cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Hunter_the_Honourable on June 14, 2012, 12:24:36 pm
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what the title says, I expect allot of 2hers to post saying polearms are fine now but when I hit someone with a fully loomed poleaxe with 6ps and they barely flinch....makes no sense to me and the fact that a 1her has more stun confuses me even more.
Im not saying "OMG U NERFED POLEARMS WTF!?!?!? NOT ALLOWED REBUFF THAT NOW!!!!"
Polestun was quite OP and did need a nerf but to take it out completely? thats just making it unfair, now I know allot of you will say polearms are fine and they do enough damage, which is true they do a fair amount of damage but when I hit someone just as I finish my swing my opponent swings back instantly and I don't have a chance to block because my swing hasn't finished -.-
nerfing the stun is and would be fine to me but taking it out and not giving us anything to compensate for it is just unfair IMO
Imagine taking away the stun from 2hers, suddenly 2hers become allot harder to play no?
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Polestagger was a chance to deal more damage. Polearms should get more raw damage. Simple as that.
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tbh Anything would do but just taking away the stun has just made it frustrating for me when I hit people More damage would be good for replacing the stun but then people going to QQ that its OP because it will kill them but I guess thats just how it is
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The ideal longterm situation (in my opinion) would be to give polearms swing animations that aren't terrible:
- Both side-swing directions can easily hit teammates that are nearly behind you, and will readily catch on any nearby obstructions
- There is currently no reason to use the left swing over the right swing - the left swing has lower reach, and is far more likely to glance if you hit early in the animation
- The overhead places anybody near your rear at risk, and is nearly unusable when attacking downhill
- The thrust is fine as-is
The 'dueling' spears - warspear, spear, etc - also need a buff to side-swing damage. Previously the swings were a way to line up a stun, so that you could get a thrust in.
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what the title says, I expect allot of 2hers to post saying polearms are fine now but when I hit someone with a fully loomed poleaxe with 6ps and they barely flinch....makes no sense to me and the fact that a 1her has more stun confuses me even more.
What? There is no difference in stun duration after a hit with any weapon. Its just that 1h are faster.
Polearms were OP, they can have polestagger taken out without anything to compensate. They are perfectly fine.
but when I hit someone just as I finish my swing my opponent swings back instantly and I don't have a chance to block because my swing hasn't finished -.-
Not really sure what you are saying, but it seems to me this only applies to unbalanced weapons, cause you can always interrupt your swing and block with your aforementioned poleaxe. When you hit someone he cannot swing back immediately. If he can it is due to having a very fast weapon and your positioning being wrong. In any case this is not a polearm specific problem and all the other classes would have to deal with this aswell.
Imagine taking away the stun from 2hers, suddenly 2hers become allot harder to play no?
What stun? Only polearms had a specific sort of stun, polestagger to be more precise. Thats why it had to go, it was an unecessary class specific advantage. 2h do not have stun, so you are on a level playing field with 2h now. Life is difficult eh, getting your class balanced with the other ones after being OP.
The ideal longterm situation (in my opinion) would be to give polearms side-swing animations that aren't worthless. Both side-swing directions can easily hit teammates that are nearly behind you, and will readily catch on any nearby obstructions. Also, there is currently much no reason to use the left swing over the right swing - the left swing has lower reach, and is far more likely to glance if you hit early in the animation.
The right swing is an awesome attack, which has very little range reduction compared to other polearm attacks. You pretty much grab it like a 2h when rightswinging. Great about the right swing is also that you can cancel it very far into the animation. These late feints got me many a good hit in. The left swing is shit though.
The overhead is a fucking great attack. The animation exactly follows the center of your screen. It is much easier to aim than the 2h overhead. First thing I noticed when I went polearm after 2h was the ease with which I could split heads with the overhead. You can barely miss it. With the 40+ cut weapons it is mostly 1 to 2 shots to the head. With 130-140 length weapons you can use it in close quarters no problem.
The 'dueling' spears - warspear, spear, etc - also need a buff to side-swing damage. Previously the swings were a way to line up a stun, so that you could get a thrust in.
Agreed, these side swings are quite useless now, rendering the entire group of weapons useless.
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Teeth 2h DO have stun if you havent seen it then are you sure your fighting 2hers? and the Poleaxe is not unbalanced yet people still swing before I finish my swing and when I say that I mean my attack has hit them but before my guy holds his weapon properly im hit my self
What stun? Only polearms had a specific sort of stun, polestagger to be more precise. Thats why it had to go, it was an unecessary class specific advantage. 2h do not have stun, so you are on a level playing field with 2h now. Life is difficult eh, getting your class balanced with the other ones after being OP.
I never said the stun wasn't OP infact I said it was and could of done with the nerf, and if polearms are on the same "playing field" how come 2hers are the better choice? faster, longer stab reach then nearly all polearms and they do get a stun/stagger.
Hardly a level playing field when 2hers have the advantage
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wat
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Lemme guess, played polearms forever?
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Played 2her at the start and have an alt for every class so I am not just basing it on my main character
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2hers are the better choice? faster, longer stab reach then nearly all polearms and they do get a stun/stagger.
Two-handed weapons do not stagger. If you get hit with one, then you will still always have time to block the followup attack.
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perhaps but I rarely see it, perhaps its because I dont play EU 1.
But still I agree with leshmas Idea
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Maybe give long axes and bardiches more damage BUT also make them all unbalanced.
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People were saying it was a bit OP. I never noticed, but that's not the point.
Taking it away was a big move. Why not just reduce the stagger change by a %?
The game is largely balance, and we need fine strokes to tune it I think, not complete changes, respectfully.
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On a normal hit(1h, 2h) strike and strike2 animations are called. They got a duration of about 0.5 to 0.6s depending on hit location. They are the same as in Native and can be checked with the Native MS in the animations.py. On a polearm hit there is a 50% chance that strike3 are called instead and they got a duration of 0.8 to 1s. The code says that polearms with the knockdown flag never call the strike3 animation.
I am assuming the devs simply removed strike3, so polearms will cause the same stagger as any other weapon.
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Taking it away was a big move. Why not just reduce the stagger change by a %?
Because having a random chance of getting two hits in an opponent which only works for one specific class is not at all a desirable game mechanic.
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Polestagger hasn't been removed completely, short and light polearms still have it. Just yesterday I got a couple of double hits and even a triple hit thanks to polestagger. The chance for polestagger does seem to be reduced a lot even on those short and light polearms.
This was on EU_6, incase anyone's thinking I just mixed up the NA with the EU servers.
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Polestagger hasn't been removed on NA yet.
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delete
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Polestagger hasn't been removed completely, short and light polearms still have it. Just yesterday I got a couple of double hits and even a triple hit thanks to polestagger. The chance for polestagger does seem to be reduced a lot even on those short and light polearms.
This was on EU_6, incase anyone's thinking I just mixed up the NA with the EU servers.
hmm well sadly I haven't played rageball of late but if they didnt take it totally out and just reduced it they must of done it quite a bit but its better then taking it out totally.
Thanks saint
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Not sure if EU6 is running new server software really.
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Only EU1,2 and 3 are.
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Give polestagger back to pikes or longspears. You already took away are spin stabs and made us 100% useless in situations where you are solo, and the loss of polestagger made us slightly less useful in team situations. Give us one or the other please :'(
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I got killed by a jumping spin stab just this morning.
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full 360° spin stabs are not possible anymore, it wasn´t a real jumping spin stab then ;)
Well, it was a 180° jumping spin stab. You turn 180 on the ground, and the other 180 while stabbing in the air. Same effect. :)
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Give polestagger back to pikes or longspears. You already took away are spin stabs and made us 100% useless in situations where you are solo, and the loss of polestagger made us slightly less useful in team situations. Give us one or the other please :'(
You mean your 300 length weapon that is meant to kill horses is not super effective in all situations?
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You call a 1 directional attack at 250 reach super effective? I didn't know blocking down was that hard.
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You call a 1 directional attack at 250 reach super effective? I didn't know blocking down was that hard.
It's harder then spinning around the block for a dick slap kill.
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You call a 1 directional attack at 250 reach super effective? I didn't know blocking down was that hard.
I sensed sarcasm with egan's post...i think that IS his point...is that it shouldn't be super effective in all situations, but he's saying some of you pike/long spear users think that it should be.
If stuck in a 1v1 you should be forced to manually block every swing if a 1h/shield is up in your grill (or pull out your side arm). Pikemen are a support class if you don't carry a side arm.
Being able to stab someone when they are two or three times their weapon length away, is pretty big.
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As a pike/longspear user myself, I never used spinstab. I don't think they're underpowered insofar as they are not treated as Solo weapons.
I think some of the heavier polearm weapons [Poleaxes mainly] need some form of compensation ONLY because the damage they deal is basically the same as the heavier 2h swords, except the 2H swords have superior animations and a more reliable weapon reach. The only real advantage the polearms have is their ability to break shields more easily.
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As a pike/longspear user myself, I never used spinstab. I don't think they're underpowered insofar as they are not treated as Solo weapons.
I think some of the heavier polearm weapons [Poleaxes mainly] need some form of compensation ONLY because the damage they deal is basically the same as the heavier 2h swords, except the 2H swords have superior animations and a more reliable weapon reach. The only real advantage the polearms have is their ability to break shields more easily.
and not being unbalanced...
Want them to do 60p? Not sure I see the need.
Apples, oranges, fekkin fruit salad.
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Apples, oranges, fekkin fruit salad.
Hahaha ^^^
Yeah warspear is still rad. I've heard through the grapevine they're gonna get a little blunt damage boost, and hoplites might not have a speed penalty, or at least not as drastic. Damage penalty still makes sense since you're using the force of one arm, but we'll see.
6 ps poleaxe and they 'barely even flinch', you're doing it wrong though m8
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They should make polearms immune to crushthrough.
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Noob question : Can you hit-slash with a polearm ?
I think the answer is yes.
Real question : Is it harder than with a sword, may it be 1h or 2h ?
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Pike/longspearman can just bring a 1h as a secondary weapon, i dont think pikes and longspears should be used in 1v1 situations and having a 1h sidearm with pike looks cool IMO :)
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Noob question : Can you hit-slash with a polearm ?
I think the answer is yes.
Real question : Is it harder than with a sword, may it be 1h or 2h ?
Hilt slashes can be done with just about everything. If your weapon as side swings, hiltslashing is possible.
It's even more funky with polearms, I remember getting the last kill on a map by hiltslashing someone with a Great Long Axe and in the freeze screen, my GLA wasn't even touching the guy yet and yet he was already dead, I still have this screenshot somewhere on my hard drive, I'll have to search for it.
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Pike/longspearman can just bring a 1h as a secondary weapon, i dont think pikes and longspears should be used in 1v1 situations and having a 1h sidearm with pike looks cool IMO :)
They can use quarter staff as sidearm. It's a shame iron staff is 2 slot, if it was 1 slot like other staffs they could use it and iron staff is pretty awesome weapon.
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Hilt slashes can be done with just about everything. If your weapon as side swings, hiltslashing is possible.
Except 1h right swing, since it will glance if your target is even slightly to the right of center. 2H side swings can deliver full damage while the weapon is still behind your shoulder. I think the "hiltslash" mechanic is pretty silly all around.
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Except 1h right swing, since it will glance if your target is even slightly to the right of center. 2H side swings can deliver full damage while the weapon is still behind your shoulder. I think the "hiltslash" mechanic is pretty silly all around.
Just spam the 1h's left to right, enjoy infinite hiltslashing while you circle the guy if you're quick enough, not to mention that it's aimed straight at the face.
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I am using poles atm with my main and doing fine. Nothing to buff there.
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I am using poles atm with my main and doing fine. Nothing to buff there.
Knowing you, I just say:
You know how to play. Thats why.
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Nerfing 2h would be a nice pole-compensation :)
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Enough melee nerfs.
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Buff then.
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remove range
fucking gimmicky mechanic
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How to balance this game:
1. Remove anything anyone complains about. It is all OP anyway.
2. Remove block. No one should have to block anyway to survive a hit. Its an unfair advantage that some know how to block and others don't. Blocking is OP.
3. Remove all differences in weapons. No more stun. No more range. No more differences in swings. No ability to hit your own teammates because u are too slow to be able to realize ur weapon is 20 foot long. All weapons should be 5 feet, do 1 point of damage, and never ever be able to hit anyone but an enemy.
4. Hmmm what am I forgetting? We should have sack lunches and picnic blankets in the game too. Its gonna get pretty tiresome listening to all the "reasonable" complaints people lodge for nerfs AND playing without any differences in weapons.
5. No one should ever have a better weapon or skill than anyone else, which cRpg was originally designed to allow... so it completely needs a revamp of the characer system. Remove all leveling and skill points. Make everyone have equal access to the same gear and weapons and skills from day one.
6. Remove spin stab. Who should be able to ever play a game and have that much fun.... you can just see them smiling as they do that... so it must, absolutely be removed from the game because too many people just don't understand how to down block when that guy jumps and spins...
Isn't war supposed to be fair?