls in and have to stay on line for hours and play without sound.

I feel you there, bro.

As a reasonably veteran cav, I still feel hopeless when killed by a peasant holding a pitchfork which happens a lot...

I've seen you play and you're quite good. Quite frankly, a horse lancer's job is to go for easy kills. If you spend your time dueling other horsemen you are wasting your time, because it's the horse archers/archers job to kill the horsemen. I usually just run away from duels and go back to killing unawares.
As for actually dueling horse lancers... it's all in timing/ping. It just takes time and practice. You're good and you shouldn't have much trouble picking it up, if you ask me. Still I would keep away from dueling horse lancers. Your potential is wasted in there, you should really really focus on lancing infantry and unaware archers.
Also, never go head on against a guy on foot with a polearm, be it pitchfork or a pike. It's really easy to kill a horse lancer with pretty much any polearm, so you're better just running off to the next "easy kill".
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Kophka on April 05, 2011, 08:58:52 am
I've seen you play and you're quite good. Quite frankly, a horse lancer's job is to go for easy kills. If you spend your time dueling other horsemen you are wasting your time, because it's the horse archers/archers job to kill the horsemen. I usually just run away from duels and go back to killing unawares.
As for actually dueling horse lancers... it's all in timing/ping. It just takes time and practice. You're good and you shouldn't have much trouble picking it up, if you ask me. Still I would keep away from dueling horse lancers. Your potential is wasted in there, you should really really focus on lancing infantry and unaware archers.
Also, never go head on against a guy on foot with a polearm, be it pitchfork or a pike. It's really easy to kill a horse lancer with pretty much any polearm, so you're better just running off to the next "easy kill".

Not picking on you, but here in NA, it's all about the cav on cav fights, when you get them together. It started out as each team trying to protect their stragglers and afks from the enemy cavalry, and evolved to "take those bastards down, so they leave us alone". The trend lately has been to laugh at cavalry "padding" their K:D ratios by chasing afks, and giving the most respect to those that can bust up an enemy formation without going down while simultaneously keeping enemy cav from doing the same. We're actually seeing organized cav movements such as wedges, group flanks, and close-in ride behinds to turn enemy ranged around and expose them to the fire they should have been watching in the front.

The best advice I can give you on becoming a good cavalry-man is to : A) Pick your weapon and stick with it. I use a light lance, and can take more inexperienced heavy lance users head on solely because I'm more used to the timing of my lance then they are of theirs. Once you know your gear, you'll constantly improve if you don't change it up. and B) Don't worry about your K:D. Doesn't matter, the multiplier does. You can do as much good without ever sinking a lance into someone, if you disrupt the enemies movements and harass their flanks ( a traditional role for light cav, which since polearms trump even plated chargers, we all really are). Glad you're enjoying the class, hope you stick with it. :D
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Vibe on April 05, 2011, 09:19:29 am
Not picking on you, but here in NA, it's all about the cav on cav fights, when you get them together. It started out as each team trying to protect their stragglers and afks from the enemy cavalry, and evolved to "take those bastards down, so they leave us alone". The trend lately has been to laugh at cavalry "padding" their K:D ratios by chasing afks, and giving the most respect to those that can bust up an enemy formation without going down while simultaneously keeping enemy cav from doing the same. We're actually seeing organized cav movements such as wedges, group flanks, and close-in ride behinds to turn enemy ranged around and expose them to the fire they should have been watching in the front.

In Europe, we ride for kills, not advance tactics.
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on April 05, 2011, 10:17:52 am
I love it when cav charges me head on when i have my lolstab chambered (ummm fresh meat)
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Furax on April 05, 2011, 10:36:31 am
I love it when cav charges me head on when i have my lolstab chambered (ummm fresh meat)

Funny, thats what I think as cav when seeing someone with a chambered lolstab aimed at me. I still fail quite alot against it, but they usually end up pierced.
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: La Makina on April 05, 2011, 10:53:09 am
When I used to play Native, I was good at killing cavalry. I was even good enough to hunt them down with a short sword.

On cRPG, different story, I get killed on and on, usually from behind as you know how well to do but also from the front. Sometimes I can take one or two out with a long 2h sword but I cannot do as well as I do in Native.

I wonder how is cav in cRPG that different from Native.
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Armpit_Sweat on April 05, 2011, 10:55:20 am
This seems to be a popular thread, so i want to ask something without making a new one:

Does anyone know if the speed required to couch a lance vary, for different lance types?..
Yesterday, it felt as if i need more speed to couch a Great Lance, compared to Light Lance...
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on April 05, 2011, 11:00:18 am
In Europe, we ride for kills, not advance tactics.

speak for yourself please, not everybody like to kill easy targets just like you, some are for the challenge and want to kill some high priority targets rather than that afk guy on spawn
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Spawny on April 05, 2011, 11:19:32 am
Can somebody tell me please? By good I mean can kill Tommy and Oberyn all the time, as opposed to picking up easy kills (though which I think is the true job for cav). :D


Practise. Hours on end, for weeks. Timing is king.

The reason Tommy is such a good cav is his very good timing. He hardly misses thrusts and he can reliably aim for the head, killing in 1 hit most of the time. Add to that he won't get himself into too much trouble.

The main problem with tommy is that it doesn't seem to matter wether he's on horseback or on foot. He'll get the 30/4 or whatever scores anyway.

The most reliable way to kill Tommy I've found are throwing lances. 1 in the horsie and 1 in his back when he's down.
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Vibe on April 05, 2011, 11:19:37 am
speak for yourself please, not everybody like to kill easy targets just like you, some are for the challenge and want to kill some high priority targets rather than that afk guy on spawn

Easy kills do not necessarily mean AFK or "noob". Easy kills are also: unaware, people fighting in melee combat, shield+1h. It doesn't have anything to do with your "high priority targets", mr assassin.

Also, would you risk going 1v1 vs a pro polearmer/2h as a cav rather than easy killing 5 mediocre players, therefore helping the team more?
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on April 05, 2011, 11:40:38 am
Easy kills do not necessarily mean AFK or "noob". Easy kills are also: unaware, people fighting in melee combat, shield+1h. It doesn't have anything to do with your "high priority targets", mr assassin.

Also, would you risk going 1v1 vs a pro polearmer/2h as a cav rather than easy killing 5 mediocre players, therefore helping the team more?

hell yeah, keeping occupied some good 2h or polearmer is better than killing 5 medicore inf, and its so much better to see you killed guys like Bjord or Phyrex ;] and you will have plenty of unaware people to kill while riding around looking for them melee pro's ;]
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Christo on April 05, 2011, 12:28:39 pm
Thanks Christo,Phazey, Daergar, KaMiKaZe_JoE & Tears_of_Destiny for the tips as well though, even if they aren't directed to me they will surely help!

You're welcome.  8-)
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Casimir on April 05, 2011, 04:21:35 pm
Seen plenty of tactical cav charges on EU. Unfortunatly the vast majority of village maps are far to hilly for real cavalry tactics.
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Phazey on April 05, 2011, 06:07:26 pm
Cav tactics for me are often quite simplistic: stick with the infantry!!!

Really, i can't stress this enough. I know it's really cool and fun to ride with a cav formation of 10 guys and charge the enemies... but it's usually a bad idea.

Instead, try this: get the whole team to defend a position (hilltop, village, etc). Get your ranged guys into good positions, get te footmen to defend the ranged and the cav to defend the footmen. Then wait for the enemy infantry to engage your team's footmen and only then charge them from the side or from behind.

Cav in small numbers (less then 10%) is much more effective supporting the melee instead of going off on some charge.

I can't even count the number of times my team lost, even though the ranged guys had discipline and set up a good position, offering a nice area of 'friendly ranged coverage'... shielders and other footmen that patiently wait and protect the ranged guys, thus making sure they get to do what they are good (shooting enemies and denying an area for them) without being rushed by some infantry or cavalry... only to see our cavalry rush out and first chase the enemy cav all the way to their main force and see them get dismounted due to ranged enemy fire, pikes and enemy cav.

I guess the point i'm trying to make is this: unlike the hollywood-style cavalry charges we've all seen in cartoons and movies, cavalry in cRPG is mainly a support class. We cav are great at quickly and efficiently killing unaware or distracted enemy players.
The one way to guarantee they are distracted is to wait untill they are a) within range of your team's archers, throwers and crossbowmen and b) are engaging your team's infantry and locked into melee fights.

Be careful not to run over too many friendly players when doing this. But with a bit of fancy maneuvering, you'll do fine and you'll rack up 5+ important kills every round.

Good cav is patient cav. Good cav supports melee.

In the above scenario i've assumed a map where your team is being defensive. When your team attacks or charges, the same principles apply. Wait until they are engaging your infantry and attack them from the side or from behind.
The one big difference when attacking is that you'll want to make sure their attention is divided between your team's footmen and you. So you can be slightly more agressive. Still, harassing the enemy team as cav doens't have to involve you charging into them. Instead, be a threat by getting behind them but don't get into range until the moment they are fighting your team's footmen.

The biggest and hardest lesson for cav, i think, is restraint. Taking less risks and staying alive. Any cav that's alive in the 'endgame' of a round is often worth it's weight in gold, if you get my meaning.  :)

A last thought: cav formations are not useless at all! But try to use those cav formations to charge in at the right time (when they are engaging your team / when in range of your archers etc).
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on April 05, 2011, 06:32:58 pm
Phazey speaks the truth
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Tomas_of_Miles on April 05, 2011, 06:36:36 pm
Phazey speaks the truth
+1 from someone who noobcharges on horseback too many times.
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: kongxinga on April 06, 2011, 12:57:11 am
But then you come into situations where there is a big cav furball happening off the side away from the main lines. Some of your team cav are engaged. Do you wait by the ground pounders or do you jump in to tip the odds in your favour? After all, whichever team wins the cav skirmish gets total cav superiority afterwards.

Obviously it is better if all stayed with the inf, but if it's 5-4  at the cav furball, it may rapidly become 5-3 then eventually 4-0 if you stayed with the infantry. Joining even late can allow your cav to disengage more or less intact if they were getting overwhelmed. Dedicated anti cavalry cav shine in these messes, while infantry support cav might not want to get involved. No self respecting cav is going to fall for being lured to pikes or archery range so these fights tend to happen off to the sides. Of course if its one of those cramped "LOL" cav/city maps you will not see the cav skirmish.

While ping and timing (but I repeat myself) are important for cav, what I really want is for someone to come up with a guide to maneuvering and positioning so friendly cav can work together properly. I have seen some clannies work as a two man element, most notable to pincer horse archers, to cut off retreats or to deliver one-two blows. Cav only really work well with other cav for the most part due to friendly bumps and differing dispositions. For example, infantry will want to climb ledges and stay in some cramped place. A cavalryman near them is not really contributing and will get picked off first by concentrated force before the enemy assaults the high place. An infantryman is too slow to follow cav to the cav skirmish area, and is just a speedbump there even if he did make it, as his teamates did not follow him.. So much for combined arms. If infantry were willing enough to follow to the clear area, cav could and would offer support. But since most inf just town/building\ladder\stair\corner camp, cav have a tendency to go off into the cav furball. The winner of the furball usually wins the round just by virtue of having more people around. Thus a guide for cav to work together with cav is needed, especially to win the cav skirmish.

This lack of infantry supporting cav and vice versa is not a problem with the mod, but with the maps. If map makers continue to put awkward buildings and terrain for no good reason, infantry cannot resist the temptation to go there. Cav can't follow the inf onto the roofs or into the marshy woods for example , and will die off in the far off skirmish on more reasonable terrain. If we had more maps that even looked the slightest bit like a semi plausible battlefield instead of something from counterstrike, we would have what phzah wrote about, cav supporting inf in the correct manner. With the current line up of maps in most servers that is just not possible.
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Kophka on April 06, 2011, 01:13:41 am
But then you come into situations where there is a big cav furball happening off the side away from the main lines. Some of your team cav are engaged. Do you wait by the ground pounders or do you jump in to tip the odds in your favour? After all, whichever team wins the cav skirmish gets total cav superiority afterwards.

Obviously it is better if all stayed with the inf, but if it's 5-4  at the cav furball, it may rapidly become 5-3 then eventually 4-0 if you stayed with the infantry. Joining even late can allow your cav to disengage more or less intact if they were getting overwhelmed. Dedicated anti cavalry cav shine in these messes, while infantry support cav might not want to get involved. No self respecting cav is going to fall for being lured to pikes or archery range so these fights tend to happen off to the sides. Of course if its one of those cramped "LOL" cav/city maps you will not see the cav skirmish.

While ping and timing (but I repeat myself) are important for cav, what I really want is for someone to come up with a guide to maneuvering and positioning so friendly cav can work together properly. I have seen some clannies work as a two man element, most notable to pincer horse archers, to cut off retreats or to deliver one-two blows. Cav only really work well with other cav for the most part due to friendly bumps and differing dispositions. For example, infantry will want to climb ledges and stay in some cramped place. A cavalryman near them is not really contributing and will get picked off first by concentrated force before the enemy assaults the high place. An infantryman is too slow to follow cav to the cav skirmish area, and is just a speedbump there even if he did make it, as his teamates did not follow him.. So much for combined arms. If infantry were willing enough to follow to the clear area, cav could and would offer support. But since most inf just town/building\ladder\stair\corner camp, cav have a tendency to go off into the cav furball. The winner of the furball usually wins the round just by virtue of having more people around. Thus a guide for cav to work together with cav is needed, especially to win the cav skirmish.

This lack of infantry supporting cav and vice versa is not a problem with the mod, but with the maps. If map makers continue to put awkward buildings and terrain for no good reason, infantry cannot resist the temptation to go there. Cav can't follow the inf onto the roofs or into the marshy woods for example , and will die off in the far off skirmish on more reasonable terrain. If we had more maps that even looked the slightest bit like a semi plausible battlefield instead of something from counterstrike, we would have what phzah wrote about, cav supporting inf in the correct manner. With the current line up of maps in most servers that is just not possible.

+1 for this, I actually spend a lot of time trying to come up with ways for cavalry to support the team, even if it's just keeping 4 or 5 enemy infantry tied up by riding slowly behind them. The fact that most of the "open" (what happened to random plains, dammit?!? ) end up as "Rush to the nearest roof, tower, outcropping before enemy does!" really limits tactical play. For the rest of the maps, I posted up a "Light Cavalry Tactics Primer", that may be of interest to cavalry people. Some of the info may be out dated, and my attempts at paint.net illustrations are as ugly as I remember, but I hope it helps :D.

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php?topic=488.0
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: M_Pully on April 06, 2011, 10:21:59 am
Richbaby, ooooo your playing cavalry well atm. Phaz' advice on playing a support role for the infantry works. I usually hang back when a round starts to see where the enemy are going, last night i was clocking where fallen_Torben was going for instance on battle on ice, and where i'm best to sit and wait.

Tears of destiny says its an idiotic cav who circles a single opponent and goes for the kill, but i differ by 'stupidly' sticking to a guy and taking them down ( i also chase horse archers half the time :-/). From my experience using both a MW warspear and balanced heavy lance i'm confident to kill 1h/shield guys with spear circling, which must peeve them off, ready your attack to go down their throat and if they try an attack put it there. Your looking to bump them slightly and thrust through their head box, your riding a sarranid atm which is even more maneuverable than my economy steppe so i'm sure you can master this alternate tactic.

last night i took a plated charger to the top of a gatehouse, never ever do this because its a bull in a china shop and even though its fun hinders your team. Try using a heavy horse and go archer hunting when the enemy cav arn't around, light horse support inf.
-avoid archery ranges-
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Nemeth on April 06, 2011, 11:01:30 am
Haven't read very thoroughly, just felt like giving a little advice. Never charge a crossbowman with his crossbow ready and aiming at you or in your general direction. If you really have to, deploy some manouvering and hope crossbowman have a bad day.

There is way too many cav that blindly charges me when I'm aiming at them. All it takes is one shot and they are dead unless wearing somewhat heavy armor. Well, if you're lucky, you'll get your horse killed instead of you.
Still, don't charge crossbowmen ^^
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: kongxinga on April 06, 2011, 03:28:42 pm
+1 for this, I actually spend a lot of time trying to come up with ways for cavalry to support the team, even if it's just keeping 4 or 5 enemy infantry tied up by riding slowly behind them. The fact that most of the "open" (what happened to random plains, dammit?!? ) end up as "Rush to the nearest roof, tower, outcropping before enemy does!" really limits tactical play. For the rest of the maps, I posted up a "Light Cavalry Tactics Primer", that may be of interest to cavalry people. Some of the info may be out dated, and my attempts at paint.net illustrations are as ugly as I remember, but I hope it helps :D.

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php?topic=488.0

This is the kind of guide I was referring to. I remember reading it back on the old taleworlds, and liking it very much. How did this survive the board migration? Your guide goes into depth on large cav versus cav engagements, and is possibly the best primer for clans trying to train together, but I am hoping for a smaller, simpler 2 vs 2 guide that might be more workable and simpler for those without a lot of resources for coordination. We would just need guides to the relative positioning to your friendly wingman and the enemy element. I would write one myself if I were any good at it, but hopefully I can come up with something once I get a few more cav fights under my belt.

The random plains allergy is frankly ridiculous. I remember that even in beta people were voting it off for no good reason except wanting to play village. I agree even medium plains may have been too big for even a full default 64 man game, but crpg has up to 120 people. And it is not flat, and there is cover. I guess the expert 2 hander /2 hand polearm duelists will look kind of silly there and lose their precious k/d on plains, thus they removed it.

Phzah does make one good point. Cavalry are often worth more at the endgame compared to their worth at the opening. In chess terms, cav would be interestingly the bishop, instead of the knight. Worth a lot even alone in the endgame, and worth a lot more if both white square and black square bishops survived.

However, I hate the dilemma of staying to screen the inf or going to help out in the cav furball. Splitting your forces is usually bad in crpg, so it is still slightly better to coordinate.
Title: Re: How to be a good Cav?
Post by: Magikarp on April 06, 2011, 03:34:08 pm
Use your range.

Have patience.

Use teamwork.

If you understand those 3 lines and put time and effort into them, you will be good.