cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Zisa on June 12, 2012, 04:58:22 am
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Why?
Let's review..
Yes, we need 30 more goddam throwers, 20 more xbows and 10 more archers per game, even if they are half assed. That's sarcasm for you slow thinkers.
How people play a thrower hybrid:
like fucking pansies.
-break contact to go pick up a throwing weapon and hope for a BS head shot.
-stand in a line 5 feet away from the other enemy line throwing shit at each other.
Crossbow hybrids...
hide somewhere, say, the top of a ruins.
shoot. bend over, hide , repeat.
Be last alive and hope for valour.
wear heavy armor for best results.
Yer too chicken to be called names as an archer, and carrying that extra useless melee weapon gives the illusion you'll do something useful.
Archer hybrids
wtf who cares, be an archer or not.
heavy armored archer + melee weapon (or worse, 1hander and shield)
Grow a pair dammit, BE AN ARCHER.
Use goddam team work instead of trying to make these all in one builds. Fuck.
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We need 40 more Kuyak my old friend DGS bitches instead?
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We need 40 more Kuyak my old friend DGS bitches instead?
Hyperbole.. well done. Not.
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Not sure if trolling or serious...
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Hybrids were part of old, fun yet unbalanced cRPG. Making hybrids better is a good way to merge current cRPG with an old, pre-upkeep cRPG.
Also, recent changes Harald did are incentive for most active players to never retire their mains again.
Now you can:
1) farm gold and looms on alts
2) play strat successfully even if you're level 31+
Why would anyone retire if they don't need to? Only if they get bored playing their mains (and they have to play them to be good in strat). They'll get bored because their mains are pure builds. That's why we should make hybrids better so people don't get bored that easily while playing their level 31+ mains.
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you forgot cav/infantry hybrids
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Zisa you are kind of a hypocrite here considering how often I've seen you in robes with flamberge, trying some kind of S key backpeddling combat. One of the reasons I have throwing is to force engagement with S key types, they start dancing backwards I pull back too and throw at them, that gets them to come back into range real fast.
The biggest problem on battle servers is cav, and more xbows/throwers are appearing to counter them cuz they can actually reach out and damage them, not just have to wait for them to attack.
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Zisa you are kind of a hypocrite here considering how often I've seen you in robes with flamberge, trying some kind of S key backpeddling combat. One of the reasons I have throwing is to force engagement with S key types, they start dancing backwards I pull back too and throw at them, that gets them to come back into range real fast.
The biggest problem on battle servers is cav, and more xbows/throwers are appearing to counter them cuz they can actually reach out and damage them, not just have to wait for them to attack.
people whine about hybrid throwers and others but forget how hard their sword hits, how fast they can swing their sword and how they can footwork better with more ath compared to hybrids
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Indeed. If there is anything that DOES not need a buff, its the 2handed class! In comparison to any other class they are more than stable and had less changes than anyone else. And yes that's true, they're probably even a bit stronger than the 2h in native. Not saying that they should be nerfed in any way, but IF something has to be nerfed, it is not any ranged class. :P
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Hybrids are one of the few reasons i still play this game.
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to hander has had a significant nerf to the stab, no more lol stabbing, this makes polearms alot more powerfull in comparison again. leshma your point is just wel.. meh, imo the difference between a lvl 31 or a hardcapped 35/36 is not that huge, and this new system brought to crpg what it needed: more flexibility for players to ''effectivly play the game reward wise'' this game is still a big grind materialistic wise, and atleast they are going in the right direction to making it less retarded. IF nerf ? u kidding right? common have u even thought before posting this? imo hybrid builds are already very viable in teamplay, prob with crpg is the pub action just dousnt seem to evolve, its like the community has stagnated, i remember good times with shield wall advances and players working together, now most of the time i just see tiny groups , and individuals scattered across the battle field in one big chaotic clusterfuck. il stop here before this becaumes a 2page qq post
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to hander has had a significant nerf to the stab, no more lol stabbing, this makes polearms alot more powerfull in comparison again.
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better use words gurni, since now youre being a pompus cunt, tell me why you think this is untrue then.
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Zisa you are kind of a hypocrite here considering how often I've seen you in robes with flamberge, trying some kind of S key backpeddling combat. One of the reasons I have throwing is to force engagement with S key types, they start dancing backwards I pull back too and throw at them, that gets them to come back into range real fast.
The biggest problem on battle servers is cav, and more xbows/throwers are appearing to counter them cuz they can actually reach out and damage them, not just have to wait for them to attack.
lol?
Struck a nerve did I?
Anytime you want to run around in a pilgrim disguise carrying a flamberge let me know, I'll see how good you do.
Anyone who lets you change weapons without getting hit is either a slow build or an idiot, or you've been really lucky, so lucky you haven't realized how risky it is. I've seen yer ilk do exactly as you described and get hit for their trouble.
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better use words gurni, since now youre being a pompus cunt, tell me why you think this is untrue then.
well...you know polearms got the same nerf...and they got polestagger removed
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people whine about hybrid throwers and others but forget how hard their sword hits, how fast they can swing their sword and how they can footwork better with more ath compared to hybrids
Or how hard they can hit with more PS. Which has always been more useful then WM.
Since there is supposed to be an adjustment to wpf curves coming perhaps WM will become more useful, or only more useful to hybrids.
Hybrid throwers blow, not because of there inherent nature of half assed at two things, but entirely because of how people play them, as outlined in post 1.
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Archer hybrids
wtf who cares, be an archer or not.
heavy armored archer + melee weapon (or worse, 1hander and shield)
Grow a pair dammit, BE AN ARCHER.
I'm play this game since Jan 2011 and if i'm not be bored because of i have archer hybrid build. When i bored take a lance and horse play like horse lancer or take heavy armor and take my two hand sword play like melee.
Rigidity is bad for games. Because i play this game for leave distress. More limits = more boring.
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well...you know polearms got the same nerf...and they got polestagger removed
howcome i can see polearms jump spin stabbing the wholetime then ? might be theyr timing or maybe now the pole animation is beneficial to the arc nerf , atleast the jump stabbers dont seem affected by it
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Hybrids were part of old, fun yet unbalanced cRPG. Making hybrids better is a good way to merge current cRPG with an old, pre-upkeep cRPG.
Also, recent changes Harald did are incentive for most active players to never retire their mains again.
Now you can:
1) farm gold and looms on alts
2) play strat successfully even if you're level 31+
Why would anyone retire if they don't need to? Only if they get bored playing their mains (and they have to play them to be good in strat). They'll get bored because their mains are pure builds. That's why we should make hybrids better so people don't get bored that easily while playing their level 31+ mains.
You don't recall the glory days of old cRPG with tincans+xbows. Oh, RIGHT, that was supposed to have changed, but I see enough of Heavy Armor + DGS + xbow now.
Want to know my hybrid thrower, or hybrid archer? - take PS, not WM.
Since you don't really 'need' more then 1 wpf.
Why should they be 'better' if people are bored? If you are bored challenge yourself, why make it easy, which is what a buff to hybrids is all about. Oh, I see, you think making everybody's 'main' a hybrid will stave off boredom so they continually play their lvl 31+ character, because they have to.. for strat.
Level: 34
Strength: 15
Agility: 27
Skill to attr: 6
Power Strike: 5
Athletics: 9
Weapon Master: 9
Two Handed: 131
Crossbow: 152
using cRPG NewGen calc (http://alpha-lider19.ru/MB)
This has 6 skill points left over...
Also, the calculator is great.
I don't see why you should buff this.
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better use words gurni, since now youre being a pompus cunt, tell me why you think this is untrue then.
And while the 2H stab increase the range by a lot, the polearm stab do not. Even though the 2H stab fail a lot more up close than before, they can at least be used for the range-game most of the time, and you have some good swings to rely on when the opponent closes in. Polestab adds piss length (without shield), still bounces up close if you don't spin, and a lot of the polearms have 2 or even 1 attacking direction where the thrust is the most important attack by far. Not being able to use the stab effectively with long awlpike/english bill/swiss halberd/ashwood pike etc. is a massive nerf to polearms. Hoplites also took quite a heavy nerf with the removal of the spin-stab.
With two-handers you always have 3 other great directions to attack, not so much with many of the polearms, so I can't really understand why you could say that this buffed polearms compared to 2H. I would rather say the complete opposite.
Pikes does work well still, so does poleaxes, but those that were considered jack of both trades (length and dueling ability) in the middle, the ones I already mentioned with 2 directions (^) are pretty much redundant if they don't fix stabs bouncing up close with a major thrust-stun to boot. The overhead is slow enough to get you spammed, the range on the thrust is not long enough to be a pure supporter like with the pikes and the thrust will bounce a lot if they close the distance.
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And while the 2H stab increase the range by a lot, the polearm stab do not. Even though the 2H stab fail a lot more up close than before, they can at least be used for the range-game most of the time, and you have some good swings to rely on when the opponent closes in. Polestab adds piss length (without shield), still bounces up close if you don't spin, and a lot of the polearms have 2 or even 1 attacking direction where the thrust is the most important attack by far. Not being able to use the stab effectively with long awlpike/english bill/swiss halberd/ashwood pike etc. is a massive nerf to polearms. Hoplites also took quite a heavy nerf with the removal of the spin-stab.
With two-handers you always have 3 other great directions to attack, not so much with many of the polearms, so I can't really understand why you could say that this buffed polearms compared to 2H. I would rather say the complete opposite.
Pikes does work well still, so does poleaxes, but those that were considered jack of both trades (length and dueling ability) in the middle, the ones I already mentioned with 2 directions (^) are pretty much redundant if they don't fix stabs bouncing up close with a major thrust-stun to boot. The overhead is slow enough to get you spammed, the range on the thrust is not long enough to be a pure supporter like with the pikes and the thrust will bounce a lot if they close the distance.
Sorry, us NA pukes don't have these wonderful new mechanic nerfs, so really can not compare. Unless they changed it for today.
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This has 6 skill points left over...
Also, the calculator is great.
I don't see why you should buff this.
Level: 34
Strength: 15
Agility: 27
Skill to attr: 6
Power Strike: 5
Athletics: 9
Weapon Master: 9
Two Handed: 131
Crossbow: 152
using cRPG NewGen calc (http://alpha-lider19.ru/MB)
You fucking blind?
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Anyone who lets you change weapons without getting hit is either a slow build or an idiot, or you've been really lucky, so lucky you haven't realized how risky it is. I've seen yer ilk do exactly as you described and get hit for their trouble.
You are aware X is pretty fucking instant and shit, right? And that most throwers will use their throwing weapons in melee mode for meleeing.
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Level: 34
Strength: 15
Agility: 27
Skill to attr: 6
Power Strike: 5
Athletics: 9
Weapon Master: 9
Two Handed: 131
Crossbow: 152
using cRPG NewGen calc (http://alpha-lider19.ru/MB)
You fucking blind?
The point is your gerbil like attention span and inability to follow a train of thought, let alone a thread. Since it was a reply re: 31+ characters it was appropriate.
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lol?
Struck a nerve did I?
Anytime you want to run around in a pilgrim disguise carrying a flamberge let me know, I'll see how good you do.
Anyone who lets you change weapons without getting hit is either a slow build or an idiot, or you've been really lucky, so lucky you haven't realized how risky it is. I've seen yer ilk do exactly as you described and get hit for their trouble.
a nerve? no. Just saying you complain about someones stepping back to throw while your own playstyle is something that encourages people to do it.
I don't need to change weps if I don't have time, I just press X and switch my heavy throwing axes to melee mode. Not as good as my regular 1h, but 36 cut dmg still hits hard (there's a thrower trick I just told you, you make a QQ thread and get free gameplay tips :) ).
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You are aware X is pretty fucking instant and shit, right? And that most throwers will use their throwing weapons in melee mode for meleeing.
I am aware there is a delay with changing mode of weapon. And I've caught /(and been caught as a thrower) many a thrower before it kicks in - any thrower can relate. Stop scatter firing your pathetic responses and grasping for straws - I don't care about the price of tea in china either.
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prob with crpg is the pub action just dousnt seem to evolve, its like the community has stagnated, i remember good times with shield wall advances and players working together, now most of the time i just see tiny groups , and individuals scattered across the battle field in one big chaotic clusterfuck. il stop here before this becaumes a 2page qq post
two issues:
1) Cav is overpowered, dominates and has no downside. It's supposed to be balanced by cost but that no longer works on crpg when people can easily fund cav gens by selling loompoint for 650k (note how cav is still rare in strategus, where cost still matters). It's no longer very shocking to see 30-50 mounted players on battle servers.
2) Strategus currently is not very popular. When people are more involved with strategus, clans consolidate and get more organized, which is reflected in public servers you see them grouping together and leading pub teams. Strategus 3 fizzled quickly and is just coasting now with 2 super alliances while devs slowly work on major updates to eventually wipe/restart it.
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a nerve? no. Just saying you complain about someones stepping back to throw while your own playstyle is something that encourages people to do it.
I don't need to change weps if I don't have time, I just press X and switch my heavy throwing axes to melee mode. Not as good as my regular 1h, but 36 cut dmg still hits hard (there's a thrower trick I just told you, you make a QQ thread and get free gameplay tips :) ).
I've been throwing since before you were a zygote, perhaps you should ask Chucky about it, because I know he remembers.
If you change weapons against Zisa (main) with a flamberge you are probably going to eat a flamberge.
The problem with your 'throw first' style is it sucks. Not as a single poor decision but as a habit hybrid throwers will throw into a melee - easily causing more problems (for team mates) and being useless, as opposed to drawing melee weapon and actually trying to help. But carry on thinking it's a great playstyle - I usually prefer to let people figure stuff out for themselves, but you need to know.
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You don't recall the glory days of old cRPG with tincans+xbows.
I do, it was fun and awesome, why are you hating? The old snipercrossbow which actually killed a lot of people in one hit was super fun, as were the shotgunning match endings. Better then watching people run after kiting archers which now can't melee and crap.
And that crossbowman with the funny face which would pull a long voulge which was then fun and swingable sideways from hammerspace. Eh.
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lol I been doing hyrbid 1h/shield thrower for like 12-13 gens now, I think I know a thing or two about it.
I consider myself melee first also, wear medium-heavy armour (around 60 body, 50 head), have 8 power strike. I like hybrid cuz I have lots of tactical options with the extra 10-30 yard range by carrying 2 axe stacks, which is fun and useful to augment my killing. I rarely get caught by melee mid throw, when I do its cuz I really messed up.
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Hybrid --> carrying more weapons --->> more repair and more weight in the end, also being less proficient in a sole competence.
Seriously, what is your problem with hybrids? Nothing comes without a cost, and I must say the cost is neither low or high.
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I do, it was fun and awesome, why are you hating? The old snipercrossbow which actually killed a lot of people in one hit was super fun, as were the shotgunning match endings. Better then watching people run after kiting archers which now can't melee and crap.
And that crossbowman with the funny face which would pull a long voulge which was then fun and swingable sideways from hammerspace. Eh.
Yes, delightful - watching a team of tin cans hiding and taking potshots at each other. I'd rather get killed by Aholeus (sic) and his right swing only bardiche, or Akame's loony toons axe.
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not my fault you want to run around in a robe and are mad that you get 1 shotted so easy. 48cut heavy throwing axes really rip thru cloth armour.
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Hybrid --> carrying more weapons --->> more repair and more weight in the end, also being less proficient in a sole competence.
Seriously, what is your problem with hybrids? Nothing comes without a cost, and I must say the cost is neither low or high.
I have a problem with people who think they need a buff to be on par with pure builds. Simple concept really.
Also, how shittily they play, then expect a buff, when the only real buff they need is a playstyle INT buff.
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I have a problem with people who think they need a buff to be on par with pure builds. Simple concept really.
Also, how shittily they play, then expect a buff, when the only real buff they need is a playstyle INT buff.
:?
Who said buff? Are you trolling?
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not my fault you want to run around in a robe and are mad that you get 1 shotted so easy. 48cut heavy throwing axes really rip thru cloth armour.
Don't be fucking stupid, I haven't played that character (lately) but for two hours when the patch came out. Or assume I get mad when killed by range.
Stop being a twat or I'll slap you silly.
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:?
Who said buff? Are you trolling?
Scroll down and look at the two buff hybrid threads?
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Scroll down and look at the two buff hybrid threads?
So? Does that mean we should nerf hybrids instead? Why can't we leave the thing as it is, or change it (hybrids and hoplites. make it... different).
2 threads are by Leshma by the way.
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So? Does that mean we should nerf hybrids instead? Why can't we leave the thing as it is, or change it (hybrids and hoplites. make it... different).
2 threads are by Leshma by the way.
Title of thread is "Don't buff hybrids".
Is further clarification necessary?
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Yes, delightful - watching a team of tin cans hiding and taking potshots at each other.
It was!
And the rabid chinese with 600 ping, blackarmour and lolaxe spam. Epic.
On a more serious note, watching hiding tincans shotgun each other with snipercrossbows was significantly more fun then watching kiting archers and crap round endings.
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I would like to play a hybrid but I see them as weak.
I might not totally agree that hybrids dont need a buff but im glad my +1 made the op visible again (with no effort required to see it).
Made me lol too, specially the thrower/xbow synopsis.
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You seem really upset, tell us more.
I only ever played hybrids two years ago and it was pretty fun, nowadays I only play dedicated builds. I enjoy seeing hybrids because otherwise I think if more people played like me, the game would become boring and elitistic.
So with that said: Fuck Zisa.
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You seem really upset, tell us more.
I only ever played hybrids two years ago and it was pretty fun, nowadays I only play dedicated builds. I enjoy seeing hybrids because otherwise I think if more people played like me, the game would become boring and elitistic.
So with that said: Fuck Zisa.
You totally missed the point. Dipshit.
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I agree totally. Hybrids DO NOT need a buff.
In fact they should rework WPF so that hybrids get nerfed.
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zisa's just super mad because chucky & NH have gotten like 59083590385 thrower groupies on NA server and she cant wear her nasty cum stained robes anymore. Now that shes wearing heavy armor shes actually slower and EASIER to hit, and thus sucking even more.
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zisa's just super mad because chucky & NH have gotten like 59083590385 thrower groupies on NA server and she cant wear her nasty cum stained robes anymore. Now that shes wearing heavy armor shes actually slower and EASIER to hit, and thus sucking even more.
It's funny because the effective people that are excellent hybrids realize there is no need for a buff, yet scrubs like you are all a twitter about how great you SHOULD be. It's extra funny as it is clear who got all butthurt about my assessment of HOW people play hybrids.
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It's pretty hilarious to see one person left alive and 5 throwing weapons get chucked and 2 land for the murder shot (as 3 go whizzing by). I like that more people are throwing nowadays (even though they are the bane of my cav lancer), I personally think throwing hybrids are more useful than pure throwers, but to each his own.
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I have a horse thief alt ... pole, throw, ride, it is very very fun. I do not play throwers when they reach critical mass on the server.